Short Path Distillation

Pastelero · Aug 21, 2015

Very interesting thread!

So with this Myers/ Pope MolecularStill it´s possible to get one specific cannbinoid out of your starting product?

Let´s say you start with CO2 Oil and want the THC or CBD, you can distill that specific cannabinoid out?

Are those MolecularStills already working with Cannabis? Does someone have more information on this, particular on the molecular destillation of cannabis and what would be the quote for, lets say the Pilot15?

Any help is appreciated!

Rickys bong · Aug 21, 2015

Pastelero said:
So with this Myers/ Pope MolecularStill it´s possible to get one specific cannbinoid out of your starting product?

Are those MolecularStills already working with Cannabis? Does someone have more information on this, particular on the molecular destillation of cannabis and what would be the quote for, lets say the Pilot15?

Any help is appreciated!

Interesting question, since the bp of CBD is considerably higher than D9-THC a wiped film or centrifugal setup might be able to separate them but the dynamics of distilling this stuff is complicated...

Several companies in the US are using molecular distillation but they are all trying to get high purity THC rather than separating the cannabinoids.

I know someone who had the Myers Lab3 quoted and it is around $40k so the Pilot 15 is probably going to approach $100k...

RB

snake11 · Aug 21, 2015

Rickys bong said:
Interesting question, since the bp of CBD is considerably higher than D9-THC a wiped film or centrifugal setup might be able to separate them but the dynamics of distilling this stuff is complicated...

Several companies in the US are using molecular distillation but they are all trying to get high purity THC rather than separating the cannabinoids.

I know someone who had the Myers Lab3 quoted and it is around $40k so the Pilot 15 is probably going to approach $100k...

RB

The commonly listed boiling points of thc and cbd do not appear to be correct. I think cbd and thc have too close of a boiling point to be seperated with this technology.

thegreenman91 · Aug 22, 2015

snake11 said:
The commonly listed boiling points of thc and cbd do not appear to be correct. I think cbd and thc have too close of a boiling point to be seperated with this technology.

I'm inclined to agree with you on that.

gholladay · Aug 23, 2015

snake11 said:
The commonly listed boiling points of thc and cbd do not appear to be correct. I think cbd and thc have too close of a boiling point to be seperated with this technology.

snake,

I've been informed of the same thing. Their boiling points are really close together because they share a similar molecular size and weight, so it's really difficult to get any type of separation of the two.

GH

Gray Wolf · Aug 24, 2015

snake11 said:
The commonly listed boiling points of thc and cbd do not appear to be correct. I think cbd and thc have too close of a boiling point to be seperated with this technology.

Pope and Meyers technical sales think they are too close to separate by this technology as well.

HG23 · Aug 25, 2015

What about the white, powdery THCa that's possibly made from alkaline bubble hash water? Isn't that separated?

Rickys bong · Aug 25, 2015

snake11 said:
The commonly listed boiling points of thc and cbd do not appear to be correct.

I agree on that as well, and certainly the boiling points under vacuum don't seem to drop much.
Does anyone know what methodology is used to derive the Merck index b.p. values?

GW: the chart of THC boiling points under vacuum you have on your website, do you know where that came from?

Thanks, RB

Gray Wolf · Aug 25, 2015

Rickys bong said:
I agree on that as well, and certainly the boiling points under vacuum don't seem to drop much.
Does anyone know what methodology is used to derive the Merck index b.p. values?

GW: the chart of THC boiling points under vacuum you have on your website, do you know where that came from?

Thanks, RB

Sadly so long ago that I don't remember. Most likely from a forum like this, back before the subject of plant terpenes was widely appreciated and discussed.

Certainly the THC BP has come under question and to add one more thought, technically boiling point is when the vapor pressure exceeds atmospheric pressure and bubbles form, but molecules are escaping the puddle at an increasing rate before that through sublimation.

With lower atmospheric pressure, sublimation rates increase, because there is no saturation of the atmosphere above the puddle.

I ran the vapor point vs boiling point under vacuum by our Biotech and Pharm D, who vowed to run it by their associates, but didn't easily find the answer, so we are trying to resolve it with experiments.

That is currently waiting on the use of the latest and greatest exhaust gas MS we've been promised the use of, and hopefully soon.

The SPR site is scheduled for upgrades to include our more recent research with an Inficon vacuum oven exhaust gas analyzer, Hiedolph rotary evaporator, and Aldrich Kugelrohr currently on loan to us.

We've obtained samples of the key terpenes from Extract Consultants to characterize under vacuum, and will share once we have that data.

We also have the tape of Dr Fischedick's ~4 hour lecture on the subject of cannabis terpenes, cleaned up and ready to post.

So much fun and so little time............

snake11 · Aug 25, 2015

HG23 said:
What about the white, powdery THCa that's possibly made from alkaline bubble hash water? Isn't that separated?

It is separated but using other methods.

SkyHighLer · Aug 25, 2015

Rickys bong said:
I agree on that as well, and certainly the boiling points under vacuum don't seem to drop much.
Does anyone know what methodology is used to derive the Merck index b.p. values?

GW: the chart of THC boiling points under vacuum you have on your website, do you know where that came from?

Thanks, RB

The table of the boiling points under vacuum for THC found at GW's SPR site,

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/vacuum-equipment-and-process-tips/

was derived using the boiling point of THC found at Wikipedia, 157C/315F, and calculated using this program,

http://trimen.pl/witek/calculators/wrzenie.html

using 66.49 kj/mol as the enthalpy of vaporization.

I'm not the 'source,' I only stepped in and corrected a flaw in someone else's work, and then made tables of what I thought we were interested in... here's my original presentation,

http://www.tokecity.com/forums/show...ssion-Thread&p=1294580&viewfull=1#post1294580

G.O. Joe · Aug 26, 2015

Rickys bong said:
Does anyone know what methodology is used to derive the Merck index b.p. values

The value is from the experimental chemistry literature, and it's not immediately obvious which of the Literature References: it was taken from. The values vary considerably because measurement under those conditions is imperfect.

Chromatography was almost certainly involved before distillation of a pure substance in everything that has been published.

Summoned like Dr. Bombay to yet another thread with this BS again. If the Merck Index and Mechoulam's quote weren't good enough in the other threads, nothing ever will be unless it comes from one of the Prophets. The cult of McPartland and Russo's entourage article tolerates no heresy, and any deviation including the boiling points is impossible - no matter how obvious it is that the pressures of measurement were omitted.

SkyHighLer · Aug 26, 2015

G.O. Joe said:
The value is from the experimental chemistry literature, and it's not immediately obvious which of the Literature References: it was taken from. The values vary considerably because measurement under those conditions is imperfect.

Chromatography was almost certainly involved before distillation of a pure substance in everything that has been published.

Summoned like Dr. Bombay to yet another thread with this BS again. If the Merck Index and Mechoulam's quote weren't good enough in the other threads, nothing ever will be unless it comes from one of the Prophets. The cult of McPartland and Russo's entourage article tolerates no heresy, and any deviation including the boiling points is impossible - no matter how obvious it is that the pressures of measurement were omitted.

Here's Bp data for THC from a previous edit of Wikipedia,

Boiling point 250–400 °C (482–752 °F) [7]

Here's the link to the old Wiki THC version I lifted that from,

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tetrahydrocannabinol&oldid=608790612

Breakover · Aug 27, 2015

So what's all this stuff I'm seein in Instagram of people making 'THC distillate' with a modified rotavap?

Fake or legit?

pharmco · Aug 27, 2015

Oregonized Concentrates and _mcdabbin recently posted and deleted a photo of the packaging for some sort of distillation apparatus, on Instagram. Sort of a tantalizing teaser.

Said something about Pope wiped (or did it say thin?) film vacuum apparatus.

Seems that's what the big boys are using.

Found this on the pope website as well: http://www.popeinc.com/still-products/wiped-film-stills-evaporators

snake11 · Aug 27, 2015

pharmco said:
Oregonized Concentrates and _mcdabbin recently posted and deleted a photo of the packaging for some sort of distillation apparatus, on Instagram. Sort of a tantalizing teaser.

Said something about Pope wiped (or did it say thin?) film vacuum apparatus.

Seems that's what the big boys are using.

Found this on the pope website as well: http://www.popeinc.com/still-products/wiped-film-stills-evaporators

Pope is one of the cheapest options to get in the distillation game which is one reason why many folks are going with them

Intoxicus5 · Aug 28, 2015

http://www.wilmad-labglass.com/ProductList.aspx?t=919

You can buy all the glassware you need on EBay.
In fact you can build the entire apparatus on EBay by purchasing the component glassware piece by piece.

The magnetic stirring hotplate will be your most expensive item. get egg shaped magnets if you're using round bottom flasks.

Jvckguar · Sep 2, 2015

Hey A6 Grower any way you could give more info on how you keep your condenser warm? Are you simply talking about about the part of the short path condenser that vapor is traveling upwards through, not downwards? I was under the impression that people ran a coolant through the condenser, actually somebody told me directly when making solvent free they use -50f saline solution run through the condenser. I am about to get started distilling as well, your comment raised some questions.

thegreenman91 · Sep 4, 2015

Jvckguar said:
Hey A6 Grower any way you could give more info on how you keep your condenser warm? Are you simply talking about about the part of the short path condenser that vapor is traveling upwards through, not downwards? I was under the impression that people ran a coolant through the condenser, actually somebody told me directly when making solvent free they use -50f saline solution run through the condenser. I am about to get started distilling as well, your comment raised some questions.

-50f solution would chill the oil so much that it clog the condenser I believe. Unless the path is so short that the vapor condenses in the receiving flask and not in the condenser itself.

Condensers that cold are good for distilling more volotile compounds.

PURnSimple · Sep 4, 2015

Daub Marley said:
Yeah, but taxes are $440. Not sure about shipping to your location. Probably another $100.

How would I go about picking one up for that price?

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