Does a Male or Female Pass On More genetics to Their Offspring?

troutman · Feb 22, 2018

The following 2 quotes seem contradictory.

Sam_Skunkman said:
I have not sold seeds in years I am retired.
Sincerely, -SamS

Sam_Skunkman said:
I hope to in the next few years to grow 75,000+ Original Haze -SamS

Another thing Sam, I want to bring you attention to the Early Girl listing in the pic below that came from your old gallery.
It mentions "I didn't seed those." So who did? Because I was under the impression that you did it all alone.

Another thing in the same image under the listing of Acapulco Gold. It mentions "Produced in 1984 in Mexico.
No seeds grown yet." How is that possible I thought you grew the Acapulco Gold to create Skunk #1 in the
mid to late 70's?

Some things don't add up.

Sam_Skunkman · Feb 22, 2018

I did not seed the 5% Early Girl that were intersexed.

The Acapulco Gold is different then what I used in Skunk #1, these seeds in the Catalog were produced in Mexico and sold by me I did not make them.

Things do not add up if you do not understand the facts, now you do and maybe they add up?

With Cultivators Choice I was selling "Sacred Seeds" true breeding stock, "High Breed" hybrid stock and "Select Seeds" imported stock, the Select Seeds were collected by me from Imported Cannabis grown in other countries. I was trying to offer what I thought people could use.

As for me retiring I am retired now but will do a year or two of breeding work with Original Haze, not to sell the seeds, but to save what I consider the best Cannabis I have grown, I will give the finished work to others to use them commercially. I will maybe grow the clones for my own personal use if I like them as I expect. For me it is not work, it is what I love to do. I will have assistance from RCC I hope, and maybe hire a few University Agriculture Grads, as well as agricultural workers to do much of the work under my direction. I do have the 75,000+ pure Original Haze seeds already.
-SamS

troutman said:
The following 2 quotes seem contradictory.

Another thing Sam, I want to bring you attention to the Early Girl listing in the pic below that came from your old gallery.
It mentions "I didn't seed those." So who did? Because I was under the impression that you did it all alone.

Another thing in the same image under the listing of Acapulco Gold. It mentions "Produced in 1984 in Mexico.
No seeds grown yet." How is that possible I thought you grew the Acapulco Gold to create Skunk #1 in the
mid to late 70's?

Some things don't add up.

View Image

VerdantGreen · Feb 22, 2018

mobi50 said:
has anyone heard that Murphy' s law that goes...".never argue with a fool, people may not know the difference"?

lol, i think in this case most people will know the difference. SamS is one of the most knowledgeable and respected on the scene. He likely has more experience of cannabis than all the rest of us put together.

VG

mobi50 · Feb 22, 2018

exactly!

Kankakee · Feb 22, 2018

then why didn't he state its naturally Dioecious from day one ? instead of avoiding the facts will attack these one at a time per post. it clearly is the norm in european hemp that he claims that he helped foster. in his very first post he edited now he stated it was not the norm ...

Kankakee · Feb 22, 2018

and how come if these haze seeds are pure you or anybody today can't produce results of nevil's F1 lines..... as i stated before n.l. 5 / haze F1 the greatest single cross of all time regarding results.

i watched people puke, i smoked it for five years myself ($500) per oz in 91'-95' ... and offspring continued this trend and even soma's g13 / haze produced gold afterword as many, many, many greats built off original nl 5 / haze .... proof is in the seeds.

Guest · Feb 22, 2018

Hey Kankakee,I think it is just a matter of terminology,s1 seeds were not available for public before Dutch Passion started offering them in the 90's(at least that is what I always thought and I would love to be corrected if that is not the case).Heck,Sam himself confirms this,with all due respect I think you are derailing a very interesting thread .

Anyway,if you still want to continue ,I think your questions are better suited here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=82182

Hi Mobi,what is your opinion about male /female inherited characteristics in breeding?

Kankakee · Feb 22, 2018

whos talking about s1 seeds now. ? u. but my last post in this thread about fem / s1's. anyone who says they do not produce more hermaphroditism is lying and that it does not pass onto further generations is lying. ( destroying the future lines like the europeans have done w/ hemp as euro industrial ass EIHA clearly stated in 1998 when worried about bottlenecked inbreed degraded genetics )

i just came back into this thread. people can't admit Dioecious is the norm and european hemp breeders stop interference from this yet when they stop it reverts back towards dioecious state......

after being challenged in the hemp seed thread he went back and changed all his post about finola...just like this thread. so ya i really question the omnipotence.

Guest · Feb 22, 2018

Aren't you claiming Sam "selfed" (i.e.produced s1 seeds from)the haze?Sam says by selfing he means inbreeding.What do you mean by selfing?Excuse me if I got it all wrong.

Kankakee · Feb 22, 2018

hey mobi you wanna discuss gamma or volatility in option trading. or isotope or cesium or strontium 90 continuum or maybe post some send me some pictures of your perfect grows within the realm of canna ..... then we can decide who's smart or not. you cant grow perfect plants without knowledge or trade options or futures 2 boot'

Sam_Skunkman · Feb 22, 2018

Kankakee said:
then why didn't he state its naturally Dioecious from day one ? instead of avoiding the facts will attack these one at a time per post. it clearly is the norm in european hemp that he claims that he helped foster. in his very first post he edited now he stated it was not the norm ...

I have always stated that Cannabis is naturally Dioecious, I have for decades, you think that when I stated that Dioecious plants are not the norm (meaning all flowering plants) that I was referring to Cannabis, I was not, I did not change the statement I clarified it for you to make it easier to understand, I have told you this over and over but you do not want to hear what I say as you think you know better then me what I meant. I clearly stated that "Plant genetics like Cannabis can be confusing as Cannabis is a dioecious obligate outcrosser and is a bit special" in my first post before I made any changes, again I said "as Cannabis is a dioecious obligate outcrosser" pretty clear to me.
I am tired of your ignorance and stubbornness and really do not want to waste more time with you, you do not care what I meant you only care to believe what you think I meant. Even after I corrected you several times. Keep it up and I will just remove all your posts in this thread, I am the Moderator. And your posts are just disruptive and add nothing to the thread, as you just go on and on about the same petty crap.
You can read the catalog above in post #81 and see what I mean by "selfed" I explained it in the catalog. It had nothing to do with selfing a single plant.
-SamS

Kankakee · Feb 22, 2018

syd. i was just answering back when other gathered pace with this topic.

if he meant inbreeding so be it. but he was not breeding with pure haze ( imo ) as stated above and seed results trump all the talk from me, u, sam or nevil ....

Kankakee · Feb 22, 2018

Kankakee · Feb 22, 2018

ill move along. it does not matter really.... let the personal attacks continue or snide comments about water ..... ill stand by every post good or bad as i never edit for change only add on more opinions.

peace and good day one and all. people will soon be worrying about personal balance sheet debt / global interest rates spiking then aftermath and war as these debates become mute

mobi50 · Feb 22, 2018

Kankakee said:
hey mobi you wanna discuss gamma or volatility in option trading. or isotope or cesium or strontium 90 continuum or maybe post some send me some pictures of your perfect grows within the realm of canna ..... then we can decide who's smart or not. you cant grow perfect plants without knowledge or trade options or futures 2 boot'

No kankakee, I do not want to engage in sach logomachy; the reason why is been posted.

Spaventa · Feb 22, 2018

In humans at least, the only genetic code that is reproduced with complete accuracy in offspring, is the in the male which is why you can blood test living males and connect them to ancient ancestors with certainty. Researchers found Mongolians who carry the exact code of Genghis Khan. No females alive today have the exact genetic code of any ancestors - very, very similar but not identical as in the male genetic code. Its because of the Y chromosome - thats our memory stick apparently.

The fact that Neville/Sams/Haze bros Haze A and C were males, says a lot

djonkoman · Feb 22, 2018

anyone who says they do not produce more hermaphroditism is lying and that it does not pass onto further generations is lying.

do you have any sources for this?

I see this mentioned again and again on weedforums, but I know no science to support it.

if there's a trait(in this case hermaphroditism), there must be one or multiple genes behind it. genes don't appear out of nowhere, they must be inherited.
making fem seeds is just playing with hormones. the only thing it does is change a mother into a father. it doesn't do anything to the genes.
so a plant that contains no genes supporting hermaphoroditism, should not be able to become hermi simply trough feminised seeds.
the only mechanism I can think of how such a thing could occur, is if hermaphroditism in cannabis is/can be a result of inbreeding depression(in which case I would think it's something like multiple recessive genes that decrease ethylene production, or decrease sensitivity to ethylene of the receptor, but that's just speculating), but in that case it would only show in selfed fems, not fem seeds made from 2 unrelated mothers(assuming both mothers are not known for hermaphroditism).

@spaventa: there's also the mitochondrial dna, which inherits in the female line, and in plants chloroplasts too.
the y-chromosome does not really have the function of a 'memory stick'(well, sort of it has, but just like all other genes are), it's just an effect of how chromosomes pair together. usually you get crossing over, but since the x and y chromosome are so different from eachother, they don't crossover when paired together, and a male always has just one of both.

Sam_Skunkman · Feb 22, 2018

Spaventa said:
In humans at least, the only genetic code that is reproduced with complete accuracy in offspring, is the in the male which is why you can blood test living males and connect them to ancient ancestors with certainty. Researchers found Mongolians who carry the exact code of Genghis Khan. No females alive today have the exact genetic code of any ancestors - very, very similar but not identical as in the male genetic code. Its because of the Y chromosome - thats our memory stick apparently.

The fact that Neville/Sams/Haze bros Haze A and C were males, says a lot

You can blood test females just as easy and confirm parents, or offspring as well as sisters or brothers it is done daily. Also females have mitochondria which can also be used.

http://www.rootsforreal.com/dna_en.php

Shortly after the process of fertilization, the sperms' mitochondria die away, and the embryo is only left with maternal mitochondria. As such, we share the same mtDNA as our brothers and sisters, but not our fathers.

MtDNA is also passed down nearly unchanged from generation to generation. So we share the same mtDNA-type as our mother, our maternal grandmother, our maternal great-grandmother and so on. In fact the exact same mtDNA code will track our direct genetic line back until the point at which a natural mutation in the mtDNA code occurred - on average about every 20,000 years.

-SamS

Sam_Skunkman · Feb 22, 2018

djonkoman said:
do you have any sources for this?

I see this mentioned again and again on weedforums, but I know no science to support it.

if there's a trait(in this case hermaphroditism), there must be one or multiple genes behind it. genes don't appear out of nowhere, they must be inherited.
making fem seeds is just playing with hormones. the only thing it does is change a mother into a father. it doesn't do anything to the genes.
so a plant that contains no genes supporting hermaphoroditism, should not be able to become hermi simply trough feminised seeds.
the only mechanism I can think of how such a thing could occur, is if hermaphroditism in cannabis is/can be a result of inbreeding depression(in which case I would think it's something like multiple recessive genes that decrease ethylene production, or decrease sensitivity to ethylene of the receptor, but that's just speculating), but in that case it would only show in selfed fems, not fem seeds made from 2 unrelated mothers(assuming both mothers are not known for hermaphroditism).

As far as I know you are correct. With STS you change sexual expresson temporarily you do not change the genes.
-SamS

Spaventa · Feb 22, 2018

Sam_Skunkman said:
You can blood test females just as easy and confirm parents, or offspring as well as sisters or brothers it is done daily. Also females have mitochondria which can also be used.

https://www.rootsforreal.com/dna_en.php

Shortly after the process of fertilization, the sperms' mitochondria die away, and the embryo is only left with maternal mitochondria. As such, we share the same mtDNA as our brothers and sisters, but not our fathers.

MtDNA is also passed down nearly unchanged from generation to generation. So we share the same mtDNA-type as our mother, our maternal grandmother, our maternal great-grandmother and so on. In fact the exact same mtDNA code will track our direct genetic line back until the point at which a natural mutation in the mtDNA code occurred - on average about every 20,000 years.

-SamS

Nothing you said is news to me or contradicts what I said.

You can NOT identify a living female descendant of Cleopatra by DNA because females don't pass on IDENTICAL genetic material.

You CAN identify living male descendants of Julius Caesar POSITIVELY by DNA because males DO pass on identical genetic material.

As I said, it is close but not identical which is why I didn't say that females can't identify CLOSE relations. I didn't spell that out as I thought it was obvious.

Does a Male or Female Pass On More genetics to Their Offspring?

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