Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

SirStynkalot · Jun 11, 2014

Jhhnn said:
I'm having trouble getting any of that to match with personal experience here in CO. We don't have to buy govt weed. It's legal to grow our own w/ simple plant count limitations. There's no home possession limit, either, for any amount you could conceivably have grown there. We can carry around up to an ounce for no reason whatsoever, give it away, & share it. Buy it right over the counter, too. No med card games unless you elect to play, either.

There's a whole long list of chemicals disallowed in the production of retail cannabis, as well. Outlaw growers have no such considerations unless they're self imposed.

And, uhh, here in Denver I could toke up on my front porch if I had a mind to & the cops can't bother me, because it's my property. To my knowledge, that's not true everywhere in CO.

I'm just an old Hippie from the 60's- you know, back when any amount in possession was a felony. But I'm listening, so go ahead, tell me just how fucked up this deal really is, OK?

We have a family story you will probably understand better than most on here. Tellin this for Jhnnn and not for the naysayers.

One of my grandfathers was a lawyer in Texas. He used to hate to see 18 year old kids get a "scarlet F" on their record for smoking pot, so he worked deals out with local judges to get their charges dismissed if they came back to the court with an honorable discharge for military service. Everyone involved thought he was a great guy doing a service for these kids and our country.

Then the Vietnam War came. You can guess what happened. He carried that to his dying day. It's hard to grow up hearing that and still be against legalization, even if I am young enough that I don't really understand the historical context.

Jhhnn · Jun 11, 2014

SirStynkalot said:
We have a family story you will probably understand better than most on here. Tellin this for Jhnnn and not for the naysayers.

One of my grandfathers was a lawyer in Texas. He used to hate to see 18 year old kids get a "scarlet F" on their record for smoking pot, so he worked deals out with local judges to get their charges dismissed if they came back to the court with an honorable discharge for military service. Everyone involved thought he was a great guy doing a service for these kids and our country.

Then the Vietnam War came. You can guess what happened. He carried that to his dying day. It's hard to grow up hearing that and still be against legalization.

Indeed. What few people seem to understand is that A64 was a brilliant & overwhelming attack on cannabis prohibition. CO legalization by constitutional amendment is basically permanent. When we pushed the issue, the Obama Admin told us to strut our stuff, and we are. We're dancing like Fred Astaire. Despite the naysaying, we're gonna be a hit everywhere.

SeedsOfFreedom · Jun 11, 2014

Gram Paw smurf said:
sorry but this is just pure idiocy plain n simple.
There is no debate on the subject, just those who would like to pretend there's 1 so they can keep profiting as much as possible.

simple argument of "If you grow when it's illegal for yourself, what stops you once it's legal n the sky has fallen chicken shittle?"
Answer is NOTHING.
Shows exactly how absurd this idiocy of "don't vote to legalise" is.

Only greedy fucks n the idiots following their lead don't want to legalise.
I've 0 intention of paying much attention to either, not like they can stop anything the gov itself couldn't stop anyhow so fuck 'em.
See all of yas with common sense in the future, Darwinism can take care of the rest.

cheers,.......................................................gps

This pretty much sums it up. You are breaking the law now, if they legalize without home growing allowed, just keep breaking the law.

It does seem like you have another motivation, profit perhaps? Once competition is fair and open, many wont keep up. Is this your worry shaggy? If you feel confident about your grow skills, just get into the legal business.

Please do not repress our rights as people. Marijuana prohibition is a stupid, racist, dishonest, and outdated idea.

Decriminalization is just another word for prohibition, and it allows our justice systems to keep fucking undeserving people again and again. Just Legalize!

SeedsOfFreedom · Jun 11, 2014

LEGALIZE

Just to match your bold red print shag! I used green because it seems so appropriate!

Peace brother, I debate, but have no bad feelings towards anyone on here. I just want to sway a few opinions if possible, I truly believe we must free up the herb.

ElusiveQuark · Jun 11, 2014

If your hope solely to smoke a joint without getting hassled by the man, then we are on the right course. If you hope to grow your own or buy a seed or have access to all the strains that now exist, your future is bleak. A STRATEGY NEEDS TO BE FORMULATED NOW. If not, cannabis will be in the exact same situation as corn and soy beans. If they can do it to those crops they can do it to cannabis and are doing it. FYI Jhhh, doctrine of federal preemption applies and fed trumps state law when fed rules exist in area. Would require Us constitutional amendment or argument that it is covered under constitution already. Does anyone have info that such an argument has been successful? Situation in Canada is crazy scary. Progressive to repressive almost overnight. Research who the pkayers are that have been okayed to provide cannabis. Research Uraguay and ask why limit of 10!grams per week? Who are the parties helping with Uraguay experiment and now Canada. The dominoes are falling quickly. Also research which big breeders have already sold their catalogues to big business and why no disclosure to public? It's not enough to say legalize! Devils on the detals

ElusiveQuark · Jun 11, 2014

I'm sorry to keep posting but I'm frustrated with this issue and how successful the big money machine has been in placating people w white noise. Re: statement that people will continue to grow illegally. The rules have changed when people were permitted to buy it legally. Do you understand the significance of this point? Its the crux of why there will be enforcement, not only criminally but also civilly. A several billion maybe hundreds if billion dollar market that had no recognized structure was opened to them. Suddenly Monsanto,DuPont, Pfizer, etc were given incentive to eliminate competition, especially personal and illegal growers. They also want as many potential consumers as possible. Their strategy to control supply has at least three components, all of which they used with devastating efficiency with corn, soy beans, sugar beets, etc. Between 90-100% of production of those crops worldwide is controlled by just a few companies. I think we can all agree that if such control can be placed on staple crops the world depends on to live they can likely do it to a nonstaple plant like cannabis. There are very few varieties of corn left and that number is shrinking. Here is how it happened

ElusiveQuark · Jun 11, 2014

1. They developed herbicide that killed all vegetation in an area.
2. They genetically modified corn so that it would be only thing that would grow.
3. They genetically modified corn so it could not reproduce sexually or through replication.
4. They created demand for their product by consuming ting huge tracts of land so their corn was only one that would grow. They also enlisted help of IMF, who lends money to economically distressed countries under a variety of conditions. In this case one condition was that borrowing nation would force use of the the modified seeds only and that licensing agreements would be signed by farmers agreeing to purchase new seeds every year from same company. Surprisingly, India's farmers found themselves tied to this system after a long history of more sustained farming enters they planted seeds from previous years crop w no need to buy new beans. The economic and social consequences in India were tremendous, resulting on huge number of suicides by farmers that couldn't break vicious debt cycle.

I'll finagle this in morning if anyone is interested because it's late and I need to decrompress

curbiechris · Jun 11, 2014

the legalization of cannabis will create more opportunities for EVERYONE no matter which way you cut it.

a few growers will lose out and thats fine. there will be more jobs for truck drivers, hvac specialists, electricians, and so on.

if you do not like that product that is pushed by the big growers, then grow your own. if it still illegal to grow your own, i am more than certain the penalty, if caught, will be severely less severe than it is now. for example, i am sure you need a license to brew beer, but if you did and were caught the penalty wouldn't be more than a fine. maybe.

i believe popcorn sutton was facing 18 months prison time, but he was brewing up thousands of gallons of hard liquor and was busted with a gun while on probation.
if i was busted with thousands of pounds of cannabis now with a weapon while on probation what do you think my sentence would be?

mainstream cannabis genetics might be altered. maybe for the better, but there is thousands of us that are preserving genetics, and with legalization they will be more accessible. i salivate at the idea of trading special landrace NLD/sativa clones and seeds opening with others. with medical marijuana only legislation that does not seem as probable than with full on legalization.

the only people i see hurting from this are small time growers who are trying to make a profit.

if you want to profit then i would grow and sell as much as you can between now and the next 3 years illegally and take that illegal money and invest it all to legal cannabis ventures so you can compete with the big boys.

legalization is for the best for everyone.

HunterJ · Jun 11, 2014

If anyone thinks cannabis is being legalized out of compassion you are sorely mistaken. It is being done for money, human nature hasn't suddenly evolved. But let it be legalized, just don't think you've won anything but a place in another queue.

Keep your seeds, mothers and grow skills tuned, you're going to need them if you value real quality weed grown for love and not for money.

Guerrilla is a frame of mind that never really dies except in submission to another frame of mind.

Surrender? Fuck that ... not to what amounts to another form of control.

armedoldhippy · Jun 11, 2014

I will ALWAYS vote "YES" if given the option. if it is legal to possess, growing it will be less dangerous too. there will ALWAYS be a black market for unapproved varieties, seeds, clones, etc if the govt tries to clamp down. legal alcohol is available, but I can still go knock on the right door & get moonshine too if I want it. anyone that expects me to vote to keep it illegal after fighting for nearly forty damn years to legalize it has their head shoved up into where the sun don't shine...

Jhhnn · Jun 11, 2014

ElusiveQuark said:
If your hope solely to smoke a joint without getting hassled by the man, then we are on the right course. If you hope to grow your own or buy a seed or have access to all the strains that now exist, your future is bleak. A STRATEGY NEEDS TO BE FORMULATED NOW. If not, cannabis will be in the exact same situation as corn and soy beans. If they can do it to those crops they can do it to cannabis and are doing it. FYI Jhhh, doctrine of federal preemption applies and fed trumps state law when fed rules exist in area. Would require Us constitutional amendment or argument that it is covered under constitution already. Does anyone have info that such an argument has been successful? Situation in Canada is crazy scary. Progressive to repressive almost overnight. Research who the pkayers are that have been okayed to provide cannabis. Research Uraguay and ask why limit of 10!grams per week? Who are the parties helping with Uraguay experiment and now Canada. The dominoes are falling quickly. Also research which big breeders have already sold their catalogues to big business and why no disclosure to public? It's not enough to say legalize! Devils on the detals

The devil is in the details, for sure. Witness the difference between CO & WA. That difference is even more pronounced when it comes to the difference between countries & structural features of different forms of govt.

Neither Canada nor Uruguay matter at all in the context of legalization in this country. They can't tell us what to do.

In this country, the federal govt has limited power in terms of what they can make state govts do, as well. They can't make state govts enforce federal law wrt cannabis or anything else. Complimentary statutes must exist at the state level to accomplish that. In CO, we tossed that out, so if federal authorities want federal cannabis law enforced here, they have to do it themselves.

Wisely, the Obama Admin has declined to even attempt such a foolish thing. Structural integration of personal growing in the state constitution sets that in stone. They don't have the resources allocated to take the place of local enforcement at that level, nor will they ever. There is no political will, no consensus to support it, either.

The only way that cannabis prohibition ever worked in this country is because it was universal, enforced at every level. And the only reason it could persist was through lies exploiting fear of the unknown. Nobody knew what legalized cannabis looked like or what the real consequences would be, until now. In CO, we're putting the truth out there, creating a reality immune to the fear of the unknown. The myths of prohibition simply can't stand against the reality of legalization. The cannabis cognoscenti have known that for decades & this is our big chance to prove it. We cracked that seamless edifice & have destroyed its structural integrity.

It doesn't help when there's fearmongering coming from our side, either- the GMO Monsanto boogeyman, the ebil gubmint weed boogeyman & the OMG lost genetics! boogeyman along with it.

We chose the "regulate it like alcohol" model for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that legalization of alcohol has provided consumers with enormous selection & choice simply not possible under prohibition. If I were still a drinker, I could go to a big liquor store & select from dozens of brands of spirits, hundreds of different beers & wines. I can legally brew my own beer & wine, too, if not make my own whiskey. Who doesn't want that for cannabis?

hush · Jun 11, 2014

shaggyballs · Jun 11, 2014

Jhhnn said:
Indeed. What few people seem to understand is that A64 was a brilliant & overwhelming attack on cannabis prohibition. CO legalization by constitutional amendment is basically permanent. When we pushed the issue, the Obama Admin told us to strut our stuff, and we are. We're dancing like Fred Astaire. Despite the naysaying, we're gonna be a hit everywhere.

Oh you mean permanent like our constitutional right to freedom of speech and our permanent right to bare arms.

Both of which are under attack at this very moment.

Check into it!!
Be informed!!
Do not believe what the government tells you as whole truth!
Find the truth for yourself!

hush · Jun 11, 2014

^ Are you a Tea Party member, shaggyballs?

shaggyballs · Jun 11, 2014

SeedsOfFreedom said:
This pretty much sums it up. You are breaking the law now, if they legalize without home growing allowed, just keep breaking the law.

I am not breaking the law where are you folks getting this from?This is called slander in real life.
I currently grow under my allowed plant count too!
If you vote to legalize you then make me a criminal!

It does seem like you have another motivation, profit perhaps?
How in the world do you come to this conclusion from what I have said...You cannot!

Once competition is fair and open, many wont keep up. Is this your worry shaggy?
NO where are these baseless accusations coming from?
If you feel confident about your grow skills, just get into the legal business.
I do not wish to enter a business.
I do not want to become a criminal either!

Please do not repress our rights as people. Marijuana prohibition is a stupid, racist, dishonest, and outdated idea.

Man you got it total backwards
I do not wish repress our rights as people.
You just are ignorant to the fact that legalization will repress our rights as people.
And I have given 2 real world exampls for proof.
What facts have you given..NONE

Decriminalization is just another word for prohibition, and it allows our justice systems to keep fucking undeserving people again and again. Just Legalize![/QUOTE

AS it would seem you are ignorant to the definition of decriminalization!

Here I will help you understand what the true meaning is!

Did you folks even read the post???
If you did you may want to re read it as your comprehension has failed you!

Decriminalization

Decriminalization reflects changing social and moral views. A society may come to the view that an act is not harmful, should no longer be criminalized, or is otherwise not a matter to be addressed by the criminal justice system.

shaggyballs · Jun 11, 2014

ElusiveQuark said:
If your hope solely to smoke a joint without getting hassled by the man, then we are on the right course. If you hope to grow your own or buy a seed or have access to all the strains that now exist, your future is bleak. A STRATEGY NEEDS TO BE FORMULATED NOW. If not, cannabis will be in the exact same situation as corn and soy beans. If they can do it to those crops they can do it to cannabis and are doing it. FYI Jhhh, doctrine of federal preemption applies and fed trumps state law when fed rules exist in area. Would require Us constitutional amendment or argument that it is covered under constitution already. Does anyone have info that such an argument has been successful? Situation in Canada is crazy scary. Progressive to repressive almost overnight. Research who the pkayers are that have been okayed to provide cannabis. Research Uraguay and ask why limit of 10!grams per week? Who are the parties helping with Uraguay experiment and now Canada. The dominoes are falling quickly. Also research which big breeders have already sold their catalogues to big business and why no disclosure to public? It's not enough to say legalize! Devils on the detals

At least this guy brings real world facts!

Again I challenge anyone to show real world proof legalization will not take right away from the people and give more power to the government

Read the post people!!
Stay informed !
Get the facts!
Just cause you do not like what I say does not make it False!
Real world facts are before you yet you just look away???

This is what legalization brought to canada.

I know it wont happen here.....NAW!

This was written by a Canadian National

Canada's whole medicinal cannabis market is already underground. Very few dispensaries even stay busy in today's age. There only trying to squash the whole Pimp My License bullshit that every Canadian with a card has been taking advantage of for years. Man every local 81 chapter in Canada has openly said they will under cut any medicinal market price set forth. Anyone that's really doing anything here in Canada is not really too worried what health canada's decision is in september, we were all doing this long before they made it legal. The government agencies don't give a fuck about anyone but them selves why do you think they market pain killers to the masses before cannabis, government officials don't go home and eat morphine they all go home and smoke cannabis or drink alcohol. They will do there best to try and control the cannabis industry but they will fail mark my words. I personally know over 100 mmar/mmpr patients not one buys from Health Canada or dispensaries. Every patient I know has personally told me they will just go back underground to produce on their own or back to the streets. Its gonna be interesting to say the least...

So lets make it legal so we can go back underground and be criminals again

Asslover · Jun 11, 2014

No laws or legislation have ever stopped ANY of us on icmag from growing, how is legalization going to change that? All those griping about big companies taking over blah blah blah, why would that stop you from growing your own? You know, like you're doing right now.
It's insane that anybody ever gets arrested for pot. Period. If legalization means that buying pot legally won't result in an arrest then I'm all for it.
Grow your own, like you've BEEN doing, and let others pay inflated prices for sub par weed.

shaggyballs · Jun 11, 2014

curbiechris said:
the legalization of cannabis will create more opportunities for EVERYONE no matter which way you cut it.

Did you not read the post?
Did you do some fact finding?
Oh ya more HOT AIR

a few growers will lose out and thats fine.Even if the go to prison? there will be more jobs for truck drivers, hvac specialists, electricians, and so on.

if you do not like that product that is pushed by the big growers, then grow your own. And go to prison!if it still illegal to grow your own, i am more than certain the penalty, if caught, will be severely less severe than it is now.
How can you say this are you helping to draft the laws....Oh ya more HOT AIR! for example, i am sure you need a license to brew beer, but if you did and were caught the penalty wouldn't be more than a fine. maybe.

i believe popcorn sutton was facing 18 months prison time, but he was brewing up thousands of gallons of hard liquor and was busted with a gun while on probation.
if i was busted with thousands of pounds of cannabis now with a weapon while on probation what do you think my sentence would be?
Decriminalization or decriminalisation is the abolition of criminal penalties in relation to certain acts, perhaps retroactively, though perhaps regulated permits or fines might still apply (for contrast, see: legalization). The reverse process is criminalization.

Decriminalization reflects changing social and moral views. A society may come to the view that an act is not harmful, should no longer be criminalized, or is otherwise not a matter to be addressed by the criminal justice system.

mainstream cannabis genetics might be altered. maybe for the better,You are a big fan of GMO food then ...HUH! but there is thousands of us that are preserving genetics, and with legalization they will be more accessible.
How did you come to that conclusion...Real world evidence shows different!

Read the post!

i salivate at the idea of trading special landrace NLD/sativa clones and seeds opening with others. with medical marijuana only legislation that does not seem as probable than with full on legalization.

Not gonna happen!
Did you read the post where the person talks about Europe controlling seeds and plants??
READ THE POST PLEASE!

the only people i see hurting from this are small time growers who are trying to make a profit.

This is the farthest thing from the truth!
Did you research this or is this just more HOT AIR!

if you want to profit then i would grow and sell as much as you can between now and the next 3 years illegally and take that illegal money and invest it all to legal cannabis ventures so you can compete with the big boys.

Read the post this is not about profit ..not one bit....why all the slander?

legalization is for the best for everyone.

Are you sure?
Please post real world facts!
Or keep blowing HOT AIR!
Please read the whole post
Then come back with Factual rebuttal Not HOT AIR!

shaggyballs · Jun 11, 2014

ElusiveQuark said:
I'm sorry to keep posting but I'm frustrated with this issue and how successful the big money machine has been in placating people w white noise. Re: statement that people will continue to grow illegally. The rules have changed when people were permitted to buy it legally. Do you understand the significance of this point? Its the crux of why there will be enforcement, not only criminally but also civilly. A several billion maybe hundreds if billion dollar market that had no recognized structure was opened to them. Suddenly Monsanto,DuPont, Pfizer, etc were given incentive to eliminate competition, especially personal and illegal growers. They also want as many potential consumers as possible. Their strategy to control supply has at least three components, all of which they used with devastating efficiency with corn, soy beans, sugar beets, etc. Between 90-100% of production of those crops worldwide is controlled by just a few companies. I think we can all agree that if such control can be placed on staple crops the world depends on to live they can likely do it to a nonstaple plant like cannabis. There are very few varieties of corn left and that number is shrinking. Here is how it happened

No reply to this???

shaggyballs · Jun 11, 2014

ElusiveQuark said:
1. They developed herbicide that killed all vegetation in an area.
2. They genetically modified corn so that it would be only thing that would grow.
3. They genetically modified corn so it could not reproduce sexually or through replication.
4. They created demand for their product by consuming ting huge tracts of land so their corn was only one that would grow. They also enlisted help of IMF, who lends money to economically distressed countries under a variety of conditions. In this case one condition was that borrowing nation would force use of the the modified seeds only and that licensing agreements would be signed by farmers agreeing to purchase new seeds every year from same company. Surprisingly, India's farmers found themselves tied to this system after a long history of more sustained farming enters they planted seeds from previous years crop w no need to buy new beans. The economic and social consequences in India were tremendous, resulting on huge number of suicides by farmers that couldn't break vicious debt cycle.

I'll finagle this in morning if anyone is interested because it's late and I need to decrompress

Any reply to this?
Real world facts are impossible to argue with....Hot air will work in a pinch!

Vote NO to legalize cannabis....Or else

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