cloning leds or fluro and watts?

Guys, I'm having the hardest time trying to clone my medicine and not sure what I'm doing wrong. I've tried both soil in cups and some gordon rockwool cubes I bought. They just eventually get yellow tips or curl under and die... no roots and I give them at least 10 to 14 days to start developing. I'm not sure if it's light, ph ..over watering or what. I poke holes in the plastic cups so the water can run off and the cubes are moist but not soaking wet. I've just bought a ph and ppm meter. The ph of my tap water is 8 and the ppm (tds) is 202, is this bad and do I need to buy RO filters or something? Also, I'm putting a little clonex on the cuts I take but from what I've read recently I'm suppose to be taking cuts that have a internode that can be below the medium. The room I'm trying to clone in is 72-80 depending on the time of day and I'm giving the clones 24 hrs light. I'm thinking the issues might be light or ph so I bought some GH ph down/up and plan on setting the tap water to 5.5. What kind of light has the best results? From my searches it seems T5's might work the best, lowes has some T8's at 17W a bulb but I'm not sure how many watts I need. It seems less is more when rooting but how much is less for say 1 to 2 squar feet? Walmart has a 17w linear fluorescent bulb with ballast for 10 bucks or lowes has a dual t8 setup with addon bulbs for $40. Also I'm seeing these LED shop bulbs, like fluorescent bulbs, at lowes in both dual and singular ballast for $40 bucks or so. One of my main questions about posting is ...does fluorescent or led root clones more efficiently? It seems like the fluoresent bulbs are what most people use but I don't mind spending a extra 10 dollars for led if they will produce the same or better and last a extra 3 years. And, then there comes into question the color rendering. Is there a particular color rendering that works better for clones? The local home depot and lowes have 4k but I can find 6500k online. I'm just trying to find the best way to clone at this point as I cant continue to buy the pricy seeds. Thanks in advance for any help!

Any lighting will do but make sure its not intense at all. Too much light stops the rooting as it has to focus on using the energy in its leafs just to stay alive. I have used fluoros and LEDs and both work great. Pull the light away a bit.

Are you using a dome for humidity? Tell us more details about what you do

Get a heatmat for your clone tray.

I'm not too sure what is too much at this point, 13 watt 20 watt 30 etc. I'd like to buy a led strip due to led/s lasting 5yrs plus but most people seem to like fluros. Is there a color temp that stands out as being better? I'm on the fence as to led / fluro and at what wattage. I'll start looking at craigslist for a heat pad!

Thanks guys, I appreciate you!

You want indirect light. I have a shelf above the lights in my veg cab. It keeps the roots warm, and gets the perfect amount of light. I just use perlite as the medium and root-tone or take-root powder.

Also, you don't want too much in the way of leaves. I strip everything but the growing tip and one set of leaves. No dome, or even mist. Just keep the perlite wet. I get almost 100% success, even when I take cuttings from a flowering plant.

WelderDan said:

You want indirect light. Also, you don't want too much in the way of leaves. I strip everything but the growing tip and one set of leaves. . I get almost 100% success, even when I take cuttings from a flowering plant.

Click to expand...

I use this same process. Glad to read what you read. I have cloned from flowering plants(2-3 weeks into flower) and it always worked out good. But right now I'm cloning some buds(6 weeks into flower). So I'm hoping "our" method of cloning works on these.

easytoker said:

Guys, I'm having the hardest time trying to clone my medicine and not sure what I'm doing wrong. I've tried both soil in cups and some gordon rockwool cubes I bought. They just eventually get yellow tips or curl under and die... no roots and I give them at least 10 to 14 days to start developing. I'm not sure if it's light, ph ..over watering or what. I poke holes in the plastic cups so the water can run off and the cubes are moist but not soaking wet. I've just bought a ph and ppm meter. The ph of my tap water is 8 and the ppm (tds) is 202, is this bad and do I need to buy RO filters or something? Also, I'm putting a little clonex on the cuts I take but from what I've read recently I'm suppose to be taking cuts that have a internode that can be below the medium. The room I'm trying to clone in is 72-80 depending on the time of day and I'm giving the clones 24 hrs light. I'm thinking the issues might be light or ph so I bought some GH ph down/up and plan on setting the tap water to 5.5. What kind of light has the best results? From my searches it seems T5's might work the best, lowes has some T8's at 17W a bulb but I'm not sure how many watts I need. It seems less is more when rooting but how much is less for say 1 to 2 squar feet? Walmart has a 17w linear fluorescent bulb with ballast for 10 bucks or lowes has a dual t8 setup with addon bulbs for $40. Also I'm seeing these LED shop bulbs, like fluorescent bulbs, at lowes in both dual and singular ballast for $40 bucks or so. One of my main questions about posting is ...does fluorescent or led root clones more efficiently? It seems like the fluoresent bulbs are what most people use but I don't mind spending a extra 10 dollars for led if they will produce the same or better and last a extra 3 years. And, then there comes into question the color rendering. Is there a particular color rendering that works better for clones? The local home depot and lowes have 4k but I can find 6500k online. I'm just trying to find the best way to clone at this point as I cant continue to buy the pricy seeds. Thanks in advance for any help!

Click to expand...

I use a small 2 bulb T5 with 1 red spectrum bulb and 1 blue, and it works great. I've heard LED works fine, just not too much as noted.

The thing I learned years ago about the water ... you can overthink it and just end up adding too much stuff, even just putting the up/down stuff in adds chemicals. Add clonex, a trace of nutes, ph down and all of sudden, it's just too much. Keeping ph in a reasonable range is good, but overall, my goal is to give clones just pure clean water. I used clonex and other similar before, but just gave it up as I don't find it necessary.

If you us RW cubes, which I use exclusively with great success, be sure to dig the hole down deeper from it's pre-drilled depth, that's for seeds. The clone wants to sit down so the tip is near, not through, the bottom of the cube.

Keep it simple, keep trying, they'll start to pop at some point.

Thanks so much gents for all the kind help. I'm hopping to get decent at this so I can supply my self in the future. At lowes they have a ultratech led 2ft 20W led strip , looks like a fluro tube, for $30 and a two bulb version for $40. Also they have a 2ft dual fluro strip ballast setup for $20 and the aquarium tubes are $9. I know Fluros work but never used any led before. Also in walmart I saw the lights of america 17W 2ft plant growing fluro strip for $9.95 but I'm not sure of the color temp..seems to be maybe 4-5k. Leds seem to last longer with little heat which is the only reason I'm debating.

Thanks friends for the help, have a great fathers day!

-EasyToker

Another question, how about no-damp? I've heard adding a fungicide to the water might be benificial so they don't get all nasty in such a humid condition. I might try cloning in 50/50 perlite and vermiculite in cups on a heat mat.

You are making this difficult I think. Perlite, 1/4-1/2" water standing in the bottom of the container, a semi permeable cover if you are in direct light, no cover if in indirect light. You needn't reinvent the wheel I pull cuttings from flowering plants all the time. Well about 60% of the time. No additives or hormones or nutes or bullshit. I'll exho the 90% or so success of the others who use similar methods. Easy Toker- make you're cloning easier!!

Rapid rooters if you don't want to listen to welderDan. Can't get them too wet like you can with soil or rockwool. I have been using them continuously for 7 or 8 years and have about a 95%success rate using them. Makes it nearly impossible to overwater..which sounds like your problem might be.

DoubleTripleOG said:

I use this same process. Glad to read what you read. I have cloned from flowering plants(2-3 weeks into flower) and it always worked out good. But right now I'm cloning some buds(6 weeks into flower). So I'm hoping "our" method of cloning works on these.

Click to expand...

I'm vegging one that I took at about 6 weeks out now. It rooted OK but was slow to take off. Now it's big enough to take a few cuttings before I re-pot it and put it outside. It is definitely do-able

C. Breeze said:

You are making this difficult I think. Perlite, 1/4-1/2" water standing in the bottom of the container, a semi permeable cover if you are in direct light, no cover if in indirect light. You needn't reinvent the wheel I pull cuttings from flowering plants all the time. Well about 60% of the time. No additives or hormones or nutes or bullshit. I'll exho the 90% or so success of the others who use similar methods. Easy Toker- make you're cloning easier!!

Click to expand...

Thanks! And, I believe you're right, I'm am making it difficult. I want to supply my medical needs but I also just want to have fun with this hoby and use it as a stress relief. I do want to try and get things right and dialed in. Dam OCD! From What I'm reading it seems like low and soft light are more important than what kelvin temp it is, so less it better? I'm really thinking of going to wallworld and getting the single 17W 24in fluro strip for $10 and a heat mat. I found this thread interesting and is where I heard about no-damp.

http://www.rollitup.org/t/clone-questions.5515/

These are the lights I'm looking at.

http://www.elightbulbs.com/catalog_product.cfm?source=NexTagCSE&prod=LA70202

or

http://www.homedepot.com/p/TOGGLED-...ht-Bulb-MK2m-T8-24-UN11ND-4080D2-A3/205357556

Thanks!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224838


Check this thread out, easy. Nice tutorial with pics. I run my clones on a window sill, or under a 23 watt cfl, or under the shade of a couple mothers- the plant wants to live- it wants to put out roots- do it can eventually pump out seeds- the environmental constraints aren't super tight necessarily, the reason I like perlite is that it is difficult to get damping off- which takes about 1/2 of my cuts maybe 2/3s when I try to root in soil- unless it is cut heavily heavily with perlite. You'll like the thread I linked too.

Thanks Breeze and guys, I'm going to try the perlite and a small led or fluro ( indirectly ) and just keep it simple. Thanks again, have a great night gents!

cloning is so simple if you dial in...... light weak,humidity high, medium moist not overly wet,stable warm temps..perlite is almost foolproof..even miracle grow stuff works fine as it has weak ferts already..otherwise I use weak bloom ferts and a cloning product...yeehaw..clear sterlite trays work great for cloning ..add in heat mat and your set..foolproof well my setup is ..check it once a day and if ya forget no big deal..those cheap undercabinet full spectrum floros from Walmart like 12$$work great like 17 watts .. I use 2 per tray

Hey there easytoker, glad that I feel like I can totally help you with this, because it's EXACTLY what I was having issues with, and I just recently started my herbal adventures.
Firstly, dat pH should be about 6 (7 hydro). So... I have a four bulb T5HO 24w that I veg with, and I tried using just the light at a distance for cloning in the past, then a paper towel to block the intensity, had issues consistently. Until I changed a few things. To understand, I was using rockwool cubes, then a homemade bubbler (nightmare, even with replenished chlorine to keep slime in check, just put it in storage for the time being) and changed my cloning method. I didn't use a humi-dome after I saw that it wasn't exactly an air tight fit (maybe I got a shitty one, who knows), so I saw a thread on here. Basically, this method solved part of my issue. The method involves taking two clear disposable half cups that come in sets of 20 or more at your local department store for about $2-$3 and a roll of electrical tape to make individual domes for your clones that are self containing up to 100% humidity, and buddy, it's badass.

Take one half cup, fill it with whichever soil you use for clones (even if you don't use soil and you're going hydro, just for cloning, I adore inoculated soil, we use Happy Frog from Fox Farm, has a shit ton of bennies in it already) and wet it a bit. It really helps if your cloning soil has perlite (little white chunks) that will actually gas off the water and raise the humidity in your individomes*TM . Helps if you have heat, but we'll get to that.

Poke a hole (I use a wooden bamboo skewer, it's perfect for lockpicking certain doorknobs in some older houses as well, fun fact) in the center, down to the bottom. Take your clone, place in water temporarily, prep your cloning gel if you use it, I'd recommend it (keep your gels cool, warm gel no bueno, make sure dat shizz has IBA). Apply gel to the clones, do NOT dip your stems into the gel container, it will contaminate the entire thing, and it's a no-no. Then place into the hole in the center, place the other half cup on top, electrical tape the middle and voila! Successful clone, in a dome.

As for your light dilemma... With my T5, I had several issues, they just didn't want to root. My opinion is that the light is just too strong, I use two blue (24w 6400k) and two red (24w 3000k) T5 bulbs, for a balance in light theory, it did well! Great internodal length and growth. Definitely stockier, but then again, I kept tying them over and down, clipping fan leaves here and there... To redirect the plants hormones. But the good stuff applies to older more mature post cloned plants that have developed roots already. My friend gave me a lamp before he moved back to my homestate recently, basically a spider lamp with adjustable lamp positions on it. So I was like hmm... I could use this. Found a box of micro T2 23w spiral bulbs (I thought they were CFLs, but I guess not) and popped five of them in there. I use the two light function mostly for less intense light, and I place my clones on top of my T5, so the bottom stays warm, the spider lamp heats the top enough, and provides low intensity light (T5 being high intensity that promotes vertical growth as Jake pointed out).

So my problem, I feel was using my T5, then I lucked out with a house lamp and that our apartment complex left the utility unit open for a few weeks... Those bulbs work wonders. I get roots in 10 days with our Grape Ape, but the MGK still has yet to form VISIBLE roots, been 12 days. May take longer, we shall see!

So try a low intensity light and altering your cloning method a bit, just wanted to give you what I use in case you need something that is the only method I have experience with that has worked for me, and I wish you luck in your endeavors.

The room I'm trying to clone in is 72-80

probably at least some of your problem ....if you are accurate.....

The thread in my sig stresses..... warmer temps....

Give them 80 all the time and your success will grow......

Also go to walmart and buy a aquarium thermometer...... that will tell you the real story.....

Warm air, cold roots. (Not freezing cold. Just, colder than the air temp and you're golden, you don't to shock that area with terribly cold, lower than 65'F. )

I think you've got that backwards. Cool leafs with high humidity and ~75-78° roots