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Malt Barley Powder + Mushroom Powder = Chitosan?

madmax6

New member
Hi everyone,


If I mix:
26ml/18g Bat Guano
4.4g Potassium Sulfate
36ml/23g Malt Barley Powder
18ml Mushroom Powder
4 liters pure distilled water


And then have a constant vortex and airation for 24 hours, will I have a kick ass plant feed with lots of Chitosan?
 

madmax6

New member
Thanks
I does say "fermentation process in a highly controlled and standardized production method"
I wonder what this means, does it need an exact temperature?
How is it done?
 

Rico Swazi

Active member
look up solid state fermentation and submerged substrate fermentation processes and see which one you might be able to perform


good luck and have fun






Cultivation conditions

For fungal cultivation, 1 ml spore suspension (107 spores ml–1), prepared from a 7‐d‐old slant, was inoculated into 100 ml PDB in a 250‐ml Erlenmeyer flask. The cultures were incubated at 30 °C, 180 rev min–1 for 15–21 d. For yeast cultivation, 1 ml yeast cell suspension (107 cells ml–1), prepared from a 7‐d‐old slant, was inoculated into 100 ml YMB in a 250‐ml Erlenmeyer flask. The cultures were incubated at 30 °C, 180 rev min–1 for 6 d. Fermentation broth from each culture was sampled to monitor growth. Fungal dry weights were determined by filtration (GF/C glass microfibre; Whatman, Maidstone, UK), washing twice with distilled water and drying the biomass pellet at 85 °C to constant weight. All experiments were carried out in triplicate and the results are expressed as mean ± S.D.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1472-765X.2002.01118.x
 

madmax6

New member
OK, looks like I've got some figuring out to do.


In the mean time, what if just feed my liquid mix above to the soil, will I get any Chitosan?
 

Rico Swazi

Active member
a better question might be to ask how will you know you have been successful ? Do you have any way of testing the result? microscope? chemistry?



also curious how you came up with the liquid mix ingredients/proportions
 

madmax6

New member
After looking at some PPM ratios here, I decided to with the equivalent PPM ratio of 60N 60P 100K, and I took a guess at the other 15 elements also.
The elemental weights are:
N = 14
P = 30.9
K = 39
This gives an elemental weight ratio of 22N 48P 100K.


Then I found this:
https://mohthobroni.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/results-of-analyses-of-bat-guano1.pdf


And I thought that Bat Guano is pretty much complete apart from the Potassium.


My Bat Guano is 3%N 10%P2O3 1%K2O


This gives an equivalent elemental weight percentage of 3N 4.6P 0.83K


Potassium Sulfate has an equivalent Potassium elemental weight percentage of 39K


So if I use a Bat Guano : Potassium Sulfate weight ratio of 10.43:2.56
This gives 31N 48P 108K


Which isn't too far off.


The Bat Guano tub recommends 14g/20ml per 3 litres of water
 

madmax6

New member
I've got no way of checking how much Chitosan is in the soil, seems like a bit of a hastle/costly to send off samples.


The other malt barley amount I got from skimming differnt forums. The mushroom powder amount is just a guess
 

Rico Swazi

Active member
very good thank you.


the waste generated by chitin production from crustaceans is not sustainable(IMO) and is why any attempt at a more eco friendly option has my vote
(black soldier fly and other insects for example)


hopefully your thread gets the wheels spinning and a simpler method becomes a reality
 

J-Icky

Active member
High N bat guano is supposed to be loaded with either chitin or chitosan (can’t remember which). It’s from the bats that produce it being insect eating bats and with the amount of insects they eat it’s one of the most abundant natural sources for either chitin or chitosan.
A quick goodie search will yield plants of studies and their results and will also tell you which form it is.
 

madmax6

New member
So an update.
I found the mix to be lacking in Nitrogen,so I've added some insect frass which is 3N 2P 3K.


The mix is curently 4 liters of distilled water and:
40g Bat guano
40g Insect frass
80g Malt barley powder
7.2g Potassium Sulphate
This is enough for two 25 gallon pots, each with a 315 CMH light, once a week.


The elemental ratios then are:
N = 52
P = 54
K = 100
S = 37
Ca = 80
Mg = 14
Si = 81
Na = 6
Fe = 11


Bat guano and insect frass both have Chitin anyway, so no need for the mushroom powder.


The plants have exploded with pre flowers and amazing growth :)
 

Rico Swazi

Active member
Sounds like you hit the sweet spot and good to hear your plants are doing well.
I like the idea of chitin from insect frass but the price excludes me.


I had to go with a less expensive frass harvesting method
open source and no patents pending if you can believe that



picture.php
 
Last edited:

growshopfrank

Well-known member
Veteran
Sounds like you hit the sweet spot and good to hear your plants are doing well.
I like the idea of chitin from insect frass but the price excludes me.


I had to go with a less expensive frass harvesting method
open source and no patents pending if you can believe that



View Image


Thanks for some inspiration the fish flies around here are horrendous i bet that i can harvest at least a LB (dry)every day for about a month per year it would be good to get some benefit from the stinking things.
 

madmax6

New member
I'm adding 2.7 grams of epsom salt to the above also, seems to have improved the colour.


I'm still working it out, but I'm thinking 3 liters every 6 days with the above mix per 25 gallon pot under a 315
 

Sunshineinabag

Active member
Triplicate!

Triplicate!

look up solid state fermentation and submerged substrate fermentation processes and see which one you might be able to perform


good luck and have fun






Cultivation conditions

For fungal cultivation, 1 ml spore suspension (107 spores ml–1), prepared from a 7‐d‐old slant, was inoculated into 100 ml PDB in a 250‐ml Erlenmeyer flask. The cultures were incubated at 30 °C, 180 rev min–1 for 15–21 d. For yeast cultivation, 1 ml yeast cell suspension (107 cells ml–1), prepared from a 7‐d‐old slant, was inoculated into 100 ml YMB in a 250‐ml Erlenmeyer flask. The cultures were incubated at 30 °C, 180 rev min–1 for 6 d. Fermentation broth from each culture was sampled to monitor growth. Fungal dry weights were determined by filtration (GF/C glass microfibre; Whatman, Maidstone, UK), washing twice with distilled water and drying the biomass pellet at 85 °C to constant weight. All experiments were carried out in triplicate and the results are expressed as mean ± S.D.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1472-765X.2002.01118.x
Very nice



Love the triplicate mention
 

madmax6

New member
So currently I'm giving them one feeding a week. They get a gallon every two days of ether pure water, or the feed mix.


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]40g Bat guano[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 40g Insect frass
80g Malt barley powder
7.2g Potassium Sulphate
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2.7g Epsom salt[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm mixing and aerating for about 36 hours, which is letting it froth up a lot.
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Does any one know what difference it would make just to do it for 24 hours, or just before it froths up?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cheers
[/FONT]

p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 115%; }
p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 115%; }
 

madmax6

New member
Just to give an update,


It seems once a week is not really enough, the flowers weren't bulking up, so now I'm back to twice a week feeding, which is what I pretty much what I was doing before.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
very good thank you.


the waste generated by chitin production from crustaceans is not sustainable(IMO) and is why any attempt at a more eco friendly option has my vote
(black soldier fly and other insects for example)


hopefully your thread gets the wheels spinning and a simpler method becomes a reality

Insect frass is very effective as a replacememt
 

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