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Water into Wine

andl

Member
----------------------------

you have acess to cbd in your country,? even in a pure form, GREAT!

but its not psychoactive....damnnnnn

what would you say when i tell you how to convert your cbd into delta-8-THC !

because of this post from wolf, lol back in 2009.....


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184612


i took a look into cannabinoid chemistry and i found a patent and i improved it,
at least i think so.

its about how you "cook" cbd into,only delta-8, or both delta-9 and 8 THC mixture,
depends on the catalyst which is used.


patent:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20040143126A1/en


if there where any organic chemistry knowledged people around, tell me what YOU think.

i will post the original patent here,
my improved version of it (you need chemistry equipment)
one pot reaction (easy, well, not so pure)

and then do the reaction by myself.

delta-8-thc is less potent like half strength or so (the literature says 1/3 or 1/2 strenght, i dont know)
but if you get pure CBD crystalls you may not care because it will be STRONG.

the yield should be great and purity also when doin' correctly.


i got a friend working in a lab and she may be helping and do HPLC analysis!!!
this has to be done seriously ! no chick chack maybe yes maybe no....

if you change catalyst you get delta-8-thc and delta-9-thc,
which is more psychoactive but the catalyst is impossible to be made by yourself,
so if you cant buy it then you cant do it. the delta-8-thc catalyst you can buy easy or DIY.

I'M NOT READY YET !

ok and now even more interesting.

wolf called it THC-Acetate (THC-O-Acetate)

well, in fact this is a cannabinoid-ester which is also easy made and should,
improve psychoactivity, a lot!

stronger or more psychedelic effects.

i think this is because it crosses the blood-brain barrier easier, when it's in acetate form.

just look for THC-O-Acetate (talkin' bout delta-9)

the first reciepe he posted is just improved when you take clean alcohol (water-free) and glacial acetic acid....
so even this should work to get the ester. this is important because of restrictment of acetic anhydride.

which make your weed much stronger and more psychoactive as far as written, in literature.

i didnt try any of these reactions, nor i took some ester's or other changed structures of cannabinoids so far, so
i cant tell you exactly.

please put this in your mind.


i never saw a delta-8-thc-ester (the acetate), or any information about it. (prooved)
it s possible to get other carbon acids (formic acid) to react and nobody knows
whats happening then, WTF

you could even add to the carbon acids other groups, but this would be really too much too discuss in here.

if you look into the structure of cbd you could even hang a group on the double bond... bla bla FACT:

GOUVERMENT WILL HATE ME, AND YOU TOO !

but well there were patents so... fuck'em

PS: this is not my achievment and its done way, way before i looked at something like that.

maybe wolf jumps in here i'm sure he could give prooved information about my suggestion and so,
but maybe he want to keep this information for himself ;)

be aware when you buy acetic anhydride (its impossible to cook heroine without it!)
you may get watched by authorities.


SECURITY IS A MUST.

i add the structure of the 3 most (former) important cannabinoids.

the diffrence between delta-8 and delta-9 THC is just the double bond in the ring.

i didnt do so much research but it may be possible ( if the delta 9 is more stable one) to convert even delta-8 THC into delta-9
 

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andl

Member
i got a lot of projects running and maybe someone can try this out it sounds promising and i will try to get the reaction done within next 3-4 weeks... i m not able before but it s of great interest. guys !


i got all chemicals and equiptment needed to try this but i need to get others things done before


thanks


PS: some of this is in german, sorrry


didnt wrote the one pot reaction yet will post soon
 

andl

Member
[FONT=&quot]Converting CBD into delta-8-THC[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](glassware needed)
[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Abstract:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All of the Equipment must be clean, and all of the solvents used should be as dry as possible, as the CBD as pure as possible.[/FONT]

Toluene is mixed with [FONT=&quot]p-toluene sulfonic acid;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]heat to soft boiling (90°C) azetrope temperature and meanwhile[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]mix your CBD with some more fresh Toluene.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Drop in slowly about 30minutes and heat 1 hour more, until all[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]water has collected in the Dean-Stark.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pour on Ice Cold water and let seperate the Phases.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Collect Toluene (upper) Layer and repeat (extract) one more time,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]wash with 5% NaHCO3; wash with DH2O again and, dry with MgSO4/NaSO4 filter and evaporate under vacuum.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Product is an oily substance which is over 80% Delta-8-THC.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Check over TLC plates with 20% ether 80% Petroleum Ether.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Glassware needed:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Round bottom flask 500ml , 2 headed (or bigger)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Reflux Condenser[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dripper[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dean Stark apparatus[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Dry Tube[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]Equiptment needed:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heating Plate/ Magnetic Stirrer,.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ph stripes[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gloves[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Eye Protection[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Safety Stuff[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]also acess to water and electricity of course[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Chemicals needed:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Toluene [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]p-toluene sulfonic acid[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CBD (98%+, better more)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NaHCO3/NaOH[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]MgSO4[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CaCl2[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]distilled water[/FONT]






[FONT=&quot]Preparing Chemicals[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Toluene is dried over CaCl2 and distilled discard first 5% and then collect.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Heat out CaCl2,MgSO4, grind and vaccum seal it with silicia gel[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]toluene sulfonic acid,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Impurities can be removed by recrystallization from concentrated hydrochloric [/FONT]acid[FONT=&quot] followed by azeotropic drying, with dry toluene.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Reaction:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Set up all equiptment with dean stark and reflux condenser, second head dripper (with CBD/Toluene mix) all topped with dry tube filled with wadding and dry CaCl2) fill in 150ml dry toluene into the flask, heat and put some toluene in the dean stark trap, wait till reflux well, remove any drops of water from DS if there s some, then add the tsulfonic acid into the flask, and slowly drip in from the dripper the cbd-toluene mix while refluxing gently at about 90°C for about 60-90 minutes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Quench reaction and pour over ice cold water let separate the phases collect the toluene, extract one more time, wash with 5 % NaHCO3, then with water, dry the toluene layer with MgSO4, filter and evaporate under vacuum to get the product.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]If done correctly you should get minimal 80% delta-8-THC[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]i found that as a patent, but changed little bit.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Of course if you've little knowledge about organic chemistry its possible to subsitiute some of the chemicals or use other lewis acids...[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]PS: You even can make the Delta-8-THC-OAcetate molecule which is an ester and i never heard someone tried this![/FONT]
 

andl

Member
well its not isomerization only takes place when delta8 is made to delta9,


as said before i dunno which one is the stable one but it s sure possible to convert delt8 to delta9 or opposite.




but the diffrence cbd to thc is the ring closing
 

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andl

Member
i may also be wrong but i need to investigate this and it would be nice if someone can comment on this.


i never made it to a chemistry school all i know is just out of interest but i did a lot of research and reactions for interest. and i m not bad into it
 

andl

Member
I'm no chemist so forgive my ignorance. But are you talking about Isomerization as written in Cannabis Alchemy by D. Gold to transform CBD into THC?
See page 21: https://calgarycmmc.com/E-books/E Books A-B-C/Cannabis Alchemy - D. Gold.pdf

I was always under the impression that this was debunked and so not true.
I think Sam The Skunkman said this into the past.




thanks for comin by !!! youre needed


well i saved the file its long, gonna read whole file tomorrow and then let you know what i think about, but the apparture he is using is just ridicolous when it get s into chemistry this is not kitchen chemistry, i m mean this serious.


like this sentence quoted out of the book: :rolleyes:



" Extracting with petroleum ether produces an oil that is twice as potent by weight as oil extracted with alcohol."
 

andl

Member
keep in mind there are 30 isomere of cbd, only 1 has been seen in nature all others not but i dont know what they sell as "CBD" a mixture, or one isomere, or maybe xxx dunno


got my point


lab analaysis is needed


everything else is not serious and not suitable
 

andl

Member
I'm no chemist so forgive my ignorance. But are you talking about Isomerization as written in Cannabis Alchemy by D. Gold to transform CBD into THC?
See page 21: https://calgarycmmc.com/E-books/E%20Books%20A-B-C/Cannabis%20Alchemy%20-%20D.%20Gold.pdf

I was always under the impression that this was debunked and so not true.
I think Sam The Skunkman said this into the past.




i m gonna try the reaction as said and let you know next few weeks but as i see this could work properly,


keep in mind that cannabis has a lot more than one cannabinoid and you JUST ONLY GET the delta8/9 thc so.... (or diffrent delta mixtures)
(and by products ?! analysis is the way)


not the same like smoke a good 'ol BUD
 
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andl

Member
A QUOTE from the patent at 0006 :


"Gaoni and Mechoulam (1966 , Tetrahedron 22: 1481-1488) teach methods of converting CBD to, among other compounds, Δ8-THC and Δ9-THC comprising boiling a solution of CBD (3.0 g) in absolute ethanol (100 ml) containing 0.05% HCl for 18 hours. The solution was then poured into water and extracted with ether. The ether solution was washed with water, dried (Na2SO4) and evaporated. Δ8-THC and Δ9-THC were eluted from the resulting oil and separated by chromatography. In another experiment, CBD (3.14 g) was dissolved in benzene (100 ml) containing 2 mg/ml p-toluenesulphonic acid and boiled for two hours. The reaction mixture was poured into water and the upper layer was separated, washed with 5% NaHCO3, then with water, dried and evaporated. Elution with pentane-ether (95:5) gave an oily material which was subsequently distilled. Percentage yield of Δ8-THC (Δ1(6)-THC) was given as 64% of the crude material in this paper. The crude oil product, which showed only one spot by thin layer chromatography, was purified by vacuum distillation."


this is all old chemistry !


i m suprised no1 ever tried this out


when it was postet in tetrahedron its very promising this will work!


PS: this reaction is even easier.


the second reaction is nearly the one i did suggested, but benzene isnt in use anymore you can substitute toluene for it
 

andl

Member
i read the chapters about isomerization and the Acetate, and i like the way he does the acetate,


because he just using the anhydride and the oil / better pure thc crystalls which makes the reaction water free whats important i suggest to dillute this in toluene because when you cook then you can get the water into the dean stark trap (and observe reaction) 1mol of thc to thc acetate should get you 1 mol of water which is 18g or 18ml 20°C removing water will drive reaction equilibrium to the side we want, when you remove the water out of the reaction.
so dont "overcook" (getting byproducts) and get sure all of the reaction is done.



some things, i disagree but all in all i think this will work.



the procedure of the cbd conversion is nearly the same i suggested with the sulfonic acid.
and i didnt even had the book before.



but he uses some acid also (Hcl, before H2SO4) and he gets delta 1 and delta 6 thc


but the procedure claimed in the patent is without acid and they claim to get delta 8 thc.....


only using the sulfonic catalyst,
(which is an lewis acid)

i dont understand why he uses the acids maybe to convert ringstructure?!



well i dont know i didnt do this reaction by myself but it all sounds promising.


thanks for sharing
 
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Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I'm no chemist so forgive my ignorance. But are you talking about Isomerization as written in Cannabis Alchemy by D. Gold to transform CBD into THC?
See page 21: https://calgarycmmc.com/E-books/E%20Books%20A-B-C/Cannabis%20Alchemy%20-%20D.%20Gold.pdf

I was always under the impression that this was debunked and so not true.
I think Sam The Skunkman said this into the past.

We ran D. Golds isomerizing process before we had a GC, so were measuring the results anecdotally.

In our situation, we were unimpressed but without empirical numbers. D Gold and I’ve since discussed both his isomerizing and acetate processes, so I have a better idea where he was coming from.

I hadn’t heard the process was debunked, only put in perspective chronologically vis a vis present circumstance. There has been a huge change in available starting material during that time.

Cannabis produces CBG as a starting material, which then turns to either CBD or THC, depending on the plant genetics. Land race cannabis is typically high in CBD, with a low resin content.

While there are strains that were selectively bred for high THC available in the 60’s and early 70’s, they were in short supply and expensive, with Mexican brick weed more readily available. Dave said that he was looking for a process that improved the low-grade material available at that time, which was high in CBD and low in THC.

We on the other hand were using one of the medical grades subsequently developed, which was high in THC and low in CBD, so weren’t able to discern enough gain to justify the process.

That wouldn’t be an issue starting with more readily available CBD material, and the other good news is that THC-O-A was certainly worthwhile!!

We didn’t build an inert gas chamber, and did our first run in an open field, using a process Pharmer Joe developed based on making aspirin from salicylic acid. His process worked, though the THC-O-A had a short shelf life, both literally and figuratively.

None of it was ever left over after from our cannabis alchemy classes, because we only made 10 gram samples, and the students sampled everything we made, but when we made samples our own for shits and giggles, within a few days it started to revert and took on an acrid bite.

Move forward another decade or so, and I’m currently setting up to rerun that experiment using both CBD and THCA crystals, instead of the concentrate we used in our last experiment. Pharmer Joe also believes he may have an answer to improving shelf life as well. More on that as it progresses.

Here is some data from my Sweet Mary’s Charms III article, which provides links to a more comprehensive review of multiple processes for producing the cannabinoids out of other readily available terpenes.

Not just the d9-THC and CBD that has the rapt attention of the populous, but some that are harder to acquire in large quantities and which have their own medicinal properties.

Here is a taste:

Sweet Mary’s Charms III

Another thank you to Dr. Justin Fischedick for the pile-o-papers and studies, in support of my quest to solve the CBN riddle, and the study done by Rak K. Rasdan titled "The Total Synthesis of Cannabinoids". Published by the Department of Chemistry, Carlton University’s “Total Synthesis of Natural Products. Available on line at:


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...78.ch2/summary


Also (thank you SkyHighler) at:


Link to a free download via Library Genius (click on 'GET')
https://libgen.io/scimag/ads.php?doi=10.1002/9780470129678.ch2&downloadname=


The Total Synthesis of Cannabinoids
by​
Rajk. Razdan,​
SISA Incorporated, Cambridge, Mass​
1. Introduction
2. Strategy in the Synthesis of (-)=d1-THC and their Metagolites
A. Synthesis of t1 and t6 THCs
B. Synthesis of cis-THCs
C. Metabolites of Tetrahydrocannabinols
D. Metabolites Functionalized in the Alicyclic Ring
E. Metabolites Functionalized in the Aromatic Ring
3. Synthesis of Otyher THCs and Related Cannabinoids
A. "Unnatural" THCs
B. Cannabidiols
C. Cammabinols
D. Cannabinoid Acids
E. Cannabigerol
F. Cannabichromene
G. Cannabicyclol
H. Novel Cannabinoids
4. New Cannabinoid Transformations
A. Photochemical
B. cis-+trans Conversion
C. Pyrolysis
5. Synthesis of THC Analogs
A. Carbocyclic Analogs
B Heterocyclic Analogs
6. Overall Structure-Activity Relationships in Cannabinoids
7. Therapeutic Indications and Potential of New Drugs from Cannabinoids
 
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andl

Member
@ wolf and Cvh

youre great i will have a look into that.

sharing is caring so really, thanks a lot!



will take some time
 
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