Compost Tea Extract

_tessarecting said:

I like this idea a lot but have no idea where to get any of the stuff listed in the recipe. I will poke around today see what I find.

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There is really no recipe necessary for the LCE itself. All you are doing is extracting spores and cysts and a few active microorganisms.

If you do the prefeeding then this is really more of a compost tea than LCE and you will likely have success using just black strap molasses. The more I learn, the simpler I trend.

One caution about fish hydrolysate which I've learned in the past couple of years is that the 3% phosphoric acid used to stabilize it is actually fairly high in terms of soluble phosphorus so bear this in mind.

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The Revolution said:

I was making an excellent act using just a 5g bucket and a cpl 30g aquarium pumps with air stones. I never mic 'd them but the proof was in the plants for sure. I used a mix of homemade compost, chicken manure, ewc, and alfalfa meal, and also molasses. That season with that ACT grew the healthiest plants ive ever seen. Had no issues with bugs that season, no bug natks, very minimal mold issues in just 2 plants. I had my doubts after reading some dialogue about microbial activity being minimal w this type of system, but like I said, I be never witnessed healthier plants in over 15 years. I got great results using it as a foliar. Huge over sized leaves that afforded some explosive growth in veg.. And some of the tastiest, aromatic flowers at harvest. I would like to tinker with a flowering tea to see what additional effects I can have on the final fruits.

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so it is true that we can do ACTea without using microscopes...at least for you, am totally new about it

i did it just one time and i would like to do more times during these weeks...so am wondering : it exist any "check list" to see if our ACT is ok without using microscope?

i read somewhere that one good point is the smell, if it is good, woody smelly it is ok...otherwise if the smell is like rotten or really bad then we dont have to use it

that's the only point i test it in order to check if the ACT was good or not

who knows something more about it ?
(except using microscope)

If I made 10 gallons with 2 cups should I add half a gallon to each 50gal res to water each plant 20x?

I'm going to try to do this today.

What 'composted forest product' did you end up getting?

"California humus" was recommended for that so I got a bag but forgot the insect frass

Thanks for posting this Leadsled. I use a similar technique and recipe. The premix is pretty exciting!

I was just finalizing my recipes on paper when I found this thread. I'm basically using the system that Ian Davidson of Biologic Systems recommends.

Ian and Biologic Systems are the producers of the California Humus, a static fungal compost.

HillMizer said:

Thanks for posting this Leadsled. I use a similar technique and recipe. The premix is pretty exciting!

I was just finalizing my recipes on paper when I found this thread. I'm basically using the system that Ian Davidson of Biologic Systems recommends.

Ian and Biologic Systems are the producers of the California Humus, a static fungal compost.

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Looking at biologic systems site they make camera and adapter recommendations practically copied from my webpage but they have no video of the microbes they are supposedly growing.
Just so y'all know there is no scientific merit to producing a fungal tea to support a plant which grows well in a fungal soil.

These are two different animals. And just so you know what fungal tea looks like;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56TrlXlTtZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGzjYyXDiGY

Microbeman said:

Looking at biologic systems site they make camera and adapter recommendations practically copied from my webpage but they have no video of the microbes they are supposedly growing.
Just so y'all know there is no scientific merit to producing a fungal tea to support a plant which grows well in a fungal soil.

These are two different animals. And just so you know what fungal tea looks like;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56TrlXlTtZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGzjYyXDiGY

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if no microscope how to be in the safe-zone ?
any advice ?

MicrobeMan, I'm a little confused. Are you saying fungal tea grows fungi that are irrelevant to the soil and plant? What about growing soil fungus and then extracting into tea and applying to soil.

Vaporizzando192 said:

if no microscope how to be in the safe-zone ?
any advice ?

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I'm not sure what you mean by the safe zone. As I have written numerous times it is practically impossible to make a harmful (bad) compost tea (CT) but it is easy to make a better CT.

A lot depends on the design of your brewer/bioreactor and the timing involved for microbial populations to develop in the desired ratios of diversity.

If you have purchased a commercially marketed bioreactor, the seller/manufacturer should have good instructions based on their research as to how long to run the machine and with what inputs to optimize the desired microbial populations.

The seller should be able to show you video or at very least very good photos of the microbes they have extracted and multiplied using their unit(s). If they do not have this, then don't buy.

If you are using a homemade method/design to make CT or LCE, then you can use your own discretion and senses to evaluate when to use it.

If making LCE there is no worry because you are just extracting mostly spores and multiplication of microbes takes place after application to the soil.

If you are pre-feeding as described in this thread, then just watch that the fungi developing is not predominantly fuzz growing up from the surface. What you want to see is thread-like mycelia running through the [v]compost.

This (photo by friend Jay)


Not this...



Also use your nose for both pre-feeding [v]compost and making CT. If you still smell the foodstock strongly (like molasses) you may need to run (brew) a little longer. If it reeks like vomit or putrid garbage it is likely anaerobic.

[however even anaerobic CT will not likely harm your plants, despite what some others state; BUT there is a higher chance of it containing a pathogen]

plantingplants said:

MicrobeMan, I'm a little confused. Are you saying fungal tea grows fungi that are irrelevant to the soil and plant? What about growing soil fungus and then extracting into tea and applying to soil.

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I'm not. What I am saying is that there has been a crossover confusion about plants which do well in a fungal soil, like a variety of trees, bushes, etc. and the fungi which is grown out in CT.

Although I am hesitant to speak 'factually' about fungi since the taxonomic studies taking place are rapidly bringing about new classifications (even reclassifying a protozoan group as zygomycota fungi !!!) I'll do my best. As always I am open to correction.

Most of the fungi in a fungal soil are basidiomycota and ascomycota.
Both of these can be ectomycorrhizal and form fruiting bodies, many of which are edible delicacies. Many or even most of these mushrooms are ectomycorrhizal and support the growth of various plants. Cannabis is not one of them (as so far known).

Additionally there are Glomeromycota or endomycorrhizal fungal species in a fungal soil and in non-fungal soils. These include the genera Glomus, Entrophospora, Gigaspora, Acaulospora, Scutellospora & Sclerocystis. These are the group of fungi which are mycorrhizal with cannabis and most vegetables and grasses. The symbiotic relationship formed with the roots are commonly referred to as Arbuscular mycorrhizas.

None of the above are typically grown out in CT, however there is occasion when a species of basidiomycota or ascomycota could be present or inoculated. The suitability of such inoculation is questionable in the case of cannabis growing because, as stated they are endomycorrhizal plants, not ectomycorrhizal.

Most of the fungi (& yeast;fungi) which is extracted and grown out in CT is fungi imperfecti, basically meaning that they do not form a fruiting body.

Indeed many of them could actually belong to the ascomycota family but never fully growing to fruition. These fungi are valuable as degraders of organic matter and provide aggregation to the soil, retaining moisture, air and nutrients. They also provide nutrients in the form of being 'eaten' by bacteria, archaea and other organisms.

I do have a hypothesis that some of these comprise a group of fungi known as dark septate endophytes (DSE) which I further hypothesize do provide nutrients via root systems to plants. However, this is in no way scientifically established (that I know of yet).

To state that one can influence the 'fungal soil requirements' of plants by making a fungal CT is therefore in my estimation not factually justified.

There could be some anecdotal evidence to support this. If so then that is what the user or customer should base their decision upon. It sounds to me like the material I read on the site is equating fungal soils with fungal CT and claiming this as accepted fact.

That is what I meant.
*****
For your second question, perhaps you could first clarify how one grows soil fungus then extracts this into a CT.

Hi mm when you use bran soaked in diluted molasses solution to 'wake up' less than fresh EWC, must the EWC also have some diluted molasses mixed in or is it enough to only soak the bran in the molasses solution. I am referring of course to your 'spill a secret' paragraph from your website.

The ol" e-coli scare.
Acid resistant e-coli produced in acidic conditions is not digestible. It makes us sick. Chances of producing it in ACT are almost none. I have produced some of the sloppiest ACT with complete disregard to expert advice. It has all been good. Some was better, some was OK. It was never bad
.

moses wellfleet said:

Hi mm when you use bran soaked in diluted molasses solution to 'wake up' less than fresh EWC, must the EWC also have some diluted molasses mixed in or is it enough to only soak the bran in the molasses solution. I am referring of course to your 'spill a secret' paragraph from your website.

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I actually do not soak the bran in diluted molasses, I spray the vermicompost/compost mixed with bran with the diluted molasses to a moistened consistency.

To spill a small secret, I’ve been pre-feeding or pre-activating [vermi]compost which is not so fresh by mixing in a small amount of wheat bran (livestock store or bulk foods department grocery store) and moistening with very diluted black strap molasses, loosely covered with cloth or paper towel 24 hours ahead of brew. (approximate ratios, wheat bran 1:30 [vermi]compost & BSM 1:300 water).

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This works on any [v]compost to pre-feed ahead of use in CT to potentially shorten the 'brew' time. It does not need to be old [v]compost. In my opinion it is a good practice for topdressing as well.

h.h. said:

The ol" e-coli scare.
Acid resistant e-coli produced in acidic conditions is not digestible. It makes us sick. Chances of producing it in ACT are almost none. I have produced some of the sloppiest ACT with complete disregard to expert advice. It has all been good. Some was better, some was OK. It was never bad
. [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=10738&pictureid=803986&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

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On the off chance that this is in reference to what I stated;

[however even anaerobic CT will not likely harm your plants, despite what some others state; BUT there is a higher chance of it containing a pathogen]

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e-coli was the furthest thing from my mind. I was not referencing human pathogens but plant ones like various fusarium fungal diseases. I've seen this pathogen spread rapidly through an entire crop by spraying inappropriately made CT. It is rare but it happens. Luckily the spores are easily recognized if using a scope;
https://www.google.ca/search?q=fusa...NAhVDzmMKHWTPBcUQsAQIGg#imgrc=FAcIbSzbKVsY6M:

They look like bananas.

It is always good to know you are using good quality [v]compost.

I do agree that the e-coli scare is ridiculous and the studies done by the USDA showing that e-coli can grow in CT had to use CT inoculated with e-coli to illustrate this. (boy-o-boy)

MM, can you recommend a good but moderately priced microscope? Been brewing for a while and want improve. Any advice is appreciated, thanks

There is a thread on it, a sticky I think. Go to organic soil sub forum!

Will do, thanks mw

moses wellfleet said:

There is a thread on it, a sticky I think. Go to organic soil sub forum!

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I just updated the thread.