lc mix vs soil: Moisture retention?

Hey Guys,
I'm currently working on my 2nd grow (Joey Weed A11 F2's) and after limping my first grow past the finish line in noname organic soil, I switched over to FFOF thinking it would be a little more "set it and forget it", but it is too hot for 2 of the 4 seeds I popped. 2 are loving it!. Anyways, I'm here to say I just don't know enough to understand what my plants need at this point. I read and look over MyNamesStich's AWESOME sick plant thread, but when I think I have N def, I now think I'm frying them. I don't know I'm new!! Being colorblind doesn't help much either.

Anyways, I have avoided soilless mediums because of water retention and my thought was that I would need to water more like hydro or do hydro but that isn't what I want. I run super stealth micro in 2 cabs and it isn't uncommon for me to not be able to check on my babies for a day or two, and although I have another beginner grower friend that I trust when I am out of town, it would be nice to not have to rely on him for weekend trips. Hydro is not an option for me because of sound, space, and my preference for non-hydro buds. I want to go organic or close to it.

So I read through much of the beginners thread stickied here and I am interested in the LC mix #2 with recipie #1 for nutes. I couldn't find it anywhere on here about moisture retention for those mixes compared to soil. My Moms are in 3" and 4" pots, and my flowering plants roughly 1/2 galon and/or soda bottles for fill ins. My goal (almost there) is to be running a monthly perpetual harvest.

So, of what I saw in the listed mixes, Sunshine Mix #1 seems to be the one for holding moisture. Can somebody direct me to what is the best in this regard that would work with the recipie #1 feeding mix. I'm sure I will move on to tea's and home made composts soon, but for now I would just like to keep it as simple as possible. I have a grow shop in town so I can get most anything, but I noticed they didn't have promix on their website even though I think I saw it on the shelves.

Jed

Sidenote... after reading this it may seem I'm just another 14yr old punk growing weed in his parents house, but no. My stealth needs come from the fact I have an ex-wife and a 11yr old daughter. My veg/mom/clone cab is in the entertainment center in my living room and my flower cab is part of my headboard. My kid is often found doing her momework on the floor 2 feet in front of my veg cab and I had a my landlord working in my bathroom, 3 ft from my bedroom door for an hour midway through my last flower cycle. I have also noticed that the FFOF is very smelly, and maybe someone can compare the smells of the lc2 +r1 to FFOF since it is such a common soil. I like the smell but it certainly smells. A can of linen gel fixes it, but prefer less odor if possible. Thats the veg cab btw... I run a carbon filter for flowering!

I've tried #1 w/peat and #2 w/FFOF. My problem with both was that they retained too much water for too long.

I even had a hard time germing in #1.

Just my experience, I'm sure others will disagree.

przcvctm said:

I've tried #1 w/peat and #2 w/FFOF. My problem with both was that they retained too much water for too long.

I even had a hard time germing in #1.

Just my experience, I'm sure others will disagree.

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all good... I'm not looking for just 1 opinion! I do the paper towel germ method, and that is probably close to 100% with viable seeds. How was too much retention bad? Did you have root issues?

Just trying to understand all of this!

Jed

For me, 50% of my seed rotted in the LC mixes. The inside of the seed and most of the tap root were rotted brown, kind of like the brown around a worm hole in an apple.

I choose to germ in the medium for less root disruption and have good success, except for when tried in soggy soilless.

For me, it's one of those imponderables like how can you get a job without experience when you need a job to get experience. HOW DO YOU GET A SOILLESS MEDIUM THOROUGHLY MOIST WITHOUT SATURATING IT?

That one keeps me up nights.

przcvctm said:

For me, 50% of my seed rotted in the LC mixes. The inside of the seed and most of the tap root were rotted brown, kind of like the brown around a worm hole in an apple.

I choose to germ in the medium for less root disruption and have good success, except for when tried in soggy soilless.

For me, it's one of those imponderables like how can you get a job without experience when you need a job to get experience. HOW DO YOU GET A SOILLESS MEDIUM THOROUGHLY MOIST WITHOUT SATURATING IT?

That one keeps me up nights.

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cool. Got it. What are you using now for a medium? What container sizes?

Jed

I had good results with LC#2 mix. I just gave the soil one good soaking in one gallon pots, popped the seeds in and they all sprouted within 4 days. I didn't need to water at all for the first week, after that I just used a turkey baster to lightly water the surface of the soil for the next few days.

Go for the most water retentive soil that you and your plant can manage. (within reason!)

You can learn to water differently. When you have to go away for a week, you can't teach your soil to dry out slower.

don't fool yourself into believing the wife will do it. It's just not on their list.

maryjohn said:

Go for the most water retentive soil that you and your plant can manage. (within reason!)

You can learn to water differently. When you have to go away for a week, you can't teach your soil to dry out slower.

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That's the way I look at it too. The watering thing hasn't been one of my newbie issues, so I think I can keep a handle on NOT over watering. I just don't want to be a daily slave to my plants.

My big issues have been ph on my first grow, but now own a hannah ph meter so that is behind me. This round I have bumpy leaves that are wrinkling, yellowing lower leaves. I added N thinking that was it but no change, my humidity was low so I fixed that and no big change, I was using lime but mistakenly bought hydrologised instead of dolimite so it could be mg as I heard A11 can be mg hogs... it would be easier if they were all doing the same thing!

The worst of the bunch got a good flush last week and is getting foliar fed with epsom salts. It is growing some but not looking quite how I want... I'm giving them a few more days then I will post pics in a help me thread. It is just so hard to know what they need without the experience of multiple grows under your belt! Not looking for advice here on my problems yet but advice on how to avoid them in the next round as well as an answer to my water retention issues. 2 of the 4 are going great and unless they are both males or one of the others is the absolute bomb, neither of the gimps are going to be a mom anyways! I hope to know sex in another week or two. Cuttings were planted on the 21st and the 24th and are in the flower box.

So compared to soil, is this type of medium going to buy me a little more time between waterings when using small pots? I think that is what I am reading but nobody has just said that yet. Is it common to use these mixes for bonzai'd moms?


Thanks for the input guys!
Jed

maryjohn said:

don't fool yourself into believing the wife will do it. It's just not on their list.

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How many wives do you have?

Just one wife. lol, I meant wives in general, smartass. Spouses is a better word perhaps. It's about having to deal with your hobby.

Sometimes, she will water, but sometimes not. Once a week she can handle, any more and she "forgets" some waterings.

So does nobody want to tell me if the soless mediums hold more, less or equal water to premade potting mixes like ffof? I don't want to bitch, but this seems like what should be an easy answer for anyone who has used both.

Thanks in advance.

Jed

I use LC # 1 and feel it holds the moisture very well. Even under a fan and a 1k light I only watered about once a week. It's also generally better to allow the mix to get a bit dry before watering again IMO. On another matter, many folks here will agree that LC or any nutrient rich mix is just too hot for popping seeds or for young tender sprouts. A simple mix of EWC, peat and perlite will do the job. Theres lots of good info in the Organics for Beginners" thread listed here. Good luck.

I normally go into jiffy peat pucks once the seed sprouts. I recently tried starting
into a dixie cup with just lc#1 mix and I had a 50% failure rate where as the others always grow perfectly. Maybe if I always did it I could become more proficient but for me it's just a no-brainer and I like to stick with what works.

wuzzenme said:

I use LC # 1 and feel it holds the moisture very well. Even under a fan and a 1k light I only watered about once a week. It's also generally better to allow the mix to get a bit dry before watering again IMO. On another matter, many folks here will agree that LC or any nutrient rich mix is just too hot for popping seeds or for young tender sprouts. A simple mix of EWC, peat and perlite will do the job. Theres lots of good info in the Organics for Beginners" thread listed here. Good luck.

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Thank you sir! I appreciate the information. I have no problems popping seeds, just mostly looking for the best way to keep my plants happy. I do some seeds but hope to be primarily cuttings. either seeds or cuttings can go into my cloner so that part is covered. In the original artical I think it said to put seedlings and cuttings into the lc mix without any of the nutrients.

Thanks!
Jed

przcvctm said:

For me, it's one of those imponderables like how can you get a job without experience when you need a job to get experience. HOW DO YOU GET A SOILLESS MEDIUM THOROUGHLY MOIST WITHOUT SATURATING IT?

That one keeps me up nights.

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Micorrhiza and bacteria through their activity (and bacterial slime) create capillary areas of water that the plant roots can use at any time. Like a pocket of water. So in a good organic soiless mix it will seem dry but the plants will be happy.

Also did your seedlings turn purple and die really fast in the FFOF? Mine did so now I make my own mix. That shit is too expensive anyway. I start seedlings in 2 1\2 inch pots of Sunshine Mix Natural and Organic. It claims to have beneficials in it and I add some extra perlite.

NUG-JUG said:

Micorrhiza and bacteria through their activity (and bacterial slime) create capillary areas of water that the plant roots can use at any time. Like a pocket of water. So in a good organic soiless mix it will seem dry but the plants will be happy.

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Good to know, thanks!

NUG-JUG said:

Also did your seedlings turn purple and die really fast in the FFOF?

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No, my seedlings love it but when they got about 3 leaf sets a couple (2 of 4) started going haywire on me starting with the bottom leafsets all yellowing and dying off. I also agree that the ffof is overpriced. I am going to use up what I have and then go to the lc mix I think. Although with all the amendments that adds up too!

My grow is so small it doesn't matter though I suppose. small price to pay if I can get it right. I'm very close to getting things dialed in in terms of my space, and cloning is going well, but once the plants get a little finiky on me I'm stumped.

I just found nanners on one of the easy ones, so now its down to two finiky ones and one that is extremely vigorous. The one that is giving me the most problems is the one showing the physical characteristics of the ideal pheno for this strain (apollo 11, genius pheno) so that is unfortunately my biggest concern in getting this dialed. Because that plant (assumably) hasn't ever been very healthy, I haven't been able to get a clone to take. 2 more rooting now though, so hopefully they will make it. The first batch of clones I did I didn't let the roots come in enough before planting them... live and learn!

Jed