Question about soil (invisible flower pot)

Mountain-Ninja · Nov 22, 2016

Hey guys this is my first post on any forum and I'm sure I'll have many more because I am always thinking of different stuff. But here goes my question. I have always used the rich native soil to grow my plants and I would always fertilize here and there during the season. Well, next year I'm going to be growing in a spot with poor soil, very sandy. So my thought (like I've heard of others doing) was to dig about 25 gallon holes and feel the holes in with my own mixture of fertile soil. I started thinking that I would like to make these permanent honey holes to use year after year and that throughout the season and off season I could till in a gallon or so of goodies (organic compost etc.) to keep giving these holes the boost they need to become permanently good holes to grow in. But I seen on a video where somebody was actually lineing there holes with garbage bags before they added there fertile soil to the hole. First I thought well a garbage bag wouldn't be a permanent restriction to keep your root system out of the poor native soil because the bag would deteriorate. Then I started wondering that if you have this "honey hole" full of goodness then would your root system cling to the soil in that hole? Would your roots not venture so much into the poor soil? Do roots chase and stick to where the nutrients are plentiful?

What do you guys think? Any and all advice would be a great help on clearing my brain up a little

mowood3479 · Nov 22, 2016

Idk about the garbage bag idea.. If u don't want to just dig a hole and use amended soil in the hole then I'd bury a smart (felt/fabric) pot, that way water and roots could penetrate thru it if they needed.
A garbage bag would hold water n if u got a lot of rain it could potentially drown a plant.
It could work tho if u put some holes in it for water to drain.
My vote goes for burying a fabric pot over a garbage bag tho

Mountain-Ninja · Nov 22, 2016

Mowood3479 you've got a good point, I would assume that you would have to slice some holes in the bottom of the garbage bag like you mentioned. Now I've seen the fabric grow pots before but I have no experience with using them. Are you familiar with how they hold up in terms of year after year usage?

moses wellfleet · Nov 22, 2016

I think outdoor growing is as close to nature as you are going to get. Garbage bags? I will pretend I didn't read that! Dig holes and backfill with organic amendments, or the fabric pot suggested above. You may also want to take a look at Hugelkultur, which is rotting logs buried in the ground to provide moisture and microbial activity for the soil! Don't try complicate things! Enjoy the grow and the prep

mowood3479 · Nov 22, 2016

I've had some fabric pots out in the elements for 5 years or so.. They're still intact.. I'd imagine they'd last around 5 years in a hole.. Mayb less idk

Mountain-Ninja · Nov 22, 2016

Mosses wellfleet I agree that the garbage bag idea is a bit bizarre but I understand the concept so Im working off of that concept to try and build and create my "honey holes" the best I possibly can and also built to be productive years to come with the help of adding amendments every now and again. The rotted log idea you mentioned is a good idea and is pretty self explanatory as to how it is beneficial to the soil although I did not think of it! Also biochar is said to be a really good way to permanently amend your soil.

Mowood3479 I'm defiantly interested in the fabric pots I'm going to look into them a bit more. Thanks for the idea. And yes it seems like they wouldn't last as long being buried in the ground like you mentioned. I just need some way to keep my roots feeding off of my good soil in the holes and not wondering off into the bad soil surrounding my holes.

brown_thumb · Nov 22, 2016

What about raised beds?

Mountain-Ninja · Nov 22, 2016

Brown thumb good question. That has crossed my mind but I'm leaning more towards the in the ground/stealthy type of grow. I'm switching a lot of things up in next years season (using the Internet as a resource for one, buying seeds (feminized) that will be a first, single plant sites instead of patches etc.. See here in ky we have basically created a strain of seeds that require very little, meaning you can leave them be and let them do there thing instead of making trips out to them left and right creating paths leading to them and all of that bad stuff (unwanted attention) to your plants. So the reason I'm wanting to keep my grow in the ground instead of on top is so that the plants can benefit from all of the water in the ground instead of just what's in a pot and also so that the plants root system stays a more consistent temperature..

moses wellfleet · Nov 22, 2016

Yes the roots will gravitate to the moist nutrient rich soil, you do not need a barrier to try and prevent them growing outwards. Make sure there is plenty of compost and earthworms in your holes to provide humus. You refer to the sandy soil as a bad thing but drainage is good, cannabis needs well drained soil. Your situation is not unique many peeps been down this road before. Concentrate on providing a living soil for the plants and you will have an epic grow!!

Mountain-Ninja · Nov 22, 2016

Moses wellfleet awesome answer buddy I'm glad to hear that somebody agrees with what I've been "thinking" the roots would do. And yes the holes I'm digging are 25-35 gallons at each hole I'm saving 5 gallons of the native sandy soil that I dig out so that when it's time to fill my holes up with my rich soil mixture I can mix in the 5 gallons of sandy soil with it all for a nice balanced soil

moses wellfleet · Nov 22, 2016

Ok let us know what happens, I hope to see a thread with heavy buds!

Slipnot · Nov 22, 2016

brown_thumb said:
What about raised beds?

There are allot of problems with raised beds that many forget first of is earths insulation allowing heat to escape or opposite to keep heat in

with raised beds your placing soll into the elements just like growing in pots there is no equalization

test it your self grow same strain one in pot an one in earth see how much more you need to water the pot compared to other .
look at the issues heat stress vs other and so on

As for this post personally if i was making honey holes lets say 50 gallon then i would probably use 50 gallon barrels with holes and land scape fabric lined.
i would then have some form of eco station for instance 8 inch PVC pipe in middle with pre drilled slots etc where you can place greens and manures as well as worms .

Plant beside the pipe this way you have a compost bin going on at the same time.
When watering make sure your compost pipe is moist :biggrin:

not only will this allow leaching of nutrients into your soil but also allow better air exchange

Its a win win

seed grow second pic is 4 weeks old in 23 gallon barrel cut out water only

aridbud · Nov 22, 2016

Fabric pots or netting....allows roots to grow and not suffocate in plastic garbage bags....sheesh!

Mountain-Ninja · Nov 22, 2016

Mosses wellfleet I sure will! Looking forward to sharing my grow story next year and hearing from you all during the season!

Slipknot Thats a interesting set up you've got there glad to see people trying and testing different techniques. And man 50 gallons of rich soil per plant would be amazing for my plants. But in my terrain, type of environment and the quanity I usually do it would be a lot of money and even more work. I would like to try it out with a few plants tho

aridbud · Nov 23, 2016

See how a few plants do. If they succeed or growing well, you know you are onto something and continue doing what you are doing..

There is a thing of over composting/fertilizing....which will burn them. Plants have a way of telling us they like or dislike their environment.

Ajunta Pall · Nov 23, 2016

A couple things come to mind reading this thread, first 25 gallon holes are too small to be sustainable. Don't know exactly what you mean by honey hole unless you mean a container in the ground. Because that's what you're gonna get, if you want a sustainable spot then you're gonna have to work the soil. You need a bigger hole at least 100 gallons, a big plant's roots will need room, and 25 gallons may not work. Otherwise you'll just have to keep hauling soil to your spots year after year.

Next raised beds are one of the oldest agricultural techniques used to increase yields of any kind of harvest, the double dig is labor intensive but if you're going to dig a hole for a large container then you should consider all of your options. Another thing you can do to your raised beds is shape it conclave like a contact lense and plant at the top in the center that way when you water, it will run downhill and will be better distributed than just a flat level raised bed. That's how we do it at the farm I run with legit plants.

Honestly dude go to a real gardening site to learn more about growing in general you'll get way better advice there on things than here. Ic mag has some good information but stoners can be well narrow minded, myself included, in what they suggest. I learned more about growing plants in general elsewhere and started growing the fuck out of veggies and shit experimenting with techniques in the garden then using them in the field to grow weed. What resulted was an increase in yield not so much from growing monster plants but from keeping more plants alive to harvest.

moses wellfleet · Nov 23, 2016

Ajunta Pall said:
A couple things come to mind reading this thread, first 25 gallon holes are too small to be sustainable. Don't know exactly what you mean by honey hole unless you mean a container in the ground. Because that's what you're gonna get, if you want a sustainable spot then you're gonna have to work the soil. You need a bigger hole at least 100 gallons, a big plant's roots will need room, and 25 gallons may not work. Otherwise you'll just have to keep hauling soil to your spots year after year.

Next raised beds are one of the oldest agricultural techniques used to increase yields of any kind of harvest, the double dig is labor intensive but if you're going to dig a hole for a large container then you should consider all of your options. Another thing you can do to your raised beds is shape it conclave like a contact lense and plant at the top in the center that way when you water, it will run downhill and will be better distributed than just a flat level raised bed. That's how we do it at the farm I run with legit plants.

Honestly dude go to a real gardening site to learn more about growing in general you'll get way better advice there on things than here. Ic mag has some good information but stoners can be well narrow minded, myself included, in what they suggest. I learned more about growing plants in general elsewhere and started growing the fuck out of veggies and shit experimenting with techniques in the garden then using them in the field to grow weed. What resulted was an increase in yield not so much from growing monster plants but from keeping more plants alive to harvest.

Can we have a link to that real gardening site please? I'm not too baked to cut and paste right now! :laughing:

moses wellfleet · Nov 23, 2016

Mountain Ninja if your tiny stoner brain is like mine then just stay right here at icmag and have a look at this epic thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=210961&page=2

See how I made a claim and then backed it up with a link! Really not bad for a small minded stoner. Or so I like to believe living in my limited hot boxed world!

Ajunta Pall · Nov 23, 2016

Okay one of the garden sites I go to is davesgarden.com there's information there on how to improve sandy soil and regional forums if you live in the US. The double dig method I learned about I read about in two books How to Grow More Vegetables and Successful Small Scale Farming: An Organic Approach. So I have no links for that but hopefully you can see that not only did I make a claim I can back it up too. You should just Google double dig garden beds and save the cash.

Don't know what got that other guy to be so condescending, Moses was it? But let me explain narrow minded. Lots of folks post on this site about digging holes and hauling shit tons of soil and ammendments out to their sites. That can be hard work but is it necessary? Maybe in cases like yours it can since you know that your soil poor, but I know folks who would haul soil to places that were fertile enough on their own.

Other things are did you do a percolation test? Sandy soils drain fast and can become bone dry in the summer, if you put a trash bag in the ground with holes poked in it whatever water you add to your hole could be easily leached out into the surrounding ground. Especially if your soil mix is loose the water will pool in the bottom of the trash bag and be wicked out of the holes. If the environment your plants are in is lush and wet in the spring it could be hot and dry in the summer meaning you may have to haul in lots of water and if you don't prepare right it could be a disappointing harvest.

If your soil is also thin and rocky too other competing plants will invade your holes or area around your holes if nutrients are leached out too, stealing water and nutrients. You see I tried growing myself in poor rocky thin soil with poor water retention if you think you can do just enough to get a decent harvest you may be underestimating things. I don't think you're a noob, but growing in a dry area can be tricky more so if you're unfamiliar with where you're growing.

moses wellfleet · Nov 23, 2016

Well I took a look at Davesgarden.com an awesome interesting site packed full of information with lots of different sections on various subjects. Thank you for that!

Ajunta Pall as somebody who knows that site could you point me in the direction of the cannabis section?

Question about soil (invisible flower pot)

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