Have troubles with clones and coco

Dropped Cat · Feb 25, 2018

I root cuttings in plain water since I had lousy strike rate
with rooting in coco.

Transplant to coco mix in 16oz cups, micro style.

165W PL-L in flower, 72W PL-L in veg.

I'm no pro, but I have better all around growth using 1:4
old to new.

I boil my coco between use too, much to learn. I'm thinking of
going new 100% all the time, but I'll need to be
convinced to ditch re use all together.

Good thread.

maimunji · Feb 27, 2018

Mikell said:
Yeah ya got me. All I can think is to replace the epsom with more base or try reducing tap water to 0.1EC.

Haven't used H&G in a few years but got a lot more purple leaf stems when I did.

Are you always using recycled coco for the final transplant? What I am getting at is some people have issue with over recycling. They tend to graduate to mixing in new coir around 70/30 old/new. Never tried it myself for very long.

Why you advice me to drop epsom? Do you think I have enough magnesium? To me plants looks like lack magnesium but i can't noticed improving from upped epsom.

maimunji · Feb 27, 2018

Ok this is what I do. I transplant in to 1 gallon fresh coco not reused. Let them dry and feed with 1.6 e.c. Canna coco a&b at 3ml/per litter (12 ml/per gallon) once. Next feed I goes back to 1.4 ec and switch back to h&g base. They look greener and perk will see what happening.

maimunji · Feb 27, 2018

Currently feeding seeds with 1.3 ec including 0.2 ec epsom. They also looks like lack something or may I over thinking.

Mikell · Feb 27, 2018

New growth can look pale, especially at lights on.

I suggested removing the epsom to increase the amount of base nutrient.

Dropped Cat · Feb 28, 2018

Mikell said:
New growth can look pale, especially at lights on.

I suggested removing the epsom to increase the amount of base nutrient.

For seedlings or just in general.

beta · Feb 28, 2018

maimunji said:
Ok this is what I do. I transplant in to 1 gallon fresh coco not reused. Let them dry and feed with 1.6 e.c. Canna coco a&b at 3ml/per litter (12 ml/per gallon) once. Next feed I goes back to 1.4 ec and switch back to h&g base. They look greener and perk will see what happening.

I'm gonna say it again - Stop letting your plants dry out and your problems will go away. Coco should -always always always- be wet, if you see dry coco (even on the surface) you aren't watering nearly frequently enough.

Mikell · Feb 28, 2018

Dropped Cat said:
For seedlings or just in general.

Work with clones primarily. I've only noticed it twice in the past few monthes on the healthier plants after someone raised the point. Pretty rare I am around at flips or that think to look for subtle changes, being a hamfisted meathead.

Trich_Tyson · Feb 28, 2018

I get lockout when i transplant into coco.. especially if i make a big jump i.e. solo to final containers.
Coco should be moist at all times, and can't be overwatered - WHEN ESTABLISHED.

It's a whole different story in the beginning. Overwatering is easy in unestablished coco pots, and will cause lockout.. It will look like Mg and/or K def. sometimes Ca, sometimes N.

Honestly your pics look basically fine to me, so i can't say for sure. But i will tell you it happens to me every time.

It's a matter of dialing in the right level of moisture at transplant.

Once your plants are established, never let it dry out (as beta said) to avoid salt crystallization and build up. The nice thing about coco tho, is that if you do build up and lockout, it's pretty easy to flush and reset.

beta · Feb 28, 2018

Trich_Tyson said:
I get lockout when i transplant into coco.. especially if i make a big jump i.e. solo to final containers.
Coco should be moist at all times, and can't be overwatered - WHEN ESTABLISHED.

It's a whole different story in the beginning. Overwatering is easy in unestablished coco pots, and will cause lockout.. It will look like Mg and/or K def. sometimes Ca, sometimes N.

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I'd wager a bet that the reason you see 'lockout' when you transplant from small to big containers is because you aren't watering for a long time after the initial transplant.

Coco naturally holds the proper air to water ratio. Just like pure hydro roots can be submerged in pure nutrient solution 100% of the time, you could leave your irrigation system on a freshly transplanted clone 100% of the time and it'd be just fine.

A weak argument can be made that roots grow a little bit slower if they're constantly kept wet (the 'lazy root' theory) but in my experience if it's true the effect is subtle and almost always WAY overstated.

The bare minimum I ever water any plant is twice per day - Even fresh transplants going from a small to a large pot. If you're not watering coco at *least* twice per day you aren't doing it right, at least imo. Whenever I stop watering at least twice per day, I start seeing problems.

Trich_Tyson · Feb 28, 2018

I wish it worked that way for me. This is just my experience.
And I am totally understanding of the idea that there is more than one way to skin this cat of ours. and what works for one cat might not work for another

Absolem · Feb 28, 2018

Hey Maimunji

I think your plants look good. Look at the leaves under the tops. They are full green. The leaves at the top are immature and still growing that's why they are a bit pale.

IMO most of the problems from coco come from transplanting wrong. Coco coir has a really good air porosity. However if coco coir gets to compacted problems will result. When coir comes out of the bag it's light and fluffy. This is how it should go into the new pot. Then when your water it will compact and bring the coco coir to the right bulk density for maximum air porosity. Don't tamp the coco coir down or shake the potting container to make it "settle".

IMO the coco bricks can be a bit tricky. When hydrating them the coco becomes fully saturated and transplanting into coco that is fully saturated will compact even more and starve the roots of oxygen. When I used the coco bricks I would hydrate then wait until the coco was at about the same moisture content as bag coco before transplanting.

Cheers

Trich_Tyson · Feb 28, 2018

Absolem said:
Hey Maimunji

I think your plants look good. Look at the leaves under the tops. They are full green. The leaves at the top are immature and still growing that's why they are a bit pale.

IMO most of the problems from coco come from transplanting wrong. Coco coir has a really good air porosity. However if coco coir gets to compacted problems will result. When coir comes out of the bag it's light and fluffy. This is how it should go into the new pot. Then when your water it will compact and bring the coco coir to the right bulk density for maximum air porosity. Don't tamp the coco coir down or shake the potting container to make it "settle".

IMO the coco bricks can be a bit tricky. When hydrating them the coco becomes fully saturated and transplanting into coco that is fully saturated will compact even more and starve the roots of oxygen. When I used the coco bricks I would hydrate then wait until the coco was at about the same moisture content as bag coco before transplanting.

Cheers

I share the sentiment. I potted up about 40 plants yesterday.. and nailed it but it took work.
I flushed my coco brick (canna - they say you don't have to, but i did)
recharged it, then squeezed as much moisture out as i could, then refluffed it, and potted. There was still enough moisture so i didn't need to water stuff in. Today, they are dry enough (still moist) to feed.

chefsean · Feb 28, 2018

I would run cl mg at a full dose all the time it cant hurt . Coco absorbs a large amount of calcium and releases it slowly. I ran the h&g for a very long time with r.o. water and 5 ml of calmg. Maybe bump up the feede slowly to see what happens.

maimunji · Mar 2, 2018

beta said:
I'm gonna say it again - Stop letting your plants dry out and your problems will go away. Coco should -always always always- be wet, if you see dry coco (even on the surface) you aren't watering nearly frequently enough.

I don't want to ignore your advice and will put clone under mh and will start watering every day to see is this is my issues.

maimunji · Mar 2, 2018

Mikell said:
New growth can look pale, especially at lights on.

I suggested removing the epsom to increase the amount of base nutrient.

I will drop epsom and will up basic nutes. I can't see there is nothing changes even after dupm epsom to 100 ppm.

maimunji · Mar 2, 2018

Absolem said:
Hey Maimunji

I think your plants look good. Look at the leaves under the tops. They are full green. The leaves at the top are immature and still growing that's why they are a bit pale.

IMO most of the problems from coco come from transplanting wrong. Coco coir has a really good air porosity. However if coco coir gets to compacted problems will result. When coir comes out of the bag it's light and fluffy. This is how it should go into the new pot. Then when your water it will compact and bring the coco coir to the right bulk density for maximum air porosity. Don't tamp the coco coir down or shake the potting container to make it "settle".

IMO the coco bricks can be a bit tricky. When hydrating them the coco becomes fully saturated and transplanting into coco that is fully saturated will compact even more and starve the roots of oxygen. When I used the coco bricks I would hydrate then wait until the coco was at about the same moisture content as bag coco before transplanting.

Cheers

Hi Absolem many thanks. I lear this hard way when I switch from soil to coco.

maimunji · Mar 2, 2018

Trich_Tyson said:
I share the sentiment. I potted up about 40 plants yesterday.. and nailed it but it took work.
I flushed my coco brick (canna - they say you don't have to, but i did)
recharged it, then squeezed as much moisture out as i could, then refluffed it, and potted. There was still enough moisture so i didn't need to water stuff in. Today, they are dry enough (still moist) to feed.

This is exactly what I do when transplant exept I use bagged canna coco and dont flush jush water squizze moisture refluff and transplant.

maimunji · Mar 2, 2018

chefsean said:
I would run cl mg at a full dose all the time it cant hurt . Coco absorbs a large amount of calcium and releases it slowly. I ran the h&g for a very long time with r.o. water and 5 ml of calmg. Maybe bump up the feede slowly to see what happens.

I never have isuues with cal mag using h&g cocos. Full dose cal mag is 2 ml per litter 320 ppm 4-0-0. Loaded with nitrogen. Im really afraid from lockout this way.
I use tap water 150 ppm with full dose cal mag will be 450 ppm start water. How much a&b do you use per litter?

maimunji · Mar 2, 2018

Im not talk about new growth. I can see plants doesn't grow like I want. I talk more about eatablish leaves. Can someone see how purple is central leaves vein?
And how light green is veins between each blade just like magnesium def. Can you?

Have troubles with clones and coco

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