successful grows - veg time and pot size, plants per light?

staff11 · Sep 30, 2010

Not to step on any toews CC, but I just looked at my 50 lb bag of dolomite (which I will have forever...LOL) and it has 24% Ca to 12% Mg. It's called pulverized garden lime (basically dolomite) by Mayville. I also add espoma biotone+ which has 3-1 Ca to Mg. I also always thought to much Ca will lock out K as well?

Clackamas Coot · Sep 30, 2010

staff11 said:
I also always thought to much Ca will lock out K as well?

staff11

Hi-dosing with Calcium is as bad as hi-dosing with Magnesium, Potassium, whatever.

If you're using viable EWC then you have all the calcium (in the form of calcium carbonate) that you need. As well as the proper balance of the other minerals. It's the misadventure's by gardeners that throws out this balance.

It seems like it kinda works like this - New Gardener Joe reads on a forum that plants need element X to grow successfully. Rather than find out where this element X is derived from, the typical path seems to be 'What product do I need to buy to make sure my plants are getting element X?'

A path fraught with problems and disasters, IMHO.

Chitin and the Chitosan product comes to mind specifically.

CC

DARC MIND · Sep 30, 2010

staff11 said:
Not to step on any toews CC, but I just looked at my 50 lb bag of dolomite (which I will have forever...LOL) and it has 24% Ca to 12% Mg. It's called pulverized garden lime (basically dolomite) by Mayville.

i find that most baged dolomite lime tht ive used, has more ca then mg as well.
heres a neat read
how important is soil cal:mag ratio

"If you're using viable EWC then you have all the calcium (in the form of calcium carbonate) that you need. As well as the proper balance of the other minerals."
^^^^right on

guest2012y · Sep 30, 2010

I've noticed that different dolomite companies have different ratios of cal and mag on the label.....probably mined in different locations.

Start with a good base mix using a quality peat as CC mentioned,a quality compost,quality EWC,and amend with quality fertz and minerals at the recommended rates...(that's pretty stoner too eh...fertz yo)..you could also add some coco coir and/or some topsoil as well.
You could also use perlite or pumice for drainage improvement,but after you master the water thing it becomes less and less a problem.
After you mix those ingredients together with any of the various mixing systems which will evenly mix it....you can "cook" it in a large container or just stuff each pot and moisten each pot with an AACT so the beneficial microbes can begin to break down all the components at as equal rate as possible.
This is the beginning of of building a good indoor soil...from there you can begin to recycle and add all the little goodies we talk about here as you become familiar with their properties and amendment rates. Or just follow CC's soil mix...it has all the little goodies in it from the get go I believe.

Clackamas Coot · Sep 30, 2010

One of the reasons that I like Steve Solomon's 'lime mix' is that he includes equal amounts (by volume and not weight) of limestone (aka agriculture lime), dolomite lime and gypsum.

Limestone = calcaium carbonate (CaCO3)
Dolomite = elemental calcium and magnesium carbonate CaMg(CO3)2
Gypsum = calcium sulphate (CaSO4·2H2O)

Calcium = base alkaline cations (ions)
Gypsum = elemental calcium (alkaline) and sulphur. Sulphur when broken down releases Hydrogen (H) which is a base acid cation and with the calcium it can both raise and lower a pH reading. This is the 'liming agent' that is widely used by commercial organic farmers.

Note: While magnesium (Mg++) is a base alkaline cation, it's unclear to me if this mineral plays any role in the pH readings. Same with potassium (P) - also a base alkaline mineral but whether or not it plays in a role is also unclear from my studies and readings.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

CC

VerdantGreen · Sep 30, 2010

always worth bearing in mind that plants in flower that start to yellow will not green up again after being fed. the food may well still be working but dont expect the leaves to change back. the best you can do is slow down or stop the yellowing.

incidentally some of my best yields have come from plants that started yellowing too early in flower and got fed - so all is not lost

VG

guest2012y · Sep 30, 2010

VerdantGreen said:
always worth bearing in mind that plants in flower that start to yellow will not green up again after being fed. the food may well still be working but dont expect the leaves to change back. the best you can do is slow down or stop the yellowing.

incidentally some of my best yields have come from plants that started yellowing too early in flower and got fed - so all is not lost

VG

That's pretty much how the ball bounces V. Once in a while I'll get a plant that starts to yellow in early to mid flower and I can get it to green back up before she gets to far in (strain/type depending)..but once you get past that midway point..there's no turning back. And like you say,that doesn't mean your yield will suck. This is where proper re-amending on a recycle counts for me. Usually if I pay attention to the signals my plants give me in a cycle,I can properly prepare the next round and get better results.

GeorgeSmiley · Sep 30, 2010

Yeah Cheeze..... I'm riding out the "yellow-wave" in my flower room. This is the first time I didn't transplant just before flowering and it's the first time things yellowed up on me in mid flower.

Oh well, wont make the mistake again and they still are swelling everyday

Smiley

guest2012y · Sep 30, 2010

Clackamas Coot said:
One of the reasons that I like Steve Solomon's 'lime mix' is that he includes equal amounts (by volume and not weight) of limestone (aka agriculture lime), dolomite lime and gypsum.

Limestone = calcaium carbonate (CaCO3)
Dolomite = elemental calcium and magnesium carbonate CaMg(CO3)2
Gypsum = calcium sulphate (CaSO4·2H2O)

Calcium = base alkaline cations (ions)
Gypsum = elemental calcium (alkaline) and sulphur. Sulphur when broken down releases Hydrogen (H) which is a base acid cation and with the calcium it can both raise and lower a pH reading. This is the 'liming agent' that is widely used by commercial organic farmers.

Note: While magnesium (Mg++) is a base alkaline cation, it's unclear to me if this mineral plays any role in the pH readings. Same with potassium (P) - also a base alkaline mineral but whether or not it plays in a role is also unclear from my studies and readings.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

CC

I'm using this lime mix in my soil. I can say that it doesn't hurt one bit. I will get 1 to 4 pots each round that lockout in veg. (out of like 60 pots) I assume it's from the re-amending components not being pre-broke down before planting rather than anything else. I can fix the problem 99% of the time with a EWC/compost topdress followed by an AACT a couple days later.

guest2012y · Sep 30, 2010

GeorgeSmiley said:
Yeah Cheeze..... I'm riding out the "yellow-wave" in my flower room. This is the first time I didn't transplant just before flowering and it's the first time things yellowed up on me in mid flower.

Oh well, wont make the mistake again and they still are swelling everyday

Smiley

I have had very successful early flower transplants that turned plants around in about a week...others not. I think you just have to get then early....I'm feeling in the first two weeks. (strain/type depending)

VerdantGreen · Sep 30, 2010

GeorgeSmiley said:
Yeah Cheeze..... I'm riding out the "yellow-wave" in my flower room. This is the first time I didn't transplant just before flowering and it's the first time things yellowed up on me in mid flower.

Oh well, wont make the mistake again and they still are swelling everyday

Smiley

if you think it's because they're rootbound, dont be scared to leave the pot standing in a saucer of nice N rich runoff for a few hours.

Clackamas Coot · Sep 30, 2010

CaptCheeze1

Bill over at Concentrates is going to get the following mixed and prilled for me.

3x Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust
1x Limestone
1x Gypsum
1x Soft Rock Phosphate
1x Fossilized Kelp (instead of NJ Greensand)
1x Sea Minerals

This is what I'm applying to the project at our home to rebuild the piss-poor soil that we were blessed with. It's like a yard covered with Miracle Grow potting soil - if that.

We'll see..................

CC

guest2012y · Sep 30, 2010

Well that should help eh.........
Now correct me if I'm wrong,but oyster shell is the exact same calcium as limestone...calcium carbonate right?

Clackamas Coot · Sep 30, 2010

Capt.Cheeze1 said:
Now correct me if I'm wrong,but oyster shell is the exact same calcium as limestone...calcium carbonate right?

Correct.

Soft Rock Phosphate also contains 23% elemental calcium (Ca++) as well as a good level of clay.

CC

GeorgeSmiley · Sep 30, 2010

Capt.Cheeze1 said:
I have had very successful early flower transplants that turned plants around in about a week...others not. I think you just have to get then early....I'm feeling in the first two weeks. (strain/type depending)

I think I could have gotten away with that before week 3 but it hadn't really manifested itself and when it did I was thinking lockout.

VerdantGreen said:
if you think it's because they're rootbound, dont be scared to leave the pot standing in a saucer of nice N rich runoff for a few hours.

I have them some alfalfa,ewc,fish hydro,kelp,molasses,

Clackamas Coot said:
CaptCheeze1

Bill over at Concentrates is going to get the following mixed and prilled for me.

3x Gaia Green Glacial Rock Dust
1x Limestone
1x Gypsum
1x Soft Rock Phosphate
1x Fossilized Kelp (instead of NJ Greensand)
1x Sea Minerals

This is what I'm applying to the project at our home to rebuild the piss-poor soil that we were blessed with. It's like a yard covered with Miracle Grow potting soil - if that.

We'll see..................

CC

Cool, cool people, the damn cat attacked me the other day

Good mix, is this just for you or is Bill gonna offer this?

Thanks

guest2012y · Sep 30, 2010

This is where caution needs to be taken when re-amending with all these various goodies.
You have to account for the calcium,magnesium,sulpher,etc,etc. when combining things like sul-po-mag,dolomite,limes,etc.etc. This could really mess a guy up if he isn't paying attention to the properties and amounts of each amendment....this could be a lot of the problem for people.....the "gotta' have element X trip" again.

The "Sea Minerals" sounds interesting.......Pirate Bill's High Seas mix?...Arrrrrrrrr

Clackamas Coot · Sep 30, 2010

GeorgeSmiley said:
Good mix, is this just for you or is Bill gonna offer this?

Thanks

Just for me and friends. It's not like I need 300 lbs. of a mineral mix - LOL

It'll be available for my cost as soon as it's done. I'm still trying to figure out which is the best class of clay to use. You can go from prilled to pellitized pretty quickly which will increase the time necessary to make the minerals available.

Prilled - almost instantly breaks away the clay with water.

Pellitized - a harder clay is used to slow down the release. Generally used in agriculture applications.

CC

GeorgeSmiley · Sep 30, 2010

Thanks a lot CC, no matter how able body I seem, it's always you and Cheeze doin the footwork

Not totally but yeah

Smiley

compost · Sep 30, 2010

Ive hit 34oz's 69 days off of 1 plant in a 27 gallon container 1200w's. My current run gonna be 69 days 6 plants, two 27 gallon conainters and hoping to get 42-44oz's.

There is really 3 major keys to getting good results assuming you have light:

More roots=more pot
environmental
genetics

I hope my next run which is 2 plants each in its own 27 gallon container will hit over 48oz's. I use the blumats mainly organic and im starting to get into a groove a bit.

One thing I can tell you is to try to never be content. Ive been growing for almost 5 years now and I can EASILY say I know nothing.....

Clackamas Coot · Sep 30, 2010

compost

How do you like the Blumat product? I've been using them for several months and would never go back.

CC

EDIT: It was GeorgeSmiley that first turned me onto these devices over tacos one day so a 'Thank You' is in order! Thanks, George!

successful grows - veg time and pot size, plants per light?

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