Increasing Terpenes Production and/or Reducing Terpenes Loss During Cure

rrog · Nov 19, 2011

highonmt said:
Ditto for the direct wind on your plant which is a really bad idea imo.

I just adjusted my fan in my little drying tent. Thanks for that.

EDIT: I went and turned it off. Rh was 40%. The tent is about 1" of the cement floor, and there's air blowing around. I cut them 48 hours ago. I'd like to boost the humidity in the tent so I'll monitor

Skunk, what you say is very interesting. Easy to hang that way. I assume the process leaves the big sun leaves on also? You said your friend had a cold room. Like a basement at 68F?

dramamine · Nov 19, 2011

I had to stash a whole harvest, freshly chopped, in a refrigerator overnight due to some security circumstances. It was a last resort, and stressed me out something awful.

But..... not only did the smells not diminish, the aromas actually noticeably increased. I was surprised at the time, but discovered the concept of cold conditioning and everything started to make sense. It would be interesting to use a walk-in cooler to hang dry. The fridge also completely contained the smell, much to my relief at the time.

rrog · Nov 19, 2011

Very very interesting. Makes me want to load up the buds, put in a tote and set it out in the cold

I love the purple. Here's one from my micro-grow area.

highonmt · Nov 19, 2011

rrog said:
Very very interesting. Makes me want to load up the buds, put in a tote and set it out in the cold

I love the purple. Here's one from my micro-grow area.

Nice pic man, Cold condition before you chop ftw. I do 2 weeks of cold circa 40 degree nights 80f days and 3 days of ice on the roots then three more ice on the roots in the dark. Fools the plant in senescence by simulating onset of fall/ winter they chuck the chlorophyll and try to finish seed before frost. You will be amazed the colors your green strain become and the potency and smoothness is awesom. Cold after the chop seems inefficient, I think the smells increase that dram noticed is due to the high rh and closed environment. 75 and 50percent seems about right for drying,
Cheers
HM

rrog · Nov 19, 2011

I've heard of others doing the cold finish. Seems more intriguing now. I'll have an AC in the next grow room. I had thought about doing this but my tight space doesn't allow me to drop the temp easily.

So you'd think 70% Rh would be too high. I've done that high in the past with great success. I did 50% in my last grow. Now 40% Rh in this Plush Berry grow. The 50% produced similar texture to the 70% I'd say.

highonmt · Nov 21, 2011

rrog said:
I've heard of others doing the cold finish. Seems more intriguing now. I'll have an AC in the next grow room. I had thought about doing this but my tight space doesn't allow me to drop the temp easily.

So you'd think 70% Rh would be too high. I've done that high in the past with great success. I did 50% in my last grow. Now 40% Rh in this Plush Berry grow. The 50% produced similar texture to the 70% I'd say.

Just icing the roots 3days then icing 3 days in the dark will help alot and increase your yeild as well plus you're plant will produce terpenes to protect it's 'seed' and cannabinoids are terpenes so potency will increase as well as flavor. Keep room temps in the 70' s while adding ice and provide plenty of ventilation. 70 percent will work but will take longer to dry and you risk mold. 50 percent seems ideal for that perfect texture and smell/taste. Post up yer results.
CHeers,
HM

rrog · Nov 21, 2011

I'd like to try this. I have a SSH finishing up in a couple weeks. Maybe a good candidate

ChaosCatalunya · Nov 22, 2011

highonmt said:
HUH....jarring properly does not result in screwed up anything as long as you don't screw up and let condesation happen in the jar. If your herb is sufficiently dry jarring causes no 'fermentation' at all if it does you fukced up and yer herb is wet. This ain't tobacco where you bundle it and let is heat up. Every day one must shake or stir the jar/bucket to make sure it ain't clumping and then leave it open for a half hour to allow air exchange and prevent anaerobic fermentation.
Jarring prevents the aromatics from leaving your plant as it dries by letting the vapor pressure rise in a controlled space thus preventing further volitalization. Ditto for the direct wind on your plant which is a really bad idea imo. You know all that smell which by the way is also taste...well that smell is a whole bunch of volatile compounds mainly amines, esters, terpenes etc reaching the olfactory receptors in yer nose my friend. In order to get to your nose they left your plant material savey, well now imagine very gentle breezes and high vapor pressure due to high rh holding those lil tasty bits in yer herbs...mmm tastey eh. Also properly jarred and cured herb is hard and does not crumble when broken unlike rapidly dried herb which turns to dust. The smoothness and taste is worlds above rapid curing methods...although some folks do prefer a bottle of this years montana red eye to 20 year old bourbon which I believe parallels why some folks cant see a difference in beaster crispy herb vs slow cured kindness. Here is a pic of properly cured herb notice the trichs are still full and not shrunken and the leaves are not shriveled...

And here is a picture of beaster weed...wait I don't have any pics but you know it when you see it and we all have...

For instance here is a little story

I started working a while back for some beasters her in montucky who dried their herb in the light on laundry racks blasted by a box fan. Minimal taste crispy and light plus harsh tastes from chlorophyll and non fluorescing chlorophyll metabolites [chlorphyll is a pyrrolic compound and if you ever smelled pyrrole you would understand the harsh tastes] still in the plant tissue. I introduced them to cold conditioning to remove the chlorphyll, slow drying in the dark with a humidistat and curing in 5gallon buckets and people started buying the up herb cause it looked, smelled and tasted great... but the fan blasting was faster and easier and the chief dude said 'I can't tell the difference' so now they are back to the same old shittty methods their herb is crap again, they are losing their shirts...and just can't understand why... HM

HUH all you want mate, "jarring properly" is what many do not do, IMO, most people bag too wet I believe and mess up the product in the final furlong. If you do it right, yes, I accept it will not mess the weed up, but, from all I have seen I am not at all convinced that weed benifits from any extra hanging around with a few % extra Humidity.

I do think that you are totally correct with this :

"Ditto for the direct wind on your plant which is a really bad idea imo. You know all that smell which by the way is also taste...well that smell is a whole bunch of volatile compounds mainly amines, esters, terpenes etc reaching the olfactory receptors in yer nose my friend. In order to get to your nose they left your plant material savey, well now imagine very gentle breezes and high vapor pressure due to high rh holding those lil tasty bits in yer herbs...mmm tastey eh."

... Every single little touch will degrade the Aromatic Terpenes, yes a strong breeze will in theory be bad, but I have yet to really notice any degradation, whereas slightly "composted" weed is frequently clearly below par.

However, I do think you are contradicting yourself here:

"Every day one must shake or stir the jar/bucket to make sure it ain't clumping and then leave it open for a half hour to allow air exchange and prevent anaerobic fermentation."

Shaking and Stirring ? This will degrade the terpene glands, rupturing a certain %, a nice smell for you at the time, but lost from the overall end product.

Have you tried jarring properly dried weed that needs no further burping, drying ?

Bud crumbling to dust is because it is overdried, not specifically because it was dried rapidly, obviously you need to catch it at the right moment, but that is why I slow down the last part. I am talking about drying "briskly" not "fast", I dry plants whole and remove the fan leaves as soon as I can, 6 to 8 days normally hanging, then straight to the bag/jar.

Sick of trimming, and to preserve the bud, I often do not trim until I pull the bud out to smoke.

rrog · Nov 22, 2011

Jarring and curing with the Caliber hygrometers takes the guesswork out of the equation.

elmanito · Nov 22, 2011

The use of sea salt as fertilizer will increase the terpene fraction as that counts also for the use of rock dust.Less water content and more TDS is the result.

For keeping the terpenes intact you can use the freeze dried method with liquid nitrogen.(take care for your eyes & hands

)

Namaste :plant grow:

VerdantGreen · Nov 22, 2011

i think it depends on what your weed looks like when you harvest it. mine looks pretty ugly because nearly all of the leaves have yellowed and died.
i like drying to take about a week, hung in the cupboard in my bedroom (from which the air is ducted up into my grow above)
then i jar it, often chucking in a hygrometer - i like a humidity of 60-70% in there,
i dont really burp it unless the humidity is high. i guess im pretty lazy about curing.
taste and smell is always very good, my weed smells stronger than anyone else;s that ive tried - and people who have been smoking for 20+ years tell me consistently that mine is the best they've ever had.
so the point im making is that curing etc doesnt matter so much if the plant has already sucked the chlorophyll etc out of the buds for you.

VG

rrog · Nov 22, 2011

I have to say I'm not a fan of adding salt to a grow. Rock powders, Humus, EWC? Sure. Not salt.

elmanito · Nov 22, 2011

rrog said:
I have to say I'm not a fan of adding salt to a grow. Rock powders, Humus, EWC? Sure. Not salt.

Did you ever try it??? :tiphat:

Namaste

rrog · Nov 22, 2011

Christ no!

elmanito · Nov 22, 2011

rrog said:
Christ no!

So you already have an opinion, but no experience at all.BTW do you know that the fertilizers you use are also containing salts

Namaste

rrog · Nov 22, 2011

Not sodium chloride.

My point with this, as I and many others have commented on several other threads, is that trace minerals are available from many sources so why use a source that requires you to add sodium chloride.

elmanito · Nov 22, 2011

rrog said:
Not sodium chloride.

My point with this, as I and many others have commented on several other threads, is that trace minerals are available from many sources so why use a source that requires you to add sodium chloride.

Rock Dust is another source, but the delivery of the trace elements you will need soil organisms like bacteria, fungi etc.Sodium chloride in sea salt is the delivery system compound for the other minerals & trace elements.Sodium chloride is necessary for a complete chemical balance of sea salt.(pg 39 Sea Energy Agriculture).

Namaste :plant grow:

rrog · Nov 22, 2011

Sounds good!

rrog · Nov 22, 2011

highonmt said:
Cold condition before you chop ftw. I do 2 weeks of cold circa 40 degree nights 80f days and 3 days of ice on the roots then three more ice on the roots in the dark. HM

Curious if we're talking a few ice cubes or a layer of crushed ice on top of the soil?

I wish I could get air temps down below 60 at night. In case I'm successful, when you do the last three days in the dark, is the room cooled also?

highonmt · Nov 25, 2011

rrog said:
Curious if we're talking a few ice cubes or a layer of crushed ice on top of the soil?

I wish I could get air temps down below 60 at night. In case I'm successful, when you do the last three days in the dark, is the room cooled also?

bag ice from the quicky mart works great just a layer on top of the media or floating in the rez for hydro. The temps in the dark for those last three days should be about 70 ish just ice the roots. Always have warm temps during the day when icing under 12/12. Cold temps at night for 2 weeks just makes em even more clean and colorful. Always warm during the day tho. Cheers,
Sea solids are great I HEAR but with good nutrients in hydro not needed imho ...of course.
HM

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Increasing Terpenes Production and/or Reducing Terpenes Loss During Cure

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