True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

CannaRed · Mar 17, 2019

Future4200 said:
This is a point I would like to see the OP address.

Mineral oil comes from plants. Cannabis itself has compounds similar to mineral oil. Seems reasonable that a plant based compound might look like "mineral oil"?

I have a question.
Is mineral oil technically a terpene or terpinoid?
I know that alot of substances are technically.

TT really should have addressed the whole situation a month ago. They could have possibly prevented all these tests. Looks like their secret proprietary recipe is about to be revealed to the whole community.

Whether guilty of this or not, not handled well.
This whole thing, and now the release of their secrets is the fault of head of public relations.
They will probably lose their job, for their secrets getting out.

CannaRed · Mar 17, 2019

killa12345 said:
Nice to see some familiar faces in this thread.....geez this dont look good whether its mineral oil or not. Really interested to see the results on this and havent seen many TT commercials on my youtube videos lately.....Was getting tired of the forbidden fruit commercials all the time!....LOL

Because I searched TT. My phone's free apps have been bombarding me with True Terpenes advertisements!

Gray Wolf · Mar 17, 2019

CannaRed said:
I have a question.
Is mineral oil technically a terpene or terpinoid?
I know that alot of substances are technically.

TT really should have addressed the whole situation a month ago. They could have possibly prevented all these tests. Looks like their secret proprietary recipe is about to be revealed to the whole community.

Whether guilty of this or not, not handled well.
This whole thing, and now the release of their secrets is the fault of head of public relations.
They will probably lose their job, for their secrets getting out.

None of the above. A (mono) terpene is two isoprenes linked, which are aromatic double bonded Alkene molecules arranged in the shape of a hobby horse. A sesquiterpene is three isoprenes linked. A terpenoid is also an aromatic molecule, with a terpene like structure.

Most of what is in mineral oil are full saturated single bonded Alkanes, which are not aromatic molecules. Plants produce both.

CannaRed · Mar 18, 2019

Gray Wolf said:
None of the above. A (mono) terpene is two isoprenes linked, which are aromatic double bonded Alkene molecules arranged in the shape of a hobby horse. A sesquiterpene is three isoprenes linked. A terpenoid is also an aromatic molecule, with a terpene like structure.

Most of what is in mineral oil are full saturated single bonded Alkanes, which are not aromatic molecules. Plants produce both.

Thanks GW.
The reason I asked that is because I heard on a podcast that cannabinoids are technically terpenoids too. Is this correct?
I also heard that THC is odorless molecule, so that wouldn't exactly be an aromatic compound. Doesn't jive in me brain. Set me straight Wolf.

(Figured I'd take advantage of this opportunity. Who better to learn from?)

ReikoX · Mar 18, 2019

TrueTerpenes · Mar 18, 2019

Please see our official statement here: https://trueterpenes.com/viscosity-statement/

Gray Wolf · Mar 18, 2019

CannaRed said:
Thanks GW.
The reason I asked that is because I heard on a podcast that cannabinoids are technically terpenoids too. Is this correct?
I also heard that THC is odorless molecule, so that wouldn't exactly be an aromatic compound. Doesn't jive in me brain. Set me straight Wolf.

(Figured I'd take advantage of this opportunity. Who better to learn from?)

The confusion comes in when the two words are used interchangeably and they are not the same.

A terpene is an aromatic hydrocarbon. Nothing there but carbon and hydrogen atoms, C-10, 15, 20, 30, 40, etc.

A terpenoid is an aromatic hydrocarbon based on a terpene, but containing other atoms like in the case of THC, oxygen.

A di-terpene would be a C-20 molecule, while THC is a di-terpenoid with C-22, with two oxygen molecules.

Aromatic refers to the Alkene "aromatic Benzene ring" molecules. They are called aromatics because of the ring structure, containing double carbon bonds, or Alkynes with triple carbon bonds.

As the molecules get longer and heavier, they are less aromatic to the nose, but still called aromatics because of the benzene ring.

Of note, they call it a benzene ring, because the ring structure was first discovered with benzene, but they in fact contain no benzene.

JRace · Mar 19, 2019

TrueTerpenes said:
Please see our official statement here: https://trueterpenes.com/viscosity-statement/

In case you don't want to bother clicking on the link:

True Terpenes Viscosity Statement
March 18, 2019

Hi Friends,
Let’s talk about Viscosity and furthermore, quality.
First of all, we’d like to thank the various communities sharing their thoughts and concerns about Viscosity Extract Liquifier.
We value feedback. Especially when it comes to product safety and accuracy. It shows the industry is truly maturing and we couldn’t be
happier to share more about the steps we take to ensure we keep our quality promise.

Demanding transparency and product integrity from suppliers is all of our responsibility to our valued customers. It’s especially exciting tosee people independently testing. We accept your challenge, and hope you’ll hold each of your suppliers to a similar standard.
So, brass tacks. Viscosity is marketed as an organic, flavorless, odorless blend that is naturally derived from plants. We’re proud to
say that indeed it is. It is a beloved product whose secretive and hard to pinpoint formulation have lent it to being falsely accused of
originating from sharks, humpback whales and now, mineral oil. Viscosity is actually derived from very common plant matter. We do not source from petroleum, period.

While we generally don’t get too invested in debunking rumors, the latest claim comes with some analytic reports to unpack. Notably a
recent report from Essential Oils University. So let’s unpack!
Experienced makers within the cannabis industry are quick to point out just how difficult it is to obtain trustworthy analytics. But, for thesake of argument, let’s say the analytics are indeed accurate.

The first item to point out is the report only shows roughly 31% of the total contents. So the puzzle is quite incomplete. But, there are
things here we can work with.

It’s actually not surprising to see how mineral oil would pop up as a possible conclusion. This actually contributes to our perception of the quality of the analytics. After all, Viscosity shares a few key molecular similarities such as weight and structure.
Some of the component parts of Viscosity have a similar molecular weight to those found in mineral oil. They also share similar densities and structurally, they are both predominantly long saturated hydrocarbon chains.

What’s interesting as well is that more than a handful of compounds found in mineral oil are also found in plants! Just as Alpha Pinene
can be found in both cannabis and pine cones, heneicosane, icosane, octadecane, nonadecane, tricosane and many more aromatic compounds are found in both plants and other petroleum based oils. Indeed, aromatics are everywhere in nature.
So, how does one easily tell the difference? Touch it!
Mineral oil is greasy and does not penetrate the skin, even becoming sticky. Conversely, Viscosity is absorbed and disappears very quickly.

Given the other similarities, this is actually a pretty easy tell. Please use your best jugdment when handling undiluted products.
To say the least, we take consumer concerns very seriously. The True Terpenes Executive Team would like to extend a public thank you to our dedicated chemists, quality assurance and procurement staff members for sacrificing a very beautiful Portland weekend to tackle these concerns head on. We are so proud of our team of 50+ terpene enthusiasts who push daily to create a TRUE standard in an industry that sorely needs them.

Many thanks for taking the time to read this statement. We hope it is both insightful and helps shed light on why using a trusted sourcing partner is absolutely critical. As a proud FDA registered and GMP compliant company, we stand behind all of our products. Every raw material that enters our facility is analyzed for safety and authenticity. We qualify our suppliers and validate our equipment thoroughly.

For every procedure, there is a method. This is core to our business because frankly, we actually care.

But don’t just take our word for it. As a token of good faith, we have invited a trusted member of the cannabis maker community, Dustin
‘Future4200’ for a thorough tour of our facility. While we will ask he not share the formula, we do welcome him to share his experience.
We look forward to pulling back the curtain and sharing our growth and commitment to being the standard bearers for terpene education and quality. And, while we’re sharing, we may as well mention that we very much look forward to expanding the Viscosity product line in the near future!

The very best to you,
The True Terpenes Team

Flavor is Our Passion. Quality is Our Promise.

Sertaiz · Mar 19, 2019

future 4200 has 5 posts and all are in this thread, he also said he has been friends with yall since you started business....... so i dont trust this person at all. for you to use them as your good faith person is insane. wow. i dont think people on this platform are that dumb. kind of insulting, ring around the posies, i gotta burn one.....

you already told us to go f off becuase its all legal what you sell and you dont need to tell us whats in it. now this is a much longer nicer toned version of the same. cool.

CannaRed · Mar 19, 2019

Sertaiz said:
future 4200 has 5 posts and all are in this thread, he also said he has been friends with yall since you started business....... so i dont trust this person at all. for you to use them as your good faith person is insane. wow. i dont think people on this platform are that dumb. kind of insulting, ring around the posies, i gotta burn one.....

you already told us to go f off becuase its all legal what you sell and you dont need to tell us whats in it. now this is a much longer nicer toned version of the same. cool.

Ninja, where did you first bring this up? This thread, or another forum?

Some of us (like me) are only on icmag, and this where we first learned of the issue.
T.T.
I don't really like how you posted "here is our official statement". And make us click on your website.
Jrace had to actually put it in the thread. You need to learn Public Relations and at the very least+ how to copy and paste. You owe it to ICMAG. Without sites like this, that spread knowledge of cannabis, you guys would have zero customer base.
I get it. You guys don't have a good P.R. person. What I don't get is how you didn't hire one a month ago.
This whole fiasco could have been avoided with a better spin doctor.

And now a statement saying same ol stuff but higher word count.
Only thing new: there is no mineral oil and you're letting one person in for a field trip to see.

At this point I don't care if it's mineral oil. I want to know if there are any terpenes. And if there are only terpenes.

I don't want your secret recipe, and it's not fair to you guys that your recipe could get out, but you did not handle this.

watts · Mar 19, 2019

Danger. Buyer beware. Purchase at own risk.

Roji · Mar 20, 2019

ExtractNinja · Mar 20, 2019

I have been busy past two days so I havent kept up on replying to messages and comments. I will catch up tomorrow 03/20/19

Right now the most recent and DAMNING posts are on FUTURE4200 in the short True Terpenes thread. I joined there and started posting. Thats when things went downhill for TT. Short verison: theres mineral oil in there.

https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes/12544

G.O. Joe · Mar 20, 2019

Distinctive patterns of autoimmune response induced by different types of mineral oil

The GC column, temperature program, and results there are typical for mineral oils. It would not matter if the same alkanes came from plants instead. What do I care? Even if Mr. Ninja is an unsavory competitor switching samples, I get the cold feeling of shade around Mr. Terpenes. I often find that true around highly respected persons in the cannabiz, so maybe it's me.

Viscosity is marketed as an organic, flavorless, odorless blend that is naturally derived from plants. We’re proud to say that indeed it is. It is a beloved product whose secretive and hard to pinpoint formulation have lent it to being falsely accused of originating from sharks, humpback whales and now, mineral oil. Viscosity is actually derived from very common plant matter. We do not source from petroleum, period.

Now it can be vegetable oil or wax.

It’s actually not surprising to see how mineral oil would pop up as a possible conclusion. This actually contributes to our perception of the quality of the analytics. After all, Viscosity shares a few key molecular similarities such as weight and structure.

Some of the component parts of Viscosity have a similar molecular weight to those found in mineral oil. They also share similar densities and structurally, they are both predominantly long saturated hydrocarbon chains.

What happened to
made from a blend of 100% organic terpenes. It does not contain PG, VG, PEG, MCT, Coconut oil, or any other non-terpene ingredients. No shenanigans, wordplay, marketing gimmicks, or Tom-foolery. Seriously, we only use terpenes.
That's quite a change. In other words, expect shenanigans, wordplay, marketing gimmicks, or Tom-foolery?

What’s interesting as well is that more than a handful of compounds found in mineral oil are also found in plants! Just as Alpha Pinene can be found in both cannabis and pine cones, heneicosane, icosane, octadecane, nonadecane, tricosane and many more aromatic compounds are found in both plants and other petroleum based oils.

Maybe Mr. Terpenes should look up what aromatic means, since none of those are aromatic. He already knows what terpenes means - $$$. The melting point of those alkanes is 86-117 F - they're usually things people take some trouble to remove from their extracts, and deliberately adding them would be considered adulteration and unhealthy 100% of the time. Does anyone have GC of winterization crud? I have a feeling that such a mixture would actually separate into its components much better on the GC than mineral oil.

Refined mineral oil's most defining feature is being a difficultly separable mixture of all kinds of alkanes that cannot be refined further. This is a characteristic of petroleum refining, and I'm not so sure that mixtures of dozens to hundreds of alkanes inseparable by chromatography or distillation are met with outside of the petroleum world.

CannaRed said:
I want to know if there are any terpenes. And if there are only terpenes.

I'd like to know the iodine or bromine value and the boiling point. These are standard lab tests that can be done at home. There are simple chemical tests using hardware store chemicals that can rule out the presence of anything but alkanes or can strongly suggest terpenes and especially the -ene part of terpenes. Mineral oil from the drug store is 100% alkanes, perhaps even sesquiterpanes and triterpanes, and can be used ironically as the solvent in these tests. I'd especially like to know the general number of carbons that corresponds to the range on the chromatograms.

ExtractNinja · Mar 20, 2019

G.O. Joe said:
I'd like to know the iodine or bromine value and the boiling point. These are standard lab tests that can be done at home. There are simple chemical tests using hardware store chemicals that can rule out the presence of anything but alkanes or can strongly suggest terpenes and especially the -ene part of terpenes.
Mineral oil from the drug store is 100% alkanes, perhaps even sesquiterpanes and triterpanes, and can be used ironically as the solvent in these tests. I'd especially like to know the general number of carbons that corresponds to the range on the chromatograms.

Are there directions online? Im game. Boiling point I can figure out I hope

On the next test I can geet the carbon #. Is that something I would ask the lab that made the chormatogram?

G.O. Joe · Mar 20, 2019

Oh I'm just too lazy-high to look for identified peaks on your lab reports and figure it out in about two minutes. I was just thinking out loud, because high boiling can't be good - and that non-volatile residue bears investigation. They may be walking back the terpene part? So it's not important but an iodine or bromine value of 1 would be very funny to me because it would prove the absence of terpenes - regardless of how many thousands of peaks there are.

The directions are online in ways, but not so much probably for non-chemists. I've tried to write a few things and keep erasing them because my perspective as a practicing (home) chemist is a bit different and not necessarily welcomed here. I don't have any handy directions for non-chemists, no.

The important thing for your testing is getting identified peaks instead of unidentified peaks. What if you find a number of molecules that don't exist in plants? You know you're going to have to test the next lot too to see the reaction to this round.

Stickybred420 · Mar 20, 2019

how the fuck is this shit water legally on the market without a list of constituents. that's a regulatory standard and law. this company is a joke. how did TT even get this far.

lol fuck your "proprietary" blend.

Gray Wolf · Mar 20, 2019

Here is the SDS sheet required by law:

https://buy-terpenes.com/certificates/sds/VISCOSITY_SDS_True_Terpenes.pdf

beta · Mar 20, 2019

Stickybred420 said:
how the fuck is this shit water legally on the market without a list of constituents. that's a regulatory standard and law.

Unfortunately that is not the case. For example nobody can tell you the recipe for Pepsi, or what's in a bottle of booze, or the ingredients in cigarettes.

Sertaiz · Mar 20, 2019

or whats in laundry detergent, not anymore....

True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

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