BREEDER MALES

one Q · May 15, 2011

Dutchgrown said:
My selection of males are to some degree based on simple science, the basic principles of genetics, and the probability of inheritance, along with some rather complex calculations...coupled with 20+ years experience. Knowing one's way around a Punnet Square, and knowing what goals you are looking to achieve, is the best start for any of you new to breeding.

so can you just sum all that up with one quick sentence so I can be a pro right now? :dance013:

Kidding obviously.

one Q · May 15, 2011

but seriously.

DutchGrown- Do you write this stuff down? Do you have software? Is it ALL IN YOUR HEAD??
Say, you look at a group of potential Mothers and Fathers. Do you sit down with each "couple" and say "this match will likely give me THESE results and map them out. Do that for every "couple," then test the progeny to see if you were right, and to see what the Recessive traits are?

So you have the kids of a selected couple and you can OBVIOUSLY see the dominant traits, do you then map out the RECESSIVE traits? Then you end up knowing your line In-&-Out. Just sortof venting my thoughts... [/shutingmouth]

JWP · May 16, 2011

DG sumed it up in one word "probability". Its very simple; like begets like.

The best breeders would be keeping records of the frequency of traits both wanted and unwanted are showing up in future generations. Then scraping the whole project if it isnt going in a positive direction. Or at least putting the project on hold or backtracking to a previous generation. How many do you know that do anything like this?

If your goal is an IBL then you would be selecting multiple males giving you a higher probability of homogeneous traits both wanted and unwanted. With this diversity comes less control.

The best F1s i have seen all use a single male...

inquest · May 16, 2011

Single mom/dad F1's make excellent offerings for consumers. Limited genes, means limited expression, means a higher chance of a more productive growroom/field. My preference would be a cultivar split into two. One line selected/worked for high yield. The other worked for high potency. Both may not be all that impressive by themselves, but combined into their children, you should end up with something valuable, saleable.

As far as early culling of ALL potential rejects, it might not be the best route, since most outstanding individuals generally pay for their particular gift by having an ailment of some kind. Think Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Tiny Bomb, the list goes on! You must find the mate that compliments their weaknesses and enhances their strengths.

Multiple partners (lol) definitely gives you much more variety. Variety is what allows a population to suvive for long periods of time. But, there are many, many traits that every plant/animal has and we are only interested in just a few. If these multiples all express the desired traits you would gain little by using only one.

OneQ, Some good tools to use are flow charts, S1 testing your candidates, breed/goal standards, photos/notes (obviously!), Ne equations, and space to deal with the probability issue. The breed/goal standards can actually be generated during the first few generations because at this point you are becoming familiar with what is available for traits.

silverhazefiend · May 16, 2011

Has anyone cubed a male ? ..like how u would a female? ..

one Q · May 16, 2011

Good stuff Inquest.

I agree about S1s and shit. I think that it's a combination of Bottle Necking and BX'ing to get what you want.

ie, crossing wanted traits to ONE male, to maybe isolate that/those traits... Then next gen open pollination with many males with desired traits from previous generations to sort of, excuse my horrible use of the jargon, backcross to many males to open up the variety while still keeping it within the line. This may be total crap so correct my line of thinking if I am wrong.

(this is a great thread with good potential. Im just trying to keep the ideas flowing and convo going...)

This should be moved to the breeder forum, maybe we;ll get more ppl sharing ideas?

Highersolutions · May 17, 2011

Purkle

Purkle

Here is a pic of my Purkle(Purple Urkle X The Purps) male at just over 2 weeks of 12/12. This male was chosen for my Urkle BX and I hope to eventually get the Purple Urkle cubed. This male was selected for his overall vigor, production, structure and coloration. He exhibited the closest resemblance to the momma(urkle) in structure, smell, and overall appearance. I know you cant tell from this pic taken at only 2+ weeks but he showed great trich production and ended up with nice purple coloration when he finished(not temp induced). I finished the BX project and will be searching for that next great male to continue the project.Peace

inquest · May 17, 2011

What's up One,

A bit of Chimera info (paraphrased of course): Backcrossing is most useful when attempting to introduce a trait into a stable true breeding line. If you BX to a hetero (Aa, or whatever) plant you will NEVER get stability. EVER.

The way I understand this would be: Deep Chunk - breeds true for many traits and is what most would agree on as an IBL. It breeds true for fairly low yield. Take a few beans from many you have on hand and cross them with say.... Bigbud. Select the best yielders. Cross them to themslves as reversed and standard females (easier than dealing with males). Grow these seeds, S1 test them all, and keep the clones that produce very little yield variation in the test population. These clones breed true for higher yield (homozygous). Repeat the entire process so far, as many times as it takes to get some good clones (S1's show little variation) the more of these you have the better. Now you're ready to Backcross these clones into the DC population to increase the frequency that high yield traits show up. Grow a shit ton of seeds out from the backcross and keep the high yielders. Rinse and repeat a couple of times, like 4.

At this point if you've used enough plants for each generation you should have a higher yielding line of DC, with not too many rejects and an acceptable amount of yield variance. As long as you've selected for plants similar to DC but with higher yield there will be very little Bigbud in there.

As far as bottlenecking... yes you want to "bottleneck" a few desireable traits while leaving variance in many other traits.

My 2cents anyways...

one Q · May 17, 2011

Which is why you NEED A GOAL. Cause you have to be able to dump females that dont move in the direction youre headed. Or you end up with beans that suck and you give them out and spoil your rep as a breeder.

Shit even just giving away "badly crossed" seeds is not the best +K in my book.

one Q · May 20, 2011

bump?

inquest · May 21, 2011

Anybody else have pics of their best males?

PistilPete · Jun 1, 2011

DJ Short's Blueberry. I just used this guy to make some beans. Dark purple stems, flowers and some leaves. Resiny. He just plain reeks of blueberries. Big, tight flower clusters on the tops. This pic is of a lower branch, i'll try to get some shots of the tops soon.

Phillthy · Jun 2, 2011

super silver chemdog haze male

stonedwarrior · Jun 2, 2011

inquest said:
What's up One,

A bit of Chimera info (paraphrased of course): Backcrossing is most useful when attempting to introduce a trait into a stable true breeding line. If you BX to a hetero (Aa, or whatever) plant you will NEVER get stability. EVER.

The way I understand this would be: Deep Chunk - breeds true for many traits and is what most would agree on as an IBL. It breeds true for fairly low yield. Take a few beans from many you have on hand and cross them with say.... Bigbud. Select the best yielders. Cross them to themslves as reversed and standard females (easier than dealing with males). Grow these seeds, S1 test them all, and keep the clones that produce very little yield variation in the test population. These clones breed true for higher yield (homozygous). Repeat the entire process so far, as many times as it takes to get some good clones (S1's show little variation) the more of these you have the better. Now you're ready to Backcross these clones into the DC population to increase the frequency that high yield traits show up. Grow a shit ton of seeds out from the backcross and keep the high yielders. Rinse and repeat a couple of times, like 4.

At this point if you've used enough plants for each generation you should have a higher yielding line of DC, with not too many rejects and an acceptable amount of yield variance. As long as you've selected for plants similar to DC but with higher yield there will be very little Bigbud in there.

As far as bottlenecking... yes you want to "bottleneck" a few desireable traits while leaving variance in many other traits.

My 2cents anyways...

I think you just broke my fucking brain.

SOTF420 · Jun 3, 2011

inquest said:
Anybody else have pics of their best males?

Sweet Tooth #4 male, primary pollinator of the IBL generation that was recently made.

Saved at least an OUNCE of his pollen, properly dried and frozen in seperate little packs for future usage. :good:

He eventually snapped over his top under his own top flowers weight. That cluster was very solid & dense he also had trichomes on the stems and a very aromatic candy citrus GF scent to him since seedling stage on all of his fan leafs. :canabis:

meltybubble · Jun 3, 2011

Now thats a big daddy!

googolsack · Jun 4, 2011

Hello, This was a male from a growdoc mix that grew very fast and was very smelly. I was hoping that it was a female but it wasn't. It grew tall and spindly with male flowers everywhere, but it got moved around a bit, without any regular hours. I think it stressed it and it started growing pistils.

InsanityRules · Jun 4, 2011

Good Stuff peeps. Thanks for all the contributions. I'm lovin this shit!!!!

Keep em rollin if ya got em. I never tire of these killer males!

I.R...

SOTF420 · Jun 4, 2011

We must just like looking at the balls :bigeye:

Show us the balls from the big studs! Ohhhh yah baby :woohoo:

Buncha damn queer ready for the big steers lmao :biggrin:

GP73LPC · Jun 4, 2011

SOTF420 said:
Sweet Tooth #4 male

Whoa, the Peter North of the Cannabis Porn world... :jerkit:

WOOHOO !!! :dance013:

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