Time Has arrived:Switching to organics..need advice!

...After 3 year or so, growing with Coco Hempy buckets with good results i'm making the change over to growing in a fully organic culture.

Thanks to the guys from the 'living soil' section for all the great detailed info, you know who you are..

I'd like to keep a track of the journey with a thread keeping the info together in one place too..

bare with any silly questions for now please as i've always been studying plants in hydro, trying to bring back to life all the organic info i studied once upon a time..something to work towards, deff not expecting to get it over night..

firstly is there a big difference in pre made soil mix or a home made mix a part from the costs involved? quality wise is my main concern..
I know guano is great for taste & you get diff types for all stages which is ideal however apparently not environmentally safe so curious to know if their any alternatives without compromising quality if what they say is true..

already bitten by the organics bugs and in the process of brewing a ewc,great white,molasses tea for the first time finally for hempy buckets i've been running with,once a week.. going well

need help from growers with experience using these mixes, i don't have the privilege of knowing any other growers personally to chat with and i'd really like to get into organics without having to spends years of trial and error like i have with hempy/coco, nutes etc.. hopefully get everything i need to switch over before winter is upon us..

The plants will be scrogged and in veg for around 6-7 weeks, can't decide on 15 liter or 19 liter pots? guessing with soil you need bigger pots?

thanks for looking.. all advice/opinions welcome


dreads

:quick update:
will be going with LC's soiless mix #1:

5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts worm castings or mushroom compost or home made compost
dolomite lime 2 tablespoons per gallon

Nutrient recipe RECIPE #3 (Burnz101 favorite)
Guano Tea and Kelp mix for seedlings, veg & flower.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses

water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.

To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Maxicrop or Neptune's Harvest liquid seaweed.
5 tsp. Black Strap Molasses
water with every watering.

for indica/sative which require different feeds ill just adjust the amounts if it requires more or less along the way..
if anyone has any experience using this method before please let me know how it went if anything needs to be supplemented will save me some time and hassle..

hope anyone else looking for info finds this useful..

keep you posted on how it goes

over n out

Start a worm bin.

Make a tea brewer, 5 gallons.

Invest in a good microscope.

Keep all your salts for later, just in case...

a worm bin is just what i need, thanks. Is it true it takes up to 3-5 months for the compost to be ready?

i'm interested in getting one as my garden can use some. Any idea what size would be ideal? Did you make your own or buy one dude.. seen a few that come with trays which are cool as worms work their way up leaving each tray of goodies behind..can probably be imitated for allot cheaper tho if i new the design.. and tips on that part pal?

tea brewer looks straight forward, was already looking into it.. might get on that right away 5 gallons sounds like a good size too.. keep forgetting it's not hydro with no res, no need for huge amounts of nutrient.

nice one for the input.. keep in touch..

There's some good worm advice in the stickies of the organic section...you can also check out redwormcomposting.com for a friendly introduction to worms. Microbeorganics.com has the latest info in aerated compost tea and brewer designs, all for free.

In organics, poo is good.

sorted looks like i have more info then i need to get things going..

@organicbuds-thanks for the tip, hidden message somewhere there... Look forward to getting my hands dirty this time..

feels allot better knowing you guys are around.. hopefully won't be long before i get my hands on all the ingredients.. going to make a worm bin, tea brewer.. will post back with some pics soon..

any idea on a ideal bucket size? plan is to veg for 6-7 weeks, modular scrog.. would 19 liters be too big? i'm guessing using soil it needs to be bigger right?

if you could have a look at the veg nutrient ingredients above: does it look good enough to supply plants for a long 6-7 week veg?

On the time to harvest castings it depends on the materials you put in as well as how happy the worms are and their type. I would say within 2 months you could use your castings. Juicer scrap fiber material will compost faster than say a chunk of apple and bananna's will go quick aside from the peels which I like to toss in the yard instead due to pesticides and such. I tend to give them juicer scraps, peeled and fine chopped fruit, and expired leafy greens like spinach or lettuce. Coco fiber stays around longer than peat moss but this is not a bad thing in my opinion I used both together last run. This time it is pure peat in an attempt to see the difference in the final harvest. I went about 4 months before restarting. I am a little new on the whole worm bin thing myself. An older bin will have more developed microlife so long as you leave a bit of material in the corners at harvest to help repopulate the new material. The rubber maid totes work well. I forget the size I bought but with 2" depth between each one for casting layers it was about 2 gallons each. My later totes had alot more holes than my first ones. I pinholed the bottom tote above the juice catcher tote so it looked about like a fine mesh screen.

Dude...I'd seriously consider taking a look at CC's or Gas's soil mixes. LC's mix will work but at the end of the day I found it to be a disappointment. The guano 'tea' recipe makes for some nasty shit. Take a look at microbeman's site and his 'tea' recipes...rock solid.

The soil mix and tea recipe you are about to try are old hat. It'll work but it is ultimately disappointing. Dolomite lime is unnecessary and can cause problems if you keep adding it back to your soil on recycle runs.

Best advice on Organics, don't slack on HUMUS... get some good quality compost, EWC, etc...
GOOD QUALITY!

thanks, sure that info on worm farming will come in handy... worm bin looks simple to put together, just deciding on a size at the moment since i'll be using some for my garden. Some interseting facts noted down. can't wait to get it going. Ill try and have the worm farm, tea brewer up by next weekend.

rancho thanks for sharing that with me. I researched LC's mix and many reviews had problems although for some it went fine. It sounds like a basic feed for a complete beginner to growing. New their was a catch to it.. the sticky with recipes etc is still active so figured the info was up to date.. i'll have a read could be an updated version in there somewhere , never had time to fully go through it cause it's over 100 pages haha i'll have a look at the ones you mentioned.. nice one dude

soursmoker thanks for emphasizing on quality...reading between the lines and notice the hidden message, shouldn't be long before i catch the drift.. humus apparently good at ph balancing also, i'll look into it more.. if all goes well in a few months i should have quality ewc

guys just like to add, we have a problem..I can't get hold of any guano, only high phosphate (1-10-1)-(2-13-1) both similar to indonesian and jamaican although different brands. prob the same stuff. Spend the whole night & morning Looking everywhere..strange! I can only get it shipped from the states at $100+postage for 11lb. which is very costly right? brand is sunleaves.

any ideas how long 1lb or 11lb of guano might last ? if its worth getting it shipped from the states...

can anyone else comment on the guano tea recipe? i'd like to add some sort of guano if possible.

to make matters worse..can't get hold of any azomite or greensand both of which after reading are supposed to awsome! such a shame.. is rock dust like green sand? if anyone knows of any stores with these products that can ship to uk for a reasonable price feel free to drop me pm.. running out of options.

last option is to switch recipes to one where i can source the ingredients without too much trouble.. might have to bit the bullet on this and accept what i have :|

this was supposed to be the easy bit..fu*@ed up eh!

going to read up all the new info, take my time and look around.. get some reading done before reporting back.. lucky this micro stuff is interesting

keep you posted.. peace

i wouldnt recommend using the lc mix straight up. unless you want leaf claw and excess n in your soil. mix the base soil and globally amend kelp, neem meal and maybe some rock dusts. then save the guanos if you are that intent on using them as top dressings.

do what gloryoskie said about a brewer and worm bin. scope is a nice added benefit.

and skip the dolomite lime.

dreadlock--I started w/LC's mix from the Organics for Beginners thread a year or two ago. Search my username and you'll find my posts and pix. Things started well but I ran into issues in flower. I've since moved to CC and Gas' mixes as RD mentioned (check out RD's grow sometime, too!) and I'm having much better results. FTI has a great starter thread based on the same process.

Making Organic Potting Soil 101

And there are several active uk members here that will chime in shortly. There's tons of super helpful folks here.

Don't pay a fortune to have some petrified bat droppings shipped in. A garden loving people such as what's found in the UK should have plenty of options on hand. You can feed your plants with plants already around you...chamomile, borage, comfrey, yarrow, valerian, stinging nettles...poke around the organic section a little more and you'll get all kinds of suggestions to start applying what's locally available and often free with a little foraging.

In the UK you have palletized comfrey, stinging nettles and kelp meal + comfrey pellets and several others. Why would you want bat guano? Most over-hyped fertilizers in the weed world.

11 lbs. for $100.00 - seriously? Price here is $55.00 for 60 lbs. and very little of it ever gets sold.

For good reason......

Sounds like you are where i was at a few years ago mate.

Unable to source certain amendments (peatmoss, greensand, crab meal) and convinced LCs#1 was the way to go.

Its good for veg and seedlings but i found it lacking in flower quite often and can throw up issues with lockouts etc. It would be a good choice for bottled organic nutes.

But now im very happy with a more humus based recipe

1/4 screened topsoil
1/4 wormcastings/mature compost (homemade)
1/4 coco coir
1/4 drainage amendment - sand, lavarock, pumice, perlite etc

Biochar added @ 15 parts soil to 1 part biochar. Topdressed with neemcake, kelp, comfrey and a little Indo bat guano. This is then topped with barley straw to help keep those dry ingredients moist and earthworm, springtail activity up.

The thing is you wont get the same fungal networks, microbial action and worm activity etc in LCs#1 and it is from those actions we get the most from our raw/fresh/dried herbs organic approach...

thanks for the input bud, good to hear from you. interesting recipe... sounds like with this approach everything you need is already in the mix and just needs to be broken down correctly right?

what would you use to feed the above mix during a 7 week veg.. i'm guessing a simple tea once a week would be good since it already contains N.

noticed you mentioned springtails.. i could see 100s if not 1000s chilling on my medium today.. would be an under statement to say i was worried! Never seen them before in all my 3 years of growing .. not sure how i got them dude or what to do? I'm learning they aren't so bad although apparently if they increase without enough fungi food supply they can feed on healthy tissue ie roots, effect growth, chlorosis on leaves.. also heard they compete for food and oxygen which can't be too good.

i'm on a last run of coco/hempy before making the switch over to soil. should give me enough time to get prepared mate..looks like i'll need it! anyway decided to add a layer off ewc to flowering plants, for the sake a few days ago.. feeding with chem nutes as normal since.. They got their first EWC tea feed today which is when i noticed springtails all over.. originally thought they were microbes working haha it was a simple tea of great white, molasses, ewc brewed for around 40hrs.. the idea was from a thread called 'root porn'. A coco grower supplements his coco plants with the a tea once a week along side chem nutrients with great looking roots..

no idea how i got them, if they were from the supplier of the coco or ewc? or did an insect make itself at home past few days into the top rich ewc layer..?

you mentioned keeping the springtail activity up in your mix by keeping the medium moist with straw etc would it be safe to say they are beneficial to certain types of organic mixes ie yours in particular and not all? sorry getting mixed feedback here + my experience with them today left me un-easy.. is it must to have them in soil?

I get alot of springtails in my wormbin which is probably a sign that the castings you used are indeed alive. I believe most are beneficial and help with the composting process. I wouldn't sweat the batshit (B.S.). I have never used it. As scrappy and many others state. "compost is key" Get that life into the soil. Also remember adding the chems to the organics is a little self defeating. I used to use them myself until I discovered my roots so to speak. Save them as your comfort cushion while you need it or if things go south in your attempts to revive mother nature but keep the two separate and you will see a big improvement in the organic area.

The springtails, slugs (not many) and worms etc are helping breakdown my mulch layer and all contribute to the Living part of the ROLS trip lots of us are on. I dont know of any specific benefits to the springtails, its actually the first time i have had any... BUT, if i go outside an turnover any rock or mulch chances are i will uncover a mass of jumping springtails going mental or wood slaters or worms and everything is thriving out there.

Indoors we are basically trying to replicate natural growing outdoors to make the most of the systems nature has provided.

Trust me, use the biggest pots you can, make sure they drain well and its really hard to go wrong... I and others like to use a couple inches of lavarock on the bottom. This isnt so much drainage but to ensure there is space for air under the soil. Our soil is alive (or at least we are aiming for it to be) and it breathes too.

Plants grow in these large containers mostly hassle free and yeah with the correct amount of topdress/pre amendments (especially the biochar) fertilising per se, becomes a thing of the past. The plant just grows as (close to) nature intended.

In LCs#1 you gonna be constantly pumping em up with soluble nutrients and running into probs come flower time in my experience. It does have its place and you can get away with smaller pots but WAY more hassle...

just about have enough energy to type & smoke a quick joint ;D.. hearing your words gives me peace of mind, priceless hehe Been reading up on micros all night.. some interesting shit!! Think i deserve a break now..you can test me tomorrow ZZzzzzz going to shut my eyes for a little while, will get back shortly.... over & out