Clone tent design

fonzee · Nov 4, 2016

Good afternoon friends,

In the near future I want to create a clone tent with climate control.
So far I've been using plastic propagators with peat pellets (Jiffy brand) and then moved to rockwool cubes. Some runs were successful, some weren't.
Now I want to avoid the use of medium and I'm thinking either water cups for still water cloning or a few fancy store-bought aeroponic cloners. Ideally the water would be without additives except for pH adjustment. Also I wish to keep the cuts out of a propagator to allow much more venting so I was thinking of metal shelves in a 1x1x2m grow tent + white IKEA LED lights for lightning (maybe flouro?) at 20/4 light cycle.

Now for the stuff I haven't really figured out yet:
1. What are the ideal air temperatures and humidity levels for quick cloning?
2. What is the ideal water temperature for rooting?
3. How much air circulation is ideal for a 1x1x2m tent?

My thinking was air temp 28, RH around 80%, water temp around 26-27 and 2 clip fans + 1 ultrasonic fogger
A vent will change the air if RH goes too high or temp goes too high.

Another question, so 4. How important is it to monitor the CO2? I'll be using a closed tent - should I check the air CO2 concentration?

I hope I'm asking the right questions, please chime in if you have anything that you think might help :tiphat:

Intimea · Nov 5, 2016

Hi fonzee,

fonzee said:
Good afternoon friends,

In the near future I want to create a clone tent with climate control.
So far I've been using plastic propagators with peat pellets (Jiffy brand) and then moved to rockwool cubes. Some runs were successful, some weren't.
Now I want to avoid the use of medium and I'm thinking either water cups for still water cloning or a few fancy store-bought aeroponic cloners. Ideally the water would be without additives except for pH adjustment. Also I wish to keep the cuts out of a propagator to allow much more venting so I was thinking of metal shelves in a 1x1x2m grow tent + white IKEA LED lights for lightning (maybe flouro?) at 20/4 light cycle.

I'll try to answer

fonzee said:
Now for the stuff I haven't really figured out yet:
1. What are the ideal air temperatures and humidity levels for quick cloning?
2. What is the ideal water temperature for rooting?

My thinking was air temp 28, RH around 80%, water temp around 26-27 and 2 clip fans + 1 ultrasonic fogger
A vent will change the air if RH goes too high or temp goes too high.

Mmmh...i'll suggest you to keep the water temperture higher than the air temp...this will improve radication.
I keep
24/25°C on root zone
21/22°C on air temp

Initially I keep UR @90% and gradually lower it to 70% in 2weeks

IMHO it's really important prevent excessive temp excursion to avoid phytium on the stem

fonzee said:
3. How much air circulation is ideal for a 1x1x2m tent?

Well, you can easily read here
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=112862

And you have to consider that while cloning you must prefer mantain the right environmental range instead the right CO2 ppm.

fonzee said:
Another question, so 4. How important is it to monitor the CO2? I'll be using a closed tent - should I check the air CO2 concentration?

No

fonzee said:
I hope I'm asking the right questions, please chime in if you have anything that you think might help

Hope this help

:tiphat:

growingcrazy · Nov 5, 2016

I will follow along with this one. I have been curious as to why someone hasnt created something like this yet. Climate controlled clone factory.

TreehouseJ · Nov 5, 2016

If I had to propagate 1000 clones, my goofy ass would just buy translucent air locking containers and 1000 oasis cubes. I know that doesn't help much in the way of answering your questions, but I would bet my bottom dollar on a 99% success rate, whereas I'd probably lose some sleep if all those little girls were out transpiring in the open, relying on the functionality of machines to keep them alive.

I love engineering stuffs. I would set up a clone tent just like you are describing, if I had still had the gall. Excited to see what you come up with.

fonzee · Nov 5, 2016

Intimea said:
Hi fonzee,
I'll try to answer

Mmmh...i'll suggest you to keep the water temperture higher than the air temp...this will improve radication.
I keep
24/25°C on root zone
21/22°C on air temp

Initially I keep UR @90% and gradually lower it to 70% in 2weeks

IMHO it's really important prevent excessive temp excursion to avoid phytium on the stem

Well, you can easily read here
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=112862

And you have to consider that while cloning you must prefer mantain the right environmental range instead the right CO2 ppm.

No

Hope this help

Yo Intimea :tiphat:

These temperatures sounds low to me, how long does it normaly take to clone in such temperatures? (my plants would later get 26-27/24°C and 65-40%)

An aerocloner would allow increasing the root zone temp over the ambient, with the cups its not practical. Guess I'll have to find the difference the hard way.

The humidity part makes a lot of sense, thanks!

Air change will be defined by the termostat and hygrostat, but I'm wondering about the ideal air movement rate in such a setup. Do I want the plants to feel a breeze with a slight movement of the leaves? more? less? A video of the plants in such a setup would be incredibly welcome.
I was thinking of using 2 clip fans posed indirecly to create air movement in the tent, or a bigger, 14-16" fan, on the bottom of the tent that would create more movement.

:thank you:

growingcrazy said:
I will follow along with this one. I have been curious as to why someone hasnt created something like this yet. Climate controlled clone factory.

That's pretty much my intention

TreehouseJ said:
If I had to propagate 1000 clones, my goofy ass would just buy translucent air locking containers and 1000 oasis cubes. I know that doesn't help much in the way of answering your questions, but I would bet my bottom dollar on a 99% success rate, whereas I'd probably lose some sleep if all those little girls were out transpiring in the open, relying on the functionality of machines to keep them alive.

I love engineering stuffs. I would set up a clone tent just like you are describing, if I had still had the gall. Excited to see what you come up with.

Hi TreehouseJ,
That was my methodology up until now, but it wasn't perfect.
Getting super strong clones is a key part of my current no-veg grow style - it allows very even canopies and a quick harvest with minimum electricity.
With a propagator (self made or purchased) I didn't get homogeneous results. Plus, getting the clones without medium allows for much much easier transport and it seems like much less work.

Engineering climate control stuffs got quite reliable tools and I'm always enjoying learning about them - my plants really like the tune ups.
I won't be taking 1000s of clones but hopefuly 20-100 every week - few weeks.

Free the weed and let it grow

Intimea · Nov 6, 2016

Yo
Given that I am definitely not the most suitable for dispel your doubts, I'll try to.

fonzee said:
Yo Intimea
These temperatures sounds low to me, how long does it normaly take to clone in such temperatures? (my plants would later get 26-27/24°C and 65-40%)

An aerocloner would allow increasing the root zone temp over the ambient, with the cups its not practical. Guess I'll have to find the difference the hard way.

It's strongly strain dependant, but usually in 2 weeks I have rooted clones ready to transplant.
I use a single and simple dome (in which I can put till 80 clones)

If you look closer, you'll see a black cable on the rear...it'is the cable of thermostat sensor, and it's located on the bottom of the dome.
The dome is inside a SJ dark propagator

That is located in my "lung room"(if I can call it so

) in which I mantain a stable temp on 20°C...they're illuminated by a single 6w CFL Cool White, and the air temp inside the dome, nevere raise up to 22°C.

fonzee said:
The humidity part makes a lot of sense, thanks!

Air change will be defined by the termostat and hygrostat, but I'm wondering about the ideal air movement rate in such a setup. Do I want the plants to feel a breeze with a slight movement of the leaves? more? less? A video of the plants in such a setup would be incredibly welcome.
I was thinking of using 2 clip fans posed indirecly to create air movement in the tent, or a bigger, 14-16" fan, on the bottom of the tent that would create more movement.

Well, it depends on your purpose.
If in the same tent you're going to keep even your mums, you definetly need air movement, but the unrooted clones hate air movement.

If you feel comfortable with social media, I can suggest IG and try to follow jungleboyz (#playingwithfire)...HUGE set-up, tons of knowledge, and a lot of tricks.

To have the right homogeneity, you have to cut more clones than you need, and then choose.

wildcanthere · Nov 6, 2016

good thread!

fonzee · Nov 6, 2016

Intimea said:
Yo
Given that I am definitely not the most suitable for dispel your doubts, I'll try to.

It's strongly strain dependant, but usually in 2 weeks I have rooted clones ready to transplant.
I use a single and simple dome (in which I can put till 80 clones)

View Image

If you look closer, you'll see a black cable on the rear...it'is the cable of thermostat sensor, and it's located on the bottom of the dome.
The dome is inside a SJ dark propagator
View Image
That is located in my "lung room"(if I can call it so ) in which I mantain a stable temp on 20°C...they're illuminated by a single 6w CFL Cool White, and the air temp inside the dome, nevere raise up to 22°C.

Well, it depends on your purpose.
If in the same tent you're going to keep even your mums, you definetly need air movement, but the unrooted clones hate air movement.

If you feel comfortable with social media, I can suggest IG and try to follow jungleboyz (#playingwithfire)...HUGE set-up, tons of knowledge, and a lot of tricks.

To have the right homogeneity, you have to cut more clones than you need, and then choose.

View Image

I will probably use much more light than that, I hope to have around 30W per 100 clones. This will allow faster hardening for flowering.
At higher temperatures I know faster rooting is possible, I know people root in 4-7 days - how?

Of course having cuts to choose from increase the homogeneity, but I want to take the least extras possible...

I will check that IG up, thanks

TreehouseJ · Nov 6, 2016

fonzee said:
I know people root in 4-7 days - how?

The quickest results I have ever seen was when I let ~30 clones die overnight in a domeless fogger, and then stuck them all in rockwool out of heartbreak and desperation. They all poked roots through their cubes almost simultaneously within 72 hours. I wouldn't try and repeat this "experiment", but those clones rooted so quick and perked up so hard that I think it merits mention. Fear and hunger are the main driving forces of life, after all.

Shmavis · Nov 6, 2016

fonzee said:
... I know people root in 4-7 days - how?

Rapid Rooters and Clonex. Regularly find roots within 4-7 days.

wildcanthere · Nov 6, 2016

Shmavis said:
Rapid Rooters and Clonex. Regularly find roots within 4-7 days.

you won't, if the environment isn't perfect (temp, humidity, light).

fonzee · Nov 6, 2016

Shmavis said:
Rapid Rooters and Clonex. Regularly find roots within 4-7 days.

Yo Shmavis,
It didn't seem to me rapid rooters and clonex work faster (or slower) than aero cloners.
What is your "regular" cloning temp and humidity?

wildcanthere · Nov 6, 2016

and the light what you use... lol

unregistered190 · Nov 6, 2016

Shmavis said:
Rapid Rooters and Clonex. Regularly find roots within 4-7 days.

Same here but I use cheap rooting powder from Home Depot instead of Clonex. Have tried both and same results for me.

wildcanthere · Nov 6, 2016

music to my ears! more details plz!

TreehouseJ · Nov 6, 2016

Personally, if I ever tried to go medialess/domeless again, I wouldn't make the same mistake of taking all the clones at once. I would take a couple for a test run first to make sure all the moving parts and pieces in my setup were functioning properly. I def got over excited when I tried. If your clones do fall over and die overnight, try sticking them under a dome in some rockwool and see if they fight back as hard as mine did.

wildcanthere · Nov 6, 2016

just for the record my Cheese clones rooted as fck within 6 days in a cloning dome with rapid rooters and clonex. other strains needed more time in the same place, 10-14 days, sometimes even more to root.

humidity was high as fck, continous lightin with 20 watt cfl, optimal temperature not too high.

easy as fck

fonzee · Nov 6, 2016

TreehouseJ said:
Personally, if I ever tried to go medialess/domeless again, I wouldn't make the same mistake of taking all the clones at once. I would take a couple for a test run first to make sure all the moving parts and pieces in my setup were functioning properly. I def got over excited when I tried. If your clones do fall over and die overnight, try sticking them under a dome in some rockwool and see if they fight back as hard as mine did.

View Image

There are ample branches to clone in my case, I'm not too worried about it.

wildcanthere said:
just for the record my Cheese clones rooted as fck within 6 days in a cloning dome with rapid rooters and clonex. other strains needed more time in the same place, 10-14 days, sometimes even more to root.

humidity was high as fck, continous lightin with 20 watt cfl, optimal temperature not too high.

easy as fck

Numbers numbers numbers.
High as fuck is not on my humidity control dial.

Shmavis · Nov 6, 2016

fonzee said:
Yo Shmavis,
It didn't seem to me rapid rooters and clonex work faster (or slower) than aero cloners.
What is your "regular" cloning temp and humidity?

Hey fonzee,

I've never used an aero cloner. I don’t measure temp or humidity. Sometimes I use a heating mat under the dome’s tray. But more often than not I don’t. The cuttings in the dome are placed under T5s or CFL. Once sufficiently rooted they go into SOLO cups - and out of the dome. The way I do it definitely isn’t ‘set it and forget it’ since I’m regularly removing the dome to add water, check them, etc. It seems that the really nice thing about achieving what you’re after would be that it’s largely hands-off once dialed in.

I have also found speed of rooting to be strain specific, as noted by Intimea. For example, recently I took cuttings from six different girls. All except Pre-98 were busting roots by day seven. Was starting to wonder if Pre-98 was going to be a failure. Day eleven she proved otherwise. No big surprise I guess since she’s known to be a slow grower...

Guess I feel similarly as TreehouseJ here, I’d lose sleep trying to control an environment for clones outside of a propagating dome. (But see no reason why that should be the case if the setup is done proper, as you intend to do.)

However, Paddi, who clearly knows what he’s doing, uses just water and what appears to be minimal enviro controls. He shows it here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7610810&postcount=8

unregistered190 said:
Same here but I use cheap rooting powder from Home Depot instead of Clonex. Have tried both and same results for me.

Share with us the brand of this cheaper stuff at Home Depot, please.

fonzee said:
Numbers numbers numbers.
High as fuck is not on my humidity control dial.

wildcanthere · Nov 6, 2016

humidity is around 90%, 24/0 lightin with 20 watt cfl till they're in the dome, optimal temperature around 20 °C I prefer the lower temps in the cloning area and I see they prefer it too, but every setup is different. the cfl is 4200 K type kinda coolwhite, not the 2700 Kelvin colour warm shit.

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