GOT SLIME? Slime Haters Club (part 2 to Strange Slime build up on roots)

richyrich · Mar 23, 2014

GOT SLIME ???

So you got slimed... WELCOME TO THE SLIME HATERS CLUB

You have found the original source of the all things slime.

See your enemy below. Our enemy in common is the brown slime algae (aka: hydro herpe, snot slime, hydro nasty, slimy cyano, slime from hell, root mucous).

If you want your roots to look like the following then read on.

This thread is part 2 to the original thread Strange Slime build up on roots found at:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55259&page=2

That thread became too bloated. A consolidated version is contained here a few posts down.

Also, you can check out the counterpart thread THE ROT CLUB I started for all things root rot found at:

Can't tell if you have root rot or the brown slime algae, come on in ?!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=282319

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

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RICHYRICH 3-22-2014

This post begins the consolidation of my posts from my original slime club thread. I have also included a few posts of other members that I found important as part of the dialogue. If you truly want to know the beast (the slime) then read the entire original slime club thread in full. Otherwise, read this consolidation and you will learn enough to rid yourself of the slime and spread the word.

We have the pictures, the testimonials, and the proof that the slime can be beat and it does have a scientific name.

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The solution and everything you need to know about the dreaded hydro herpe correctly named brown slime algae (a misnomer because it's actually a cyanobacteria) is here and within this thread.

From 2007 thru 2009, the unknown snot slime was first correctly named and documented here, its source was first discovered and documented here, and the solution to defeating it was first discovered and documented here. If you think you are going crazy because you are slimed right now, imagine 5 LONG years of an unknown slime from hell wreaking havoc upon you. That's exactly what I went thru and I never gave up. At the time I had no website or forums to find the answers, nor anything on the slime. The only thread anywhere was this one started one month before I found it because they were all asking what this snot slime was themselves. I discovered what this slime from hell was and I discovered how to slay it.

I documented my quest here, so no other person shall have to suffer the untold misery it can cause. I would wish this on no person. I was gone from here a good long while and I have seen how the discoveries here have gone wide and far because it works wonders. I should have known hydro/garden manufacturers and retailers would take advantage of this thread. I have seen them selling teas of the same recipe and crazy expensive contraptions to brew tea. All you need is a $3 dollar five gallon bucket and my original tea recipe or one of the others you will find within.

Don't get fooled by the manufacturers and retailers. Little do they know I have been a busy bee while I've been gone for the past few years. I didn't stop just because I had finally beat the slime. Among many things, I have awesome customized tea recipes strictly for hydro systems and my own gizmos that do much more than just brew tea. When the time is appropriate and I have protected my discoveries this time, I will present them.

The original slime club thread is epic, so do read through the entire thread when you can if you want to know all the details and other ways to deal with this dreaded problem, and other problems too. You will have no further questions once you read it all. This will be one of, if not the best thread about growing mmj you will have ever read.

An immense amount of credit is due to all the other icmag members that contributed their blood, sweat, tears, and time, so let's give credit where credit is due. <<< space reserved to list icmag members due credit by screen name >>> As for me, you can thank me by posting your success stories and before and after pictures. Those type of posts are truly satisfying. There are a lot of pictures and success stories contained within this thread. The results with an EZ Cloner are nothing short of amazing. You will learn a lot and that's a promise.

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The following pictures are of your enemy the brown slime algae (aka: hydro herpe, snot slime, hydro nasty, slimy cyano, slime from hell, root mucous).

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You must get your yourself a bottle of Physan20. To sterilize and clean your system and equipment use Physan20 at 3mL per 25gallons. Unscented regular bleach is fine if you do not have Physan20, but do get it asap.When you have a crop that is on life support and you think it might be salvageable, you can run Physan20 (not bleach) through a hydro system with plants in it. Run it through the system for no more than 6 hours and dump it, then flush with clean water, and then make a new rez. That is how you sterilize your system from the slime and everything else.

The next step is to make a compost/ewc tea according to my recipe. You can use the tea in hydro systems, rockwool, soil, coco, etc.. All plant types and all types of growing media benefit tremendously. Besides keeping away the slime, we are replicating mother nature by attempting to provide all the beneficial microbes that are found naturally in soil.

Okay, now on to the RichyRich Hydro Tea Recipe and Instructions:

1. Put 4 gallons of RO water or bottled water in a 5 gallon bucket.
2. Add an air stone to the bucket with an air pump.
3. Any pump is fine.
4. If you only have tap water, bubble the tap water for 24 hours with the air stone to get rid of the chlorine.
5. The chlorine will kill the good microbes you are attempting to brew.
6. Add the following to the bucket directly or put it in a sock, nylon, mesh bag, etc. and hang it into the bucket.
7. Add 2 to 3 handfuls (or cups) of earth worm castings or Ancient Forest which is even better or go for a mix of both.
8. Add 25mL of liquid carbo load or molasses per 24 hours of planned brew time.
9. As an alternative use 1tsp of powder carbo load or brown cane sugar per 24 hours of planned brew time.
10. Add 1/2 to 1 scoop of ZHO powdered microbes.
11. Add 1/2 to 1 scoop of Great White powdered microbes.
12. Add 5mL of Root Excelurator.
13. add 30 to 100mL of Aquashield
14. Bubble your brew for 24-48 hours and no longer.
15. Separate the solids with cheese cloth, a t-shirt, etc. and put in a clean container.
16. When it is brewing you will see frothing usually by the 12th hour.
17. The frothing indicates you have active good microbes growing.
18. When the frothing diminishes that means your microbes are about done with their food (the sugar product you added).
19. That is good and is where you want to be.
20. You do not want to be adding any unused sugar remaining in your brewed tea when you add the tea to the rez.
21. That unused sugar will be a food source for the slime.
22. You must fridge your left over brewed tea.
23. You can fridge your tea for 7 to10 days.
24. Always give your tea a sniff test before you add it to your rez.
25. If your tea ever smells rank then get rid of it.
26. Your tea should smell earthy.
27. Don't worry about screwing up your tea mixture.
28. It's almost fool proof as long as you do not add too much of a sugar product.
29. For a new fresh rez you will add tea at a rate of 1 to 3 cups per 10 gallons.
30. In between rez clean outs you will add 1 cup of tea per 10 gallons every 3rd day to replenish the microherd army.
31. During a rez clean out, do not dump out your entire rez because you will keep 1 gallon per 10 gallons unless your rez is infected.
32. Make your new rez preferably with all chem ferts and not organic ferts.
33. Do not use enzyme products such as hygrozyme, sensizyme, etc. as these break down dead organic matter which are a known source of food (jet fuel) for the brown slime algae.
34. You can use the zyme products and organic ferts once you become more advanced.
35. Do not add sugar products such as carbo load directly to your rez unless you want to cause a slime explosion.
36. Remember to keep it simple (KISS: keep it simple stupid).
37. Don't over think everything or it will drive you crazy.
38. Last, enjoy explosive white furry roots and massive yields.

Click on the pictures to enlarge and see the recipe products and a frothy batch of tea brewing.

Don't worry about precision and having every product in the recipe. If you were to make a tea with just earth worm castings and molasses to get by until you can get the rest of the products, you will do okay. The main thing you are attempting to do is provide a plentiful amount of good microbes to outplace the bad microbes and especially the slime from getting a foothold and taking over your system and/or rez.

For those of you that prefer to grow in a dead rez, that is growing completely sterile, you will find how to do that within this thread. I also found success with UV lighting to combat the slime and there are additional success stories too. Going sterile as such is effective but I advocate using my tea recipe and instructions instead because nothing is better than getting close to replicating mother nature. With tea, the plants are more hardier, more resistant to stress, and the root masses get much much larger. In short the roots are amazing. A larger root mass equals a larger yield!

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

The following pictures are of my roots that were given this magical tea. The water temps did not matter. I cloned with temps at 84 degrees F. Some members here got away with temps up to 87-89 degrees F. That is a certain death sentence for cuts/clones in an ez cloner without the tea.

This is a tea treated ez cloner at day 5.

This is the same cloner at day 6.

And the cloner at day 8. People state they get roots in 5-7 days too without the tea, but we haven't seen any pictures to see how big the root mass is.

This is a tea treated DWC net pot system. This was day 3 after putting the clones in the net pot from the cloner.

This is a tea treated medium less hydro system with net pots. This was day 5 after putting the clones in the net pot from the cloner.

No product on the current market can compete with these results!!! The hydro/garden manufacturers and retailers do not have any expensive bottles of snake oil that can do what happens to roots with the tea recipe. No matter how tempted you get by those pretty bottles because they state it does something spectacular and you think its going to slay the slime, its not going to happen.

Most of those pretty bottles are jet fuel and make for slime explosions. I've been there done that. Don't get tempted. Keep your head straight and follow the instructions you find here to the T. There are no short cuts. Don't go tweaking things because your heads spinning and you are pulling your hair out. I've been slime free for 5 years now, after 5 years of slime hell, so
you can do it too.

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

The following are more pictures of your enemy the slime I gathered from here and there.

[/

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

Reserved for more slime pictures.

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

Reserved

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

These pictures are root rot also known as pythium. This is not the slime. Learn to know the difference.

These show root rot setting in.

And these are full blown root rot.

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

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03-22-2014, 10:22 AM #1229
richyrich

Originally Posted by Zeusdog
It's an honor to finally post a worthy message on this thread...what I consider to be one of the best threads out there on DWC and Brown slime...(the other good one is by Heisenburg which I will post this there also).

I have tried:
...
-tea (Heisenberg's recipe),
...

... But the one that did work extremely well (for me, yours may be different) was AQUASHILED from Botanicare (this was part of Heisneburg's recipe...

I think Heisenburg's tea works great but it's like a fragmentation grenade...

Originally Posted by mojave green
http://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubblepo...-cure-aka.html

Originally Posted by Inspired333
Have you tried making a "tea"; look up "heisenberg ewc tea" (youtube vid by dr. scanderson or something like that or thread on rollitup).
It's a simple tea that you can brew for really cheap. It's comprised of; a mychorrizae (your choice - any will do), a small amount of "botanicare aquashield", and some earthworm castings or alaskan humus all mixed in a bucket with some dechlorinated water.
You brew it up with the strongest air pump you have for 24-36 hours and apply it (add to res and/or root crown if you want to) and it decimates the slime. Search for it online.
Good luck.

Click to expand...

I followed that link. I'm going to assume that neither of you read back very far in this thread. I know this thread is super long. That's why I'll be consolidating it. Have any of you realized that the purported heisenberg tea is nothing more than the tea and instructions I posted here in this thread several years ago and a couple of years before this heisenberg began that thread at rollitup.org.

Sharing information is all good. I haven't been on here for a couple of years. I got directed here by my fellow growers because they said they thought what was going on was kind of shady. I read through the thread over there.

What I see is that this guy heisenberg started a thread at rollitup.org after this thread died out in 2010. This thread started here in 2007. What I found surprising was that so many things he stated were right out of my mouth from here in this thread and even verbatim. You can look right down at my signature and also go back in time in this thread.

I guess the shady part my friends were talking about is that he allowed people to give him credit, did not correct anyone, did not give a link to the source, and even named the tea recipe after himself which I shared here and fellow icmagers put my name to it somewhere in this thread.

I think you can put it this way. It's like that guy who gets an awesome clone of a new strain that a breeder puts out and the guy goes around giving it away to everyone and allows everyone to name it after him and praise him without correction.

Anyway, I got directed here and it had to be said to set the record straight. Moving along...

I want to get this thread bumping again. Like I posted earlier, I'll be around for a while to host your questions but hopefully you will read first.

I did a google search on brown slime algae and omg, the lessons of this thread have gone far. It's crazy how many people have and get this slime. I was desperate and there were no answers anywhere when I started my quest in 2007. Nobody even had a correct name for the slime.

Wrangle people in and direct them here to this thread. The threads about the slime at other websites are not complete. People are still asking questions easily found here.

That heisenberg post is pretty good because its parroting from this thread, but it's still lacking and I didn't even see any pictures. They need help and nobody should have to suffer with the slime when all the answers are here.

The slime will make you age fast and want to run over your hydro equipment with a truck. That's no joke. That was said in this thread.

I'm going to start by searching for slime threads here at icmag.com and then venture out to other websites to corral the discussion here where it started.

And to everybody, I want to hear your success stories and better yet, share your before and after pictures with us all. That is all the gratitude I need

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05-02-2007, 03:05 AM #18
richyrich

A week ago, I had to scrap a grow that I was trying to save. I have been battling the rot for a long time. Its always there. I have the whole nine yards, chiller and all. I have use root exlecurator and hydroguard with good results, but its always around.

Now I think I may have been overwatering all this time. I use hydroton in a flood and drain every 4 hours. I have tried all variable hours of timing and cant get it right. Some say you cant overwater with hydroton, bullshit because I always get rotten roots.

So, get this. Last week I dose with hygrozyme to have the enzymes eat up all the dead roots (rot food). Two days later, my pH keeps creeping up and up and up. I check out my contiuous PH probe and its covered with this snot you guys are talking about. Thick snot, brown and clear. I lift out my pumps and the screens are covered with this shit. Two days is all it took. The only thing I did prior was add the Hygrzyme.

So, I start a new grow. Bleach everthing. Take apart pumps, new tubing, all bases covered. Using RO water and drum is light proof. Using a 55 gallon drum with chiller at 65 and light proof. Got an additional pump on the bottom of the res to recirculate and I have a huge air pump connected to it. My resevoir is churning like river rapids. Using only advanced nutes, no organics, and root excelurator, great stuff, and some hydroguard. Changed over to flood and drain 5 gallon buckets of new hydroton. Started flooding at every 4 hours, vegging still. Too much, develop some rot when I checked one plant. Now flooding every 8 hours, seems to be working. Well now I have some brown roots from flooding too often. So, to eat up the dead roots and deprive the root rot of food, I think to add Hygorzyme to eat it up. Today I check and that snot shit is collecting on my probe again. It just started collecting because I just added it last night and have been checking. My pH started to creep up again and I was like ahh shit, again. I have to do a flush and change out to try and save this grow now. I have used Hygrozyme plenty of times before without this happening.

What is up with this Hygrozyme. I have proven that it has caused this snot slime. And what is this snot. I read somewhere that it is actually a fungus.

I was wondering if Hygrozyme is organic in nature and if it gets ruined some how, does it help feed the rot since it is now inactive. I just bought this bottle two weeks ago from a busy shop. Can't figure it out.

Just changed the resevoir and added H2O2 and only advanced nutes.

Instead of the Physan 20, wouldnt the H2O2 kill off everything including this supposed algae.

I had a chiller set at 65, tons of bubbles and recirculation, lots of hydroguard, house and garden root excelurator, chemical nutes (no organics), all light blocked, room at 77 degrees, RO water. Plants that came from my veg room in absolute perfect health. Two freakin days this crap grew all over. How with all listed above. How can anything bad live in my sytems conditions. I put max dose of hydroguard. How can anything compete to live with that much oxygen and beneficial bacterias.????????

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05-05-2007, 09:18 PM #23
richyrich

BROWN ALGAE!!!!!!!! It's our problem. I dont think folks here know that it is not root rot. There is not much info here. I just read your whole thread on your issues. Nothing gets rid of it. Right now I my pH is slowly rising every day. No sign of the slime, but I know its around because of the pH. I have always used RO water and my pH always stays rock solid until I changed to flood buckets and to a different resevoir.

Research the brown algae on the net. You will find that it likes organics and dont even need much light if any. Most advice for root rot is not going to cut it. Most info on brown algae is gonna be found along with aquarium talk. I am gonna find the physan 20 and try that. Also, the aquarium talk says to use antibiotics. Its algae, not root rot. Disregard all info for root rot because it is gonna drive you crazy. I have had a chiller always this whole time set at 64-65. Rot dont live in that. It is algae. BROWN ALGAE. Its a mother f**cker.

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05-06-2007, 05:39 AM #28
richyrich

Physan 20 or Triple Action.
5ml per 52 gallons.

There should be a whole thread dedicated to this crap, brown algae. It mimics root rot and hundreds of us probably think it is. Its an algae that almost seems impossible to get rid of. I know root rot is an umbrella meaning for any root disease which is always mostly bacterial.

There needs to be a clear distinctions between this brown algae and general bacterial or fungal caused root rot. This algae can thrive in lots of oxygen and poor or minimal light and likes to eat on organics. Do a google on it.

H2O2 35%
sm90
root excelurator
hydorguard
sensizyme
hygrozyme
pirahna
sub culture
voodoo juice
zone
water chiller
massive bubbles

did it all and didnt work. For the last year I have been battling what I thought was root rot. Now, when I think about it, it was from not light proofing my 55 gallon blue drum that holds my new filtered RO water. Tainted water every res change. What a bitch.

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05-06-2007, 07:03 AM #29
richyrich

This is what grows in less than 24 hours. This was after a bath of 2ml per gallon of 35% H2O2. It looks like a brown loogie. Its thick and slimy. Does not pull apart easily. I would say this fits the meaning of brown slime algae. Notice it looks like jelly or the loog. Its not no settling of nutes. I use advanced nutes, no organics. For some reason it likes to first grow on my probe. The probe dangles about half way in the drum. It does not touch the bottom. I cant wait to order physan. I am gonna go to Petco and buy some algaecide and see what happens.

Just think brown loogie as you look at these.

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05-06-2007, 03:36 PM #31
richyrich

10 hours ago, adjusted ph to 5.7, now its already up to 6.3. This is RO water, TDS is not moving. Chiller at 67. Advanced Nutes and House and Garden Root Excelurator only. If you haven't heard of Root Excelurator, its kinda new to the market and is easily the best new product of the last few years. It is the best for root rot and roots grow unbelievably with this stuff.
It's not working on this algae crap.

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05-07-2007, 03:31 PM #38
richyrich

Just got the Physan right now. If you have an Armstrong Garden Center around, $10.

The aquarium stuff didnt seem to do anything. PH still drifting up to quickly with RO water and no drop in TDS. Means, algae still alive.

This should be the last front. Hopefully my black thumb turns back to green.

This Physan 20 is an algaecide, bactericide, virudice and fungidice. All the hydro nasties. I expect nothing to be alive after this dose and treatment except the plants. If this dont work, start believing in curses.

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05-07-2007, 08:21 PM #40
richyrich

In my case, I do not. I tried carbo load one time and that was a mistake. If you have any nasties unkown in your system, you will set off a bomb when you add that stuff. System better be dialed in before using.

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05-07-2007, 10:30 PM #43
richyrich

I believe I have been suffering algae blooms of brown slime algae. When an algae bloom starts, good fuckin luck. Ever heard of a red tide. That is an algae bloom that kills everything, especially in a lake.

Nothing stops it, except maybe this Physan 20. Will find out soon. Ph has been stable thus far and the foam keeps on bringing up crap.

If all the rest of you want a good product to protect your roots, prevent root rot and make your roots grow the craziest I have ever seen.

ROOT EXCELURATOR by House and Garden. Kinda new to the market. Around 80 bucks for the smallest bottle. It will catch on soon. It is the shit.

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05-09-2007, 09:33 PM #46
richyrich

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Ph still steady. I am currently going to continue this grow with SM90 and H2O2. Looks like things are gonna work out. So, far Physan 20 gets the big thumbs up.

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05-10-2007, 04:44 AM #50
richyrich

I used it for less than 24 hours and dumped the resevoir. It works quick. It has been a couple of days since I used it. Now I can see my girls may have been a little stressed by it. When you have a bad pH problem that starts showing nute deficieny problems is what it looks like. You dont want to keep them in this very long.

Now, pH is stable. With RO water, that tells me everything is OK, so far. I could go beneficials. If I did I would go with the Root Excelurator. I will say again that it is the shit. Not much info on it here. Its a newer product and is pricey. To play it safe, Im going to run this grow out with SM90 and 1ml per gallon of 35% H2O2 every other day. Plus, SM90 smells so good.

When you want to save a grow and have to disinfect, this is the ticket. It gets rid of everything including this damn algae which is a whole new ball game. THe amounts of H2O2 needed to kill the algae would of killed my plants and bleach is an obvious no, no. This is the ticket. It only cost $8.99. 5ml per 52 gallons, one bottle will last forever. Time to buy stock in this stuff. There aint enough info on it here. If I only would have known about it a year ago, how much work, money, frustration and agony I would of been saved from. Thanks to this wonderful site and Overgrow (RIP), I was doing everything right and always got root rot. My best theory now is that I always had this algae that suffocated my roots and then they rotted, hence the root rot. I had tried everything for root rot with no success. TO the point of swearing to never grow again. What a learning lesson. I felt compelled to post away with pics here when I would otherwise never do because of my extreme gratitude.

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07-08-2007, 01:14 PM #68
richyrich

I started using Dutch Master Zone as a protective additive. It is a derivative of chlorine and kills all nasties from growing and lasts a long while in the resevoir. So, if you want the benefits of tap water, because of the chlorine, you can use Zone with your RO water. But, you cannot use beneficials.

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09-04-2007, 03:12 AM #89
richyrich

Wow, I forgot all about this thread. Glad you all benefited by learning that this slime crap was actually brown algae. I feel you jarff. I went hell bent to figure out what this stuff was. I tried everything, really everything. Physan20 is better than bleach for cleaning. Zone is the best for running sterile. Root Excelurator is best for running beneficials. Hygrozyme does seem to help get the slime going. Running water at 65F and below will not stop the slime. Use 1ml per 10 gallons of Physan20 in a hydro system with plants.

After figuring it out and using everything available, would you believe I got it again. The **** will make you go crazy. I said **** it and had to do away with the re-circulating system. Feed to waste and you will have no problems. You don't need a chiller, no more PPM adjustments and no more chasing the pH.

The **** is like herpes for hydro. It just pops up when it wants to.

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09-04-2007, 08:18 PM #91
richyrich

Everything is good since going feed to waste. I use just about the same amount of nutes I did in the recirculating res. each week.

I hand water every 2nd or 3rd day, its a breeze. Beats going in the grow and checking twice a day because of all the problems for the last couple of years. When I get to it, I will make a drip to waste. Then I can really kick back and go in once a week like it should of been. Just like you said, I have so many parts and equipment, I could just do it now. I have so much stuff it's unbelievable because if this crap.

I highly recommend the feed to waste. All you will need are base nutes and beneficials. No more H202, Zone, SM-90, Hydroguard and enzymes. You can go back to all of your additives too and not have to worry about them sparking off any algae or actual bad bacteria root rot since a lot of them just feed these buggers.

Yup, feed to waste is the way. It was the only way I could stop the hydro herpes.

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09-09-2007, 04:41 AM #94
richyrich

Yep, I think people here have taken notice of this brown algae. I have seen several posts actually discussing this algae and then leading back to this thread. It surely deserves attention because I couldn't figure it out until, well, you have all seen what I posted in this thread. I know it will help a lot of people.

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09-09-2007, 04:57 AM #95
richyrich

BROWN ALGAE

THE HERPES OF HYDRO

The brown funk in person.

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09-09-2007, 05:08 AM #96
richyrich

I stated previously, it does not need very much light and it likes organics. I had everything light proofed and still had it. I was using non-organics, but when using Hygrozyme, what do you think all the old root mass turns into when the enzymes break it down. Food for the algae and its organic. One time I added CarboLoad, and there was a damn explosion in my res.. Again, that additive feeds these critters.

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09-09-2007, 02:32 PM #98
richyrich

From my heavy experience with this stuff, I will say.

If anybody gets this brown algae, you have to get Physan20 immediately. 1ml per 10 gallons of water. Dump straight into resevoir. Leave it in for 24 hours and then dump, flush and make a new resevoir. Even after this, it will still be in your system, the spores. To completely get it out of your hydro system would be a complete tear down and soaking in bleach or Physan20. Even then, as I have found out, you may not be rid of it for good. The spores are so small we cant even see them. My room must of been filled with them because I still was getting it. I did the whole bleach wipe down and all in my room. I even put an ozone generator in the room for days to kill everything inside. Ozone is supposed to kill spores. At least that is what they say. When I say I tried everything, I really did.

I will tell you one thing I am still doing in my mother hydro system. My mothers are still in a ebb n flow tray. The mothers are healthy. But, the brown algae is very much alive in the resevoir. Out of trying everything, the only thing that will contain it is Dutch Master Zone. I have everything else and it did no good. Even 35% H2O2 is no good. So, to this day I still use Hygrozyme in that system to break down old root mass on the mothers and Dutch Master Zone and Sensi A + B only. The algae is under control. Also, chiller has the water set at 65F. This is the only way I have found to contain it.

For flowering, I am salvaging a grow as usual because I started in DWC re-circulating. on the 3rd week the hydro herpes popped up. I switched over to a mix of coco, peat moss, and pearlite. The plants are just now recovering and they look very perky and are greening up. That tells me the roots are healthy and happy. I will see what comes of it because they were already in flower.

I have clones about ready to pop real soon. They will go into the same coco, peat moss and perlite mix. No hydro at all for them. Feed to waste from the get go. I have high expectations now.

I too used CarboLoad the liquid kind. Never again. Its like elmers glue. Another thing to stay away from is Barricade, like glue too and makes the pH go crazy.

And, did you notice that in the tidbit I posted above, brown algae usually strikes aquariums beginning in the 2nd week of newly established aquariums. When I would start my new hydro systems, it would take hold on the second and third week when I would notice it. I think it has some correlation there. And you may have some good reasoning to hold off on some of the additives until the plants are established to fend off the algae from getting a foot hold.

Another thing mentioned is that it likes silicates. There are silicates in a lot of additives out there. For one the Barricade i just mentioned. I believe it is Potassium Silicate. The additive is supposed to protect your roots. What a laugh. When I tried it, it probably just fed the damn algae even more.

Thinking back, what a nightmare. I am on the bandwagon with dumping the additives. A lot of it is just marketing and companies wanting to take your money. I will list what I would buy and have stocked up.

Any base nutes and if you go organic be careful.
Root excelurator for beneficials
Hydroguard is good and cheap for protection if everything else is in line
If you use either of these bacterial additives, dont use tap water, you will kill them, get RO water.
A chiller if you cant get temps under 70F for hydro
Dutch Master Zone if you want to go sterile
A bottle of Physan20 for sure. Use this instead of bleach. Can be used in the resevoir and for clean up.
A flavor booster like Floralicious.
A bloom booster like Big Bud.
And if you want the best additive of them all, add a CO2 system to your grow.

Thats about it. Its too bad I own half a hydro store in supplies myself. I dont even know what to do with it all. Maybe I will go feed all the plant outside. With all these nutes and additives, it might be a jungle out there in a week. Better than sending it all down the drain.

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09-10-2007, 11:52 PM #101
richyrich

Re-read my last post for the amount of Pyan to use. I stated in this thread several times. As far as using it the whole flower period, I don't know. When I called the company that makes Pysan, the lady on the phone said you could. I didn't want to try and find out. I think you will be the first if you do it. Let us know. Something tells me it will be ok. And, if it is this product will be the absolute best additive for a sterile resevoir. And its super cheap.

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09-11-2007, 03:44 PM #104
richyrich

Yes, SM-90 cannot be used with beneficials. Also, don't use Zone, H2O2, Physan20 and I wouldn't use tap water because of the chlorine. These all will kill your beneficials.

H2O2 can be used with enzyme products such as Hygrozyme, Sensizyme and the others that I cant think of. Actually, you can use all sterile additives listed above with all enzymes and H2O2.

All enzyme products can be use together with beneficial products; Hydroguard, Root Excelurator, Pirahna, Scorpion Juice, Mycorrhizae, Sub-Culture and the rest. Absolutely no sterile products with these.

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09-14-2007, 01:08 PM #111
richyrich

The consensus in this thread is that Hygrozyme certainly plays a part in helping or even starting the brown algae. I have been following other threads where people are using the Hygrozyme in soil or non-recirculating rez's and are having great results. It has to be something do with the broken down material. It's herpe food. I, also, say in a recirculating rez use Hygrozyme with caution and only use it for a few days to do its job and then dump the rez. Refill rez with no Hygrozyme after. That is what I conclude after 2 years of battling this crap. I do not have it in my BioTerrra feed to waste room and now its gone in my mother recirculating NFT/drip system. Fingers crossed for now.

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09-14-2007, 01:35 PM #113
richyrich

In my opinion, Zone is the best product out there for keeping a sterile rez..

I don't know what your white chunks are. What are you adding to your rez. Without knowing anything else, I would dump that rez and then add plain water so you can h2O2 everything for a few hours. Then I would fill your rez as normal and add the Zone at 1.1 ml per gallon.

It's important to know what kind of water you are using. If its tap, you can get pH swings, but they shouldn't be to quick.

Another thing, if you have a single WaterFarm, the rez is not very big and that will cause quick pH fluctuations if you have a very thirsty plant. When this happens, the pH usually goes down though.

Give more info on what you have in your rez. and your water temperature.

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09-16-2007, 06:54 PM #117
richyrich

Yup, this is turning out to be quite a club. I never thought so many people would be experiencing the same problem. Before I got control of it, I thought I was the only person cursed with it. For years I searched for answers and was always given the same ol' root rot deal and what to do for it.

I have no problems and everything is quite easy for me now. Though, I am still interested in finding a way to beat the brown algae with beneficials. So far all the ones sold by hydro companies don't do squat crap. What bacterias are you speaking of. I too have looked toward aquarium and aquaponics chat boards for answers. Didn't really find anything to beat it off. Such as beneficial bacterias fending off bad bacteria (root rot). I just went after complete neutralization with Physan20 or containment with Zone.

Keep us posted on your work. This algae still intrigues me.

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09-17-2007, 04:31 PM #119
richyrich

Ha, this is getting really funny now. We are gonna have to come up with a design and visit the silk screener.

Glad to hear it worked for you. You might consider the Dutch Master Zone to contain the algae. It has worked good for me. But, I think you will be the first to use the Physan weekly if you do. Do let us know how it goes at the haters club.

Oh, and on water temps; the algae was growing still when I had my chiller dead locked on 62F. Water temps don't really keep it away. Now if we talk about the root rot that is cause by bad bacteria, not algae, then water temps are very important. Just my experience.

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09-17-2007, 06:29 PM #122
richyrich

I feel like running an experiment. I put my EZ cloners away because of water heat and constant failure. I kept on getting funk killing my cuts in the EZ with high temps. I'm gonna run the EZ with Physan all the way through and see what happens.

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09-21-2007, 08:28 AM #126
richyrich

For those of you who have been following my posts, check out the proof in the pudding. Since I changed over my mother hydro set up I began to notice some blue green algae. You know the usual kind you can get rid of by blocking the light. It was on my tray for about two days because I changed my drain fitting and it is raised, so I need to grind it down some. Anyway, the tray was puddling for the last few days. So, check this out below. If you have read the little bit of info I posted about brown algae, such as it does not need much light and it will overtake blue green algae, then look below. Because, it did exactly that.

Yup, you see some green in there. Yeah, it was all blue green algae until now. The brown algae has taken over. Yes, that is brown. Here is a closer picture.

Even though my mothers are thriving and I previously posted I thought it was gone so far, yeah right. I told you it is the hydro herpes. From my own mouth earlier, you can only contain it so much and only with Zone. I am gonna have to do another Physan20 blast and flush. It's only containable at this point for me. Got to live with it like the herps. I guess we can consider Zone the Valtrex of the hydro meds. You know that stupid herpe commercial that is seen 10 times a day.

That is as brown as it gets. Notice the green algae contrasting with the brown algae. I think that there is some concrete proof.

Live on brown algae haters club.

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09-26-2007, 11:26 PM #137
richyrich

Think of the Zone as a preventative measure and the Physan as a destroyer if you get it. You need to make sure your environment is clean and your water temps below 70 before anything else. Zone will only keep it contained. Physan will eradicate it but it does come back.

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09-27-2007, 12:20 PM #139
richyrich

When I first was looking into the Physan I called the company and the lady I spoke to said it was safe to use in a hydro rez..When I use it I don't completely flush it out of my rez before I refill it after the drain. So, some residual Physan is still in my rez after and it hasn't caused any harm at all.

Those black worms you had are most likely fungus knat larvae. Go and get mosquito dunks at Home Depot. Should cost you about $5. Break one in half and dissolve it in warm water. Spread over your roots and then put the rest in your rez.. It is a biological way to kill them that works. Also, get some yellow sticky papers to catch the flying ones. After a weeks time you might want to drop a pyrethin fogger in the room. That is how I got rid of them in the past.

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10-24-2007, 10:20 AM #157
richyrich

Physan will do that. It gets all the hidden funk out. I posted pics earlier in this thread showing the same thing when I thought everything was sterile after bleaching.

Now you have to make sure your water temps are under 70-72F max. If you can get them lower its even better. Once the temps are under control you have to use preventative measures. That is when DM Zone comes into play. You can try other things as discussed earlier in this thread.

The most important thing you should know is that this could come back. After figuring everything out I still ditched the recirculating hydro. I feed to waste now in a coco blend medium and things are great. I figured my room was infested with algae spores that will always be around because it kept on coming back. So, just know that once slimed, you can always get it again and its not the products like Physan and Zone not doing what they are supposed to.

Control temps.
Physan 20 everything
Go sterile with DM Zone or use a beneficial micro herd (good bacteria and fungi)
Watch out on the organic nutes and stay away from all the Bull S*** additives.

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10-29-2007, 10:08 PM #167
richyrich

I can tell you I tried just about every beneficial product out there and when the algae wanted to strike back, no beneficial was gonna stop it. Keep in mind I had everything in the arsenal to try to beat it. I own 4 water chillers that I don't even use anymore. I own so much un-needed equipment because of my nearly 2 year battle with the algae. You can say I just about tried everything. I had my rez's set at 65F and this algae was still hanging around. The colder temps keep it at bay but it is just waiting to make an all out attack.

My thoughts are once you get it you are screwed. It will not go away completely. The algae spores get everywhere and there is no sure way to get rid of them. The only thing to do is move to another grow site with all new equipment and hope you don't get it there.

I don't worry at all anymore. Feed to waste and no problems. Same site and equipment and no algae. Water chillers are collecting dust because I don't even have to worry about water temps anymore. No more chasing the pH everyday. It's great now. Mix a batch of nutes every 3rd or 4th day, feed and that's it. Two times in the room each week instead of everyday to check up. Soooooooo much easier now.

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10-30-2007, 05:04 PM #172
richyrich

I'll give you my thoughts on Hygrozyme.

The product breaks down materials and makes them available to the plants. I've noticed that dead root parts and leaves that fell in my rez's in the past would disappear into a sludge like substance. This was the Hygrozyme in action, breaking stuff down. Now, from what I have previously said about being careful with organics fueling the algae, the Hygrozyme is breaking down the materials which are organic and feeding the algae. Then boom algae explosion with all the new found organic food. That is my theory on it.

I only use Hyrozyme in soil now or feed to waste only. You do not want to use it in a re-circulating rez.

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01-07-2008, 09:24 PM #184
richyrich

Algae problems will make the ph go up. "Root Rot" meaning caused by bad bacteria or fungi will make your ph go down. Both types of problems will make your roots brown and dead. Zone is a great product, but if your temps are not in range you will still have problems. What are your exact water temps? No guesses. I use a little $10 digital aquarium thermometer to take readings.

Glad to see that a lot of you guys are benefiting from this.

I have changed my style to organic hydro. Coco, peat moss and perlite blends with organic bottled nutes. I feed them just like if I were growing in soil. Feed to waste and I don't have to worry about water temps or any kind of algae, bacteria or fungi problems. I could hit myself over the head for not changing up my style a long time ago. I find this way to be so much easier and yields are up to par.

Even though I know how to beat every plague now, my garden is forever infested with algae spores. I cannot go back to straight hydro. It's just like getting mold or pm. Read the threads about how they can never get rid of it after they get it. It's the spores.

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02-28-2008, 02:06 AM #203
richyrich

I haven't been here for a while but I previously posted a lot on this subject earlier. If you read trough all of my posts with pictures you will see all the hell I went through and I tried a lot of things over 2 years. Do you want to know what to do now. I have been bit by the hydro herpes as I call it and there is a 90% chance you will never get rid of the spores at your location. Here it is.

You need to go to feed to waste with a medium of your choice. This is what I do now and I have pearly white fuzzy roots. What a change of pace for once. It was rough trying to figure out what the hell was happening but I did figure it out once I ran into this post. One person early on mentioned algae and I started to research heavily. I found most of the info in aquarium chat rooms. That is when I found that it was a brown algae and not the typical blue-green variety that needs light. Brown algae don't need no light. An arduous journey it was for me and now it is over finally.

You are infected with the hydro herp. I recommend no more recirculating resevoirs. Use at your risk. Go feed to waste and then the plants cannot infect each other.

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03-13-2008, 06:13 PM #213
richyrich

I believe Zone is a derivative of chloramine. Something like that. Kinda works like the chlorine in tap water. Somewhere way back in the thread I think I posted it. It helps keep it at bay at best. Will still be there waiting to take a foot hold. Good luck all.

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04-01-2008, 01:22 PM #222
richyrich

An endospore is a dormant, tough, and non-reproductive structure produced by a small number of bacteria from the Firmicute phylum. The primary function of most endospores is to ensure the survival of a bacterium through periods of environmental stress. They are therefore resistant to ultraviolet and gamma radiation, desiccation, lysozyme, temperature, starvation, and chemical disinfectants. Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time. Some bacteria produce exospores or cysts instead.

That is why I have said once you get it you will always have it. At least, in the same room or place. Once infected you cannot get rid of the spores. I tried and I tried and if you read back you will see me saying this. Feed to waste is the only way after that if you want no hassles. Otherwise, you will always be just containing it with other measures such as Zone. All of my trial and error concluded that Zone was the best containment product but I still had hassles.

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04-02-2008, 11:06 AM #227
richyrich

It could get rid of it but so does H202 and other things. But those spores you know. Evolved over millions to billions of years to stand up to anything as previously posted. Somebody find me a way to kill spores short of a nuclear bomb. I doubt that may even work. Can't a cockroach survive the bomb?

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04-05-2008, 06:25 PM #230
richyrich

Red Slime Algae and Cyanobacteria in General

bar

As you can see the classification is quite complex and numerous orders (families) exist and within each of them I have only listed a few representative ones.

Note that not all of the ones mentioned occur in saltwater and that some are free floating and non benthic. The free floating ones are removed by skimming mostly. The benthic ones are the ones that attach to rock, glass, acrylic, sand and anything else in the aquarium, including other types of algae.

The simplest forms of cyanobacteria are the unicellular ones (Chroococcales). They reproduce by binary fission (splitting in two, then again in two, and this process is repeated over and over. Some split and do not remain together and become free floating. Others, as in Microcystis agglomerate and make up a large colony held together by a slimy mass (Fay calls it a matrix). What you see, in essence, is not an alga but literally thousands upon thousands of them, all bound by the slime - the latter being what you see, not the individual algae. Remember they are so small that even normal strong microscopes cannot detect them.

Many blue-greens are characterized a filamentous appearance. This results from binary splitting where the split cells string themselves together, one attaching itself to the other and so on, until what appears like a filament is present (e.g. the types that may grow on your glass and seem not to go away even when phosphate levels are real low. The reason for this will become clear later. Indeed their main food source is not PO4 but nitrogen, which they uptake directly from the water.

Filaments can be straight as in Oscillatoria, or appear like a coil as in Spirulina. Of course variations occur that result from the shape of the actual cell (round, plate-lie, cylindrical, ovoid, rod-like, etc.). All these affect what you see. Again a slimy mass may hold the cells together, giving the algae the appearance of strings of slime rather than patches of slime. The strings can be straight or curled or even branched. Often the visible eye cannot detect the exact shape of the filaments even though they are made up of thousands and thousands of individual cells. There are so many cells though, that we see a filament or a patch or something similar.

The shape of what you see can also be affected by whether or not the cells are all identical in shape or not. Indeed some of these algae cells' shape will change depending on what type of nutrients are available at the time the splitting occurs (Cole and Sheath). Nitrogen availability levels and types appear to be the determining factor in the shape and size the cell takes on when division occurs (Carr and Whitton). By type of nitrogen source is meant: nitrogen, nitrogenous compounds, nitrogen nitrate, and so on. Fay also points out that genetics appears to determine the positioning of the cells but not necessarily their size. The postulate is that the food source at the time of splitting has lot to do with size.

The peripheral (outer) region of the cell contain the photosynthetic algal mechanism and the ensuing pigments.

Depending on what pigments are present in that region and in what Carr calls supramolecular complexes, various color forms appear. It should be obvious that the type of lighting used may influence the growth of these algae. Indeed pigments absorb certain wavelengths of light. The one that we are probably most concerned with, the red slime algae, have a great deal (relatively speaking) of phycoerythrins. The latter's absorption level is optimized at 555-564 nm (manometer) wavelength.

Aquariums where a high amount of this light wavelength is present are, therefore, much more likely to see the appearance of red slimy algae, given that nutrients will be present (any nitrogen based food source - or in other words breakdown from protein or stated differently yet, dissolved organic matter or dissolved organic carbon).

Red phycoerythrin is not the only pigment that is present in these algae of course and is what differentiates (amongst other characteristics) the blue greens. Blue phycocyanin and allophycocyanin are present in some as well. These have different wavelength uptake patterns and result in some blue greens taking on other colors. In addition, some blue greens have a mix of these pigments and the eventual color they take on depends on the spectrum of the light over them aquarium, as this will favor one pigment over another, meaning one color versus another one.

For the sake of completeness let me point out that the pigments just mentioned are Phycobiliproteins. This is in contrast to other pigments such as Chlorophyll and Carotenoids. All pigments in blue greens are incorporated in the lipid outer layer, referred to earlier (lipid=fat and fat-like esters). After being harvested by phycobiliproteins in the PS II (photosythesis II) cycle, light wavelength energy now trapped is transmitted to the PS I system and its Chlorophyll (mostly of type a). This appears to be a very efficient process (Zhevner and Shestakov). Clearly light is a major player in the type of blue-green algae that will appear.

Whe we talk about light in the context of photosynthesis we always need to take into account that wath we are really talking about is two distinct aspects of light: its intensity and its spectrum. Intensity can be viewed as its amount, spectrum can be seen as its quality. Both play a role in how much and what type of blue-green algae (and for that manner any photosynthesizing algae) will appear.

It is also known that other nutrients play a role in the growth of blue-greens: iron, phosphorurs, magnesium and so on. We will see more about this later in this article. Although the main nutrient appears to be nitrogen in many forms, this is not the only nutrient source these algae rely on and which makes them appear in an aquarium or aquatic environment.

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04-05-2008, 06:27 PM #231
richyrich

Cyanobacteria and Blue-Green Algae Part 2

In Part 1 we touched on the reproduction of Cyanobacteria (the table listed various methods of reproduction): binary fission, budding, fragmentation. These forms of reproduction explain to a great extent the various appearances that Cyanobacteria take on in the aquarium: patches, slimy masses, strings, filaments, branched filaments and so on. We have seen that photosynthesis plays a large and important role in the reproduction and growth of such algae. The wavelength of the lighting that you provide determines what form of Cyanobacteria will grow in the tank. Keep the wavelengths that particularly promote blue-green algae growth low and you will have far less problems.

We have also noted that other nutrients play a role in growth and reproduction (dissolved organic carbon or material being an important one). Phosphate and iron are other ones.

Because of the usually high amount of pigments present in Cyanobacteria (as mentioned in Part 1), and because these pigments assist in the photosynthesis process (both PS I and PS II or Photsystem I and II), light does plays a great role in their growth and bears looking at some more. Indeed, slime algae of various colors can appear when the light source has degraded and when the wavelengths mentioned in Part 1 are suddenly becoming stronger (more intense or appear as a greater proportion of the total amount of lighting provided that penetrates the water.

This is often overlooked. Hobbyists are more likely to look for other reasons to explain the blue-green growths, and forget that old bulbs, fluorescents tubes, and other forms of lighting may need to be replaced to eliminate the spectra that are undesirable in terms of their effect on Cyanobacterial growth in general.

Photosynthesis can best and in its easiest form be described as the synthesis of organic compounds through the uptake of carbon dioxide and its fixation, light being used as the energy source. The total process involves several complex enzymatic and energy requiring reactions, all of which follow each other in a very particular order. I will not go into the details and mention the various enzymes involved such as carbonic anhydrase, dark reactions and other terminology that is not necessary to understand what is actually going on. For more information on those processes you can refer to specialized books or articles in the Review of Microbiology.

What is important to note is two-fold at least:

carbon dioxide is required, and it can come from two sources

decay of organic material

bicarbonates in the water

energy from light is required. This light has to be of the right spectrum (Kelvin degrees), as outlined in Part 1 of this article on blue-green algae.

The carbon dioxide can come from the breakdown of organic material but can also come from bicarbonate ions. Note, therefore, that a high dissolved organic load, combined with a high dKH, is practically certain to lead to the appearance of blue-greens.

Note also that higher or greater amounts of photosynthesis, with at the same time the presence of a great deal of organic material in the water, will produce more CO2 on one hand and increase growth on the other. Higher amounts of light combined with more CO2 provide more energy and since the carbon dioxide is present, blue-greens will start to grow.

The ideal combination for blue-greens to grow is: high DOC (dissolved organic carbon = dissolved organic protein = dissolved organic matter and the decay of that organic matter), high dKH levels and over saturation of CO2. The latter can occur if and when the carbon dioxide is not degassed properly from the water through the overflow leading to the sump, or when the water enters the sump by falling down in it in small streams.

If no sump is present at all the likelihood of carbon dioxide being high increases. Add to that lighting ot the type of wavelengths indicated in Part 1 and you are just about sure to get blue-green algae to grow in your aquarium. Add a high dKH and you really have an ideal environment for Blue-Greens to appear and proliferate and be hard to eradicate.

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04-05-2008, 06:30 PM #232
richyrich

As you can see it does not take much really for Cyanobacteria to grow in our tanks!

I should perhaps add an explanation on why bicarbonates can contribute to the amount of blue-greens. Bicarbonates (such as baking soda - another reason not to use it often or on a large scale to maintain pH levels which it does not really do anyway since its natural pH is between 7.6 and 7.8) is converted to carbon dioxide by means of an enzymatic process:

HCO3- +H+ turns into CO2 + H2O.

CO2 does not require light necessarily. That is why such carbon dioxide fixation is referred to as the "dark reaction" of photosynthesis. Carbon dioxide can be uptaken even when no light is present. When other conditons are not favorable to the growth of Blue-Greens, they will not appear in your tank. If they are though, they will. Other conditions, and in my experience, the one that contributes most to the growth of blue-greens is the presence of high amounts of dissolved organic material which really creates an ample supply of carbon dioxide and the presence of phosphates.

Since photosynthesis is at work, photolysis occurs (also called the Hill Reaction) and oxygen is produced as a by-product. This is normally only associated with macro green algae but it should be clear from what has been written here that this oxygen production and release occurs with blue green algae as well. The actual reaction breaks water up into 2 Hydrogen ions, half an oxyen one and 2 units of energy. This explains why blue-greens soon are covered with tiny bubbles. The bubbles are free oxygen.

While this free oxygen greatly contributes to dissolved oxygen levels in the tank, the fact that it is generated by algae we do not really want in our aquarium, makes it a process we do not wish to rely on.

In nature though, blue-green algae are a very important source of oxygenation and play a very positive role in maintaining water quality at high purity since free oxygen has a real high ORP and cleans the water a great deal. In aquariums though we wish to achieve oxygen saturation in other ways, not through blue-green algae.

It was stated that the kind of lighting that is provided affects the growth cycle and determines the type of Cyanobacteria that actually make their appearance is a major factor to consider. What differentiates Cyanobacteria from other algae that photosynthesize, and especially from Chlorophyta (the higher green algae) is the wavelengths at which photosynthesis can take place.

I indicated that chlorophyll plays a role and that the ideal wavelength for this process is the 665-680 nanometers wavelength. Specific to Cyanobacteria and what makes them different and may lead to their appearance is when the light emitted by whatever bulb you use, start to shift and emits wavelengths in the 620 and 560 nanometer range where the phycobiliproteins referred to in Part 1 are just as efficient at photosynthesing than chlorophyll is.

This is a major difference specific to Blue-Greens, and is pointed out by several Authors consulted while writing this article.

At those wavelengths phycocyanin and phycoerythrin photosynthesize and lead to the appearance of Cyanobacteria. A slight shift in the amount of light emitted in this waveband can therefore lead to an outbreak of Blue-Greens. Unsuspecting Hobbyists may try to find all kinds of reasons for this growth when all that is really happening is that their bulbs need changing as they are emitting light that is promoting the growth of Blue-Greens.

Mind you, chlorophyll is still involved in the process but what is happening is that the pigments that can uptake the shorter wavelengths transfer it to the ones that need higher ones and so on. A typical sequence of the full photosynthesis cycle of Cyanobacteria would then be:

» energy uptake and transfer from phycoerythrin to phycocyanin, to allophycocyanin, to chlorophyll a. The rest is quite clear. As photosynthesis proceeds and all the processes start to take place, Blue-Green algae suddenly appear in the aquarium.

Note that the picture is more complex still in certain cases and that other pigments and other nutrients are involved as well in the growth. Perhaps this explains why when these algae appear it is so difficult to deal with them and also explains why they appear when we as Hobbyists believe our water quality parameters are such that none should grow.

Remember though: the main culprits are dissolved organic material and carbon dioxide and light of the wavelengths indicated above.

More will be reviewed in Part 3 of this article. As you can well imagine this article requires a great deal of reading and then distilling the information in article form. At the end of the series I will list references and suggested reading materials that you may wish to consult if you want to research this further.

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04-05-2008, 06:32 PM #233
richyrich

Cyanobacteria Part 3

It has always been assumed that blue-green algae relied for the most part, if not completely, on photosynthesis for growth and reproduction. This may have been the case up to a few years ago but recent findings have demonstrated that Cyanobacteria do not rely solely on CO2 fixation but can and will thrive in environments that are rich in organic matter (I have indicated this in many of my writings and have always suggested that to eradicate blue-greens one needs to skim more efficiently and/or use a compound that oxidizes organic material out of the water so this food source is no longer present). These findings are confirmed by researchers such as Carr and Whitton, Fog, Stuart and Fay, and others still.

Not all Cyanos can utilize this mode of food uptake as some are Obligate Photoautotrophs (meaning they rely totally on photosynthesis for food and growth). It turns out that most of the ones that fit in this category are freshwater types. Most saltwater cyanos rely on either organic foodstuff uptake and/or on photosynthesis (and are called Facultatively Photoheterotrophs), and will uptake organic food and substances if they are available.

Of course, we all know that our aquariums are laden with organic material. This is especially so if the skimmer we are using is not removing organic material efficiently or cannot remove all or the majority of it because it is either too small, or the tank is so heavily stocked that the skimmer cannot keep up with the amount of organic material produced on a continuous basis. Overfeeding would obviously contribute to this situation even more.

It should be noted also that "light" actually enhances the uptake of organic material (Fay). The situation this puts hobbyists in is that not only are we faced with blue-greens that feed on organic substance and their breakdown components, but that light increases the uptake of these substances and results in a more dense and more widespread growth of cyanobacteria. Sort of a Catch 22 situation, unless we realize that we need to do what ever is in our power to keep the amount of organics in the water low, as low as possible. This requires the use of real efficient skimming (hobbyists who do so, do not generally report problems with outbreaks of Cyanos).

What we definitely need to remember from this is that the combination of running high intensity lighting and not paying attention to the amount of organic material in the tank will definitely lead to the appearance of blue-green algae, as should be evident from the information given above. Two methods need to be used in my opinion:

* Skim as efficiently as you can.
* Remove organic material from the aquarium by using an oxidizer (for instance potassium permanganate solutions such as Redox +).

Excellent skimmers abound nowadays. As a rule of thumb it is a good idea to buy one that is rated for at least twice the size of your tank and to acquire a venturi type. Remember that for venturi skimmers to run well they need to be operated with pumps that can develop a lot of pressure on the venturi valve (this allows it to pull in more air and produce smaller bubbles which results in more efficient skimming). In addition to running such a skimmer, you may wish to add potassium permanaganate in small amounts a few times a week. If you wish to read up on Redox + which is such a product you can go to our SW Library and under Product related articles read the product description. Note that other companies manufacture such products and that you are "not" limited to ours.

One way to determine whether your organic load is high is to perform a DO and a BOD test (dissolved oxygen and biological oxygen demand). This is done in the following manner:

* Take two samples of water.
* Use one for immediate testing
* Store the other in the dark making sure there is no air trapped in the container you use (fill it under water and then put the cap on).
* Test the first sample for dissolved oxygen and write the result down
* Store the second sample for 48 hours
* After that time has elapsed, perform a dissolved oxygen test on the second sample.
* Write down the result
* Compare the results of the first test to the second one and note what the difference is
* If it is greater than 1 mg/l your organic load is high and you definitely need to intervene. This is done either by upgrading the skimmer or making it more efficient, or starting a potassium permanganate solution treatment. Ideally and in most cases the better method is to do both.
* Note that even though the tests reveal to some extent what the DOC (dissolved organic carbon) level is, any protein material that is in the tank that has not decomposed yet is not measured by this test and will eventually increase the amount of DOC even further.
* It is important for correct DO and BOD measuring that your test be chemically active. Most tests have expiration dates listed on the box they come in. Make sure yours is still within the useable period. If it is not you will get meaningless results.

It should be quite obvious from the above that keeping organic loads to a minimum is paramount to avoiding outbreaks of Cyanobacteria. The techniques to do so have been outlined. I suggest you seriously consider using them. I have personally found that adding potassium permanganate several times a week will keep all blue-greens out of the tank. Of course, efficient skimming is necessary as well.

If you now have blue-greens in the tank and need to eradicate them, the methods described above will work for you. In addition to them you should siphon as many of the existing ones out. This prevents them from dying off in the tank, decomposing and adding more nutrients to the water which will make more cyanos grow.

Having a blue-green free tank is not difficult. If you follow what was described here and in the previous two installments you will have no trouble achieving this.

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04-05-2008, 07:10 PM #234
richyrich

I have been calling this brown algae this whole time which is somewhat right. There is a classification of algae that is brown. But, I do believe what we are dealing with here is cyanobacteria. It is commonly referred to as blue green algae. But, it is just a classification and there are several kinds. This cyanobacteria can be any color, such as our brown slimy friend. So, the greenish colored algae that most of us have seen is a cousin sort of say. And this cyanobacteria is not really a bacteria or algae; it is an in between. Somewhat of a link between the two.

Here is what I think happens. This stuff loves organic materials. Most think that it needs light, not so. I have been saying this for a long time. It does not need light and it likes organic materials. Well here it is. It can do just fine with abundant CO2. Decomposing organic material gives off lots of CO2. Now just think about what happens when we add an enzyme like Hygrozyme. We make an organic feast and boom, explosion. Or, when we add any additive that has any trace of organic material like Liguid Karma which I will not use anymore. I like the stuff but I dabbled with it and did not clean out the trash cans and I got this crap growing again.

And I grow in a sealed room with CO2. Sh*t, I am pumping this slime full of the stuff it likes. When doing hydro I ran air stones in my rezs. Even though oxygen was getting in there so was all the CO2. No wonder I had all kinds of problems. I gave this crap everything it needed. That is why the chillers never worked no matter how cold I dropped it. Temps have nothing to do with this stuff.

Read what I will repost below. The color and the type of cyanobacteria to show up is dependant on the environment . The color of it is dependent on the light spectrum . My rezs are dark. No light getting through and I would assume that is what makes the darker colors appear like brown. Even though there was no light I gave it all the organics it needed and then juiced em up with a room full of CO2. Sh*t, damn and crap.

Oh, and the brown classification of algae had no reference about slime. This cyanobacteria is what gets slimy if you get the right one to pop up. The way it forms can be in many ways, also. The reason our friend gets slimy is because all of these microscopic things connect together like a big colony. Some others free float and you get the picture.

Absolutely no organic material or enzymes in hydro is what I say for now on. Save organics to growing in soil where this problem will not arise. I feel like busting out the hydro gear out and experimenting again. One thing I will have to do for sure is run my air pumps for the rez from outside the room. I do not want to pump the rez full of O2 and CO2. Just O2 from outside.

Let's hear what anybody else thinks after the read I posted above.

It has always been assumed that blue-green algae relied for the most part, if not completely, on photosynthesis for growth and reproduction. This may have been the case up to a few years ago but recent findings have demonstrated that Cyanobacteria do not rely solely on CO2 fixation but can and will thrive in environments that are rich in organic matter (I have indicated this in many of my writings and have always suggested that to eradicate blue-greens one needs to skim more efficiently and/or use a compound that oxidizes organic material out of the water so this food source is no longer present). These findings are confirmed by researchers such as Carr and Whitton, Fog, Stuart and Fay, and others still.

Not all Cyanos can utilize this mode of food uptake as some are Obligate Photoautotrophs (meaning they rely totally on photosynthesis for food and growth). It turns out that most of the ones that fit in this category are freshwater types. Most saltwater cyanos rely on either organic foodstuff uptake and/or on photosynthesis (and are called Facultatively Photoheterotrophs), and will uptake organic food and substances if they are available.

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04-06-2008, 12:10 PM #235
jarff

Man RR you are doing your homework but to say the least it is a bit over my head,but I do get the jest of it. A catch-22.to say the least.It seems one would have to throw everything out and start a-fresh.
One point you made was the correlation of hygrozyme and the fact that it is fuel for algae.I said that from the start when I started using it and being plagued with algae then root rot.I continued for several grows and spend $$$ on equipment that I probably didn,t need.In the end when I got rid of the Hygrozyme I did achieve better results.I use garbage cans for mixing nutes but I usually don,t let it sit any longer then 24 hours.Occassionally I notice after several days that a garbage can that has a bit of liquid on the bottom starts to smell pretty putrid.I always use 35% peroxide and scrub them with a stiff brush and rinse before I mix up nutes for the next feeding.This may be helping in my situation.I still do get a bit root rot at the end of a grow but with the strain being a 50 day one I usually get in under the wire and have better reults then when I had a 65/70 day strain.
It is frustrating to say the least but I can say you are persistent and stubborn which should eventually bring you to a point of mastery over the dreaded brown/blue/grren/algae......sorry I can,t add anything to solve your quandry but my thoughts are with you.I read your posts with anticipation of you overcoming your nightmare...good luck guy...
jarff

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04-06-2008, 06:53 PM #236
richyrich

Thanks for the kind words. Talking about throwing everything away and starting new; I think that would have to include tossing the place your growing at too. lol. This cyanobacteria is some of the first living things to live on this earth. It is indistructable. I am gonna have to completely understand it to defeat it or keep it away at best. After a little bit of research, again, I think I found my problems which I posted last. I am gonna have to experiment to rule out my new theories. I would love to go back to hydro. At one point I only had to go in the bloom room once a week. Talk about easy street. When I got slimed it has been years of work.

But, I am in no rush. I am tired of dealing with this stuff but willing to still fight it.

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04-07-2008, 03:51 AM #238
richyrich

Yep, you understand it. The brown algae are diatoms and this cyanobacteria is another breed. I am more inclined to believe its the cyano because all my reading I could not find reference to the diatoms being slimy. The cyano gets slimy, breeding in clumps or film. The film is when things feel slimy and the clumps on like what is on your finger. The ranting I was doing about the stuff in my trash can in less than 24 hours looks like your finger and everything else was slimy feeling plus the foul smell.

The UV light in a hydro resevoir has me interested. That, my chiller and some zone and I think the stuff would not be able to grow. It will be waiting if you remove said items but we wouldnt do that. The UV is something I need to try.

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04-07-2008, 05:03 PM #240
richyrich

And on top of that, think of this. Once the diatoms or cyano suffocate and kill the roots with their slime the environment is then ripe for actual root rot to come in too; meaning pythium. What a sick cycle.

I just picked up a bag of roots organics soil. It looks like good stuff. Gonna try it out one round.

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08-02-2008, 08:03 PM #246
richyrich

I'm back and I have the itch for hydro again. I knew I couldn't stay away for too long. Growing in soil gave me a good basic understanding of the plant and, also, the importance of maintaining a microherd in the soil. I never grew in soil and hopscotched right past all of that basic information.

I ain't going all hydro, but I am going to dedicate one part of my bloom room to a flood and drain. I am going to do something that I first did when I barely began growing. I never changed out the resevoir. I just did add backs and I grew some of the best plants back then. Then I got all into it and couldn't leave good enough alone. Went kind of OCD on it instead of keeping it KISS. I want to find out what will happen if I maintain a resevoir full of heavy beneficial microbes through out. I am not going the sterile route on this one. And the reason why I am not changing the rez is because I don't want to kill the colony of benes that will be in the rez. If I changed rez's every week like before I wouldn't be able to establish a very large ever growing colony as in not changing the rez. I theorize that the colony will get bigger and bigger and out compete any of the nasties from getting started including the hydro herpe. So, I want to see if this little experiment works. I think my thoughts ride along very similar to the bio buckets.

Going to see what happens. They will start veg in a couple of weeks. I'll update.

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08-10-2008, 05:31 PM #252
richyrich

That be it. Anytime I used an EZ cloner that is what I got. And anytime they even looked like that they would not come back. I tried it all. I hope you the best, but they will most likely die. And if not you are going to infect the hydro system they will go into next.

Zone is made by Dutch Master. It's the best product that I tried that contains the algae. It will still be around just waiting to attack, though. It's the herpe of hydro. It will pop up when you least expect it and it never goes away completely. Battled it for years.

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09-02-2008, 11:25 PM #257
richyrich

This would be the closest thing that describes it. I have tried everything to battle it including everything suggested. Hygrozyme actually made it worse as it broke down old material and fed the nasties even faster which made them explode in growth. The one thing right on is organic material seems to be food for them. I have done sterile, straight salt ferts, chillers, new equipment, every product on the shelf; beneficials to combat it; you name it I did it.

A lot of info on all the several types of algae. Even ones that don't require any light if any, such as brown slime algae. Once you have it it does not go away. That is why it is the hydro herpe.

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09-03-2008, 02:59 PM #259
richyrich

Case in point: This stuff will grow in an EZ cloner that is black and covered from all light. There are no roots to grow on because I have had it grow right on the bottom of the cutting stumps. Read this entire thread you will see people with the same. It wasn't the heat because I plumbed a water chiller to one at 67F and it still grew. I, also, did complete sterile runs with it with H2O2. It still grew rampantly. It's not root rot because there were no roots. Same thing with the generic term pythium, there were no roots.

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09-03-2008, 10:31 PM #262
richyrich

What I have made in bold in the above read is what needs to be realized. This stuff is known as red or brown slime algae in the aquarium world. Real name cyanobacteria, so technically it is really a bacteria and therefore light is not a factor as in real algae, like the typical blue-green variety. What cyanobacteria like are organics and carbon dioxide.

I don't know if you read my case in point with the ez cloner because no light gets in there so point proven.

Another case in point: 55 gallon drum used as a resevoir painted black and wrapped with black and white poly plastic flooding trays completely covered. It still grew. Read the entire thread.

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09-03-2008, 11:55 PM #264
richyrich

Now you can see how we have concluded that enzymes like Hygrozyme and Sensizyme make a slime explosion happen even quicker. But, the marketing (advertising) will tell you that these products help keep the bad stuff away. Well in this case, it's like giving these critters speed.

So, for the people who have this and still want to do hydro, I highly suggest you get away from a recirculating resevoir. You need to go feed to waste. Or just go to dirt like me. I'm actually mixing dirt right now.

And do know that once you have this the reason it most likely keeps on coming back is because your grow room is now infested with dormant cyanobacteria spores. They are just waiting for your fan to kick them up in the air so they can go for a dive in your resevoir. They are so tiny that they are hard to see with a basic microscope. Do a search on these spores and then see how screwed you are.

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09-04-2008, 12:22 AM #265
richyrich

I think the next time I attempt hydro I will incorporate some kind of medium in my resevoir for the beneficial bacterium to live in and only do add backs. No resevoir change outs except at the end for the flush. I will probably start off the resevoir with something like sub-culture for a week prior before adding plants. This would be like cycling a fish aquarium but jump started with the sub-culture (beneficials).

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09-05-2008, 01:26 AM #272
richyrich

Post #10, this is a weird one. Using advance nute beneficial bacteria and fungi products and still got toppled by the slime. I have to share that one time I used sub-culture by general hydro (big dose of beneficials) and I got toppled to. That was way back in the beginning of my fight. Back then I didn't know that it might be wise to cycle the reservoir with beneficials before adding plants to the system. This is what I still need to try.

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09-06-2008, 05:29 PM #277
richyrich

I'll tell you right now that the Physan kills it. Look at the label in the picture above. The problem is not killing it. The problem is keeping it away. After years I have concluded that the cyanobacteria spores have made a cozy place in my bloom room and they are not going to leave. This brown algae slime is tenacious as all hell and when you get it you will always have it. You just never know when its gonna flare up. Just like someone with herpes. Hence, I started calling it the HYDRO HERPE.

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09-06-2008, 07:28 PM #278
richyrich

And as I just remembered, I figured I would post it. To address the problems of the spores I even bought a strong ozone generator. From the research I did it says that ozone eliminates spores. Well I guess you all can figure it didn't work because I am still growing in dirt. Here is just a quick search I ran on ozone. If I could be growing hydro I would, but I trialed everything. No grower should have to suffer the misery that this will bring. To see your friends cropping and you crapping!!!!! And to boot, I set the friends up and no problems for them. It will drive you crazy. That is why I have posted all of my experience regarding this subject. As we have seen now, this has been happening to a lot of people and there was just no information out there on it.

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09-14-2008, 02:19 PM #281
richyrich

I'll go ahead and repeat myself one more time. The couple of questions you have posed here you could of found the answers to in my previous posts.

The chlorine in tap water will kill it at first, but once the chlorine dissipates it will come back. Yes, I have tried tap water way back. On the same note, I have strongly advocated the use of Physan 20 to kill it and it does work. The problem is keeping it away or at bay. If you want to keep it at bay then I have advocated the use of Dutch Master Zone. I have found that to work the best. It's mechanism is much like the chlorine. It is actually a chloramine which I believe is a derivative of chlorine. It does not dissipate quickly like chlorine and stays more long term therefore keeping the hydro herpe at bay.

Don't really understand your clone question, but yeah I only use clones.

I have tried a lot of different hydro systems. Your grow bag idea is not always going to work because I don't always use net baskets. Covering all light was the first thing I did when this problem first arose. I ruled out the light after covering everything with black and white poly and it did not work.

You did read that this is not a true algae, right???????

Cyanobacteria

A large and heterogeneous group of photosynthetic microorganisms, formerly referred to as algae. They had been classified with the algae because their mechanism of photosynthesis is similar to that of algal and plant chloroplasts; however, the cells are prokaryotic, whereas the cells of algae and plants are eukaryotic. The name cyanobacteria is now used to emphasize the similarity in cell structure to other prokaryotic organisms. See also Algae; Cell plastids.

All cyanobacteria can grow with light as an energy source through oxygen-evolving photosynthesis; carbon dioxide (CO2) is fixed into organic compounds via the Calvin cycle, the same mechanism used in green plants. Thus, all species will grow in the absence of organic nutrients. However, some species will assimilate organic compounds into cell material if light is available, and a few isolates are capable of growth in the dark by using organic compounds as carbon and energy sources. Some cyanobacteria can shift to a different mode of photosynthesis, in which hydrogen sulfide rather than water serves as the electron donor. Molecular oxygen is not evolved during this process, which is similar to that in purple and green photosynthetic sulfur bacteria. The photosynthetic pigments of cyanobacteria include chlorophyll a (also found in algae and plants) and phycobiliproteins. See also Chlorophyll; Photosynthesis.

Wow, I can see how they grew in my reservoir. Plenty of organic nutes and a CO2 injected room. After all, these were the first organisms on the planet that created all of the oxygen we breathe. They love that carbon dioxide.

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09-14-2008, 02:29 PM #282
richyrich

Far from under dosing bazooka. You are going to kill everything at 100ml for 45 gallons. Physan 20 is to kill it off, not to keep it at bay. You need Dutch Master Zone for that.

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10-23-2008, 11:40 AM #286
richyrich

Brown slime algae is not the same as root rot.

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11-08-2008, 10:21 AM #291
richyrich

Hygrozyme or any enzyme product is good if you don't have brown slime algae.

If you are going to use this or advocate using this product in such an instance after reading this thread, I strongly advise that you re-read this whole thread very very thoroughly. Pay particular attention to those who have used these products.

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11-10-2008, 09:31 PM #293
richyrich

Thanks jarff... After all the years of trials and tribulations and finally figuring out what this curse was, brown slime algae, I am taking a long deserved break from it all. Like I posted, soil is where I had to go and it was working great. Missed the hydro but once you get what I named it, the hydro herpe, there is just no getting rid of it. It just flares up unexpectedly to cause havoc much like I would assume a person with for real herpes has. I would guess, lol.

Once I went to soil this was the result below. A total turn around.

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11-13-2008, 04:14 PM #295
richyrich

I already tried and posted my results from the algae killer from petsmart. Does jack squat. The small bottle of physan cost about $12. I'll tell you right now I never saved any clones after the stuff appeared in my ez cloner. I must of went 5 rounds trying to defeat it in the ez cloner. Just go rock wool. I did and no problems. You just have to read all of my experience here. Feel free to learn on your own but I posted all of this and asked for the sticky so you all wouldn't have to pull your hair out like I did. I always used RO water, 5 stages. I don't know about it laying dormant in tap.

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11-13-2008, 04:15 PM #296
richyrich

If you want to save your clones since they have no roots yet. Dip them in clonex and put them in rock wool or rapid rooters. Slime will be gone.

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12-12-2008, 07:20 AM #301
richyrich

I feel for you. Sounds like what I went through for so long. It just came out of no where after so many successful grows. It will not go away. That is why I named it the Hydro Herpe. It's quite possibly the the worst thing you could get in hydroponics. I tried everything I could possibly think of. I'm still looking for god, lol. Other than that it may be time to go to dirt.

I started off detailing all of my tribulations regarding this algae long ago. There was no information on it and it seemed as if I was the only one who had this problem back then. On top of that nobody even knew what it was. It amazes me today to see how many fellow growers have this.

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12-12-2008, 07:39 PM #302
NFTNate

Richy ive read this whole thread probably 3 times and I'm amazed at the lengths you went to fix this with no cure. Are the people of ICMAG going to give up on this issue? I know when I was joined with OG they would never let a grower down! We need mass brain power! READ THIS THREAD PEOPLE! I dont want to go back to soil. We need a scientist to help us out here. I know there has to be someone that knows the proper CURE for this shit. I will post pics of my encounter with this alien algae to help.

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12-13-2008, 12:31 PM #304
richyrich

I'm afraid there is no cure. Prevention is a must always but once you get it, what to do? Physan20 to to erradicate what is present and then Dutch Master Zone to keep it at bay once it comes right back. All my trials led me to this solution. And to tell the truth I was still not happy with that but it was the best I could do.

I spoke of it in earlier threads but I have not tried it yet because I have semi-retired from growing. Since I moved to soil previously, more specifically organics, I learned a lot about beneficial bacteria, fungi and etc.. I have yet to try to battle the hydro herpe with beneficials in hydro the right way. I believe the way to do it would be to have your rez primed with beneficials that would not allow the slime algae a chance at getting a foot hold. You would have to seed the rez with the right beneficials, feed them properly and let it prime for 2 weeks before introducing any plants to the system. Rez change outs would be very different. I have done it in the past with success. I would probably start by just doing add backs, water and nutes. No complete change outs. You would be dumping your beneficials and then you know who's gonna come slime you. Then I would try partial change outs. Maybe dump half and add back half. That way you still have a large colony of beneficials to fend off the herp. Anyway, that is what I was thinking for my next round for when ever that may be.

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01-31-2009, 06:38 PM #309
richyrich

It's been 6 weeks since I last posted so thought I'd give you all an update on what I have been doing. As I posted in the past I had gone to soil. Well since then I next finally starting playing with coco.

I have to say I am amazed with the stuff. As I read somebody else post they were koo koo for coco, so am I. The stuff is really amazing. It is nearly impossible to over water unlike soil and the growth is just as fast as hydro. I have been doing a small hand watered grow and have learned that the ppms and ph need to be treated just like hydro. The roots are so white and appear to look like hydro roots instead of soil roots. This stuff blows soil away. Its all feed to waste so you never have to worry about our friend the hydro herpe, brown slime algae. And you get hydro results. If you just cant beat the hydro herpe I highly suggest switching to coco feed to waste. You will not be sorry. The next thing I have to work on is making this auto with a drip type set up.

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02-03-2009, 08:31 PM #314
richyrich

There is nothing that will get rid of it. You can kill it but it will be back. And if you do get rid of it you will always worry about if it will come back because it most likely will. Once you get herpes you always have it and it will flare up whenever. And that is not from personal experience, lol.

RO water or tap don't matter. It seems as if one day a spore just decided to take a swim in your reservoir and multiply. Then you are done. You soon have a room full of microscopic spores. There is no way to get rid of them. I even tried an ozone generator in the room to kill spores. I concede that there is no way to kill off one of the first inhabitants of this earth. There is a reason it has survived since the beginning of time here.

Organic, sugar and enzyme products make the herpe explode on a food binge.

Physan20 kills it completely but it will come back. Water temps don't matter. H2O2, SM90, etc... help a little but are basically useless. Dutch Master Zone is the only product that keeps it at bay best but it is still not gone. It's there just waiting to take over.

The only way to run hydro once you have the hydro herpe is to ditch the recirculating reservoirs!!! You have to go feed to waste. Other options are soil and coco.

That's a recap on everything I have posted on my years of battling this. It is futile and if you are insisting on battling it I wish you the best of luck. If you read this whole thread you will find most of my journey and all trial and tribulations to this battle. I LOST in the end. Word from the wise and hopefully this thread helps a lot of people because when I started I could find nothing on this issue. Everyone said it was root rot which is far from the truth.

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02-07-2009, 09:40 PM #316
richyrich

Use the Physan20. For use in your reservoir with plants, 1ml per 10 gallons. The stuff is super concentrated. For sterilization of equipment with no plants I would double it.

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04-27-2009, 04:07 PM #336
richyrich

You beat me too it. I posted this a while back.

Keep us updated on this. I am glad to hear that it is working in your EZ Cloner. I am eventually gonna make a run with benes how I stated above.

Botanicare's old hydroguard is out and called agua shield now.

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04-28-2009, 02:23 PM #338
richyrich

As I said in post #320...

I have the Sunleaves reservoir UV sterilization light. Gonna give it a try real soon in hydro again. I'm going to do this experiment before I do a hydro run experimenting with a large beneficial microbe colony. Fingers crossed cuz I would ultimately like to go back to hydro.

Here is a little info on UV light...

Sterilization
Main article: Ultraviolet germicidal irradiation
A low pressure mercury vapor discharge tube floods the inside of a hood with shortwave UV light when not in use, sterilizing microbiological contaminants from irradiated surfaces.

Ultraviolet lamps are used to sterilize workspaces and tools used in biology laboratories and medical facilities. Commercially-available low pressure mercury-vapor lamps emit about 86% of their light at 254 nanometers (nm) which coincides very well with one of the two peaks of the germicidal effectiveness curve (i.e., effectiveness for UV absorption by DNA). One of these peaks is at about 265 nm and the other is at about 185 nm. Although 185 nm is better absorbed by DNA, the quartz glass used in commercially-available lamps, as well as environmental media such as water, are more opaque to 185 nm than 254 nm (C. von Sonntag et al., 1992). UV light at these germicidal wavelengths causes adjacent thymine molecules on DNA to dimerize, if enough of these defects accumulate on a microorganism's DNA its replication is inhibited, thereby rendering it harmless (even though the organism may not be killed outright). However, since microorganisms can be shielded from ultraviolet light in small cracks and other shaded areas, these lamps are used only as a supplement to other sterilization techniques.

Disinfecting drinking water

UV radiation can be an effective viricide and bactericide. Disinfection using UV radiation is commonly used in wastewater treatment applications and is finding an increased usage in drinking water treatment. Many bottlers of spring water use UV disinfection equipment to sterilize their water. Solar water disinfection is the process of using PET bottles and sunlight to disinfect water.

New York City has approved the construction of a 2 billion gallon per day ultraviolet drinking water disinfection facility.[27] There are also several facilities under construction and several in operation that treat waste water with several stages of filters, hydrogen peroxide and UV light to bring the water up to drinking standards. One such facility exists in Orange County, California.[28][29] NASA has examined the use of this technology, using titanium dioxide as catalyst, for breaking down harmful products in spacecraft waste water.[30]

It used to be thought that UV disinfection was more effective for bacteria and viruses, which have more exposed genetic material, than for larger pathogens which have outer coatings or that form cyst states (e.g., Giardia) that shield their DNA from the UV light. However, it was recently discovered that ultraviolet radiation can be somewhat effective for treating the microorganism Cryptosporidium. The findings resulted in the use of UV radiation as a viable method to treat drinking water. Giardia in turn has been shown to be very susceptible to UV-C when the tests were based on infectivity rather than excystation.[31] It has been found that protists are able to survive high UV-C doses but are sterilized at low doses.
richyrich jest online Add to richyrich's Reputation Report Post

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05-01-2009, 02:56 PM #339
richyrich

Well, here I go again guys. I am making a hydro run again using complete sterilization this time. From what I have researched UV light is supposed to eradicate just about everything. Let's see if our friend the slime algae can make it past this. Below is a pic of it in my reservoir. Fingers crossed.

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05-02-2009, 09:30 PM #341
richyrich

Thanks, but this was not a thread I started. I searched a lot and this old thread that I came across was the only one that had anything to do with this problem. I kinda went with it from there and brought it back to life. The fellas in the beginning of this thread are the ones who knew about the Physan20.

It amazed me that so many folks were plagued by this problem. Everyone used to tell me it was just root rot. I read a lot and from what I could find I named this problem as to what it was BROWN SLIME ALGAE. Far from root rot. And that name is a misnomer because we are actually battling a bacteria. I posted plenty on it earlier.

I had been wanting to try hydro again and battling the slime with beneficial bacteria colonies in the rez. The folks a few posts up have started and good for them. I was, also, thinking a protein skimmer would work. All that is is the filter and pump that runs in a fish aquarium. The sponge in it harbors the beneficial bacteria in the fish aquarium. It was surprising because I didn't find out what this problem was until I started reading heavily about fish aquariums. Makes sense benes and protein skimmer could work.

For now I really wanted to try the UV Reservoir Light made by Sunleaves that a person shared in a recent post. I bought it and we will all see what happens.

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05-03-2009, 04:55 PM #344
richyrich

If you 'walked in my shoes' through this battle with this bacteria (brown slime algae), you would be a lot more disappointed with it than your thoughts on sterilization.

Its true the UV light will kill anything in the reservoir. And that is where the breeding takes place, so the point is to keep it from even starting. Just in case it does get a foot hold outside of the reservoir than I will try to fend it off with Super Oxy until this experiment is over. Yes, and I repeat this grow is just an experiment. If it doesn't work than I am going to experiment next with a reservoir seeded with beneficial bacteria before I introduce any plants to the system. I posted plenty on this plan several posts ago.

Keep you all updated.

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05-04-2009, 04:23 AM #347
richyrich

I know that to be killed by the UV the micro organism must be exposed to the light. That is a no brainer. Now what part about me saying that anything in the reservoir will be killed is not true? I realize that I have to get everything circulating in the rez through the UV sterilizer which is hopefully being done by the circulation pump I have running in the rez strictly for that reason.

I believe you can conclude that I know that it may grow outside of the reservoir from what I posted already. From my heavy experience it starts in the reservoir first.

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05-04-2009, 04:48 AM #348
richyrich

Well you can be disappointed again because I have not stubbornly decided against a better alternative. Have you not read through my posts? Have you not read about me talking about using beneficial bacteria. Go back pages in this thread. I know all about the alternative. A poster here shared the UV product that I had never seen before and I decided to try it--yippee. The reason... I would like to go back to hydro for it's ease. A UV light in the rez is a lot more easier than seeding a rez and taking care of benes the whole way through. It is no skin off my back to try this UV thing one time just to rule it out or I would always be wondering. I know you have experience with your ponds and there are some similarities but there is also a large difference in their environments. Where is your koi pond? Outside?

About Super Oxy H2O2. You know I am talking about 35% hydrogen peroxide, right? Dosed at the right amount in your rez that will not damage your roots will do no organism any good. It will kill them. Did you know 35% Hydrogen Peroxide is used world wide in municipal water supplies instead of chlorine to disinfect and stop the growth of unwanted organisms? If anything can make it past the Super Oxy then maybe you will be right. That is they will thrive if still alive as the Super Oxy breaks down as it soon does and the extra oxygen is then available.

Your very opinionated posts are welcome, but please be sure of what you are posting in this sticky beforehand such as hydroguard (agua shield) not having any beneficial bacteria in it. That is a very well known product.

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05-04-2009, 04:08 PM #354
richyrich

One recommendation, lose the carboload. It's an accelerant for slime if you do have it. Carboload is better used in soil, soilless or coco grows to feed benes.

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05-04-2009, 08:19 PM #358
richyrich

opt1c, not to come off arrogant here, but I am the one who introduced the zone to this thread with my experience.

I never said I was going to use the H2O2 from the get go.

Zone is a product made my Dutch Master. It's main effective ingredient is a chloramine. Chloramines are a compound of chlorine and ammonia. I found it to be the best product to keep the slime at bay. For complete killing then Physan20 is the ticket.

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05-04-2009, 08:29 PM #360
richyrich

You may have had an overabundance of beneficial bacteria instead of the slime since your roots described seemed healthy and the plants were vigorous. I have done this myself with subculture and liquid carbo load in the past. I know you already did the H2O2, but I would have advised against it. I would of suggested a gentle bathing of the roots, a rez change and ditching the carbo load. Good luck.

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05-04-2009, 08:32 PM #361
richyrich

H2O2 kills as does bleach and Physan20. The problem is that it does not keep it from coming back. So, when you know its going to come back I have had great success with Zone to keep it at bay. But, I was not completely satisfied. Yes, I am running the basic Lucas formula in the rez. Using Flora Nova Bloom only. Please, read this sticky fully.

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05-08-2009, 04:03 PM #366
richyrich

I don't believe it to be much of a mystery any more. From what I have concluded, this is a form of cyanobacteria (it is a bacteria and not a true algae). Cyanobacteria are amongst the oldest living things on this earth; if not the first. If this bacteria has been living this long amongst everything that has happened in earth's past; you can understand why it is so hard to fight away. This type of bacteria is known as Brown Slime Algae; a misnomer name. At least this is what I have concluded from my research and I have shared plenty in all of my posts in this sticky. If you read the entire sticky you will find all of what I have said so far and others have added considerable info and experience too. The best answers to this problem are in this sticky already.

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05-08-2009, 04:38 PM #367
richyrich

Alright, I finally got around to an idea I had for a while now. I made this now as a back up just in case my UV light in the rez experiment begins to fail.

I posted quite a bit on using beneficial bacteria and fungi in the past. I incorporated ideas given to us just recently along with ideas I remember from reading Big Tokes bio bucket sticky. Bio buckets work by harnessing the benefits of benes in a hydro system; and water temps are not even an issue in that system. In bio buckets lava rocks are used to provide a home for the benes. I wanted to create something different to be able to just drop into a reservoir. I wanted to have a suitable housing for the benes to take a stronghold in the rez; to out compete the brown slime algae and other pathogens. So, I created what is below. It cost no more than $15 not including the cost of buying benes in a bottle if you choose too.

Here are the parts needes. 1 piece of 2" pvc pipe any length you want. 2 couplings, 2 end caps with 3/4' threading in the hole, 1 1/2' barb with 3/4" threading and aquarium biological filters.

Take your 2" pvc pipe and stuff it full of aquarium biological filters. At this time you may want to sprinkle some benes on the filters (the powdered kind).

Take a coupling and end cap and attach as so. This will be the exit.

Do the same and screw in the barb fitting to this end. This is the end where you will connect the pump.

When done this is what you should have.

I built mine as a back up and eventual experiment. Please, if any of you want to make one let us know what happens. It's probably going to be a while before I try mine out.

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05-10-2009, 07:38 PM #369
richyrich

Adding biological filters in multiple areas is an excellent idea, especially, when they are so cheap. The only problem I have is with my hydro set up is that I run ebb n flow in trays. It is a covered tray that uses no medium in the tray. Kind of like how NFT works. The roots just grow all together in the bottom of the tray into a big intertwined mat. That is why I was focusing on just the reservoir. I took a look at your setup and you are doing a DWC. A filter would be excellent in each container for DWC as you have done. I suppose I could place multiple filters in my trays. Otherwise, my roots have no way of touching the filter in the reservoir. They are separate. This is something that is going to happen in a lot of hydro set ups that are not DWC; ex: NFT, ebb n flow, multi-flow buckets, drips systems, aero, and etc. But, when ever possible it is a good idea to add filters where ever possible. For instance, if I were running multiple pots of hydroton I would add a filter to every single pot. I would want to breed and harness as many benes as possible to combat the brown algae slime.

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05-11-2009, 03:17 PM #371
richyrich

Man, I wish I would of known what I put in bold long ago after I did round after round of failure with my ez cloner. I was always getting the slime even with no organic fuel for the slime to feed on. I will buy and blow the dust off my ez cloner. Back to cut then set and forget. No easier way to clone.

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05-14-2009, 04:28 AM #379
richyrich

Now here is what I am up to now. Finally, getting back to hydro after a year or so away I wanted to run an experiment with a beneficial microbe seeded reservoir that I have talked much about in the past. Seeing that I decided to go with the UV light in the reservoir this run I figured I could run an experiment with beneficials in my EZ Cloner. I always got slimed in that thing. We have one confirmed grow from DItrY that he/she got rid of the slime by introducing beneficial microbes to his/her grow. I, also, linked some old posts that I never came across before in all my reading on this site regarding the same.

I completely cleaned my EZ Cloner with Physan20 and set it up. The next thing I had to decide was where I wanted to get my beneficial microbes from. I could buy very expensive bottles that like to sell everything separate. One bottle for beneficial bacteria. Another bottle for beneficial fungi and so on. What I ended up doing is making my own earth worm casting tea. IMO nothing beats a fresh brewed EWC tea for microbes. You get beneficial bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes. And the best of all is you only need a $5 dollar bag of earth worm castings, a bucket, air stone and air pump. Oh, and some molasses or what I used, CarboLoad that I still had stored away. The complex sugars in these products feed the microbes. Get over to the organic soil forum and read about EWC teas. In 24 hours they should look frothy like mine.

I ended up putting some in a gallon container for later use. You can store it in the fridge for up to 7-10 days.

And, here is the EZ Cloner ready to go. Notice, I went ahead and threw in a biological filter. Keep you updated.

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05-15-2009, 03:13 PM #382
richyrich

Thanks for the kind word guys, but I am happy just knowing that someone might benefit from this. I don't have to share, but I felt this info had to be posted. I could find nearly nothing on this problem when I began researching 3-4 years ago. And that is 3 years of failing crops that no one should have to go through. An unimaginable amount of work to find disappointment after disappointment. There was not even a name to this problem. Everyone said it was root rot and I just knew it wasn't. Look at this sticky today and I am astounded by how many growers have this problem going on. There was only one post on this site that spoke of the symptoms of this problem and that goes to the original poster of this thread. I stumbled across it and, well, the rest has to be read and it is long.

I went away from hydro and went to organic soil and then to coco. I finally just got kick started to implement my plans to tackle this problem again with what I previously posted. We will all see what happens and, hopefully, we can put this problem to rest.

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05-16-2009, 03:48 PM #386
richyrich

Update.

Day 14 UV Reservoir Sterilization:

Healthy plants and pearly white roots. No sign of slime. No raises in ph indicative of slime.

Day 2 EZ Cloner primed with beneficial microbes:

No sign of slime. Cuttings still firm and healthy.
Note: I usually would be slime already in the past.

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05-18-2009, 06:49 PM #391
richyrich

I wanted to state to folks reading this long sticky, that I do not consider this problem solved yet. We have had one person state their conquest over the brown slime algae. I would like to see a few members here document their grow and conquest over this problem before we can make that official. I have seen a recent registrar and poster to this sticky claiming that it is solved to others in the infirmary. And that he/she and I have had a considerable conversation regarding such. This thread has been going for years and I believe a few posts are not a considerable discussion. Furthermore, I do not believe it is wise to claim victory yet. If any of you are looking for recognition or glory (because I am not) then take the information from all here in this sticky by the horns and document your conquest from beginning to end and prove to us that it is done. It's an issue that I must see to believe. Not that I do not believe what a person may state. I do not want anyone getting the wrong idea and I believe there is still work to be done here. But ultimately, you all get to make your own conclusion. Anyway, that is my .02 on that.

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05-18-2009, 06:52 PM #392
richyrich

What's up jarff! It's been a little while. Hopefully, after this testing I can get back to hydro fully. Been doing the coco thing. I finally got around to setting up one tray for a hydro show.

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05-20-2009, 11:16 PM #401
richyrich

ItsGrowTime, I highly suggest at this point that you get your beneficial from making your own Earth Worm Casting Tea. When it's done brewing they are ready to go. You don't need to prime the rez. That is why I didn't go with the bottled stuff. That and the price. Its super cheap and you can make some within 24 hours whenever you need to re-innoculate your hydro setup. You can keep it in the fridge for up to 10 days. I have been adding some to my EZ Cloner every 3 days. I think it has been 5 days since I put the cuts in the EZ Cloner. Yesterday, I seen the nubs on the cuts from where the roots will shoot out from so I hit them with House & Garden Root Excelurator (amazing stuff) and I have the roots already starting on most of the cuts. My EZ Cloner is running at 84F (edit) which would be frowned upon. I attribute rooting in 5 days to the warmer temps. No slime yet, fingers crossed.

Here is what I got in 5 days.

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05-20-2009, 11:22 PM #403
D.I.trY

thats seriously fucking healthy rooting - really nice! I absolutely agree with you, roots take off at these higher temps. THE reason to use benes regardless of slime!

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05-21-2009, 12:59 AM #404
ItsGrowTime

If I get the results you're getting so far with the UV sterilizer then Ill just kiss beneficials goodbye and stick with the sterilizer. I doubt there's too much difference between homemade compost tea and the bottled stuff to bother with messing with any of it again. Of course Im way jumping the gun here as the sterilizer may fail miserably but your results are encouraging and since this is the 3rd or 4th time Ive been slimed, Im going for the permanent solution. Ive lost way too much time and money (time IS money) from this shit already.

Speaking of which, Im convinced that the slime is in the tap water. I notice the slime issue in the summer months only and of course that is when lakes (source of mine and many other people's tap water) start their algae blooms. During the winter its too cold for the algae to bloom so it's not a problem then. The spores make their way through the purification process and end up in our reservoirs, ready to rock on their newfound food source (res nutes). ETA: Scientifically I "proved" this hypothesis by hitting brand new tap water with Physan. Those of you that have used Physan know that it foams up real bad as it kills nasties and the foam is a gross color with the dead nasties floating in it. Well sure enough the tap water foamed up and some dead nasties floated up on small brownish foam patches. This shit is in the tap water straight from the spigot.

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05-21-2009, 12:41 PM #405
richyrich

Mycostop is developed from a naturally occurring bacteria, Streptomyces griseoviridis, Mycostop Biological Fungicide thrives in the root zone of plants.

Hydroguard (now called Aquashield) is derived from several beneficial bacteria including bacillus subtilis, paenibacillus polymxa, bacillus circulans, and bacillus amyloliquefaciens.

SubCulture-M is a Mycorhizae Root Inoculant that contains a wide diversity of endo and ecto mycorrhizal fungi that colonize plant roots.

SubCulture-B is a probiotic inoculum of beneficial microorganisms that will help increase the vitality and yield in all plants. Whether in soil or hydroponics, our proprietary blend of bacteria and trichoderma fungi colonize the root zone and media to form a symbiotic relationship with your plants.

Advanced Nutrients Tarantula contains 19 types of organic beneficial bacteria that colonize plant roots and leaves, giving you growth and harvest benefits you’ve never imagined.

Advanced Nutrients Piranha is a broad range of trichoderma and other beneficial fungi.

My point of posting all of these bottled and packaged beneficial microbes is to show that none of them contain the full range of microbes in one bottle or package. SubCulture-B seems to have the most, but then notice they only include trichoderma fungi and leave out the endo and ecto fungi. You have to buy SubCulture-M if you want them. It's all marketing crap to charge you a ton of money per bottle or package. I know there are more products out there that may have a fuller range. If anybody knows of any, please, share. I just went with what I knew off the top of my head.

With earth worm casting tea (depending on the way its made) it contains a full range of beneficials; bacterias, endo/ecto fungi and trichoderma fungi on the cheap. And you know they are fresh and active. I shy away from the bottles and packaging because some are dormant and not as ready to go at application and you, also, have to consider shelf life and degradation.

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05-21-2009, 03:10 PM #409
richyrich

By no means am I trying to put down Mycostop or dis-encourage anyone from using it, but Mycostop is only a biological fungicide (fungus, fungi).

Here is something I pulled up on a quick search. I am led to believe that it has no anti-bacterial properties even being that it is a bacteria. The monster that we are battling is a bacteria (a form of cyanobacteria called brown slime algae). Please, correct me if wrong.

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05-21-2009, 09:09 PM #410
richyrich

My mouth dropped today. 26 out of 29 cuts rooted so far in 6 days in the EZ Cloner that I had not been able to use for years. Even though I mastered rockwool, bye bye. I had to show you guys. No slime!!!

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05-22-2009, 03:03 AM #413
richyrich

Yeah, I primed my EZ Cloner with beneficial microbes from the Earth Worm Casting tea I made a few posts back. The beneficials are letting me get away with 84F water temps in that thing. I once even plumbed a water chiller to an EZ Cloner and set it at 68F and was slimed.

Talking about temps, my UV light in the rez is letting me get away with high temps too. Rez is at 78-79F.

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05-23-2009, 12:27 PM #416
opt1c

nice work man

u can't argue with results like that... gotta prime my ez's with some tea for the next run and see what happens... those are some happy cuts

keep fighting the good fight; looks like you're winning this time around

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05-24-2009, 09:40 PM #423
richyrich

Bubba Kush and Cherry ak47. Not really fast ones. Average I would say. Rooting in RW they would take 10-14 days just for the first tap root to show. The amount of roots showing in just 8 days is crazy. When I first used an EZ Cloner (yes it is an original EZ Cloner to the other poster who asked) I got roots like this but never this fast. I have read post where people have swore they got rooting this fast but I was always skeptical. Well I did it, so the skepticism is gone, and this is the first time with no slime. I think I can safely claim victory over the slime at least in the EZ Cloner. I'm still holding my breath on a full on hydro grow, but very optimistic.

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05-24-2009, 09:44 PM #424
richyrich

Good going guys. Yes, stay away from Hygrozyme and Sensizyme in hydro. I have been advocating against it's use in hydro from 2 years ago since I realized that the organics it breaks down are major accellarants for the slime. I believe you are right, DItrY, that the overabundance of food is too great for the beneficials and the clean up crew shows up (slimy cyanos), lol.

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05-24-2009, 09:50 PM #425
richyrich

Sounds promising. Can't wait for the updates and results. You are gonna be the first one to have the slime, neutralize it and then put them into a primed beneficial microbe reservoir. This is one to watch; a true test.

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06-01-2009, 05:16 AM #450
richyrich

Happy to report to you guys that I pulled off a second round of healthy clones from my EZ Cloner. Get this, I didn't even clean the unit nor empty it. I used the same water and just added more EWC tea. Here is something else remarkable; I noticed that a long piece of root had broke off a cutting and was floating in the water. It's been floating in there for 3 days and it is still pearl white. It's not even rotting and if there was slime it would of been all over that organic fuel.

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06-01-2009, 10:29 PM #454
richyrich

Jupiter, welcome to the slime club.

Keep it simple with the ewc tea. 3 gallons of RO water. Add 1-2 cups of ewc and just a tad of molasses and that is it. Do not add humic acids or kelp. It is food for the microbes including the slime.

Do not add any molasses (food) to the cloner. You only want to add a couple of cups of ewc tea every 3rd day to replenish. Do not feed the microbes within, just replace them. The food could of been your problem. Always clean your unit with Physan20. I add power cloner solution made by botanicare to the water and away it goes. That is it.

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06-03-2009, 03:01 PM #455
ItsGrowTime

Just thought Id give a final update on my slime battle. Recovery was 100%! I didn't lose a single plant. It wasted a few weeks and gave me a few gray hairs but other than that the Physan20 treatment, dead root and algae removal wash and immediate beneficial inoculation worked great to save the plants and get new roots started.

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06-10-2009, 06:04 PM #471
richyrich

Zone is a type of chloramine. Chloramines are used in many municipal water supplies for cities to kill pathogens. It is a longer lasting product to use for sterilizing applications in hydro growing. It is not to be used with beneficial microbes. It will kill them and negate their use. At a point it seemed to be the best defense, but this thread has moved course. UV Sterlization lights seem to work best for the complete sterilization route. And, priming a reservoir with beneficial microbes (the right way [read previous posts in this thread about this]) seems to be the winning ticket.

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07-06-2009, 01:51 AM #486
richyrich

Yes, no slime at all with the UV sterlizer in the reservoir. I few pages back in this thread a poster brought up the Sunleaves brand unit and I bought it to try. I was thinking why not, I had tried most things in the past. So far, still good. I would of been slimed long ago.

As far as which is better, I can't make that call yet until I am done. Growth is just as rigorous as can be expected in hydro, though. So far, both ways are working great and I have to say it's about time.

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07-09-2009, 02:59 PM #489
richyrich

UPDATE:

On the UV sterilization route.

I gave myself a case of root rot (pythium) by accidently leaving my water pump power cord unplugged. Some of the roots dried out and died. That is where the root rot took hold. I knew the dead roots would rot and was expecting something. A few days later the pH was dropping way too fast. Attack of the root rot. I dosed with H2O2 and the pH stabilized, root rot dead. Plants are healthy. The problem is getting rid of the old dead roots or it will come back. I am using Cannazyme to eat away all the old roots. This would usually be a no-no, because it is jet fuel for brown algae slime. No slime at all. Pretty good proof that the UV works great.

Here is the difference, and it was talked about earlier by DItrY and agreed upon. If using beneficial microbes the root rot probably would of never got a foot hold. I mentioned previously that I was surprised that I had a dead piece of root floating in my EZ cloner innoculated with bene microbes and it was still pear white after 5 days. Root rot should of been all over that, but it wasn’t. Same thing applies here.

Brown slime algae starts in the reservoir and the UV keeps it away. I have a flood and drain tray where the roots are and they are not innoculated. Very inviting for other problems such as the current root rot. Maybe using SM-90 from the get go would of prevented the root rot from starting on the complete sterile route, but it’s too late for me to tell now.

So, with beneficial microbe innoculation, both the reservoir and the roots in the tray above would of been innoculated. Following the EZ cloner method previously posted may be the best all around ticket. Secondly, if the UV method fails you can always dump the reservoir and make another and innoculate it with bene microbes. Use the simple EWC tea recipe above.

My plants look great right now. I don’t know if the root rot is going to pop back up. Compared to the slime it’s a piece of cake to get rid of or manage. If it keeps coming back, I will switch over to bene microbes on this same run.

There you have it. Some more food for thought on choosing which way you may want to go.

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07-12-2009, 06:46 PM #497
richyrich

That link to the product is a really good idea but it costs wayyy too much. Its a water chiller with a UV built in.

If you need to ever transplant to coco, wash off the roots of the slime and better yet wash them in water and H2O2. You don't always have to use Physan20. Then transplant to coco. The slime needs water to live in. It will not live in the coco medium. I find Physan20 best for washing sterilizing all equipment in between crops

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07-14-2009, 02:27 AM #502
richyrich

You don't have to top up. Just add a little EWC tea to replenish the beneficial microbe population. When cloning, I found that I don't have to prime first. Next time, don't bother waiting 4 days. 3 days is a good frequency to replenish the microbes.

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07-21-2009, 04:14 PM #510
richyrich

Update:

I pulled the UV sterilizer out of my hydro system. I am going to go the beneficial route half way into this grow as I mentioned I might do earlier.

Previously, I posted that I brought on a case of root rot (pythium) upon myself by leaving the water pump unplugged for a while. Some roots dried up and died and the root rot took a foot hold. I have been keeping it away with SM-90 and H2O2. The combo works great, but I have to keep adding it to the rez every so often. I already know the UV keeps the slime away and that was what I wanted to find out.

I have already cleaned the rez and added benes with the microbe housing unit I built from a previous post I shared. We will see how it goes. I expect the same results as I have found in the EZ Cloner.

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07-22-2009, 04:23 AM #513
richyrich

NovoLogics Ultraviolet treatment also photo=oxidizes and destroys combined chlorine and chlorine byproducts such as chloramines and other toxic organic pollutants including bad odors.

Installation: Simply install on your feed water inlet - before any nutrient injection systems. Remember this is a UV broad spectrum sterilizer - not a simple plastic UV clarifier which only gets rid of green water. Novologics all Stainless Steel UV Sterilizer clears green water and completely destroys all bacteria, fungi and other disease causing organisms and actually purifies the water to human drinking water levels.

One of the biggest problems in hydroponic plant production is the bacteria and fungi in the feed water which quickly multiply and can even destroy a crop within a matter of hours or days. Now you can have the assurance that the treated water is free of disease causing organisms.

That right there in bold sets this unit apart. Looks like a really good one to get.

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07-22-2009, 04:43 AM #514
richyrich

This is why the self inflicted pythium will not go away. The UV does not offer protection to my roots that are above the rez in a seperate flood tray. The pythium started on the dead dried out roots and spread to colonize itself to the entire root mass. It is clinging to the roots so it will never make itself to the rez to be zapped by the UV. I wasn't planning on getting pythium, but mistakes happen. Don't get pythium and the UV should take you all the way. The reason UV works for the slime is because it likes to colonize itself in a water environment like a rez. With a UV going in the rez, no slime as I have documented.

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07-23-2009, 12:32 AM #521
richyrich

Please, do read this thread. I know it is quite long. This slime algae is actually a bacteria, cyanobacteria. You are referring blue green algae. Totally different.

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07-24-2009, 07:05 PM #523
richyrich

Maybe you had this one. Blue green algae can be any color.

"Mustard Algae" is probably the MOST misdiagnosed form of algae. Mustard algae is a chlorine-resistant form of green algae (yellow-green to brown in color) typically found in sunbelt areas.

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07-25-2009, 12:31 AM #527
richyrich

Dr. G, all your pics look like some serious root rot from sitting in stagnant water. The roots have suffocated and died. I'm kind of dealing with the same thing right now. If you are still in veg I would remove the plants and cut away as much of the rotted root mass as possible. Give them a H202 bath and put them back into your system. First though, clean your entire system with Physan20 and buy new hydroton. I would say you may have a 50/50 chance of them recovering. Might be more worth while to start over with new clones instead of waiting for them to recover. Get the trays completely draining properly and start off with beneficial microbes from the get go. Read all previous posts on the subject.

On the ph going up, that is usually indicative of the slime. I'm not sure if you have it but by recently adding a zyme product you may have opened the buffet for it to arrive.

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07-27-2009, 03:55 AM #541
richyrich

Treat with H2O2 in the meanwhile. You can get some 3% anywhere. 10ml per gallon.

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07-27-2009, 01:55 PM #543
richyrich

Use UV or H2O2. H2O2 degrades in 2-3 days. Use Physan20 for cleaning and one day nuking.

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07-28-2009, 02:19 PM #547
richyrich

Is it a coating of slime like mucous or just mushy slimy feeling cuts or clones. Clean it off. If they are mushy get rid of them.

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07-28-2009, 10:11 PM #552
richyrich

Dr. G, flush with RO from the top. You don't need to fill the rez and do flood and drains. Spray everything in the tray, on the tray, in pots, etc. and then drain the rez. Then give the rez a rinse and another drain. Add benes right-a-way and use the EWC tea, ALSO!

To the other recent posters. Your answers are within the last few pages.

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07-29-2009, 04:32 PM #556
richyrich

Any EWCs. Just make sure they are not real old.

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07-29-2009, 04:35 PM #557
richyrich

Slime has survived through H202 everyday, SM-90 and etc.. The only thing that suppresses it is Dutch Master Zone. Or you can try UV as I have just done.

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07-29-2009, 04:45 PM #558
richyrich

I'm assuming your 4 gallon containers may be filled with hydroton. You say you have a lot of roots that look dead. If so, you have root rot, also. Not sure if you said you have the slime. Yes, any zyme is jet fuel for the slime. In your case though, you have no choice. You need to start using a zyme to break down the dead roots. From experience, zymes will not get rid of all the dead roots and the problem will persist. Incorporate a regiment of Zone and [H2O2 everyday]. Forget the benes at this time because they will never overcome the amount of rot you have. I would advise a good H2O2 bath of your roots and removal of all dead matter. I don't know if your setup allows for that. If you can get rid of all the dead roots mass then go back to benes. Oh, and nuke everything with Physan20 if you go that way.

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07-30-2009, 09:13 PM #564
richyrich

I'm not sure on that. It demands some researching. The UV will keep the slime from colonizing. You could go with some SM-90 to keep root rot from colonizing too and, while at it, why not dose with H2O2 every other day. I think that would make the ultimate sterilizing cocktail.

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07-31-2009, 03:15 PM #567
richyrich

My recommendations at this point are:

For brown slime algae -- physan20 all equipment and go with beneficial microbes right off the bat. I recommend inoculating with EWC tea and some aqua shield. Re-inoculate every week to keep the colony super strong and thriving. Do not add carb products like carbo load or molasses. This will keep the slime and root rot away. You will not get the rot as long as you don't drown your roots. Nothing can fight that. They will suffocate and die off. The microbes will keep the rot from starting though. Keep an eye on the colony and roots.

Or if you prefer the sterile route, go UV light in the rez to keep away the slime and SM-90 to keep away the root rot. Same thing as above goes for drowning roots. If this happens and the rot overcomes the chemicals then you need to H2O2 it every day until done. Of course after cleaning all the dead roots out (I mean ALL of them). At this point I do not know how effective Zone is on root rot. I haven't had root rot in forever so I haven't tried it. The current self-inflicted root rot I treated with SM-90 doing what I just recommended.

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08-01-2009, 07:12 AM #569
richyrich

I am currently running my hydro setup with beneficial microbes and cannazyme. No sign of slime. I'd say go for it with the zyme. Just keep an eye out. You never know what can happen.

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08-01-2009, 03:41 PM #572
richyrich

I learned to root cuts like a pro a few years ago when I was constantly getting slimed in my EZ Cloners. I learned to use rockwool. I don't like rapid rooters. They work really well, but dry out way too fast. They require constant observance because once they dry out the cuts are done.

Prep rockwool at 5.5 straight RO water. Dip cuts in clonex. Make a hole with a nail between the corner and the pre-made hole of a 1.5 inch rockwool cube. Dont stick the cut all the way to the bottom, just before. Put in a nursery flat. Don't put more than 30-40 in each. They need room to breath. Cover with a dome for the first 3 days. Take the dome off each day and flip it upside down to release stale air and I usually blow on the cuts. Put the lid back on. Don't water until the cubes are nearly dry. This make the roots come out faster. Around day 5-7, you should notice that some of the cuts leaves are looking perky. This usually indicated the root nubs are forming. This is the time you can start to feed at a ppm of 500 (.5 conversion) and a root stimulator would be nice. Of course, don't do this until a watering is required depending on the dryness of the cube. Only use a 15-25 watt floro over them. Roots should be exploding in 10-14 days. make sure the mothers are healthy.

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08-04-2009, 07:25 PM #577
richyrich

I once felt the same way about the cloners, but not anymore. I have had several successful rotations of rootings ever since using EWC tea.

I have several water chillers that are filled with sludge. I have no immediate use for them and was pondering the same. A zyme product will not be strong enough. Might want to look into sulfuric acid. I know my local hardware store stocks it next to the draino. It is the last resort when draino can't do the job. I have used it for the household drains and it works wonders.

Most water pumps come apart. If they do give them a good scrub down with some cleaning utensils. If they are sealed, maybe a sulfuric acid bath.

Note: Don't be afraid of the sulfuric acid. It is not going to eat your skin off in seconds if you get it on yourself. Eyes would be another story.

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08-04-2009, 09:16 PM #579
richyrich

Do exactly that, but first clean away all the dead roots. I believe you are doing DWC (bubble buckets) if I remember right. Then it's easy to clean them. Pull away all the dead matter. Even get out the scissors if you have to. If you don't get rid of all the dead and rotting roots you are going to be in the same place. Root rot!

Since you started bloom there will only be a little bit of fast root growth in the first few weeks. Get a root stimulator and add that with the EA & EN to help the roots along. By the way, EA & EN are very good microbe products.

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08-06-2009, 03:12 PM #582
richyrich

Kind a steered away from Zone a while ago. Use the Physan20 to kill and clean everything. Rinse real well. Zone is for sterilizing and it suppresses but not enough. Especially, if you are not going to get a water chiller and have high temps then go with a UV light for the sterilization avenue. If you want to run higher temps go with beneficial microbes as the safe bet. It should all be in the last 10 pages or so.

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08-07-2009, 05:15 AM #587
richyrich

It's easiest to separate the roots under water. Use a tub, etc.. You have to get them apart. Those old roots are your rot source. Molest them, break them or cut them. Most likely they are going to recover. If you can't do it you are going to have problems all the way through. It would be best to start over if you choose otherwise.

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08-07-2009, 05:20 AM #589
richyrich

For sure make your own and its super cheap. It is EWC tea. I have been adding all kinds of cocktails lately. AquaShield, Great White powder and root excelurator (it is a microbe). Read through the posts. Some are having success with other products.

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08-09-2009, 12:07 AM #600
richyrich

You got it right.

"Two-part mycorrhizal inoculants, Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia, are for use with soil gardening and in hydroponics systems. When Earth Nectar, containing the concentrated mycorrhizal cultures, is mixed with Earth Ambrosia, the fuel delivery system for the active cultures, they infuse the growing medium with mycorrhiza resulting in stronger plants and increased crop yields. For use with soil or hydroponics

Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia are great for use in cloning systems. Used together in these solutions they prevent and protect tender young clones from the slimy buildup that sometimes occurs when the water is not changed often enough. Using these solutions will help bad microbes from attacking and rotting young rooting stems, andd will instead inspire your clones to grow the healthy white roots you are searching for."

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08-13-2009, 01:50 AM #604
richyrich

The simplest of recipes is needed for our cause. Earth worm castings to harness the microbes and a sugar source.

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08-13-2009, 03:12 AM #608
richyrich

Yes, simple EWC Tea is all you need. Best part is that it is super cheap.

Off the shelf stuff: Great White, EA & EN, etc.; I like to add AquaShield in addition; and Root Excelurator, also. There are a lot out there. Just don't add mollasses or carb products to the rez with them. You could have an overgrowth that will mess with your pH, and if your good microbe colony is not doing so well, then you will just have opened the free buffet line for the slime

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08-24-2009, 08:03 PM #625
richyrich

This is post #452 below from June this year.

This was advice for use in an EZ Cloner. Same applies for your rez or DWC buckets. If you follow the simple EWC Tea formula, then you really can't add too much. Too little, then you might not get the benefits... you should get the drift. MAKE SURE you replenish the colony around ever 3rd day.

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08-24-2009, 08:07 PM #626
richyrich

I would advise all to start reading at post #301 if you want to start reading about the solutions to the hydro herpe -- slime.

I'm out for now. Good luck growing all. The curse is over.

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08-25-2009, 03:56 PM #628
richyrich

I take it the drift is un-obtainable. EZ Cloners range from 5-12 gallons. A simple search would of yielded that answer. Just say the cloner is 10 gallons.

"If the seeing blind must be led..."

Just use 1-2 cups per 10 gallons. That is more than plenty.

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08-26-2009, 04:15 AM #630
richyrich

Hydro, cloner... same thing. Apply the same directions to both. The answers to every specific combination of questions you ask are within this thread. You have to put the puzzle pieces together to answer your questions. If you do not understand the puzzle pieces, re-read until you do. There is a reason not to use enzymes in hydro. There is a reason to replenish often. The current advice is not to feed them. Only add more as they die off. Using enzymes is jet fuel for slime. Also, microbes don't have anything to attach to in hydro as good as in a soil or coco type medium. Look at a bottle of AquaShield (old Hydroguard) it says to apply every 4-7 days for hydro. For soil it says every 30-60 days. Same reason. Every 3 days is not a hard fast rule. It is what I found best for myself. Play around with it and find out what works for you. That is how you dial in your grow.

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08-26-2009, 05:10 PM #632
richyrich

I wouldn't worry about the light when brewing. You only need to brew for 24 hours. Could do 48 if you want to make them multiply more. Not sure exactly what types are in there. I know you get beneficial bacteria, fungi (myces) and protozoa. Can't get all of them out of a bottle at the shop. It does the job alone. If u want to make a cocktail like I have, add some AguaShield for the bacillus. Add a little Great White powder for a full array of benes. Make them multiply in the brew. You will have a super colony ready to go. I have even added Great White powder to my rez without EWC tea. It works, just have to know how to use it. Do not add sugar or carb products to any hydro system such as carbo load, sweet and etc. Read labels. They work great in soil, coco, and feeding benes in a tea brew.

I'll tell you what will do you know wrong and is super easy in hydro. Flora Nova and Floralicious; they are all you need. Nova has plenty of cal and mag. Floralicious makes wonderful tasting and smelling buds. I first started with this before the slime and my friends, old smoking heads, said my first crops were the best ever. Then I started getting caught up in all the nutrient and supplement hype. Then I ran into all kinds of problems. A lot of people call these things snake oils. You don't need them. KISS

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08-26-2009, 05:42 PM #634
richyrich

Who would of thought you could get away with 83 temps, especially in DWC. Good going

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08-27-2009, 03:12 PM #635
richyrich

I have seen the same question ongoing in another forum. It took me 1 simple search to find the answer. Maybe more belief will come from a company that makes tea products. Do a google on Vermi T. Here is a cut and paste from their website.

1. How long does the Vermi T liquid Solution last after dispensed from the Extractor?
Vermi T Solution will last for 12-24 hrs at room temperature or 7-10 days in the refrigerator. Vermi T should smell earthy and fresh. Smells objectionable when bad

2. At what rate do I apply Vermi T Solution to my plants?
For Soil: Dilute with water at a rate of 75 ml to gallon (1:50) Vermi to water. Apply directly to soil over root zone. For Hydroponics: Dilute with water at a rate of 75 ml to gallon (1:50) Vermi to water. Reintroduce Vermi T to your Hydroponics garden every 7-10 days

This company recommends 1/3 of a cup per gallon. ***[Correction, I spaced.] I say use 1-2 cups per 10 gallons as said before, just a few posts ago; post #626. *** I have not pulled this out of the air. Have some faith in what you are reading in this thread. It was not made up out of thin air and if you read and re-read, the answers are in here.

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08-28-2009, 05:44 PM #637
richyrich

It was not an issue of belief. It was just about following advice.

I doubt you will find anyone prior to this thread in these forums using EWC Tea in their hydro set-ups. At least, I couldn't find anyone or anything on it with the search function.

More advice for anyone that may have not caught on yet:

Nothing out of a bottle from a store will give you the diversity you can make for so cheap yourself. Except, maybe that VermiT stuff I mentioned. But, they charge about $25 for a gallon.

You could use pirahna, tarantula, sub-culture, AquaShield, and on n on. They like to bottle all of their stuff separate more maximum $$$. And then most direct you to feed the microbes. This is fine in soil or coco, but it will result in absolute failure in a hydro set-up. If you don't get the slime you will get an over abundance of bene microbes and it will look like slime, too; biofilm. It will suffocate your roots, too.

So, only add the most diverse amount of microbes to your set-up. Only feed them in the brew and not in your system. Make EWC Tea, the absolute cheapest and most diverse colony, or buy bottles from the store, but you will have to mix multiple bottles to get full protection. DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT FEED THE COLONY IN YOUR HYDRO SET-UP/SYSTEM. That means NO carb or enzyme products.

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09-07-2009, 10:41 PM #645
richyrich

No UV on my RO filter. I'm not 100% sure that a UV on the RO filter would be effective at killing spores. All the research I did and posted on this way back concluded that the spores pretty much live through anything; even the bombardment of UV radiation. The only options I have found effective once infected are UV in the rez to destroy the slime once it becomes active from its spore state and beneficial microbes as a combative measure.

I agree, benes should not be killed off with the use of a UV sterilizer; but only after the bene microbes have established a foothold in the hydro system.

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09-08-2009, 02:41 PM #647
richyrich

I can only share my experiences, and I couldn't say for sure that I would have been able to avoid the slime by using UV. I already have it. And, reiderating a previous statement, from what I have researched, spores will basically survive on this planet if we were to be wiped off the face of the earth.

When I did begin to grow, I too, use to go to the Glacier vending machines and haul 5 gallon containers. I had no problems then. So, there could be something there. It's too late for me. Because, I too did try to go back to the machines thinking it was my source water and I got slimed. I think I tried every possible avenue. My suspected source of infection was from a gifted clone from an EZ Cloner. I should have been suspicious when I seen several empty gallon containers of SuperOxy at this person site. I was a newbie and knew no better yet. That is my experience. Not knocking UV down. Just too late for me IMO. Probably a good preventative measure for one who has not been slimed.

You have shared that you were infected and have resolved it by using the machine water. That sounds promising. I am sure someone here will do the same and, hopefully, share the results.

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09-08-2009, 09:43 PM #651
richyrich

Quite possible. I always clean with tap since so much is needed. For me, I feel kinda burnt out from all the experimenting. Even though I have one small hydro set up running for kicks, I really dig DTW coco. Don't have to worry about any of this stuff and still get the quick hydro like growth.

I don't think it's too much to get a good UV light addition to my RO unit. Who knows, I may incorporate it later.

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09-10-2009, 04:08 PM #656
richyrich

The point of using the EWC Tea is to harness the beneficial bacteria to out compete and fend off the brown slime (algae) that is already present. I believe the amount of spores that might be present after cleaning a system with tap water or non-uv ro water would be trivial compared to the army of benes that are being used in the EWC Tea; that is the whole point of using them if not going the sterile route. And it has worked for me several times over and others here.

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09-10-2009, 04:21 PM #658
richyrich

This is one of the worst things you can do if you are infected; the use of an enzyme. I read this exact article and tried it long ago, and that is how I found out enzymes are jet fuel for brown slime (algae). It has been reported by others here, too.

This one article that has been copied and pasted is bad advice and a terrible contradiction:

"All of these nasties require organic matter to feed on."
". . . also using an enzymatic additive like Hygrozyme that will break down the unwanted organic matter in the reservoir."

The problem is that the enzyme breaks down the organic matter and it is still organic matter! Jet fuel for those of us who have experienced it.

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09-13-2009, 10:02 PM #662
richyrich

Drop the Hygrozyme ASAP. UV sterilization will not work for you with a non re-circulating DWC set-up. Disinfect with Physan20 (or H2O2) -- everything; roots and buckets -- and stay with FloraNova. Brew some EWC Tea for microbes and go at it. Keep up on the microbe colony and you should have smooth sailing. Read the previous few pages for directions on tea and application. Will be worth your while to read this thread in it's entirety -- know your enemy.

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09-16-2009, 03:08 PM #669
richyrich

Ph is not an issue at first, but once you see nubs growing from the cuts you do need to ph. Those nubs are the beginning of the roots and the, now, plant is ready to uptake nutes. If you don't ph, they are going to be locked out for nute uptake.

Only using agua shield (hydroguard) was bound for failure. This has already been touched on earlier in this thread. The only thing you need is properly made ewc tea. Advised to replenish every 3 days to keep up your super army of bene microbes to crush the slime.

The best cloning hormone is botanicare power clone solution. Not a gel, a liquid solution added to the cloner water. Probably similar to the olivias, but i'm not sure olivias contains any rooting hormone.

Ewc tea and botanicare power clone solution gave me the explosive results you see in my signature below in 5 days. This was after more than 2 years of chronic failure with my ez cloners.

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09-21-2009, 03:52 PM #675
richyrich

I use the carbo load. Use 10-15mL. Here is another good tip. Add some Great White or Plant Success Soluble Mycorrhizae. They are powder form benes. Add them to the brew and they will multiply, too. You will have a super soldier brew.

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09-21-2009, 03:56 PM #676
richyrich

Sounds right. That pump is fine. I use a tiny one. Maybe buy a new bag of ewc from somewhere else. They could of been old; you never know. Something was off. Also, make sure to replenish every 3 days as a good rule of thumb. Make sure to sterilize all equipment real good before use. This is the most time consuming. Good luck. I recommend u clone mainly with RRs and do the cloner on the side until it works.

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09-21-2009, 04:36 PM #678
richyrich

Yes, the other stuff is just a extra kick for the brew. You only need EWC, carbo load and an air stone. Brew 24 hours and ready to go. Should have some froth and an earthy smell when done.

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09-21-2009, 08:56 PM #680
richyrich

EWC should be good I would think. Don't use bleach; use physan20 or H2O2. Possible for the old pucks to hold water at the point where they hold the cut and keep the cuts logged in stagnant water; causing cut stem to go limp and die. Just a guess.

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09-23-2009, 02:55 PM #682
richyrich

Cool temps may hinder their growth. Let it go 48 hours total. Get it into an environment of near 70F. Sometimes I don't get a lot of froth. Sometimes it's just a small layer on top, but you should have some. More froth equals more bene growth. That is what you want. Get into the habit of making new brew every week. And in time you can add the other things I stated above to the brew. You can also add agua shield to your rez, not in the brew; for more diverse soldiers.

More hints:
I just dump everything in the bucket. No sock or nylon hung over bucket. When done I screen the brew with cheese cloth (or you could use a cooking strainer) into a container then fridge it. Toss remaining after 7-10 days. Also, a good idea when checking your brew to give it a little stir (agitation) with a stick (etc.).

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09-24-2009, 04:08 AM #685
richyrich

Thank you for sharing that. It is very important and it was discussed long ago; kinda got lost back there. There has, also, been talk about using a protein skimmer in a rez to get rid of floating matter. Absolutely, as I stated long ago, enzymes equal jet fuel or the opening of the buffet line, lol. Brown algae slime derives its energy from organic matter instead of photosynthesis. That is why I have constantly countered every newb comment in here about light leaks causing it. Do cover light leaks though.

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09-25-2009, 07:40 PM #694
richyrich

Yes, still doing FTW with coco. Did one hydro show with UV. EWC tea only in EZ Cloner. Others here have used the tea in hydro with success. I have used root excelurator with no ill results. EWC, I believe, contains bene bacteria, bene mycs, bene protozoa and bene nematodes. I think I put this up way back in this thread somewhere.

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09-28-2009, 01:31 PM #699
richyrich

I find myself having too much often. You could go with brewing just a gallon or two a week. I would fridge the left over brew for 7 days, 10 days stretching it. If it ever stinks then toss it.

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10-09-2009, 09:46 AM #702
richyrich

Everyone may perceive the smell different. To me it is earthy, could be taken for a musty type smell. As long as it does not stink. You will know stink. You should be okay. As long as you have a good source of air pumping through you shouldn't have any anaerobic activity. They do not like air (oxygen).

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10-09-2009, 09:50 AM #703
richyrich

It can be in the beginning, but once you get your own routine down it will not seem like it anymore.

Yield is excellent in coco and easy to work with. Way better than soil and never any worries about slime or root rot. Always a viable alternative to hydro. I'm still playing with the hydro. Next is going to be a tray and lid with an aero manifold going on inside. Rez under tray. Think of it like a big EZ Cloner for flowering. Should be interesting. It's gonna be a while. I'm taking a little break.

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10-15-2009, 12:42 PM #706
richyrich

You will not be disappointed with the coco. Oh yeah!, DWC is the fastest I ever grew, too. Was my first system. Coco is good though and absolutely no worries about the slime. Do a search on Pico's manifold for a drip system for your coco. It will make things much easier instead of hand watering. Hook it up to a pump and cycle timer and you can walk away for days. Much luck growing.

I have 3 water chillers for sale too, lol.

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10-15-2009, 12:45 PM #707
richyrich

Organics Alive and Vermi T, also, are good, but they cost a lot. Can get the same thing out of making your own EWC Tea and spicing it up with some water soluble powdered Plant Success Great White Mycorrhizae on the cheap.

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10-18-2009, 03:14 PM #714
richyrich

Carbo Load and enzymes are a big NO NO! Follow ItsGrowTime's advice above.

If you read about CarboLoad, it is what I use for making my EWC tea. I had it left over after learning long ago that it creates instant slime explosions.

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10-21-2009, 04:23 PM #723
richyrich

I should of mentioned I usually let my tea go 48 hours which most likely allows for the benes to use all 15mL of the sugars. Good idea to consider less. Maybe 5-10mL or brew an extra 24 hours. Good idea to strain your teas with cheese cloth over a funnel, too.

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10-26-2009, 10:14 PM #730
opt1c

i did a lot of research on the tea brewing process; compost tea manual 5th edition is pretty on point i've found. in there i gleaned that teas are at their best after 18-24 hours of brewing; 24 for slightly colder climates and as quick as 18 for warmer climates; the shorter brewing time allows for more microbial diversity; longer brewing times result in microbial monocultures as one strain quickly dominates the rest. these are what researchers saw under microscopes in controlled experiments. additionally, they recommend that you remove your aeration device, air stones in most cases, from the brewing vessel; turn them off; and let the tea sit for 30 minutes. after that scoop whatever is needed off the top; the sediment having settled to the bottom by this time, sorta like bubble bags. this, of course, applies to heavily aerated ewc teas; i've found that i've had the best results with my teas using this method; it just sucks because the optimal window is rather small although it's worth the extra effort if you're doing whatever it takes to beat the slime

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10-27-2009, 12:22 AM #732
richyrich

Yes, roots will stay stained. I notice that a lot of you guys grow in DWC, so it is rather easy to clean and trim away slimed roots. Don't be scared to hack away. Good rule of thumb is that you should be okay to cut around 1/3 of the roots off.

Here is a predicament that has not been addressed yet for other types of setups besides DWC. For instance, what if you get slimed in a flood and drain setup where all the roots are in pots or buckets of hydroton. I have done this and and this is the only time I will advocate it -- enzymes (yeah the jet fuel). The roots are already slime so no worries at this point. Do a Physan nuke to your sytem and then dump. Make up a fresh rez and add your choice of enzyme product. Add Dutch Master Zone and H2O2 (every day) for a week. Dump that rez and all the old dead slimed roots should be gone by the action of the enzymes. Fill rez with water only and nuke again by adding Physan. This will kill off anything that might have gotten past the Zone and H2O2 and will give a rinse. Dump that rez. Make a fresh rez with nutes and this time add your EWC tea. Keep a careful eye over them. If your ph is usually stable, and you notice that the ph is creeping upwards to quick -- the slime is probably back. At that point, from experience, it is not worth trying to save. Start over instead of wasting time and being disappointed.

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10-27-2009, 01:15 AM #734
richyrich

The brown staining will stay. Your UV is probably better than the sunleaves. Nothing will grow in the water. You should be fine in DWC. It's the systems where the roots are not constantly in water is where there can be failure. For example, roots in pots in a flood and drain system. UV can't do anything for the roots in the pots.

Disinfect with Physan. Clean away all dead root matter. Add fresh nute mix to system. Add UV sterilizer.

UV or EWC tea. One or the other in DWC, not both.

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11-02-2009, 01:26 PM #744
richyrich

The guys at the shops have NO clue on this--generally speaking. After finding this out years ago, well, you have my quest documented here. Follow the advice to the T, given to you here or you will fail to fight it.

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11-02-2009, 02:37 PM #745
ItsGrowTime

You must get Physan. There may be a product or two that works but it's not worth buying a bunch of stuff that's not sure to work. Physan20 is guaranteed to work. Like richy said, treat it like has been described in the thread the last 10 pages or so. Any deviation is a waste of time and just puts your plants further at risk.

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11-07-2009, 03:43 PM #761
ItsGrowTime

Are you even reading my replies to your posts? I addressed this already.

UV won't do anything for an already infected root system and H2O2 is a waste of time. Physan kills it. Simple as that. If you use the Physan for a day, dump the entire res contents, clean the root mass of dead algae and damaged roots, fill with fresh water and use beneficial bacteria and chemical nutes only, the slime will not come back in that res. If you use UV in the fresh water without beneficials the UV will kill the algae spores before they get a chance to reinfect the roots. If you introduce organic matter (fuel for slime) back into the fresh water then yes it can come right back if you don't inoculate your roots with bacteria or sterilize with UV. You MUST deal with this stuff methodically or you'll just end up frustrated.

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11-13-2009, 04:44 AM #774
richyrich

Good read from Maximum Yield mag.

Hydroponic H2O: Water Quality and Treatment

by Dr. Lynette Morgan

2009-10-01

* Print
* Email

Good quality water is vital for a healthy hydroponic system, but just because what comes out of the tap is clean, clear and good to drink, doesn’t mean your plants will love it as well. Water quality and treatment focuses on making water safe for us, even if that means using disinfectant chemicals to kill human pathogens.

Secondary focuses are in treating water so it won’t cause us other hassles such as pipe corrosion, scale formation on appliances, unwanted odors and staining minerals. However, with municipal water treatment no real concern is given to plants or hydroponic systems, so growers are on their own in determining if their water supply is a problem and what to do about it.

Municipal water supplies

Many indoor gardeners are reliant on municipal water supplies and have few other options for a better quality water source. It’s likely that some plant losses have and do occur as a result of some municipal water supplies, particularly in sensitive species and in water culture systems where there is no media to act as a buffer. On the other hand, many municipal water supplies are quite suitable and given that they have had organic matter and pathogens removed already, are a good deal as far as hydroponic systems go. Interestingly plants have rather different responses and requirements from a water supply than humans and this is where problems can occur. Municipal water treatment ensures that drinking water meets the World Health Organization (WHO) and EPA standards for mineral, chemical and biological contamination levels, making it generally very safe to drink and use. However, what is safe for us to drink may not be so good for plant growth, particularly when we consider many hydroponic systems are recirculating which allows build up of unwanted contaminants in the plant root zone.

Recirculating solution culture systems such as NFT have less buffering capacity to water treatment chemical residues than organic media-based systems.

Water treatment options used by municipal suppliers change over time and hydroponic growers should be aware of the implications of these. Many years ago the main concern was the use of chlorine as a disinfection agent to destroy bacteria and human pathogens. Chlorine had the advantage in that it disinfected water effectively; however, residual chlorine in water sources, which could often be detected by smell, could be toxic to sensitive plants and where it built up in certain hydroponics systems. Also when chlorine reacts with organic matter it forms substances (trihalomethanes) which are linked to increased risk of cancer and other health problems. Chlorine was, however, quite easy to remove from water with the use of aeration or even just aging the water a few days before irrigating plants. In the 1990’s it was found that some organisms such as Cryptosporidium were resistant to chlorine and the resulting health issues from this meant that drinking water regulations were changed and alternative disinfection methods began to be used. These included use of ozone and UV light, chloramines (chlorine plus ammonia) and chlorine dioxide.

Filtration, flocculation, settling, UV and ozone used for water supply treatment are non problematic as far as hydroponic systems go, as they leave no residue and are effective. However, use of chloramines and some of the other chemicals by municipal water treatment plants may still pose problems where high levels are regularly dosed into water supplies. Chloramines are much more persistent than chlorine and take a lot longer to dissipate from treated water, so gardeners who are concerned can use a couple of different treatment methods just as those with aquarium fish often choose to do. There are specifically designed activated carbon filters which can remove most of the chloramines in a domestic water supply and also ‘dechloraminating’ chemical or water conditioners available in pet shops. Carbon filters must be of the correct type that have a high quality granular activated carbon and allow a longer contact time which is required for chloramines removal. Even then not every trace may be removed, but levels are lowered enough to prevent problems. Use of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is also used in the industry, and by laboratories to remove chloramines from water after they have done their disinfection job.

Chemicals are also added to drinking water to adjust its hardness or softness, pH and alkalinity. Water that is naturally acidic is corrosive to pipes and sodium hydroxide may be added to reduce this. Sodium is a contaminate we don’t need in hydroponic systems, but may be present at surprisingly high levels in certain water supplies. Domestic water softeners may also contaminate the water with sodium which is not seen as a problem for drinking, but can run amuck with a well balanced hydroponic system and sodium sensitive crop.
What water problems may look like

It’s extremely difficult to determine if something in the water supply is causing plant growth problems. Root rot pathogens may originate in water, but they can come from a number of sources, including fungal spores, blown in dust or brought in by insects. Mineral problems can be a little easier to trace if the water supply analysis is available to check levels of elements. Plant problems which may be caused by water treatment chemicals are difficult to diagnose as some plants are much more sensitive than others and the type of system also plays a role. Research studies have reported that chloramines in hydroponic nutrient solutions can cause growth inhibition and root browning in susceptible plants. One study reported that the critical chloramines amount at which lettuce plant growth was significantly inhibited was 0.18 mg Cl/g root fresh weight, however, the levels at which some other species would be damaged is as yet undetermined. Similar problems exist with the use of other water treatment chemicals; chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are good disinfection agents, but too much in the hydroponic nutrient will cause root damage and just what is a safe level is dependant on a number factors such as the level of organic loading in the system.
Hard water

Hard water is water that has a high mineral content, usually calcium and magnesium, with calcium present as calcium carbonate or calcium sulfate. Hard water can occur in wells and municipal sources and has a tendency to form hard lime scale on surfaces and equipment. A hard water supply is generally not a major problem for hydroponic gardens; calcium and magnesium are useful elements for plant uptake, however, high levels in the water can upset the balance of a nutrient solution making other ions less available. Commercial growers routinely use hard water supplies and adjust their nutrient formulation to take into account the Ca and Mg naturally occurring in the water and also adjust for any alkalinity problems with water acidification. Smaller growers can use one of the many excellent ‘hard water’ nutrient products on the market to get a similar effect.
Ground water – wells

Many commercial hydroponics growers use well water for hydroponic systems and adjust their nutrient formulations to suit the natural mineral content of their water supply. Smaller growers would be advised to find out what is in their well water source just to check for potential problems as water which has percolated through soils tends to pick up some minerals and in some areas, high levels of unwanted elements such as sodium or trace elements. Well water can also contain pathogens and may need treatment before use, although often it is just the mineral levels that need adjustment. Water from dams, lakes and springs is usually similar to well water, but can contain much higher levels of sediment, organic matter and fungal pathogen spores.
Rain water

Rain water collection can be a good way to bypass problems with municipal or well water in some areas; however, there are still some risks. Acid rain from industrial areas, sodium in coastal sites and high pathogen spore loads in agricultural areas can still occur. Generally rain water is low in minerals, but in the process of collection from roofs and other surfaces, can collect wind blown dust and fungal spores. While this is generally not a problem for healthy plants, rain water should be treated before use with young seedlings and clones where pathogens could infect sensitive tissue and open wounds.
Solutions to water quality problems

Organic material such as coconut fiber gives a greater buffering capacity for some water problems, including residues from chemical water treatments, than solution culture systems. Drain to waste media systems are also useful where the water supply contains unwanted elements such as sodium as these aren’t as susceptible to the accumulation that can occur where the solution is recirculated over a long period of time. Where problems with unwanted minerals and very hard water exist, frequent changing and replacement of the nutrient in the system can also be useful to keep things in balance. Water with a high alkalinity will need considerably more acid to keep the pH down to acceptable levels than water with low alkalinity; however, by acidifying the water first before making up a nutrient solution or adding to the reservoir, much less acid will need to be added to the system to adjust pH over time.

There are a range of other treatment options that indoor gardeners can use to improve the quality of their water supply. If pathogen contamination is an issue, slow sand filtration is one of the most effective methods, although perhaps not that practical for those with limited space. Chemical disinfection methods for pathogen control include hydrogen peroxide, chlorine and other compounds, although care should be taken that most of the active chemical has dissipated before the water is used to make up the nutrient solution. Heat, distillation, reverse osmosis and UV treatment can all be used for pathogen control, with many small RO and UV treatment systems now on the market. UV filters for aquariums can be used for small hydroponic growers to treat water with good success, provided sufficient contact time is allowed. If excess minerals or unwanted elements such as sodium are present in a water supply, reverse osmosis (RO) or distillation can be used to remove these. Organic matter in ground water sources can be removed with settling and filtration and treatment with H2O2, while chemical contamination problems and removal of water treatment compounds are more easily treated with the correct type of activated carbon filter with a sufficient contact time.
Super-charged water for hydroponics

While it seems logical that pure, clean and demineralized water is the best place to start when making up a hydroponic nutrition solution, the possibility of creating a water source that has certain benefits for plants is a relatively new concept. Water is not just a carrier for essential nutrient ions, the nutrient solution becomes a whole biological system in its own right with organic matter, root exudates, various species of microbes including fungi, bacteria and their by-products (both good and bad), beneficial and unwanted mineral elements and a range of ‘additives’ growers may be using. Some studies have found that inexplicable growth increases could be obtained using certain ground water sources compared to rain or RO (essentially pure) water to make up a hydroponic nutrient solution indicating there may be natural factors in such waters which have benefits. Not all ground water sources have this effect; in fact, some can have negative influences on plant growth. Furthermore, another essential plant nutrient – oxygen in dissolved form - is usually present in water supplies; however, some water treatment processes can drive much of the dissolved oxygen (DO) out of a water source. In theory it would be possible to not only remove those things in the water we don’t want – pathogen spores, unwanted minerals, chemical residues from water treatment - but to also ‘boost’ the water with useful properties such as a high DO content, a population of useful and disease suppressant microbes and some natural and potentially beneficial minerals and compounds. One way of achieving this would be with the use of slow sand filters or mineral filters for water supplies which are inoculated with beneficial microbes and with oxygenation of the water for a few days before making up nutrient solutions or topping up reservoirs. Further down the track we may see quicker and easier methods of ‘supercharging’ water for hydroponic systems, taking water quality to a whole new level of science.

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11-22-2009, 01:54 PM #782
richyrich

Pythium is root rot. This brown slime algae is a completely different animal. It is ravaging once you get it. The first distinction is that root rot does not cause a slime like brown slime algae. IME, I find root rot minor to a brown slime algae infestation.

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11-22-2009, 01:57 PM #783
richyrich

One bit of advice for folks running sealed rooms. If you have a charcoal filter running to scrub your air, I would get one of those HEPA filters in conjunction with that to catch spores, etc. from the room. They are the filters that you can attach to your inline fan and they look like car performance air filters.

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11-25-2009, 05:10 PM #789
40AmpstoFreedom

I bought an EZ-Cloner and around day 8-10 of me using it for the first time I got the slime. I went out and immediately bought a water chiller and set it to 74. Slime was held off for a bit enough for me to read about using Earthworm castings tea and I used the tea around day 15 or so. It took roots to show on some 25-30 days!!!! Ouch...

Second use: Clean it out with bleach water etc start it up a couple of days later. This time I forgo the 400$ water chiller and add 1 cup of earthworm casting tea and this is what I see on day 7-8 with 0 sign of slime:

Reservoir temp sits from 84-89 degrees

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11-25-2009, 05:52 PM #790
richyrich

Excellent. Root explosion just like my pics. Quick rooting and high temps, awesome.

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1-26-2009, 10:32 PM #791
ItsGrowTime

Wow! Those are some impressive roots. My cloning runs have been 2 for 2 in my bubbler since I started adding AquaShield to the water and keeping the water temps in the low 70s. Nice work. You'll barely even have to veg those plants.

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12-11-2009, 03:04 PM #806
ItsGrowTime

Beneficial bacteria like subtilis in the reservoir water to colonize the root zone is the best preventative measure. I don't know what products you have in the EU that do this. Google search it (beneficial bacteria plant roots or similar) and Im sure youll find some things.

It's curable but you need to use Physan or something very similar to kill the slime in the water and on the roots first. You're going to have a hard time beating it if you can't get a product that will kill the slime. I still think bleach will be your best option if you can't find a proper slime killer quickly. It's not a great solution but you need a "nuclear" option if your plants are that slimed. Messing around with H2O2 is a waste of time. The slime WILL kill your plants first! About 10 pages back I detail how I've successfully killed the slime and saved my plants. In the future use a beneficial bacteria supplement. DItry talks about bokashi juice (or whatever) but it's nothing special, just another form of beneficial bacteria. There's a bunch of products available that do the same thing. It just depends on what you have available in your country. Also keep in mind that even if you kill all the slime your plants will be stunted and will have to grow new roots. This may take a long time depending on how big your plants are. Your yield will probably suck. There comes a point where you just have to say "fuck it" and start over, doing it the right way from the start of the crop. Only you know when that point is but the slime is VERY nasty and doesn't go away easily. You will be dealing with it over and over if you don't learn how to prevent it in the first place.

ETA: No, light does not promote the growth. ORGANIC matter in the water does promote slime growth.

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12-10-2009, 07:33 PM #802
D.I.trY

I am becomming increasingly convinced the easiest way to innoculate your whole system to make it immune to the slime (plus just about all the evil infections) is bokashi juice , or lacto bacilli (which is the main bacteria used in bokashi). There is a thread in organics (soil) forum on how to breed this bacteria using rinsed rice water and milk. You could have your own antibiotics in 10 days - and not only is it non toxic, its very good for you. Remember that the plant actually favours the good guys by making food and transporting it to the roots to feed them, so once should be enough but more can't hurt. Its called symbiosis and the mechanisms involved are as complex as you're willing to study, but frankly i only care that it works.

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12-11-2009, 07:31 PM #822
richyrich

I read up on making bokashi juice. It looks like a good idea. What looks sweet is that you can have a tap on the bottom of the composter (bucket, etc.) and take juice as needed to add to rez. Would be easier and more fresh than making and storing worm poop (EWC). I'm gonna try it soon.

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12-14-2009, 03:11 PM #839
ItsGrowTime

Manually cleaning the roots by hand has worked well for me after the roots were sterilized. Remove all dead slime and dead roots (dark stained stringy roots...they should pull off without effort). It sounds like you have a pretty big operation going (130gal res) so this might not be practical for you?

The food industry cleaner should be ok if you don't want to use bleach. Whatever you do make sure you rinse everything out well. Your top priority after sterilizing the roots and the system is to remove ALL loose organic matter from the system. Any loose root bits or dead slime or organic compounds you add to the fresh res water (other than bacterias and teas) is food for the slime to regrow and start all over. Clean everything! Then immediately add the tea to the fresh res water and let that run through your system for at least a day or two before you add anything else (nutes). If your plants aren't dead then the bacteria will start colonizing and the plants should start growing new roots almost immediately. Stick with chemical nutes ONLY if you have them. The slime doesn't feed on chemicals, just organic matter. Btw, if possible consider using less lights during this root regrowth period to allow the plants to re-establish without too much stress from trying to maintain growth under strong lights but with little root mass.

Let us know what the school says your slime is! What country are you in? Or at least what part of the world?

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12-18-2009, 12:25 AM #851
ItsGrowTime

Yep thats all you do, but don't forget about cleaning out dead root mass and algae and a very thorough rinsing out of your system. Good to hear you got your Physan too. Deficiencies will show up after awhile due to the roots being choked by the slime and not being able to take up nutes. Once the slime is gone and new clean roots are grown they'll recover.

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01-10-2010, 11:46 PM #861
richyrich

It's a common-nightmare problem that was not apparent before the beginning of this 3 year old and ongoing thread!

Sterilize--Use Physan20 at 3mL per 25gallons to sterilize and clean.

^^^ that is from my signature. Use those rates for both ^ as indicated. It doesn't take much.

You can run it through a hydro system with plants in it. Run through system for no more than 6 hours, dump, flush and then make new rez. That is how you sterilize your system. Go all chem ferts only!!!!!!! and/or introduce bene bacteria and fungi to system. Read thread for more on that. Run a search through this thread for EWC Tea. You can, also, use the filter posts option in this thread if you click on my screen name above my avatar. Do not use enzyme products. E.g: Hygrozyme, Sensizyme, etc..

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01-11-2010, 05:36 PM #862
ItsGrowTime

You can use enzyme products after sterilization or beneficial bacteria colonization during the grow. I do it all the time now without issue. It's just a problem adding enzymes to tap water with organic matter (like nutes) in it without colonization or sterilization first. Wait at least a week before adding any enzymes.

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01-11-2010, 07:32 PM #863
richyrich

Yes, you can, but it is a good idea for the person looking here for a solution to shy away from such products in the beginning of their battle until they become experienced with it such as yourself.

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01-11-2010, 09:09 PM #865
richyrich

You can order Physan20 online. Just do a simple search. Small bottle is cheap and lasts forever.

No need for enzymes in your cloner. Save your money.

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01-20-2010, 07:57 PM #872
StealthyStalks

Hygrozyme is made with enzymes (proteins) that are used to catalyze or increase the rates of biochemical reactions. In a fresh hydro system, that hasn't been colonized by beneficial bacteria yet, Hygrozyme actually promotes the growth of the white slime that is in tap water already. ie, Hygrozyme is promoting the growth of the only organism in an otherwise sterile system.

By first using RichyRich's EWC Tea in your system, and letting beneficial bacteria take hold for a while before you do a grow, you should have no need for Hygrozyme. However, later on in the growing cycle, as dead plant matter begins to accumulate in your growing media, the addition of beneficial fungi (that may or may not be present in the EWC already - I don't know.) will help eat away the dead plant matter.

Remember, the addition of Hygrozyme doesn't do anything in and of itself, it is just a catalyst that increases the rates of biochemical reactions of organisms already colonized in the system; good or bad. That is why it is a good idea to sterilized your whole system with Physan-20 first, so you can be sure all pythium zoospores and other nasties are eradicated before you set optimal conditions for you other beneficials to flourish in.

Hygrozyme is fine as long as you remember what it actually does; it acts as an expensive steriod for the things already living in your system; BOTH GOOD AND BAD!

I hope that helps.

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01-21-2010, 03:02 AM #873
ItsGrowTime

Ive been using Great White beneficial powder for my most recent crop and I really like it. It's not cheap but has a great variety of organisms and I have actually observed the colonization of my roots. I definitely recommend it for anyone with slime issues. Inoculate your roots with this stuff first and you'll be good to go and slime free.

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01-21-2010, 02:48 PM #875
ItsGrowTime

I grow hydro. Great White powder is for both hydro and soil.

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01-22-2010, 01:01 PM #878
original Blues

the pics in this thread are exactly what my roots looked like when i used
AN's tarantula and piranah...and i had several bad grows that i attribute

The same thing happened with these products and I would never use them again I even tried them and a 3rd of the advised dosage and the same problem appeared in my oxy pot!!

waste of money if you ask me

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01-23-2010, 02:44 PM #882
richyrich

Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
For sure make your own and its super cheap. It is EWC tea. I have been adding all kinds of cocktails lately. AquaShield, Great White powder and root excelurator (it is a microbe). Read through the posts. Some are having success with other products.

Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
You got it right.

"Two-part mycorrhizal inoculants, Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia, are for use with soil gardening and in hydroponics systems. When Earth Nectar, containing the concentrated mycorrhizal cultures, is mixed with Earth Ambrosia, the fuel delivery system for the active cultures, they infuse the growing medium with mycorrhiza resulting in stronger plants and increased crop yields. For use with soil or hydroponics

Earth Nectar and Earth Ambrosia are great for use in cloning systems. Used together in these solutions they prevent and protect tender young clones from the slimy buildup that sometimes occurs when the water is not changed often enough. Using these solutions will help bad microbes from attacking and rotting young rooting stems, andd will instead inspire your clones to grow the healthy white roots you are searching for."

Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
Yes, simple EWC Tea is all you need. Best part is that it is super cheap.

Off the shelf stuff: Great White, EA & EN, etc.; I like to add AquaShield in addition; and Root Excelurator, also. There are a lot out there. Just don't add mollasses or carb products to the rez with them. You could have an overgrowth that will mess with your pH, and if your good microbe colony is not doing so well, then you will just have opened the free buffet line for the slime.

Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
It was not an issue of belief. It was just about following advice.

I doubt you will find anyone prior to this thread in these forums using EWC Tea in their hydro set-ups. At least, I couldn't find anyone or anything on it with the search function.

More advice for anyone that may have not caught on yet:

Nothing out of a bottle from a store will give you the diversity you can make for so cheap yourself. Except, maybe that VermiT stuff I mentioned. But, they charge about $25 for a gallon.

You could use pirahna, tarantula, sub-culture, AquaShield, and on n on. They like to bottle all of their stuff separate more maximum $$$. And then most direct you to feed the microbes. This is fine in soil or coco, but it will result in absolute failure in a hydro set-up. If you don't get the slime you will get an over abundance of bene microbes and it will look like slime, too; biofilm. It will suffocate your roots, too.

So, only add the most diverse amount of microbes to your set-up. Only feed them in the brew and not in your system. Make EWC Tea, the absolute cheapest and most diverse colony, or buy bottles from the store, but you will have to mix multiple bottles to get full protection. DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT FEED THE COLONY IN YOUR HYDRO SET-UP/SYSTEM. That means NO carb or enzyme products.

Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
I use the carbo load. Use 10-15mL. Here is another good tip. Add some Great White or Plant Success Soluble Mycorrhizae. They are powder form benes. Add them to the brew and they will multiply, too. You will have a super soldier brew.

Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
Now here is what I am up to now. Finally, getting back to hydro after a year or so away I wanted to run an experiment with a beneficial microbe seeded reservoir that I have talked much about in the past. Seeing that I decided to go with the UV light in the reservoir this run I figured I could run an experiment with beneficials in my EZ Cloner. I always got slimed in that thing. We have one confirmed grow from DItrY that he/she got rid of the slime by introducing beneficial microbes to his/her grow. I, also, linked some old posts that I never came across before in all my reading on this site regarding the same.

I completely cleaned my EZ Cloner with Physan20 and set it up. The next thing I had to decide was where I wanted to get my beneficial microbes from. I could buy very expensive bottles that like to sell everything separate. One bottle for beneficial bacteria. Another bottle for beneficial fungi and so on. What I ended up doing is making my own earth worm casting tea. IMO nothing beats a fresh brewed EWC tea for microbes. You get beneficial bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes. And the best of all is you only need a $5 dollar bag of earth worm castings, a bucket, air stone and air pump. Oh, and some molasses or what I used, CarboLoad that I still had stored away. The complex sugars in these products feed the microbes. Get over to the organic soil forum and read about EWC teas. In 24 hours they should look frothy like mine.

I ended up putting some in a gallon container for later use. You can store it in the fridge for up to 7-10 days.

And, here is the EZ Cloner ready to go. Notice, I went ahead and threw in a biological filter. Keep you updated.

^^^ All good stuff.

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01-24-2010, 02:29 AM #886
StealthyStalks

I am trying to keep things simple and not cave into the hype of the growing industry who wants you to buy all sorts of things to supplement their incomplete nutrients. My next run will only consist of: CNS17 Grow and Bloom, Floralicious Plus, RickyRich’s EWC for hydro and nothing else. Physan-20 will be used to sterilize my system between crops with the exception of my reef system.

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02-05-2010, 12:46 PM #897
ItsGrowTime

I know it's loing but the people new to this thread really should consider reading from the very beginning. Hygrozyme is a catalyst for the slime. It is not the cause. Hygrozyme will NOT fix a slime issue but rather will make it much worse!! Physan20 is THE solution to kill an infection. Most anything else is a waste of precious time. This has all been covered in the thread.

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02-06-2010, 02:29 AM #901
ItsGrowTime

So you want to experiment? It's worth a shot and not hard to do. The real measure would be to put a plant in there since the slime attaches to the roots first. If you really want to piss the slime off just add a dash of carbs along with the Hygrozyme! Let us know the results if you do it.

Your second question Im not sure of the answer because Im not clear on your question. Can you rephrase?
eta: Wait I think I get it. You have never had a slime issue but you're thinking about adding Hygrozyme to your res and want to see if the slime shows up after adding the Hygro. Right? I don't think it will. I have triggered the slime without using Hygrozyme just by having organic matter in the water (root bits from transplanting) before inoculating the roots. Slime showed up fast just from the organics alone. If you haven't had the slime by now then you probably won't with Hygro. The slime usually shows up very fast in my fresh res mixes. Are you running 100% chemical nutes? If so, the Hygro might trigger it but I honestly doubt it.

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02-06-2010, 10:27 PM #904
StealthyStalks

If you already have root rot caused by pythium the addition of Hygrozyme will just exacerbate the problem. Hygrozyme works as a catalyst for beneficials as well as the nasties, so it should only be added to a healthy system. If you have pythium then treat your systen with Physan-20. Physan-20 is the greatest non-phytotoxic sterilizer around. I am really surprised we don't hear of it much in the cannabis circles seeing that it is huge in the greenhouse industry.

But yes, you could set up a separate system with nutes and Hygrozyme to see if an outbreak of brown algae results.

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02-20-2010, 01:49 PM #911
CannabisTHC

Wow took me like 3 days to read this whole thread but I've got it all in my head now. Thanks richyrich and ItsGrowTime.

Physan 20 is on the way, and I've already been using EWC tea in my Aerocloner and Bubble cloner.

Its amazing how patient you guys are, theres some incredibly ridiculous people that keep on stating/asking the same things and clutter this thread. I would have definitely been much ruder than you guys.

Thanks for the great info!!!

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02-27-2010, 04:46 PM #917
grapeman

Just thought I'd give cudos to richyrich and itsgrowtime for this thread. I've been following the evolution of the solution and this is one of the most informative threads here on ic.

Sure helped me simply recognize and resolve a recurring problem.

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02-28-2010, 07:45 PM #919
richyrich

I understood. . .

Rephrased--if you have to add water to the cloner at any time while you have clones in it, then run the water to be added in a bucket with UV first before it goes in the cloner.

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03-01-2010, 04:37 AM #920
FLoJo

i have lost a good chunk of clones recently too in my ez.. lost about 120 in the last week or so lol!!

so basically i did what you said RR, cleaned everything with P20, i brewed up the ewc tea, put a heat mat under my ez res, with a temp controller, and set it to 80.. i added in the ewc tea after 18 hours, but it wasnt foaming or anything.. also i didnt reintroduce due to being out of town.. also added rooting hormones to the water, and dipped the cuts in roottech gel.

anyways, came back, today is day 8, and some stems have bumps, some are brown and squishy, and some look really odd... the stems have become bulgy and white, splitting open.. its the wierdest looking thing! ever heard of this??

anyone know why this would happen? is it a precursor to mad rootage?

anyways, the tops are starting to yellow, so im hoping they are trying to root but we shall see.. im wondering if these gdps just dont like the ez LOL!

anyways, ill give it 4 or 5 more days, and if i dont see any roots, ill guess ill have to start over lol

EWC foam does not always have to foam.

I wouldn't use the heat mat under the cloner. The pump should warm the water enough. Warm water is not necessary.

Get the brown and squishy cuts out of the cloner asap. Probably caused by the heat and not reintroducing more EWC from being out of town.

The yellowing is from too much light. Minimal lighting is needed until roots have formed. When all cuts have root starting then introduce more light and they will explode in growth.

GDPs take a long time to root. They are not good rooters.

RootTech gel has the strongest amount of the active rooting hormone on the market. It is a precursor for mad rootage

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03-02-2010, 10:22 AM #929
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLoJo View Post
have you ever seen cuts that bulge out and split and are white as snow without roots? its the wierdest thing ive ever seen.

and the yellowing i know is not from too much light.. i have a 4 bulb 2 ft t5 about 2 and a half feet above the cloner, and once i see roots i move it down right on top of em. im wondering if it is from some kind of heat stress? or maybe signs of rooting? hell i dont know LOL.

i added a cheese cloth tied up with ewc directly into the cloner last night so we shall see what happens..

i have a few questiosn. when you make your tea, so you add 2 cups of ewc into 3 gallons of aerated ro, so is this all you use in the cloner or do you add more water? also how much ewc tea do you add every 3 days? lastly do you filter the tea at all with a cheesecloth or do you just run it straight?

p.s. do you use a 15 on 15 off schedule or constantly run?

That is surely too much light even at 2 and a half feet. That is the same rig I use once I have roots and they take off. Put one 18w strip fluoro above your cloner and see the difference. Your cuts are trying to grow leaf matter with that much light and are not concentrating on rooting. No roots to take in nutes when trying to grow leaf matter, well, the result is deficiency, hence the yellowing.

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03-03-2010, 02:11 AM #932
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertmarley View Post
Hey rich, i tried searching back this thread but couldnt pull up what i was looking for. Are you using roots excel in your res when you make cuts or after they show roots? i picked up some of this stuff since everyone seems to think its amazing and cant find any good info on using it in cloners

Use it as soon as you see the root nubs forming and hold on for a root explosion!!! You will then see first hand what the rave is all about with the product.

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03-08-2010, 09:18 AM #937
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertmarley View Post
Whats the reasoning for not putting it in from the onset? just wondering.. not doubting.

It is a root stimulator so it needs roots. Rooting hormones (clonex, etc.) are used from the onset to promote root growth from the cut. Plus, you save some money by not using it when not really necessary. The stuff is expensive.

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03-12-2010, 12:15 PM #938
ELEMENTSHOCKER

hello everyone im new to the forum but have read this thread from start to now and mad thanks to RR, you helped me save my plants bro any how i was wondering if anyone knows if you can use sensizym with dm zone. Right now im using zone at the rate of 5ml per five gal and sensi grow a&b for nutes in dwc and physan20 between changes, if the zym is compatible with the zone is it even worth adding it to my nutes? thanks in advance for the help

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03-13-2010, 10:23 AM #942
richyrich

You can use any zyme product with Zone but just know that you will be playing with fire--slime jet fuel. In my experience I have found no real need for an enzyme product in hydro.

I only use enzyme products with my mothers that stay in coco pots for a long time. Once in a while you need to use an enzyme on them to break down some old root mass and keep the mommys happy.

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04-03-2010, 06:57 PM #964
Greenmerlin

Thank you richyrich. I had this problem since I started six months ago, been too two different web sites, no luck been fighting this problem the whole time. i am heading out to get the physan 20.

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04-26-2010, 11:21 PM #975
ItsGrowTime

Small clones just aren't established enough to have the ability to grow a new root system after infection. It wasn't the Physan that killed them, it was the slime. Those roots were already dead when you added the Physan.

Im a fan of AquaShield for inoculation against the slime. The tea works fine but like you say there's a chance for contamination. I wouldnt use Great White only since it needs an activation period while AquaShield is live culture. That activation period is long enough for slime to get a foothold first (and it acts fast!). Ive been using Great White in my garden but have decided to combine it with AquaShield for a fast acting and diverse microherd.

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04-27-2010, 10:59 AM #979
richyrich

There are no problems with EWC if taken care of properly. It it stinks bad then toss it. As I have posted several times way back in this thread, if you want to make a super EWC Tea then I like to add Great White and AquaShield. Great White has the best mix of benes. This is the combination I use: EWC Tea made from fresh earth worm castings, Great White Powder, AquaShield and Advanced Nutes CarboLoad as the food and activator for the Tea. Aerate for 24 hours. I store mine in the fridge for up to 7-10 days. Always give it the sniff test before using.

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05-18-2010, 08:27 AM #998
richyrich

you really cant overdo it with the ewc tea. i have friends who put in a gallon of the store bought stuff--vermit t--per 50 gallons.

you dont have to put that much great white into your ewc brew. they will multiply in the brew.

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05-19-2010, 03:38 PM #1003
strangetanks

So its sounding like its unanimous at this point. Growing beneficial bacteria is the solution.

Since I had my problem after the first few days in the flowering area I havn't had a single other hitch. All the plants recovered fully the dead roots fell off and new ones continued growing with no problem.

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05-19-2010, 08:29 PM #1005
richyrich

You would be feeding them with the addition of the zyme product. H2O2 has been tried many times over and has failed against the slime. Read up. . .

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05-19-2010, 11:30 PM #1006
MrWeekend

h202 DOES NOT work.....been using it for years and never had a problem until the BROWN SLIME!....h202 does not affect it

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05-20-2010, 03:49 AM #1007
ItsGrowTime

Exactly. Physan 20 or you're just wasting precious time.

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06-04-2010, 12:50 AM #1015
MrWeekend

update on my findings......great white is the shit!....very expensive but it works.....im also using earth ambrosia & earth nectar @ 1/4 tsp per gallon....plants made a full recovery and are at day 9 of 12/12 now......also trying out Plant Success Soluble Mycorrhizae because its a little cheaper than great white, & made by the same company..and all the bacteria #'s were higher per CC with the Plant Success.

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06-07-2010, 10:24 PM #1023
MrWeekend

I quoted all of richys post that I found helpful last page(66)...also he has updated his sig with alot of the info you need

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06-08-2010, 10:22 AM #1025
richyrich

You need to know if you really have root rot (pythium) or the slime. Ditch the zymes asap, they feed the slime with organic food from the break down of the dead roots. Save your money. Go straight chem nutes and get to making some EWC tea. Clean out with Pyhsan20. Problems will go away. Its as simple as that. Deviate from this and your problems will continue almost guaranteed.

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06-16-2010, 06:44 PM #1028
ItsGrowTime

It looks like my combination of RO filtering and UV sterilization has worked to clean my res water of all nasties, including the slime algae! My roots have never been so white! Want to rid yourself of the stuff forever? RO and UV.

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06-22-2010, 09:09 AM #1042
MrWeekend

shal..... I just dealt with the slime in ebb&flow buckets....read back to page 65, my chronicles start there.....what I did worked wonders for my plants & they pulled through.....pm me if you need any help, but I documented it pretty well in my post I think.

***just read back & 66 is where all my res changes are at.......after I did all my res changes I am now running GH nutes, Plant Success Soluble(or great white). & Earth Ambrosia/Earth Nectar

But here is what I would do in a Ebb & Flow, Multi-Flow Bucket system with Hydrotron, 55 Gallon Res

1- 6ml Physan, 30min fill
2- clean phd water, 15min fill
3- 6ml Physan, let sit in your res for about an hour, then 30min fill
4- clean phd water, 15min fill
5- Clearx, or final flush, 15min fill
6- Simple Chem Nutes (gh 3 part) (no organics, enzymes, sugars, ect) & LOADS OF BENI BACS!!!!.....I reccomend, Plant success soluble, great white, or myco madness & earth ambrosia / earth nectar.

follow this & you will be back to normal in about a week.

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06-26-2010, 01:14 PM #1052
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharl View Post
anyone feel like i could use sweet or floralicious instead of carboload or molasses to feed to ewc tea?

Yes, you can.

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07-03-2010, 01:16 AM #1064
GrumpyGrower

Hey guys, I figure after several months of reading this thread over and over, I should sign up and say thanks. After looking elsewhere and always getting told I had root rot, this thread saved my sanity (so far).

The slime showed up for me last winter. I found this thread and read about half of it. My mistake was that I stopped reading after RR said physans plus zone was the way to go, of course this was outdated.

I ordered some zone and used it, and for some reason the slime went away quickly and completley. I was okay for several months until I got a bottle of roots excelurator. I had been told that roots excel was hormonal, not microbial, so I didn't think it would hurt to use it with Zone.

The result of using those two together was my roots turned brown and fell off. This didn't look like disease, it looked like chemical death. I gave them a good rinse. I noticed no smell and had such confidence in zone that I just upped the dose to the 'curative' level and forgot about it. Couple days later the roots were covered in slime, and wasn't long before it found its way into my other dwc tubs. And of course, my bubble cloner that had been working so awesome for several months, stopped producing anything at all.

I upped the dose of zone to 10ml per gallon and added bottles of h2o2. For whatever reason, even tho Zone killed the slime the first time at just 1ml per gal, it wasn't even slowing it down this time.

In the meantime I came back to this thread, read it all and re-read it, and then skimmed time and time again. I got some EWC and some aquashield.

After spending so much money on sterilizing products, I am amazed at how cheap and easy it was to get the slime under control. I was really doubtful it would work. Not that I don't have faith in you guys, but when you try 6 or 7 things and the slime just laughs at you, you don't really expect number 8 to work either.

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07-04-2010, 01:14 PM #1068
ItsGrowTime

Good luck! Im sure it will fix your problem for good. Just remember to never addback any water that didn't run through the UV first.

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07-07-2010, 12:07 AM #1074
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
NovoLogics Ultraviolet treatment also photo=oxidizes and destroys combined chlorine and chlorine byproducts such as chloramines and other toxic organic pollutants including bad odors.

Installation: Simply install on your feed water inlet - before any nutrient injection systems. Remember this is a UV broad spectrum sterilizer - not a simple plastic UV clarifier which only gets rid of green water. Novologics all Stainless Steel UV Sterilizer clears green water and completely destroys all bacteria, fungi and other disease causing organisms and actually purifies the water to human drinking water levels.

One of the biggest problems in hydroponic plant production is the bacteria and fungi in the feed water which quickly multiply and can even destroy a crop within a matter of hours or days. Now you can have the assurance that the treated water is free of disease causing organisms.

That right there in bold sets this unit apart. Looks like a really good one to get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyrich View Post
Yes, very important. Make sure you are getting a sterilizing unit.

^^^^ What I posted a year ago. Make sure you get a sterilizing UV unit.

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07-07-2010, 12:05 PM #1075
richyrich

This is what everyone must have in their slime toolbox.

The ancient forest is better than earth worm castings. Way more bene microbes in it.

The ZHO by botanicare is loaded with trichoderma. Trichoderma is a parasitic bene microbe. You want it to attack the slime. The other bene microbes colonize the roots preventing the slime from making a home.

If you want to use root excelurator, try adding it during the tea brewing process. The sugars will be utilized by the bene microbes to multiply.

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07-10-2010, 12:10 PM #1087
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrumpyGrower View Post
Jus wondering something,
I have some cuttings in rockwool for now while I try to get my DWC in order. I noticed the cubes smell pretty musty this morning. When you guys use rockwool, do you try to use the tea and colonize it, or do you think it's okay to use some zone and sterilize them? Or should I jus ignore the smell?

Dip them in the tea and you will be amazed with what you see in the next few days.

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07-10-2010, 12:51 PM #1088
SumDumGuy

Hey RichyRich,
Thanks for everything you and everyone else documented here.. Today on day 5 I have roots they are very small but are protruding through the stem. Others have yet to root but after reading this whole thread and taking precautions I pulled them through. I figure 3 days minimum for the rest of them. This is really exciting.

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07-11-2010, 01:51 AM #1089
darthvapor

thanks richy. Ill go back and read thru. Its alot to take in on the first read or two. Have you used them. What do you think? worth doing or is the tea better. I swear man than ez-cloner is moking me, laughing and teasing me 6 days with callusus on just one cut. but thank god no slime. next run will be another with the tea and pumping the temps to 80-85f. Thanks for all the info and time you put in this thread I appreciate your efforts. If I can repay the favor just ask.

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07-12-2010, 10:55 AM #1092
richyrich

Just follow the directions in my signature. Add additional tea every third day. Make your tea out of Ancient Forest if you can find it. Add Root Excelurator when beginning to make your tea. Add it in with the rest of the ingredients. When making the tea use a large air pump with an air stone. Lots of air equals lots of oxygen. End result will be a potent tea of beneficial microbes. I use a General Hydroponics Dual Diaphragm pump. It works great.

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07-14-2010, 06:44 AM #1095
GrumpyGrower

Thanks so much Richy, I was indeed amazed to see roots coming out of these huge rockwool cubes just a couple days after installing the smaller plugs. So nice to see white fuzzy roots after weeks and weeks of brown sludge. It seems brewing the tea is like making your own super charged roots excelurator.

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07-22-2010, 09:55 AM #1107
richyrich

That is nasty. It looks like a loogy. That beats the pictures I posted of the snot slime years ago. LOL

I wonder what would happen if you poured some Physan onto it straight from the bottle. Wonder if it would fizzle like salt on a snail? LOL

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07-22-2010, 12:26 PM #1108
Greenmopho

I should note that loogey was bigger than a quarter (the coin). That was fished out of my pump filter. Physan right on it just makes kinda disintegrate. Not really fizz or anything. It doesn't really attack my roots, but it is buiding up in some places, including on air stones, pump filters, and bottoms and sides of net pots. My res smells like pond water. The slime is turning dark brown and black since I added a ton of beneficials. They seem to be munching on it as the chunks have gotten smaller and fall apart now easier, although still present in the res. No point in doing a res change-out until I get that UV filter

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7-22-2010, 10:35 PM #1109
OMountainMix

I wonder if you could put salt on it like you could with a snail or slug. Dude, this is harsh. And I have to say, that I've NEVER seen something like THIS.

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07-23-2010, 03:49 PM #1110
Bud Bundy

Richyrich, thank you for your *years* of dedicated research into this thread!

I am very interested in trying the tea that you mention for my Waterfarm 8 pack recirculating drip/DWC setup.

I plan on adding to the tea:

------------------
Ancient Forest
Great White
Root Excellurator
ZHO
Aquashield
Liquid Carbo Load (for the carbs for brewing the tea, not sure if Root Excel would be enough)

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07-25-2010, 10:38 AM #1119
MrWeekend

Just wanted to let everyone know this can be battled & managed to pull off a crop.

Here goes some pics at day 63 of my "slimed" crop.

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07-28-2010, 11:47 AM #1120
richyrich

Here you go Bud Bundy. See below in your quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Bundy View Post
I am not sure if I have root rot or brown slime!

I am growing in a Waterfarm 8 pack Recirculating setup, with holes drilled in the bottom for extra drainage.

This is my second grow in Waterfarms, the first time I didn't have extra holes drilled for the buckets so less roots could get to the DWC, and I had many brown roots, but it still harvested (I vegged way too long). At the time I did not even know about the slime, and attributed it to root rot from not having enough drainage holes in the bucket, letting it run too long, and not having airstones for the first part of the grow.

Definately add air stones to the bottom of each waterfarm. It may keep the bottom roots from dying by giving them oxygen.

I have grown in soil for years, but recently switched over; this is my second hydro grow, and I am having problems with brown roots again. Some plants I had an easy time getting going, others seemed stunted and their roots were browning (before they even got to the DWC). Some really healthy plants shot roots down to the DWC bucket, which were pretty damn white when they first came through if I must say so myself. However, after being submerged in the DWC bucket for a few weeks, they started getting brown (didn't really notice as big of an issue with slime at the time), just some roots that looked like they were turning brown.

The browning happens from the roots suffocating in stagnant water. They are dead roots and root rot will usually set in once they are dead. If anyone has noticed, the Ebb n Grow system made by CAP has modified their bottom buckets. They drain completely now to avoid this problem.

So, last week I went out and got some SM-90 to add to the res (as I am not running any beneficials, just hygrozyme). I have been running hygrozyme this entire time, and added nothing new to the mix except SM-90.

Well, a day or two after adding SM-90 I inspected the root system again and it seems like the roots got slimer, and browner, and a sludge is collecting on the airstones, and drip tube at the bottom. However, there is no really really foul smell or anything from the res or buckets (roots just smell somewhat earthy, not putrid). Also, while many of the roots are brown, I do see some white ones still and looks like a few new roots are emerging in a few of the buckets, which look fairly white (compared to the others).

It seems like you may have root rot setting in on the dead roots. The sludge is not slime. It is the action of the Hygrozyme. It is breaking down the dead roots. If you had the slime it would have exploded by now. The sludge made by Hygrozyme is jet fuel (super food) for the slime. That is why Hygrozyme is not advocated here when one has slime. It is great to use on soil and coco plants in a drip to waste system though.

I am wondering if all this sludge and thick coating on the roots is from the SM-90 breaking down and cleaning the crap in my system (since I have never run it before), combined with the Hygrozyme breaking down dead plant material and is coating everything.

No, just the Hygrozyme. The SM-90 is probably keeping the root rot at bay.

Now, my water temps could have been a problem and caused this, because they would get to be 75-78, maybe a bit higher sometimes before I improved the circulation and started adding in ice packs more frequently. Also, the ambient room temps would get hot sometimes, I would normally leave the door open since the room had no AC inside (temp would vary between 79-90 during the day, usually at 82-86 degrees). Now, I have ran AC and it runs at a constant 75, peaking up to 79 when I throttle the AC, which is much better. (However, this is after the fact and earlier higher temperatures could have definitely played a part in my brown roots)

Run beneficials as a first choice for the heat. Other wise get a water cooler and you could also run both together. Frozen ice packs or bottles, etc. will not work very good at all. The fix needs to be constant.

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07-28-2010, 11:55 AM #1121
richyrich

Great White - one scoop that is included
Root Excel - 5mL
ZHO - one scoop that is included
Aquashield is added to the tea - 20mL

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07-31-2010, 12:31 PM #1130
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Bundy View Post
Hi RichyRich,

Just a couple more questions about the tea.

1) I couldn't find ZHO at my hydro store, but Great White already has Trichoderma, so I should be able to leave out the ZHO out of the tea and be OK with what Great White provides, correct?

Yes, just Great White will be perfectly fine.

Also, I've heard I should just apply Roots Excel on it's own (not to combine with other additives), and not to brew it in a tea with other ingredients since it is highly acidic - So, not sure what to believe from what I have read, but it seems like you've been having good results combining Roots Excel with other nutrients and oxygenating it by using it in a tea.

Don't worry about all that with Root Excel.

3) I should only really use roots excelurator during the Cloning phase (when roots first show up), and during Veg correct? Once I start flower or a couple of weeks into flower stop using it?

Stop at 4 weeks into flower. You could constantly use it because they do promote it as a root protector. Basically, the same thing the tea will do, but tea is wayyyyyy better.

4) In your response, you said to use 20 ML of AquaShield, but in your sig you say to use 50 ML of AquaShield. Is the 20 ML assuming I'm making a smaller batch?

20, 50 a 100mL, it really don't matter. It's all going to multiply. Put as much as you want.

5) I plan on only mixing up a gallon of tea at a time, since the Waterfarm 8 pack doesn't hold all that much water.

If I am mixing up 1 gallon mix, should I just divide all of your ingredients listed by 4ths?

You can. Exact numbers are not that important. You only need just enough.

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07-31-2010, 12:34 PM #1131
richyrich

Just tea before roots start. When you have roots and root knubs, then hit them with nutes mixed with some tea and give them more light and then the roots will explode. I just use the root excel in the tea now. It saves a lot of $ too.

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08-09-2010, 10:55 AM #1137
GrumpyGrower

I was never able to successfully purge the slime from my buckets that were already infected. However I started some new seedlings and after several weeks I am seeing no sign of the slime at all. My roots are growing better than ever and staying super white. The addition of the ZHO powder to my tea seems to have been a huge help. So thanks once again to everyone who contributed!!

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08-18-2010, 01:22 PM #1146
GrumpyGrower

I run Zone continuously and add 5ml of 35% h2o2 daily, yet the slime still thrives in the ebb and flow buckets. Meanwhile I've started several DWC buckets back up again fortified with the EWC tea, and no sign of the slime at all.

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08-19-2010, 03:15 PM #1149
GrumpyGrower

I have found that Zone is great at killing everything except this slime. Which means, if you use Zone, you are effectively clearing the playing field of any competing organisms and giving the slime a nice empty home to move into.

When I first got the slime, Zone took care of it quickly and completely for months...but once it came back, Zone doesn't even slow it down. To avoid problems, it's best to practice proper res maintenance. This means water temps around 68f, 1wt air pump per gallon, no light reaching the water, and absolutely NO organic material in the res. Instead of sterilizing the water, populate it with beneficial microbes by making the EWC tea outlined in this thread.

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08-28-2010, 09:51 PM #1152
GrumpyGrower

My search ended with the EWC tea. It's cheap, easy and effective.

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09-02-2010, 10:40 PM #1154
bogfan

RICHYRICH

I bought an ezclone 30 and failed to produce clones 5 times in a row. The slime got me. I gave it to a friend. He kept it for 9 months, brought it back, described the slimed symptoms and cussed me for ever giving him the damn thing to begin with. It sat in the back of my grow room for a few months. I read this thread, made some tea, and had the nicest looking clones I have ever seen. My tea consisted of EWC, Plant Success Rhizo, Genesis Compost, and Flora Nectar. Not sure if that is a good combo or not but I got tiny roots in 7 days and was able to transplant in 14.

There is so much to read through on icmag and a lot of good and bad information. I believe this is one of the jewels of icmag. The ezclone ewc combo.

You had a problem and used an icmag version of the scientific method to overcome a problem.

THANK YOU RICHYRICH

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09-05-2010, 02:10 AM #1155
richyrich

Excellent! You are welcome.

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09-23-2010, 10:46 AM #1161
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminSocks View Post
Oh, that question was for a quick dunk, but what about a longer application of H2O2?

It was stated somewhere that if you were going to the dangerous option of using an enzyme to break down dead roots, you had to make sure that the organic material you were making available was not being consumed by the bad guys.

What are the concentration levels of H202 for 35%, 29%, and 3% per gallon in case? I know it would be a lot less than the dunk.

I have written down that it was 2ml/gallon of H2O2 35% to start off with, and then you add more H2O2 every 3 days.

When people write "a handful", "a scoop", or "a tad", it makes me break out in hives. I have no reference point, and I am completely unsure if my "tad" matches their "tad". I have been told mine is unusually larger.
I have not idea on the quick dunk amount, but I would never use the amount you listed. I have only ever used 35% at 1-2mL per Gallon long term use in a rez.

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09-23-2010, 10:48 AM #1162
richyrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminSocks View Post
RichyRich,

For your 4 gallon formula for EWC tea that is in your signature, how many milliliters would you recommend of unsulfured molasses in place of carboload? I just can't pay Advanced prices for things. Would 50 ml be a good starting point?

Is a handful about 250 ml roughly? I see MrWeekend used three cups, to equal your 3 handfuls. Is a scoop about 5 ml roughly? I see MrWeekend used about that amount. Am I thinking too big or too small for these amounts.

I don't have Aquashield, I have Companion which is straight thick Bacillus subtilis. I am using 5 ml in place of the 20 ml of Aquashield because Companion is so concentrated.
Same amount for molasses. I would say a handful is a cup. Really, you can use as much as you want, but it gets to a point where too much is pointless so 2 - 3 cups is just fine.

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05-08-2011, 11:07 PM #1178
ItsGrowTime

UV has worked for me to clear up the slime issue. All my plant water goes through the UV before it comes near my girls.

UV has worked for me to clear up the slime issue. The $60 aquarium version at Petsmart has worked great! All my plant water goes through the UV before it comes near my girls.

wow
i think this thread may have saved the rest of my hair ive been pulling out
my most recent grow was booming for a couple weeks then bam
things got sickly the roots got the brown slimey/mushy thing going on
tried running dead res with bleach to no avail
i picked up some physan at armstrong for 10 bucks
my res was fresh and i thought it was pretty clean
but a lot of ugly muck came up in the physan foam

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11-28-2011, 12:18 AM #1197
richyrich

Been a year since I posted. I'm still slime free. Good to hear all of you are beating the hydro herps!

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07-21-2012, 12:30 PM #1202
StoopheadFred

Thank you all SO MUCH for putting this information out there. I thought the whole idea of "beneficial bacteria" was a crock of shit before I read this thread and tried it for myself.

I'm in DWC buckets with the temps peaking at 90. Lost my last round of plants to the root rot after trying Physan 20 and H2O2 (3% and 35%). I thought I was going to have to give up DWC and deal with soil after that happened but it's been ~3 weeks and my plants are looking great! Roots and all!

I'm just using blackstrap molasses and earthworm castings to make my tea and so far it's working great.

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08-03-2012, 03:28 AM #1204
ItsGrowTime

Just drop the coin on a proper chiller for your setup and you'll be good to go. You can't grow hydro without one except in the smallest of spaces. The sheer heat from the light will warm up any hydro way past it's capabiltiies without a chiller. Root rot is certain above 72*F water temp. Physan is a great supplement but it's not a cure.

Im still slime free after running all tap water through a 3 stage RO and a UV sterilizer AND adding heavy amounts of Physan20 to the fresh water and the res every few days (250gallons total volume). Bleach for cleaning out the system. No water touches my roots until it's been cleaned. No more slime.

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03-21-2014, 05:48 PM #1224
richyrich

After several years, I am back guys and girls!!!

I was told by fellow brothers and sisters that I should come back and check out a tea recipe and instructions going around by the name heisenberg or something like that. Multiple people have told me I should be claiming credit for my previous work here. They said that someone was/is biting the info contained within this thread that I started posting here back in 2007 and they are taking credit for it elsewhere.

As far as I'm concerned and if so, it's pretty trivial. My entire motive in this epic thread was to correctly name the beast, discover the source of the beast, and find out how to slay the beast. That I did. And with the collaboration with all the great brothers and sisters here that contributed, we all did one hell of a job.

I spent an unbelievable amount of money, time and FRUSTRATION over 5 years and I shared the last few years of it here. Yes, that is how long I had the slime. I never expected anything back in return and I still do not. I found and still find great joy in my heart helping my brothers and sisters, and that's all I ever needed instead of gratitude, even though there has been much.

With that said, I will state that I am a man of principal though. I believe credit is due where credit is due, so I'll be poking around here and other websites to see what they are talking about and make sure fellow growers are not being led the wrong way.

I think my last post was three or four years ago. I didn't just stop after I beat the slime in 2009 (by the way I haven't been slimed in the past 5 years.). I have been a busy person since then. I have vastly improved my tea formula or shall I say formulas, and I have invented some other contraptions for streamlining the whole process. Kind of like plug and play. I have a lot of other ideas too. I will disclose them when the time is appropriate. I have a few controlled studies to finish up and I have to send out for and receive lab results.

I'll be around for a little while, so if any of you have questions go ahead and fire away. I'll get to them if I can.

One love and light...

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03-21-2014, 08:04 PM #1226
richyrich

Jomofo, answers are in blue
QUOTE Jomofo

richy, I have looked into roots excelurator and have found they don't recommend using directly in a dwc tea. 2 they said to turn down the air stone power because air will kill some stuff in the RE, however they did say to use after/with dwc tea directly to rez . Also they only recommend half strength 0.55ml to Gallon of the new Gold Roots excelurator. so heavy air to brew tea is not good for RE, most of its effects will be nullified.

I would go by what they say if that is what the manufacturer is stating. I have no evidence to refute what they state. I have had no problems adding the recommended dose of root excel directly to any rez or cloner. I do not believe it contains any food (jet fuel) for the slime. Actually, I regularly add it to my ez cloner directly in addition to my tea.

recently I have got slime and belief it formed from using carboload, also had light leak I fixed, but slime coming back.

If you added carbo load directly to a rez, that will spark the slime if it was around already. you do not want to feed the slime sugars and organics in the rez. you can safely use it in your brewing tea as long as you do not use too much. you need to brew your tea for a minimum of 24 hours so the good microbes utilize all the sugars (ie. carbo load, etc.). slime will grow with or without light. you will get the typical blue green algae with light leeks, but this type of algae is pretty harmless unless it gets way out of control.

tea did help but battle still, and can not get physan 20. I cleaned with bleach and set up,

If you can't get the physan 20 right now, the bleach will do just fine. Eventually get the physan 20 though. Nothing beats it except for something I've been working on. I'll reveal that later.

been using tea and I have read that mycogrow from paul stamets fungi site will replace zho, greatwhite, and aquashield equally.

Don't worry about getting everything in the tea recipe. You can use any alternatives you want. If all you had was earth worm castings and molasses to make tea with would be just fine. The point is to get good microbes into your system to keep out the bad microbes, like the slime. The point of adding the ones in my recipe is to make a bad ass tea with a full range of good micorobes that not only protect the roots by keeping away the bad microbes, but to also benefit the plants and especially their roots.

One thing about my recipe is that the roots blow out like no product off the shelf can do. The amount of roots quadruple compared to those with no tea, they come out pearl white, the roots will have an abundance of fine root hairs, and when rooting in a cloner or rw cubes, etc, rooting time is cut in half. All indicators for roots of perfect health. Remember, a larger healthy root mass equals happy plants and a larger yield.

but if you have to use powdered carboload to feed tea how much do you need? I've noticed that my tea looks frothy at 24hrs and not so much at all at 48hrs, so I must be close to supplying food for bennies and not to much unused at 1tsp per 3-4gallon?

1tsp per 3-4gallon is good. You could probably go 1tsp per 24 hours of brewing. So, if you want to brew for 48 hours then go 2tsp. Remember that less is better than more. That sounds about right. The froth will dissipate as their food source diminishes.

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03-22-2014, 05:32 AM #1228 Jomofo

thanks Richy, I cant wait to hear what that alt product to physan is, I couldn't need it more atm. mycogrow claimed to have more bennies then the 3 combined, its under "fungi for healthy gardens" section comes in gel is the one that I believe is for tea. After what I seen on this thread you may be very interested in this stuff, I will replace in my tea asap, but for now i need to treat still, this slime is tough stuff.

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03-22-2014, 10:22 AM #1229 richyrich

Zeusdog said:

It's an honor to finally post a worthy message on this thread...what I consider to be one of the best threads out there on DWC and Brown slime...(the other good one is by Heisenburg which I will post this there also).

I have tried:

...
-tea (Heisenberg's recipe),
...

... But the one that did work extremely well (for me, yours may be different) was AQUASHILED from Botanicare (this was part of Heisneburg's recipe...

I think Heisenburg's tea works great but it's like a fragmentation grenade...

Click to expand...

Zeusdog,

The heisenberg thread begun 2011 at rollitup.org is a plagiarized version of my work done in the original version of the slime club sticky thread here at icmag. The tea is the RichyRich Hydro Tea Recipe I created, experimented with for a long time, and released it as free knowledge to share with the entire community back in 2009. A lot of my terms, catch phrases, instructions, are parroted there. By all means share knowledge wide and far, but shame to those who try to keep it a secret to profit from and those who seek glory by unoriginal work.

Inspired333 said:

Have you tried making a "tea"; look up "heisenberg ewc tea" (youtube vid by dr. scanderson or something like that or thread on rollitup).
It's a simple tea that you can brew for really cheap. It's comprised of; a mychorrizae (your choice - any will do), a small amount of "botanicare aquashield", and some earthworm castings or alaskan humus all mixed in a bucket with some dechlorinated water.
You brew it up with the strongest air pump you have for 24-36 hours and apply it (add to res and/or root crown if you want to) and it decimates the slime.

Search for it online.
Good luck.

Click to expand...

Inspired333,

Perhaps had you read this thread, you wouldn't be misdirecting people to search elsewhere and divert them from the original and ultimate source of slime info.

So, I went to this heiserberg thread, have any of you realized that the purported heisenberg tea is nothing more than the tea and instructions I posted here in this thread several years ago and a couple of years before this heisenberg began that thread at rollitup.org.

Sharing information is all good. I haven't been on here for a couple of years and I got directed to come back here by my fellow growers because they said they thought what was going on was kind of shady. I read through the thread over there.

What I see is that this guy heisenberg started a thread at rollitup.org after this thread died out in 2010. This thread started here in 2007. What I found surprising was that so many things he stated were right out of my mouth from here in this thread and even verbatim. You can look right down at my signature and also go back in time in this thread.

I guess the shady part my friends were talking about is that he allowed people to give him credit, did not correct anyone, did not give a link to the source, and even named the tea recipe after himself which I shared here and fellow icmagers put my name to it somewhere in this thread.

I think you can put it this way. It's like that guy who gets an awesome clone of a new strain that a breeder puts out and the guy goes around giving it away to everyone and allows everyone to name it after him and praise him without correction.

Anyway, I got directed here and it had to be said to set the record straight. Moving along...

I want to get this thread bumping again. Like I posted earlier, I'll be around for a while to host your questions but hopefully you will read first.

I did a google search on brown slime algae and omg, the lessons of this thread have gone far. It's crazy how many people have and get this slime. I was desperate and there were no answers anywhere when I started my quest in 2007. Nobody even had a correct name for the slime.

Wrangle people in and direct them here to this thread. The threads about the slime at other websites are not complete. People are still asking questions easily found here.

Most of the websites with info on slime are lacking and I didn't even see any pictures. A lot of fellow growers need help and nobody should have to suffer with the slime when all the answers are here.

The slime will make you age fast and want to run over your hydro equipment with a truck. That's no joke. That was said in this thread.

I'm going to start by searching for slime threads here at icmag.com and then venture out to other websites to corral the discussion here where it started.

And to everybody, I want to hear your success stories and better yet, share your before and after pictures with us all. That is all the gratitude I need.

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03-23-2014, 01:46 PM #1256 richyrich

Holy moly I stumbled across this... I can only imagine what I would find if I tried. I wasn't joking earlier when I wrote that my tea recipe has been getting bitten all over the place and that the retailers and manufacturers are probably all up on it and the hydro tea idea. Now I really see why my friends told me I should come back to the slime thread and icmag. Anyhow, LOL...

1069B Lyell Ave
Rochester NY 14606

Ready and divided into 4 - 2.5 gal. brews (portions). The tea you are buying is ideal for all hydroponics and DWC system. This is a must in DWC (Deep Water Culture). Takes care of slime algae that is caused by our water suppliers! You should use RO Water for best results in DWC! Instructions included to show you how to brew your own in a 5 gal. bucket with an air stone and aquarium air pump!

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Hydroponic problems?
Nikko B. (California) 1/30/2014 3:31 PM
As many DWC hydroponic growers know, algae or slimy residue on your roots is a general no no! I recently noticed that I myself am suffering from this problem. I've heard a lot of good things about tea's and was hesitant to try, but I gave this kit a shot. I honestly cant believe the difference its made to my plants. roots are beautifully white and clean with no issues whatsoever!! i'll definitely be buying more of these 4 brew tea kits. I would even go as far as blessing these guys for this DIY kit!!

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03-23-2014, 06:49 AM #1255 Jomofo

hey so the tea would not work for me, I had ph drop so I broke down and broke everything down, like I said I can not get physan 20 so I cant even do step one right. i ended buying hydro sparkle and have only ph'd water and sparkle in my rez atm. richy I have some pictures of the slime really early when it was still pretty clear and roots were not all brown yet, if you want to use them go ahead in my gallery. Also i want you to chack out that mycogrow stuff to replace GW, ZHO, and aquashield all in one product it even has a list of the active bennies fungi.com under "fungi for healthy gardens" section gel form is choice for tea and I still cant wait to hear what that alternate product to physan is or do i just do the erythromycin after this run is done, to kill all anything left, or is the sparkle stuff as good as label claims cause its pretty strong claims, im going to find out anyways cause i gave up on tea this run, but i want to try to make a better brew system so i can actually brew enough.

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03-23-2014, 01:46 PM #1256 richyrich

It seems as if though some people might have some mutants strains of these microbe monsters. You could be one of them.

Early on in the slime club 2007-2008 I wrote about cyanobacteri (which is what the slime realy is) can and does come from water supplies and if you are one of the unlucky, its coming out of your tap water. I can especially see this happening if your water provider gets the water from a near by reservoir.

I started writing about this yesterday in my rot club thread. I'll copy and paste it over here after.

I wouldn't go antibiotics until last resort. The bugs can build resistance to antibiotics and end up worse over time. Snype has documented success at his thread and I'm sure it works. When I mentioned using antibiotics in the slime club thread 2007, I never had to go there because I found two beast slayers; my hydro tea recipe and inline water UV Sterilizing Units.

The microbe mix an fungi.com looks like a really good blend. I'll have to get some and look at it under my microscope.

I haven't use the HydroSparkle myself. It could be good stuff. If you are going to give it a whirl, keep us all updated.

Thanks for the pix. I've been collecting. They come in handy.

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03-23-2014, 01:56 PM #1257 Jomofo

yes I think I have it in the tap water too, it happened fast right after getting them into the top feed system, that had a light leak but I don't think that formed it because in the ebb n flow it was not very well covered rez no direct light but it was open basically, when I moved them they had a direct light leak and I didn't see slime it was not till after I added carbo load to rez, and I had normally used bud candy with no problem in that same set up. Also I get my water from the great lakes or my city does, so that could be bad for other people too.

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richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

03-23-2014, 06:49 AM #1255 Jomofo

hey so the tea would not work for me, I had ph drop so I broke down and broke everything down, like I said I can not get physan 20 so I cant even do step one right. i ended buying hydro sparkle and have only ph'd water and sparkle in my rez atm. richy I have some pictures of the slime really early when it was still pretty clear and roots were not all brown yet, if you want to use them go ahead in my gallery. Also i want you to chack out that mycogrow stuff to replace GW, ZHO, and aquashield all in one product it even has a list of the active bennies fungi.com under "fungi for healthy gardens" section gel form is choice for tea and I still cant wait to hear what that alternate product to physan is or do i just do the erythromycin after this run is done, to kill all anything left, or is the sparkle stuff as good as label claims cause its pretty strong claims, im going to find out anyways cause i gave up on tea this run, but i want to try to make a better brew system so i can actually brew enough.

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

03-23-2014, 01:46 PM #1256 richyrich

It seems as if though some people might have some mutants strains of these microbe monsters. You could be one of them.

Early on in the slime club 2007-2008 I wrote about cyanobacteria (which is what the slime really is) can and does come from water supplies and if you are one of the unlucky, its coming out of your tap water. I can especially see this happening if your water provider gets the water from a near by reservoir.

I started writing about this yesterday in my rot club thread. I'll copy and paste it over here after.

I wouldn't go antibiotics until last resort. The bugs can build resistance to antibiotics and end up worse over time. Snype has documented success at his thread and I'm sure it works. When I mentioned using antibiotics in the slime club thread 2007, I never had to go there because I found two beast slayers; my hydro tea recipe and inline water UV Sterilizing Units.

That microbe mix looks like a really good blend. I'll have to get some and look at it under my microscope.

I haven't use the HydroSparkle myself. It could be good stuff. If you are going to give it a whirl, keep us all updated.

Thanks for the pix. I've been collecting. They come in handy.

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

03-23-2014, 01:56 PM #1257 Jomofo

yes I think I have it in the tap water too, it happened fast right after getting them into the top feed system, that had a light leak but I don't think that formed it because in the ebb n flow it was not very well covered rez no direct light but it was open basically, when I moved them they had a direct light leak and I didn't see slime it was not till after I added carbo load to rez, and I had normally used bud candy with no problem in that same set up. Also I get my water from the great lakes or my city does, so that could be bad for other people too.

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

Jomofo,

Try out my instructions:

How to Sterilize Your EZ Cloner and Hydro Systems

1. Depending on what you can get, Pysan20 is tops. Second, regular unscented bleach, and third, whatever you might want to try. I only advocate Physan20 and bleach for now.

2. For sterilizing equipment, use hot hot water, your choice of one of the products of above, and antibacterial dish washing soap. The dish soap is antibacterial so it will help somewhat. It also is a surfactant and will make the scrubbing much easier. For Physan20 you will use 1mL per 5 gallons. For regular unscented bleach use 1 cup per 5 gallons. For other products you need to figure that out.

3. If you are cleaning a system with a lot of tubes (eg. ez cloner, drip systems, dwrc, drip feed, connected buckets, etc.), make sure your system is drained, then fill up your rez with one of the products, super hot water, and enough antibacterial dishwashing soap to get enough suds going. Now run the system for 4 hours.

4. For an ez cloner, take the lid off. Put all the puks in the sterilizing water. Take the pump apart. Take the red sprayers off the manifold. Soad everything in the bottome portion of the ez cloner for 2 hours then move on to step 5 below.

5. Take everything apart and scrub everything down like your life depends on it. Use a dishwashing sponge that has a scruff pad on the back side. Also get and use an old tooth brush, one of those tooth brush looking things that has brass bristles, etc.. Get into all the nooks and crannies. To clean the ez cloner puks spread the puks and clean the inside of them while dunking into the bleach soap water at the same time.

6. After scrubbing is complete, rinse everything off with hot hot water. Then put everything back together.

7. Fill up your rez or cloner again with hot hot water and one of the products above to the same ratios listed. Do not use dishsoap this time. Run the system for 2 hours.

8. Dump the rez or cloner of all the sterilizing water. Get it all out. Use a shop vac to suck out what you can't drain.

9. This is your last rinse. Only add hot hot water this round to your rez or cloner. Run it for 1 hour. Drain it all out.

10. You are now ready to start growing.

richyrich · Mar 24, 2014

Jomofo,

How deep are those trays you have with the styro and net pots?

richyrich · Mar 25, 2014

(this is copied from the original slime club thread as it is relevant here too)

Gifted0ne said:

http://skunklabshc.com Not sure if ur suppose to put links in here or not though. Read through the info page and i saw some pics of it on the facebook page. I will prob try it out also.

Click to expand...

It's all good posting anything beneficial for the community here.

I took a look at the product root assist. Those tea packets look too small to me. What you begin with is what determines what you end up with. More initial material used equals many more microbes. Something such as the brown slime algae requires a massive microherd army.

I should know, I'm the one who battled the unnamed at the time snot slime without any information to be found on the internet anywhere. I researched it for years. I discovered its name, origin, and how to deal with and slay it. This slime club thread documents the journey and is one of if not the most epic threads in any mj website forum.

That company producing the root assist appears to be just another company attempting to profit off of what they discovered here thru my work. When I see things such as: add to rez every 3rd day, fridge for up to 10 days, use a funnel and cheese clothe, use GH Ancient Forest, etc., I know it's all bitten from my work here documented years ago.

Adding to the rez every 3rd day is what I figured out was best through experimentation and observation under microscope. Same with fridging it up to 10 days. Those directions were found no where else. In addition nobody was making teas specifically for hydroponic systems when I developed a tea recipe that anybody could gather the ingredients from available products on the market and make it themselves for FREE.

Don't be fooled guys and gals by all the plagiarism elsewhere from my work done here in the slime club thread. My hydro tea recipe has been mistakenly been going around by the name Heisenberg Tea at rollitup.org. No doubt it was lifted from this thread and the post was started over there in 8/2010 after this thread died down. My tea was documented here in 2008. The RichyRich Hydro Tea Recipe and Instructions name was attributed to me by members in this thread when I gave the hydro tea recipe to the community for FREE.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is Plagiarism?

Many people think of plagiarism as copying another's work or borrowing someone else's original ideas. But terms like "copying" and "borrowing" can disguise the seriousness of the offense:

According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, to "plagiarize" means

to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
to use (another's production) without crediting the source
to commit literary theft
to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source

In other words, plagiarism is an act of fraud. It involves both stealing someone else's work and lying about it afterward. Plagiarism is the passing off of another person's work as one's own. The key is that a person claims credit or appears to claim credit for writing done by someone else.

Plagiarism is theft of another person's writings or ideas. Generally, it occurs when someone steals expressions from another author's composition and makes them appear to be his own work. Plagiarism is not a legal term; however, it is often used in lawsuits. Courts recognize acts of plagiarism as violations of Copyright law.

Plagiarism is taking the ideas of another and using them without giving proper credit. It is a form of stealing and a serious academic offense.

Plagiarism is unethical behavior that can generate various forms of social punishment such as loss of reputation, failure in a course at a school, loss of a professional job, recall of a book, or forfeiture of a license.

To avoid plagiarism, give credit to previous researchers, and make your own significant contribution.

By correctly citing other people's works and ideas, a person has also agreed to engage in the kind of scholarly communication that is part of academic life. Citing another person's words is a way of giving credit to that person, and of acknowledging the importance of that person's work to one's own ideas. After all, you wouldn't want someone quoting your words or using your ideas without giving you credit, would you?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You don't need to buy anything else from anybody except for my hydro tea recipe. Unless, you have some mutant nasty microbe that is resistant to the tea. That is what I have been working on the last 5 years since I made the first hydro tea recipe. If you have experienced the slime, nobody should have to suffer thru it when the information is here for free. Nobody should be holding out the information from our fellow growers for profit or praise.

I haven't been in the forums for a few years and I have come to see how wildly successful my hydro tea recipe has become. Every mj website has people plagiarizing my work and many offering products for profit. Even retailers are taking advantage.

That's how incredible my tea recipe is. I'm sure tens of thousands of crops have been saved by now. Before and still, no product available at a hydro store can produce the results of my original hydro tea recipe.

Don't buy anything except what is needed to make your own RichyRich Hydro Tea that is below in my signature.

If you think you may have a mutant microbe infestation, you may be interested in my two other threads. Start off by going to the Rot Club thread. It's all about root rot and other root problems. It's going to be just as epic as this thread is. Link below.

Can't tell if you have root rot or the brown slime algae, come on in ?!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=282319

richyrich · Apr 1, 2014

richyrich · Apr 3, 2014

THIS IS A MUST READ FOR EVERY GROWER

The following is all about spores.

I am posting this info I cut and paste from various sites on the web. You must know about spores and it will become clear why once you have finished reading.

You will not defeat them. Know that right now. You will read below that quaternary ammonium compounds will not kill spores. That is what physan20 is. Not even physan20; what does that tell you. You must control them as I have stated over and over. They are a priority to control, especially, if you have been infected with root rot or the slime. Failure to control them will lead to to your garden's failure and that is guaranteed.

You must manage your grow rooms air to the extreme and if you suspect spores in your source water, you must treat that too!!! If you don't or try to half ass it, you are just asking to fail and prolong your suffering.

Air Filtration !!!
Air Filtration !!!
Air Filtration !!!

You can buy all the magical potions you want and waste your money, time, and sanity. You can continue to buy one after the other thinking each one is the one to end it all. You will fail and drive yourself crazy.

Most products out there are meant to protect and prevent. For some things like the slime, the products on the market do not even work. I went thru product after product. That is why I formulated the richyrich hydro tea recipe especially for hydroponic use. And, the pluses of my hydro tea recipe are that it's completely safe to use, it mimics mother nature's intentions, the roots are the healthiest you will ever see in hydro, the roots are explosive, the root balls are huge, and you get bumper crops. Who doesn't like any of that. That is nothing short of amazing.

Like I said, I tried all of the products on the market during my epic battle with the slime. Nothing can do what my hydro specific tea recipe can do. If you have gone thru the slime thread you will witness the testimonials. And since then, five years ago, it has become wildly popular that it has spread all over the place. The particular bone I have to pick is with people attempting to profit from it and plagiarizing my work; and, I have the ethical high ground.

Anyway, that is all being taken care of for me. All of the people using my original work for those reasons are in direct violation of copyright laws and are illegally infringing. They will find out soon enough. We all have unknown fellow growers/friends that care. Friends in our community that share good principles have offered to undertake the work for free. I gave them my blessing. Anyone is free to use my original work for their personal use and helping other people under proper copyright law. Use for personal gain is a no go, obviously, and rightly so.

Veering back on track, in the past I had tried all the beneficial microbe products available at the time and they all failed at protecting and preventing. That's how I ended up coming up with the recipe. I didn't simply try combining products until I got it right. I researched my ass off and taught myself all about the topics I needed to know. I figured out what was needed and then sought the specific microbes needed in available products that anyone could buy. That is how I came up with the hydro specific tea recipe. Oh, and I can't forget all of the experimenting I did too.

Anyway, I am mentioning this because I have gone much further since that time. This is the chief reason why I am back as it has become clear that there are resistant (mutant) strains of our root enemies.

ANYONE THAT HAS A ROOT PROBLEM THAT MY PREVIOUS GUIDANCE AND INSTRUCTIONS DO NOT HELP, I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT. POST YOUR PROBLEMS, PICTURES, AND STORY RIGHT IN THE FOLLOWING THREAD.

Can't tell if you have root rot or the brown slime algae, come on in ?!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=282319

If you don't feel comfortable doing so, then PM me. I have products I have been working on and I need study participants. I will send out my products for free in return for your participation from growers I choose which I believe make for a good study. I want the narliest and nastiest infections you guys have. Not the person who has their first root problem. You need to first try other courses of action that you can find here on icmag or from my instructions.

Okay, now on to the reading about spores... Remember, everything else is secondary!

-----------------------------------

Living cells are known as vegetative cells; the smallest unit of life that is like a tiny factory that is constantly working to live, grow and reproduce. But vegetative cells are vulnerable to damage from many environmental forces.

A few types of cells have a special trick up their “sleeve” that allows them to go dormant when environmental conditions become inhospitable. The trick is the ability to form spores. There are certain types of bacteria that form resistant bodies called endospores; structures that can weather the hostile conditions that kill vegetative cells.

When the living, vegetative cells of these genera are exposed to harsh environmental conditions, they undergo a process called sporulation and ultimately generate endospores. As one of the hardiest life forms, endospores are able to withstand high temperatures, drying out, freezing, radiation, chemicals and many other environmental conditions that would easily kill a vegetative cell.

Endospores are metabolically inactive, like a seed that is able to wait for the environment to again become favorable. Once environmental conditions improve, the endospore then germinates back into a living, vegetative cell that can grow and thrive.

In biology, a spore is a unit of asexual reproduction that may be adapted for dispersal and for survival, often for extended periods of time, in unfavorable conditions. By contrast, gametes are units of sexual reproduction. Spores form part of the life cycles of many plants, algae, fungi and protozoa. In bacteria, spores are not part of a sexual cycle but are resistant structures used for survival under unfavourable conditions.

In fungi, both asexual and sexual spores or sporangiospores of many fungal species are actively dispersed by forcible ejection from their reproductive structures. This ejection ensures exit of the spores from the reproductive structures as well as travelling through the air over long distances. Many fungi thereby possess specialized mechanical and physiological mechanisms as well as spore-surface structures, such as hydrophobins, for spore ejection. These mechanisms include, for example, forcible discharge of ascospores enabled by the structure of the ascus and accumulation of osmolytes in the fluids of the ascus that lead to explosive discharge of the ascospores into the air. The forcible discharge of single spores termed ballistospores involves formation of a small drop of water (Buller's drop), which upon contact with the spore leads to its projectile release with an initial acceleration of more than 10,000 g.

An endospore is a dormant, tough, and non-reproductive structure produced by certain bacteria from the Firmicute phylum. The name "endospore" is suggestive of a spore or seed-like form (endo means within), but it is not a true spore (i.e., not an offspring). It is a stripped-down, dormant form to which the bacterium can reduce itself. Endospore formation is usually triggered by a lack of nutrients, and usually occurs in Gram-positive bacteria. In endospore formation, the bacterium divides within its cell wall. One side then engulfs the other.

Endospores enable bacteria to lie dormant for extended periods, even centuries. Revival of spores millions of years old has been claimed. When the environment becomes more favorable, the endospore can reactivate itself to the vegetative state. Most types of bacteria cannot change to the endospore form.

Endospores can survive without nutrients. They are resistant to ultraviolet radiation, desiccation, high temperature, extreme freezing and chemical disinfectants.

Astrophysicist Steinn Sigurdsson said "There are viable bacterial spores that have been found that are 40 million years old on Earth – and we know they're very hardened to radiation." Common anti-bacterial agents that work by destroying vegetative cell walls do not affect endospores. Endospores are commonly found in soil and water, where they may survive for long periods of time. A variety of different microorganisms form "spores" or "cysts," but the endospores of low G+C Gram-positive bacteria are by far the most resistant to harsh conditions.

Some classes of bacteria can turn into exospores, also known as microbial cysts, instead of endospores. Exospores and endospores are two kinds of "hibernating" or dormant stages seen in some classes of microorganisms.

Endospores are resistant to most agents that would normally kill the vegetative cells they formed from. Unlike persister cells, endospores are the result of a focused morphological differentiation process specifically tied to nutrient limitation (starvation) in the environment and is initiated by quorum sensing within the "starving" population. Nearly all household cleaning products, alcohols, quaternary ammonium compounds and detergents have little effect.

Bacterial endospores are resistant to antibiotics, most disinfectants, and physical agents such as radiation, boiling, and drying. The impermeability of the spore coat is thought to be responsible for the endospore's resistance to chemicals. The heat resistance of endospores is due to a variety of factors.

cleto reyes · Apr 9, 2014

Hi richy first of all thank you for the tea recipe, i have been using my own version of it to some success for a couple of grows, i smoke my own medsso iv tried not to go the chemical route, the only ingredient i am missing is the ancient forest i am using some e.w.c i can get online.

i have had 2 good runs with your tea and i cant help but feel like the more runs i dothe less effective the tea works, i have tried everything but building a new system and buying new pumps, i believe what your saying i with spores is the reason behind the decline of my tea.

richy would you advise to renew system regularly to reduce spore build up?

and also do you think a dwrc system that drains will still suffer from these cyyano? im debating building a system like this i used to run after hearing heisenburg say slime wont bother the plants in flood and drain? what do you think to this richy is he talking sense?

thank you for your time i have also had to stop keeping mothers and cuttings because i did them in coco media and slime wont let anything grow healthy in coco nemore? which i dont hear others saying, have you encountered anyone else that cant grow coco crops pre slime? thanks again sry for the rubbish wording im on my phone and its hard totype a post.

cleto reyes · Apr 9, 2014

also worth mentioning when first running the tea i was using a uv filter on my r.o water before it went into the system, do you think it is worth using uv again? i stopped before because it was a hassle and didnt seem to make a big differenceat the time or i would have noticed, maybe i didnt notice again because it takes time for the spores to build up and cause problem?

one thing i havent tried yet is organic soil, i could use an alternate way of growing because at the moment im bound to the system that crippled me in the first place and a year on im now getting frustrated with the root problems and rdwc

richyrich · Apr 9, 2014

welcome to the club cleto reyes,

I don't have full faith in UV because of the following:

As one of the hardiest life forms, endospores are able to withstand high temperatures, drying out, freezing, radiation, chemicals and many other environmental conditions that would easily kill a vegetative cell.

They are resistant to ultraviolet radiation, desiccation, high temperature, extreme freezing and chemical disinfectants.

Nearly all household cleaning products, alcohols, quaternary ammonium compounds and detergents have little effect.

Bacterial endospores are resistant to antibiotics, most disinfectants, and physical agents such as radiation, boiling, and drying. The impermeability of the spore coat is thought to be responsible for the endospore's resistance to chemicals.

richyrich · Apr 9, 2014

cleto reyes,

I wouldn't take much advice from heisenberg. As far as I'm concerned s/he is a complete fraud that learned everything and parrots the info from the slime club thread for some reason, maybe the need for internet fame... pathetic. Slime can definitley get you in a flood and drain, so right there s/he does not know what s/he is talking about. Flood and drain always use a recirculating rez.

Just EWC should be fine with a mild infection. If you need heavy duty, head on over to my other thread. I have other things I have been working on.
Can't tell if you have root rot or the brown slime algae, come on in ?!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=282319

DTW is a winning choice. This I knew back in 2007/2008. Read the following post.

GOT SLIME? Slime Haters Club (part 2 to Strange Slime build up on roots)

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.

New member

New member

Out of the slime, finally.

Out of the slime, finally.