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CBD in bulk

ronbo51

Member
Veteran
We have found a company that sells bulk CBD oil. It tests lower than .3 THC so it is legal everywhere if I understand the laws correctly. We have a lawyer pretty connected and he is doing some leg work for us. We are in a very unfriendly state but we have 12 retail locations and want to sell CBD products. The name of the company we are dealing with is CBDGum. They are in Cali. The oil is imported. Obviously we need some more info but I just found out about this yesterday and of course we are very excited about carrying these products. The price was $12K/ liter and I am not sure about the concentration but I believe its 20%.

Does anyone here have any experience selling CBD products retail in an unfriendly state? Anyone know anything about this company? Where would this oil be sourced from? Thanks to the community for your help.
 

snake11

Member
If it's only 20% CBD and .3% THC what is the other 79.7%?? It is probably from China. Who knows what kind of extraction process they are using. At the bare least I would get it tested for residuals before giving it to any customers. I would recommend further cleaning and refinement to make sure it is suitable if you do get it.
 

ronbo51

Member
Veteran
Actually, most of the cbd comes from Europe, is extracted using co2 , is ISO certified, grown organically, comes with testing data. None of the links given above show any problems. The literature supplied online mentions the strains they use. Also mentions that they use flowers, not hemp. Unless everyone is straight up lying it seems pretty legit to me. Of course anything from China throws up the red flags. This oil is not China sourced. Elixinol is the product. Europe has tougher ag standards than the US. By the way, in a few years this is the way THC will be sold also, In liter bottles.
 

G.O. Joe

Active member
Veteran
Elixinol is the product. Europe has tougher ag standards than the US.

There's a good chance they are straight up lying - the CBD industry is full of liars. What is the situation in Europe? It's totally legal to grow and extract and sell to the US?

http://www.projectcbd.org/news/hemp...n-medical-marijuana-inc-hempmeds-and-kannaway

The lying starts with the legal in all 50 states part - that's just as much key to profits as other lies. When they say it's already legal, while some states debate legislation to actually make it legal, there's no reason to believe anything else they say. The FDA just this week put a note on their site showing that companies are selling CBD products with no cannabinoids.

Which is it, CBD gum, or Elixinol? Elixinol is from D&G Health in NY. Do they have a permit to import controlled substances?

Retailing CBD products in the wrong state is the same as asking some arm of government to seize your business, drug dealer. Your attorney should not need more than a minute to google the section of your state law that defines marijuana. If it's the same as federal law and CBD hasn't been exempted lately, selling marijuana oil would make you a drug dealer. In the states that have exempted CBD, is there some framework in the law or is it a free-for-all?
 

ECtraveler

Active member
Veteran
By the way, in a few years this is the way THC will be sold also, In liter bottles.

Some of it will yes but the majority of THC products will always be consumed in combustible form. For some the social aspects of partaking are as important as the actual effects.
 

Pastelero

Active member
Actually, most of the cbd comes from Europe, is extracted using co2 , is ISO certified, grown organically, comes with testing data. None of the links given above show any problems. The literature supplied online mentions the strains they use. Also mentions that they use flowers, not hemp. Unless everyone is straight up lying it seems pretty legit to me. Of course anything from China throws up the red flags. This oil is not China sourced. Elixinol is the product. Europe has tougher ag standards than the US. By the way, in a few years this is the way THC will be sold also, In liter bottles.


from a european POV, this is right!
A lot of hemp farms are organic certified in the EU and extraction takes place in GMP/GRAS etc. certified facilities on a legal basis.

The problem as G.O. Joe described, is import and distribution in the US, this is actually illegal!

But, some companies are importing that stuff bulkwise now for years and nobody seems to care! The unwritten law seems to be, no health claims and 0,2% THC EU origin are okay.

But as we all know, that can change in a minute and the whole thing callapses.
 

VonBudí

ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ
Veteran
can some one post a link to a high cbd eu product, tried and tested. Hemp cbd products seems to be a magnet for sack of shit scammers.

+ one of these co2 extracts companys too.
 
Last edited:

ronbo51

Member
Veteran
They use the same customs procedure as we do for our other business. He gets customs clearance to import. They know what they are doing, it appears. CBD Gum carries the Elixinol line as well as these other products. Because the Elixinol line claims the c02 cold extraction method, organically grown, not just hemp, made in Europe according to guidelines I feel pretty confident using their products. We have found over 10 stores now selling CBD oil in SC. Advertising and everything, plus credit card handling, which as anyone in the biz knows is hard to get a POS system for cannabis as well as other sketchy businesses. SC passed a compassionate care act for CBD oil back last year but the literature on it made it sound like it was impossible to meet the standards, and now all these stores are selling CBD in SC. I'm excited. Thanks by the way so far for everyone's thoughts.
 

nattynattygurrl

Natalie J. Puffington
Veteran
posted by: ronbo51
We have found over 10 stores now selling CBD oil in SC. Advertising and everything, plus credit card handling, which as anyone in the biz knows is hard to get a POS system for cannabis as well as other sketchy businesses. SC passed a compassionate care act for CBD oil back last year but the literature on it made it sound like it was impossible to meet the standards, and now all these stores are selling CBD in SC. I'm excited. Thanks by the way so far for everyone's thoughts.


Wow!! That is great news!
 

ronbo51

Member
Veteran
Hey Nattygirl, I saw a link you posted for CBDGum on another thread after I started this one. Did you ever buy their products? We got a shipment yesterday and passed around a bunch of stuff to the warehouse gang at work. Everyone loved it. Overwhelmingly positive. Everyone said they were relaxed, focused. Very impressive. Now we wait for legal to give us the yea or nay. Hopeful and excited.
 

Pastelero

Active member
Hemp cbd products seems to be a magnet for sack of shit scammers.

This seems still to be a big problem in the US.

FDA said:
In late February 2015, FDA issued several warning letters to firms that market unapproved drugs for the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of diseases. Some of these firms claim that their products contain cannabidiol (CBD). FDA has tested those products and, in some of them, did not detect any CBD. It is important to note that these products are not approved by FDA for the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of any disease, and often they do not even contain the ingredients found on the label. Consumers should beware purchasing and using any such products.

http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/publichealthfocus/ucm435591.htm

You can find the the links to the Warning Letters and the test results for the CBD-related products in the link!
 

ronbo51

Member
Veteran
So, the last week or so has been exciting. The lawyers came back with some interesting thoughts. First there are zero cases in SC regarding CBD. CBD that contains less than .3% THC is not controlled. Since marijuana is tested using THC content, CBD containing less than the legal limit appears to be legal. There have been various laws passed in the last few years allowing hemp products to be legally sold. CBD falls under hemp products.
The FDA requires that like all diet supplements, CBD products cannot have health claims attached to them. Other than that it is pretty much the wild west as far as selling. The lawyer did mention the very real possibility that instead of criminal charges civil asset forfeiture could be attempted. He phrased it in terms of persecution vs prosecution. The lawyer contacted the head magistrate in our county to ask if she had anything regarding CBD on her radar. She said no, for what that's worth.

The company we are dealing with is in the US and sells CBD in crystal form as 99.9% pure. They have registered patents on their processes. They have the import licenses, TSA security stamps, FDA and DEA memos. We were given the MSDS sheets, the analysis from Oregon Analytics. The head of the company sat down with us for 3 hours answering questions, and toured our facility. Our in house chemist ran tests on samples, and sent out our samples to be independently tested. We are doing our due diligence.

We are going forward with more product development with the samples we purchased. Right now we intend to do vape liquid for ecigs, which we already make in quantity using nicotine. In addition we will do tincture. We have distributed our samples throughout the company and the response is the same for everyone who tries it: "We want more"
 

G.O. Joe

Active member
Veteran
It would seem that what you have in mind is not what SC had in mind, and who told them that CBD comes from seeds and stalks?

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess120_2013-2014/bills/1035.htm

SECTION 44-53-110. Definitions.

(27)(a) "Marijuana" means:

(i) all species or variety of the marijuana plant and all parts thereof whether growing or not;

(ii) the seeds of the marijuana plant;

(iii) the resin extracted from any part of the marijuana plant; or

(iv) every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of the marijuana plant, marijuana seeds, or marijuana resin.

(b) "Marijuana" does not mean:

(i) the mature stalks of the marijuana plant or fibers produced from these stalks;

(ii) oil or cake made from the seeds of the marijuana plant, including cannabidiol derived from the seeds of the marijuana plant;

(iii) any other compound, manufacture, salt, derivatives, mixture, or preparation of the mature stalks (except the resin extracted therefrom), including cannabidiol derived from mature stalks;

(iv) the sterilized seed of the marijuana plant which is incapable of germination;

(v) for persons participating in a clinical trial or in an expanded access program related to administering cannabidiol for the treatment of severe forms of epilepsy pursuant to Article 18, Chapter 53, Title 44, a drug or substance approved for the use of those participants by the federal Food and Drug Administration; or

(vi) for persons, or the persons' parents, legal guardians, or other caretakers, who have received a written certification from a physician licensed in this State that the person has been diagnosed by a physician as having Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome, Dravet Syndrome, also known as "severe myoclonic epilepsy of infancy", or any other severe form of epilepsy that is not adequately treated by traditional medical therapies, the substance cannabidiol, a nonpsychoactive cannabinoid, or any compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of any plant of the genus cannabis that contains nine-tenths of one percent or less of tetrahydrocannabinol and more than fifteen percent of cannabidiol.

(c) For purposes of this item, written certification means a document dated and signed by a physician stating that the patient has been diagnosed with Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome, Dravet Syndrome, also known as "severe myoclonic epilepsy of infancy", or any other severe form of epilepsy that is not adequately treated by traditional medical therapies and the physician's conclusion that the patient might benefit from the medical use of cannabidiol.

(d) A physician is not subject to detrimental action, including arrest, prosecution, penalty, denial of a right or privilege, civil penalty, or disciplinary action by a professional licensing board for providing written certification for the medical use of cannabidiol to a patient in accordance with this section.

SECTION 44-53-1810. Definitions.

As used in this article:

(1) "Academic medical center" means a research hospital that operates a medical residency program for physicians and conducts research that involves human subjects, and other hospital research programs conducting research as a subrecipient with the academic medical center as the prime awardee.

(2) "Approved source" means a provider approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration which produces cannabidiol that:

(a) has been manufactured and tested in a facility approved or certified by the United States Food and Drug Administration or similar national regulatory agency in another country which has been approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration; and

(b) has been tested in animals to demonstrate preliminary effectiveness and to ensure that it is safe to administer to humans.

(3) "Cannabidiol" means a finished preparation containing, of its total cannabinoid content, at least 98 percent cannabidiol and not more than 0.90 percent tetrahydrocannabinol by volume that has been extracted from marijuana or synthesized in a laboratory.

(4) "Designated caregiver" means a person who provides informal or formal care to a qualifying patient, with or without compensation, on a temporary or permanent or full-time or part-time basis and includes a relative, household member, day care personnel, and personnel of a public or private institution or facility.

(5) "Pharmacist" means an individual health care provider licensed by this State to engage in the practice of pharmacy.

(6) "Physician" means a doctor of medicine or doctor of osteopathic medicine licensed by the South Carolina Board of Medical Examiners.

(7) "Qualifying patient" means anyone who suffers from Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome, Dravet Syndrome, also known as severe myoclonic epilepsy of infancy, or any other form of refractory epilepsy that is not adequately treated by traditional medical therapies.

HISTORY: 2014 Act No. 221 (S.1035), Section 2, eff June 2, 2014.

SECTION 44-53-1820. FDA approved clinical trials to treat patients who have certain forms of epilepsy with cannabidiol; principal investigators; subinvestigators.

(A) A statewide investigational new drug application may be established in this State, if approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration to conduct expanded access clinical trials using cannabidiol on qualifying patients with severe forms of epilepsy.

(B) Any physician who is board certified and practicing in an academic medical center in this State and treating patients with severe forms of epilepsy may serve as the principal investigator for such clinical trials if such physician:

(1) applies to and is approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration as the principal investigator in a statewide investigational new drug application; and

(2) receives a license from the United States Drug Enforcement Administration.

(C) Such physician, acting as principal investigator, may include subinvestigators who are also board certified and who practice in an academic medical center in this State and treat patients with severe forms of epilepsy. Such subinvestigators shall comply with subsection (B)(2) of this section.

(D) The principal investigator and all subinvestigators shall adhere to the rules and regulations established by the relevant institutional review board for each participating academic medical center and by the United States Food and Drug Administration, the United States Drug Enforcement Administration, and the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

(E) Nothing in this article prohibits a physician licensed in South Carolina from applying for Investigational New Drug authorization from the United States Food and Drug Administration.

HISTORY: 2014 Act No. 221 (S.1035), Section 2, eff June 2, 2014.

SECTION 44-53-1830. Cannabidiol for use in clinical trials.

(A) Expanded access clinical trials conducted pursuant to a statewide investigational new drug application established pursuant to this chapter only shall utilize cannabidiol which is:

(1) from an approved source; and

(2) approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration to be used for treatment of a condition specified in an investigational new drug application.

(B) The principal investigator and any subinvestigator may receive cannabidiol directly from an approved source or authorized distributor for an approved source for use in the expanded access clinical trials.

HISTORY: 2014 Act No. 221 (S.1035), Section 2, eff June 2, 2014.

SECTION 44-53-1840. Immunity.

(A) A person acting in compliance with the provisions of this article must not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or any civil or administrative penalty, including a civil penalty or disciplinary action by a professional licensing board, or be denied any right or privilege, for the use, prescription, administration, possession, manufacture, or distribution of medical cannabis.

(B) The State must defend a state employee against a federal claim or suit that arises or by virtue of their good faith performance of official duties pursuant to this article.

HISTORY: 2014 Act No. 221 (S.1035), Section 2, eff June 2, 2014.
 

ronbo51

Member
Veteran
Hey Mr Joe,

Yes, it appears that South Carolina did not intend to legalize CBD oil derived from hemp, but that's what they did. What you have cited is of course the exact statute our esteemed legal beagle showed us. It's the definition of "not marijuana" that opens the door. Also the hemp laws that have been passed allowing all hemp products to be bought and sold in SC as well as the rest of the country which further seems to unbolt the gate and fling it open. All the clinical trial and doctors permission bullshit is outdated. You don't need the doctor anymore. You can order the stuff on Amazon. If it was illegal do you think Amazon or any other vendor could get their credit cards and pos systems approved? The CBD we are going with contains ZERO THC, not just less than .3%. It comes from hemp. Hemp products are legal.
 

G.O. Joe

Active member
Veteran
It comes from hemp. Hemp products are legal.

Define hemp and hemp law that relates to CBD and extracts of CBD buds, because a judge is going to need more than that - he's more likely to say that plain reading of statute upholds your conviction, since for one thing your CBD is neither seed nor stalk-derived, the articles that have always been the legal hemp products. The difference between legal and de facto legal is the police have not felt compelled to start a test case. If you do start selling, I wouldn't want the media finding out.
 

ronbo51

Member
Veteran
The CBD we are going with IS derived from hemp, not flowers. Eastern Europe, organic certified, not Harlequin or Charlotte's Web or some other high CBD strain of pot. It goes through 4 different extractions, in the end zero THC 99% pure CBD crystals. Ultimately, hemp oil is not a controlled substance, whether it has CBD in it or not. Since CBD is specifically mentioned in the "not marijuana" description and it contains no THC, which is the final test of legality, our legal team has high confidence in a positive outcome. I personally feel there is no doubt that CBD derived from hemp is legal in all states including South Carolina. That is why online sellers can legally sell CBD oil and still retain their banking and credit card privileges. Of course that may or may not have anything to do with how law enforcement will proceed, and believe me, we are very concerned. But there are over a dozen places we have found in our state already selling CBD products over the counter in brick and mortar stores. Also, we have discussed the media. Every time there is an ecig story nationally the press comes to our stores or our lab to get comments. We will develop guidelines for the employees on what they can and can't say to customers, the press, and eventually to any LEO's that come to us. We already have many police officers as customers so it shouldn't take long for it to fall one way or another. I appreciate your comments, and do not take any of this lightly.
 

wurlok

New member
wikipedia has changed cbd from schedule II to unscheduled in us

since lydias law it was put it into grew zone (you win in a court) now its free

smoking extracts from european hemp is not pleasant in pure form and two times less pleasant when cut down with glycerin or glycol for e-cigarettes. heated glycerin causes cancer.

european hemp is good for cookies or massage oil.
 

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