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Legalization in Canada, how are things there?

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Medical users won in court, the government is dragging their balls around legalizing at a snails pace.
 

abl12

Member
Rec market going crazy, lots of dispensaries creepin in from the west coast and entering the east coast. Ive always found that torontonians are pretty tolerant of the herb. Ive never been stopped by the boys in blue, in general i have found toronto police to be nice. Good herb is hard to come by tho, no pure sativas just the regular hybrid stuff.
 

rangergord

Active member
As I follow the situation here in Canada, things are slowly changing and moving in a more positive direction. Watch the UN conference in April where UN signatories to the War on Drugs may possibly vote to repeal prohibition in favor of Decriminalization, Legalization, harm reduction and addiction treatment instead.
It is likely that Trudeau will use such action as a mandate to further legalize in Canada. Federal ministers of departments have been given the legalization mandate to study for now and I am confident that legislation will begin to be rolled out in time. For those of us who have been waiting decades for change it cannot come fast enough. We are unsure about whether we will retain the right to grow our own personal supply, under legalization. This is critical IMO, any regime which prohibits this basic right is not really legalization and will ultimately fail.
 

abl12

Member
yeah the right to grow ones own must be respected. Health canada requirements, especially when cannabis is postulated as a "medical drug" also make legalization more complicated. Can you imagine we have to also implement new labeling laws especially when dealing with edibles, I can already see the capitalist hounds waiting for race to go off. Apparantly previous CEO of tweed (public ontario based medical cannabis company) was part of liberal goverment etc.
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
Will this happen here?

they are sure gonna try....yeehaw..some places here in cali have already banned growing..my old stomping grounds national city has already banned any kind of growing by anyone...now all they do is herd you to the nearest dispensary/store when setup
 

Phases

Member
So many people falling for the Trudeau ruse.

Granted, I'll eat my hat if he actually does legalize, but right now I would give 10-1 it's just a vote ploy.

This whole thread would make more sense in the Canadian forum....

It is looking like you may be eating your hat :tiphat:

I am sure if Canada does go fully legal they won't let anyone grow. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

It's about time. That's all I can say - how can the U.S keep weed as a schedule 1 drug when just up over the border Canada has made weed legal for recreational use. Crazyness
 

Tynehead Tom

Well-known member
if they legalize and don't allow generous at home growing for recreation and medical personal use...... it ain't good enough
The solution is simple, and NOTHING has to change. Boycott corporate grown, government taxed weed and support the already existing culture of cannabis that has been here for several generations now.
doesn't matter what Canada's politicians do or say, we are are here, have been since the first draft dodgers arrived with their seeds in the british Columbia coast and gulf islands. And we ain't fuggen going anywhere.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It is looking like you may be eating your hat :tiphat:

I am sure if Canada does go fully legal they won't let anyone grow. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

It's about time. That's all I can say - how can the U.S keep weed as a schedule 1 drug when just up over the border Canada has made weed legal for recreational use. Crazyness

Good I don't wear I hat ;)


Always interesting to see older posts and older views. Bit more optimistic today but with the recent cockslap to the MMAR injunction, among other things, I don't think legalization will be all peaches and cream.


I'm more with Tyne/you's. They're heading towards mass production, all we can do is standout and grow the different. Whether they make allowances for small time producers or not, there will always be someone who doesn't want to jump through their hoops or who is willing to pay for the unique.
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
we here in cali have plenty of weed for you Canadians....lol...sucks to be you ....its gonna get ugly in cali soon too tho...yeehaw
 

Tynehead Tom

Well-known member
we here in cali have plenty of weed for you Canadians....lol...sucks to be you ....its gonna get ugly in cali soon too tho...yeehaw





my friend, BC has been keeping up with cali this whole time, just not under the open sun as much as California obviously.
It's truly a shame that western Canada, where Canada's cannabis growing culture originates, isn't leading the way. Another assclown from backwards Ontario a the helm of another cash cow profile.
They will probably favour centering the business end back east as well.
If BC's premier was even thinking with 1/2 an eye on the ball, she would be moving to make cannabis a legitimate business in BC ASAP.
instead she's chasing jobs that would do nothing but ensure mass immigration to western Canada to fill said jobs. She's chasing LNG and oil when Canada just signed on to the eradication of fossil fuels by 2050.


The next step is so ridiculously simple, make cannabis just like beer and wine, everyone's happy. win win all around.
Allowing every day regular joe entrepreneurs to create businesses, create jobs and create a thriving industry we can call our own.


it should be that simple.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
With them in spirit at least.


As we flood the east and north, so does Cali. You're talking unlimited perpetual flower in massive GH's and a diversion market ten times our population, with around 1/3-1/2 of them still living under strict prohibition.

Christy Clark is a fucking **** though. Energy is waning and we need to shut most resource extraction down to preserve what is proving more profitable re: tourism and aquaculture
If we can grow personal tobacco and brew personal alcohol why wont we be able to grow personal weed?

Lobbying from investment heavy, profit deficient licensed producers. I can't recall the numbers but they're set up to overproduce not only the medical demand but projected recreational as well.


There's a whole bloody section of the MMPR dealing with import/export regulations. Perhaps this larger fish is their sole focus, but I doubt it personally. Why ignore a stable domestic market, especially as "weed coast" tourism inevitably explodes.
 

Tynehead Tom

Well-known member
weed coast tourism hehehe
I have a part time charter operation out of nootka that has been operating on a 420 friendly business model for about 10 years now. Booking by referall only however. I've had some famous people on my boat (26ft hewes) , mostly members of rock bands and a couple actors. confidentiality agreements so no name dropping ;) It's surprising how many folks are ready to fork up a premium charter bill for the atmosphere on my ship. It's all bring yer own stash as I can't be supplying nor partaking while runnin the charter. After hours are where it's at :D
would be truly awesome to have a weed tourism business back at home tho, I live in the perfect location for a cannabis themed wellness retreat/health spa.
 

Tynehead Tom

Well-known member
yup, the news last night confirmed that trudeau is not fast tracking legalization and has directed his ministers to uphold current laws.
phucking piece of shit lying liberals. I hope a vast majority of those who voted for these clowns have learned a lesson.
Our fate rests on Canada's judges now I guess.
 

fatigues

Active member
Veteran
What a pile of alarmist nonsense.

Trudeau has done exactly what he has promised to do, and the Liberal Government has in the past week released a discussion paper through the Ministry of Health that will form a basis for discussion and receipt of views by a task force that will conduct public hearings and report back to Parliament in November.

The legislation to legalize has been promised to be presented in Parliament in April, 2017.

Why this is so Difficult - Popular Support for Legalization in Canada


What most people (and certainly most stoners) don't understand is that this isn't easy for the Liberals to do. Not only do they lack a majority in the Senate (through which the Tories can block this legislation and have, in fact, threatened to do so) but they also lack popular support in the country as a whole for legalization, depending on how the question is presented.

If you present a question to the Canadian electorate with two choices: Legalize (Yes) or Keep Criminal (No), the Yes to Legalize enjoys broad popular support in excess of 60% across the country.

Now that sounds pretty good. But hold on a sec, there's more to it than that.

If you instead change the question and present THREE possible options, Legalize, Decriminalize, or Keep Criminal, the support for legalization drops below 40%.

And THAT sounds Bad -- Very Bad if the only thing stopping the Tories from blocking legalization is a public perception that they are thwarting the will of Canadians through an unelected Senate.

Now part of the reason for the discrepancy in the result when three options are provided is probably due to the fact that many people aren't terribly well versed on the differences between the two. And it might be that with some education on those differences, that number might well be increased.

But it's a BAD way to start a controversial policy when the Tories control the Senate.

So when there was earlier this year agitation by the Far Left to decriminalize immediately, the Liberals wisely said NO.

Had they not done so, the pressure to legalize would have been lifted and the support for the new status quo would have increased and provided to the Tories a trump card with which to block the bill in the Senate -- and effect the Government's ability to pass this legislation. God damned right the Liberals though that was a very bad idea. Because it was. A VERY bad idea, actually.

But the posters here don't really get those niceties.

The fact of the matter is, there is already de facto decriminalization in effect already. Charges have dwindled to a standstill for possession (and even for most small sales for that matter) and the ability to delay a trial until legalization at this point is almost assured with any competent lawyer. There certainly is not much appetite among Crown Prosecutors to put them on the fast track as everyone knows where this is all going. So even in the relatively few cases charges are made -- they will never result in a prosecution as the accused can run out the clock.

But the subtleties of systemic court delay are lost upon most people and certainly, most posters here.

The Differences between the Constitutions of Canada and the Unites States


What is also lost upon posters here is a failure to appreciate that Canada is not the United States and our constitutions don't work the same way. In Canada, the federal government has sole jurisdiction over the criminal law, so Ottawa and Ottawa alone can decide to decriminalize something.

And most posters get that.

But what posters here don't get is that after something has been decriminalized, Ottawa no longer has much of a constitutional role in deciding what comes next. In Canada, legal products fall under "property and civil rights" and are regulated by the provinces, not the federal government.

So the Liberal government cannot legalize on their own if legalization requires a plan as to what happens AFTER legalization in order to regulate a now legal product. Because the "what comes after" part isn't something Ottawa has a constitutional right to implement. For that they need constitutional authority -- and they need active co-operation from the 10 Provincial and 3 Territorial governments who have that constitutional power. So no, this isn't just up to Trudeau and the federal government.

News Flash: not all of those Provincial governments are supportive of the Liberal's plans. Quebec, in particular, is FAR more hostile to legalization due to cultural differences.

So all of this is quite complicated and it is going to take compromise and deal making between the Feds and the provinces over a long period of time to work out a deal. This has ALREADY been ongoing for many months and it will continue over the next 9 months.

Ultimately, Ottawa is hanging its jurisdiction to regulate ANY of this on the criminal power (for what isn't legal) and upon the power to regulate dangerous products under the jurisdiction concerning Health and Safety. It's a stretch and they know it, so as this constitutional jurisdiction is thin, so the discussion paper makes a whole lot of noise about dangers and threats presented by cannabis -- because without it, Ottawa has no constitutional role in what is to follow. It's also smart politics to put those who are uncomfortable more at ease.

Whatever the case, if Ottawa has no role in this to put some plan into place as to "what comes next", you won't get legalization in Canada.

This is difficult for people to get who aren't versed in constitutional law. They simply know what they want and they want it now. How they get there? They don't know and don't much care.

Well now you do know, ok?

The Dispensary Issue: Who Gets to Sell Legal Pot in Canada?


Lastly, in the past 7 months there have been over 130 dispensaries open in Vancouver and Toronto. The pretension is to present "medical cannabis" for sale to the public as is typical in California. The difference is, there is no thin legal justification to permit it in Canada like there is in California.

Some limited few numbers of dispensaries were tolerated in the past in both cities. In Toronto, you had to know where they were and you needed a ATP card to buy from them, or at the least, a letter from your doctor. These stores were small in number (a mere handful, really), discrete in location and they really WERE bona fide medical dispensaries. They were ignored by police in Canada''s largest cities and had been since about 2000.

The ones opened this year are not like that at all. They are storefront operations, big green crosses like you would see in Cali and they don't require an ATP to buy or a doctor's letter (though if you have one, great). The pretension for some "medical requirement" were just transparent justification to sell recreational cannabis under the guise of medical marijuana. Which was fine with most people -- until 80 dispensaries opened in the space of less than three months in Toronto without zoning permits. Then it wasn't so fine.

So why open dispensaries at all? Was there a sudden bona fide need for more medical cannabis in Vancouver and Toronto?

No, not really. The reason it happened was because activists and others involved wanted to MAKE MONEY. Moreover, and more importantly, they want a role in the retailing of cannabis going forward AFTER legalization. Without an existing retail chain. they fear they are not likely to be permitted to be involved. So the rush was on to put a system into place and present it as a fait d'accomplit.

Over half of the "dispensaries" have been since shut down and whatever the demands of activists, they are not likely to get a role to play in the sale of legal cannabis going forward -- certainly not in Ontario - and probably not in B.C.. This pisses them off. They want their slice of the pie they see themselves as having worked hard to bake over a course of decades.

They certainly have a point, but the political reality is that it's not going to matter what Marc Emery and others do.

They are not likely to get a chance to sell cannabis, because the provincial governments are going to do it instead through an existing chain of distribution and retail that has been in place for over 80 years and has literally THOUSANDS of well paid employees already.

Most Americans do not understand this, but in most of Canada, beer, wine and spirits are sold through stores owned by the provincial governments, who have a virtual legal monopoly over the sale of liquor.

In Ontario, for example, all liquor (and most wine) is sold strictly through stores known as the LCBO. (Liquor Control Board of Ontario). The LCBO is so large it is the single largest customer for purchase and distribution at retail of wine and spirits in the entire world. THAT is how big it is. And the Government of Ontario wants the LCBO, already up and running with staff and hundreds of brightly litm well kept locations everywhere in the province, to have the monopoly to sell all of Ontario's cannabis products, too.

That monopoly is extremely profitable and the Premier of Ontario has no made secret that she wishes the LCBO to be the sole point of sale for legalized sales of cannabis in Ontario.

News Flash: Premier Wynne is going to get her way. She's the Premier and her government in Ontario makes the laws that govern this. Nobody else's government does. Just hers.

There are a lot of people who don't like that, but it has a strong base of public support in the province. More importantly it has a strong basis of support within the Legislature. It's going to happen that way, like it or not.

This has caused concern about the overall PRICE of cannabis sold through such outlets. Beer, wine and spirits are very expensive in Canada relative to the USA. The excise taxes are very high. With cigarettes, its even more ridiculous.

The federal government wants to roll out cannabis at a very low price so as to essentially WIPE OUT small production at a stroke. The only growers left will be for personal consumption or export to the USA.

The Provinces, on the other hand, want revenue. They are the governments that pay for education and health care in Canada and their deficits are large and growing. Revenue from cannabis sales is an attractive new source of money. If the Provinces tax cannabis like they do cigarettes and alcohol, you can expect that the existing black market will continue to flourish -- and the Federal Government knows that. They want to use legalization and a low retail price in the first decade to wipe out the existing black market and disrupt it. That's hard to do, because it is up and already operating. It is very price and product sensitive.

Politics happens in the middle of that. While the Federal Government has sole power to determine IF cannabis is legalized, the means -- and the price -- through which that will happen is in the hands of the Provinces.

So there is a LOT of deal making and negotiation that is still to come before this is done. The Provinces need to be persuaded with moral suasion to put the policy of wiping out a black market before the desire to fill their coffers with new taxes.

Not everybody see this the same way, so in the middle of all of that? Politics happens. And that takes time.
 

shaggyballs

Active member
Veteran
Sounds like cannabis in a Marlboro box...LOL

Marlboro-M-Marijuana-Cigarettes-900x440.jpg
 

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