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Can Not Shake This Calcium Deficiency/Lockout For The Life Of Me!! Why???

Rabbi

Member
Pretty much all of this. It is true that high ppm of CO2 needs to be matched with appropriate levels of nutes and lighting. That's just the science of the formula for photosynthesis. If there is a bottleneck, in at least one of those three factors, the photosynthesis will only be as successful as its limiting factor will let it be.

That said, I agree that this is definitely not a calcium deficiency, because it is an immobile element, and you would be seeing a specific look in all of the new growth. What I see here does in fact look like lockout, which can result from several factors, most commonly pH problems. Have you confirmed that your pH meter is accurate? Have you calibrated it? Tested it against some liquid drops or something like that?

If your pH is fine, then if I were you I would consider the possibility that you have fusarium, or some other fungal infection as was previously mentioned. Hell, maybe there's even some strange environmental factor in your new location, like offgassing from some construction product or something random like that.

But yeah, that looks like lockout.


Hi Hush. Even though this is a new location, I've actually been using the same set up, levels of nutes, co2 and etc successfully for over 15 years at my old location. However in my new location my co2 generator and co2 meter/ controller are alot further from each other with the plants being in the middle so I could possibly see the co2 levels being way higher in the plant area. Not saying that, that's for sure the problem but I think it's a good place to start. It's easy enough to unplug the generator and find out for sure so I can cross that off the list.

Yes I have confirmed my ph meter is accurate. It's a fairly new Blue Lab meter and I calibrate it all the time. I was using the drops before and was still having the same issues. That was why I bought the meter so I could for sure cross ph off the list as well. Ph being one of the first things a guy thinks when seeing stuff like this.

If the co2 thing doesn't work I'll for sure check into the fusarium thing. Certainly not saying it isn't fusarium or what not but seems like a huge coincidence that in 15 years growing in my old location, never once did I have anything like that but immediately starting with my first grow I would have it here. Again, not saying that isn't the issue here but the co2 thing sounds more likely to me atm.

"offgassing from some construction product or something random like that". Yes this is something I've considered a ton. This building was an old qounset that we completely renovated to new again, so lots of work done there. I'm praying that this is not what the problem is because I wouldn't even know where to start if that was the case. Hopefully it's the co2 or the fusarium lol.

Thx for the help Hush, I really appreciate your advice man.:tiphat:
 

RockinRobot

Active member
Hopefully you're already aware, but, also make sure your CO2 controller is at the same height as the canopy and not up high as CO2 is heavier than air.
 

Rabbi

Member
So its been about 12 days now since I unplugged the co2 but can't say I'm seeing much(if any) difference. Do you guys really think it could be fusarium? Never even heard of that before, but I am super lucky that way(sarcasm) so it wouldn't surprise me. Just seems so odd that I would have it so bad right from my very first crop(at the new place here). How can a guy find out for sure? How does one get fusarium? Is it in the water?

If anyone else has any other ideas please let me know. Running out of shit to try here lol.

Edit: If had fausarium wouldn't that effect my mother plants too though? Or no? Cause my mothers are completely fine. Clones always root, no problems.
 
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Rabbi

Member
After doing some reading and so on, I actually don't think I have fusarium.

Other than shitty plants I don't seem to have any of the common symptoms associated with fusarium.

No weak or busting open stems. I even ripped into a bunch and none had the red inside the stem.

Which brings me back to the drawing board again. I literally have no clue what's going on in there. Maybe I need to be more patient with the co2 thing. Not a clue a this stage. Sucks. But also glad to not see signs of Fusarium. That shit sounds horrible once you have it.
 
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Rabbi

Member
Here's a pic of a plant at 8 and 1/2 weeks flower that I ripped open at the bottom stem. No fusarium.

PCHpFUY.jpg
[/IMG]
 

Lost in a SOG

GrassSnakeGenetics
The thing id say about co2 and deficiency would be, you can easily google this, co2 lowers stomatal conductance.. that is to say it pretty much closes them relative to co2 conc.

Lower stomatal conductance = lower transpiration = slower immobile nutrient uptake = calcium deficiency..

Imo a lot of grow styles and regimes, besides organic, leave the plants in a dangerous place at the best of times but add some co2 and some out of wack environmental conditions and you'll get screwed with a uncurable Ca def.. ime anyway.
 

Rabbi

Member
The thing id say about co2 and deficiency would be, you can easily google this, co2 lowers stomatal conductance.. that is to say it pretty much closes them relative to co2 conc.

Lower stomatal conductance = lower transpiration = slower immobile nutrient uptake = calcium deficiency..

Imo a lot of grow styles and regimes, besides organic, leave the plants in a dangerous place at the best of times but add some co2 and some out of wack environmental conditions and you'll get screwed with a uncurable Ca def.. ime anyway.

Thx Lost. Someone else just pm'd me and thinks it's co2 as well. Just need more patience apparently.
 

RockinRobot

Active member
From my own experience with this, once the damage is done those leaves won't recover, but no others should continue to deteriorate.

Just start at 1000 ppm CO2 next grow and you should see a definite improvement.
 

Rabbi

Member
From my own experience with this, once the damage is done those leaves won't recover, but no others should continue to deteriorate.

Just start at 1000 ppm CO2 next grow and you should see a definite improvement.

I realize the leaves won't recover. Would be nice to see some buds fill in a bit and some crystals form. I'll be patient with it though.
 

Bobby Boucher

Active member
Totally amateur opinion here, but Dutch Master Zone at 1ml per gallon has been a lifesaver for me. I went about a year and a half looking at plants very similar to yours, asking myself the same questions, ready to throw in the towel. 20 crops er so later and the symptoms have yet to show themselves again. If you do have an infection of some kind, DMZ would likely nix it.

Pretty sure bleach, pool shock, or h202 would do just as well, but in my instance, dm zone was the fix.
 

PetFlora

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
So about a little over a year ago I moved to a new place and I have been battling this Calcium issue every since moving here. Here's some info:

- Growing with Aeroponics in 5gal buckets(for almost 18 years now).
- First I was using Jack's Hydo and Cal/Nit but switched to AN 3 part(jungle juice) when the Jacks wasn't working out, since I'm more familiar with it.
- About 800ppm in flower of the M-G-B before any extra cal/mag added(but have gone as high as 1200ppm while trying to hammer things out).
- I am using r/o water(ppm 0)
- Water temps around 20-22c.
- Ph in the 6.5 - 5.5 range.
- Air temps 75-80f with lights on, 72-75f lights off.
- Co2 1500ppm lights on of course.
- 1000watt hps

I've tried adding all different kind of levels of extra cal/mag. At first none because AN says you don't need any with their products since they have enough in them.

Then I tried the recommended 150-200ppm of cal/mag. Then I tried 300ppm. Then I tried 400ppm, then 500 and then ridiculously crazy high amounts that I knew obviously wouldn't work but just to see what would happen, since shit wasn't working anyway.

Even on the super high amounts it never ever looked like excess issues, it always looked deficient all the time(lock out I assume?). And I'm talking super deficient too. Also no salt build up, clean rez's. No bugs. Even tried a different water source(city tap). I tried all these different levels for couple months at a time, just to make sure I wasn't jumping the gun too soon.

I'm literally at a loss right now. Running out of things to try. Just wasting my time, effort, money and resources. Any of you guru's out there have any idea what might be going on here? Been doing this along time, shit's just not suppose to be this fuckin hard lol.

Based on your experience, I would look elsewhere for the problem
 

Rabbi

Member
Other than a gas leak(had new gas lines installed) or something off-gassing I really don't know where else to look anymore. Hopefully it's the co2 like a few others have mentioned.
 

Rabbi

Member
Totally amateur opinion here, but Dutch Master Zone at 1ml per gallon has been a lifesaver for me. I went about a year and a half looking at plants very similar to yours, asking myself the same questions, ready to throw in the towel. 20 crops er so later and the symptoms have yet to show themselves again. If you do have an infection of some kind, DMZ would likely nix it.

Pretty sure bleach, pool shock, or h202 would do just as well, but in my instance, dm zone was the fix.

I actually already have some H202, going to start adding that tonight.
 

Rabbi

Member
Anyone else have any other ideas? It's not the co2. It's been over 2 weeks now and I've seen zero improvements :frown:.
 

RockinRobot

Active member
Anyone else have any other ideas? It's not the co2. It's been over 2 weeks now and I've seen zero improvements :frown:.

Any updated pics?

Only other suggestion would be not let your PH drift quite so high. 6.1 max on hydro for me. I usually readjust down to 5.6 or 5.7 as soon as it hits 6.0, but I never let it get above 6.1. I think 6.5 in hydro is a bit high.

My money is still on the CO2 though.
 

beta

Active member
Veteran
Are you pulling any fresh air in now that the C02 is off?

I grow coco DTW and I get symptoms like the ones you're seeing when I don't water enough and allow the coco to dry out a little bit. Bumping up the watering frequency helps a lot, but I'm not sure how that applies to a recirculating system.
 

Bobby Boucher

Active member
How much h202 are you adding, how often, and at what concentration?

If h202 or bleach would have nixed my infection, my ass was certainly too dunce too figure out how to keep adding sufficient quantities to my res often enough to make a difference.

If you can’t get your hands on zone, pool shock may be equally as aggressive. There’s a thread somewhere around here that shows safe dilution levels. I think zone might just be poolshock already diluted down to levels safe to use @1-2ml per gallon.

It does look like Co2 toxicity or some other type of off-gassing though. Hope you get it figured out.

Shalom.
 
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