Name That Disease, Win A Prize

Not really a prize, but my undying gratification.
This disease has been plaguing me for 2 years.
It has to be spore based because I cannot get rid of it, despite numerous cleanings, air filters, physan baths on everything, leaving room empty for months at a time and re-cleaning. Nothing works.
Plants start out fine, but just after 2 week mark in veg, start to droop and get spots. I want to emphasize that it is a disease, not a PH, nute or lockout problem. By dosing plants with aspirin at first sign of symptoms, they recover immediately, and finish just fine, but I cannot take cuts from them, as cuts will be infected also. For this reason, I have not grown out any of my elite cuts, ie. very expensive seeds, however these strains are no slouches: AK47, C99, Critical+. I would really like to know what it is and if possible to get rid of, before abandoning this space. Nothing I have tried has worked, and i have pretty much everything in my arsenal. Only aspirin saves them.

Here's a picture of a diseased leaf on AK47:


Critical+: Seems to be disease resistant:


Cindy 99 with rust:


Note: Canopy is healthy, plants almost done in these pictures:






If not for aspirin, these plants would have died.

The buds look real NICE there not just going though there natural life cycle are they?

It could be TMV (tobacco mosaic virus) and the aspirin activates the plants Systemic Acquired Resistance. Have you tried raising temps to about 95F-100F to see if this has any effect, which would be indicative of TMV? Ultimately though you might have to get, plant material tested out in a lab. It could also be a fungus attacking your roots.

It ain't nothin.
Well nothing to worry about. Pluck the leaf and smile at your beautiful buds.

You might look her over carefully for mold but I doubt you'll find any. That top pic looks more like light burn or maybe splashed with nutes under light.

The others are beautiful for the stage of bloom.

Nice job man. Kudos

Stress_test said:

That top pic looks more like light burn or maybe splashed with nutes under light.

Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking when I saw it.
Otherwise, you've got a great looking harvest there.

seanseanhen said:

It could be TMV (tobacco mosaic virus) and the aspirin activates the plants Systemic Acquired Resistance. Have you tried raising temps to about 95F-100F to see if this has any effect, which would be indicative of TMV? Ultimately though you might have to get, plant material tested out in a lab. It could also be a fungus attacking your roots.

Click to expand...

I just realized that my response didn't address seanseanhen's suggestion. How rude of me.

Anyway it is extremely unlikely that it is TMV because TMV is most likely to occur in younger plants that are more susceptible with weaker immunity.
Spraying dissolved Aspirin on younger plants will help build immunity and combat TMV, but spraying anything on plants that far into flower cycle is risky.

Okay My BAD.
I looked at the pics and started drooling and dropped a knee-jerk response. Besides I was stoned. LOL

RetroGrow said:

Not really a prize, but my undying gratification.
This disease has been plaguing me for 2 years.
It has to be spore based because I cannot get rid of it, despite numerous cleanings, air filters, physan baths on everything, leaving room empty for months at a time and re-cleaning. Nothing works.
Plants start out fine, but just after 2 week mark in veg, start to droop and get spots. I want to emphasize that it is a disease, not a PH, nute or lockout problem. By dosing plants with aspirin at first sign of symptoms, they recover immediately, and finish just fine, but I cannot take cuts from them, as cuts will be infected also. For this reason, I have not grown out any of my elite cuts, ie. very expensive seeds, however these strains are no slouches: AK47, C99, Critical+. I would really like to know what it is and if possible to get rid of, before abandoning this space. Nothing I have tried has worked, and i have pretty much everything in my arsenal. Only aspirin saves them.

Here's a picture of a diseased leaf on AK47:

If not for aspirin, these plants would have died.

Click to expand...

I will give full credit to seanseanhen, as he is absolutely correct. However my reply was also correct in that the picture above looks like splashed nutes or light burn. It is also correct in every other aspect BUT over looks an important detail: Plants with TMV will almost always grow out of it as they mature.
Here is some valid info about TMV and what you can do to combat it. I'm not entirely convinced it's actually bad for the plants.

I have a friend who has been inflicted with TMV for the last 2 years and his plants always finish beautifully. Even though they begin quite slowly in the early veg stage, once they build a resistance the new growth seldom displays symptoms and the early stress and resulting defoliation of lower and older vegetation encourages more root growth and the plants really kick in.
I've seen his infected plants out grow healthy plants and nearly double yield with increased potency.

But the bottom line is that you have a beautiful garden. Keep up the Aspirin regime, I use it as well, and in my nutes also.

Got any pics of it at the 2 week mark when they start drooping & die???

Could be TMV ive got it in my garden..the critical leaf looks like it, any leaf curls or distorted leaves? The bleaching of the leaves is a tmv symptom i get that alot in veg mainly any plants directly under the light can get it i also see what looks like a slight mag def, i get this too it seems to be from the tmv i get mad ph swings and have had what appears to be lock out when everything is right in the garden...im just flowering out the last of my infected plants then im starting fresh with all new equipment, im not taking any risks!
And you need to sanitize your grow room tmv is incredibly stable im replacing pots tents everything except the electrics...Hope you sort it out man...Good luck..Peace D

Hmmm....I appreciate everyone's comments, but I'm not sure anyone has hit it on the head yet. The few leaves that look bad aren't that way because something spilled on them or whatnot. Those are just a few leaves that look bad at this late stage, that I hadn't removed for purposes of taking photos.However there are no ill effects to the plants as long as I continually dose them with aspirin, and I mean with each watering, they must get 325 Mg. per gallon of water or they will deteriorate and die. This has been going on for two years, over half dozen grows. Plants perfect until 2 week mark, and then start to wilt, get spotted, and begin to die off. Only aspirin keeps them going. I do not believe it's TMV, but rather some spore based disease. The problem, I cannot make selections and keep the best plants, because any cuts will be infected. Last run, I tried revegging my best plant. For about a month it was doing superbly, then the "symptoms" started up again. They start to sag and get yellowing, spots, and rust, as pictured. By the way there is natural yellowing pictured as they are in the final stages in those photos after being flushed. I repeat, I have "sanitized" the grow room many times, but nothing works. Even after sanitizing, leaving it empty for 6 months, and sanitizing again, it comes back. That's why I'm guessing it's spore based. Have tried antifungals, but to no avail. Have tried Physan with no effect. The only thing that keeps them going is aspirin.
The thing is, I don't see any other TMV symptoms. The leaves that don't get spotted look perfect. No deformities at all, no leaf curl. It doesn't effect the buds at all. They are good. Smell good,taste good, everything! By the way, I don't spray the plants with aspirin, but rather add it to nute solution.
Of the 3 strains, the Critical+ seems most resistant, while the AK47 seems to be affected the most. Also noticed that aspirin seems to turn the AK47s into males, as I was left with only one female out of 5 planted, and the males indicated very late.
By the way, most of those tops are from 2 Critical+, grown in 5 gallon Hempy buckets. They were vegged for 2 months and topped several times, and put out an incredible number of tops. Very prolific plants and the Hempy buckets have to be the easiest method of growing I have tried to date. I highly recommend Critical+. Very fruity, tasty, and prolific beyond belief. Fastest strain I have seen. Finish in about 50 days and are huge.
They were freebies from the Boo. Fems too. These must grow enormous outside. If only I could take clones and get something going, but impossible in this situation. Don't want to put infected plants outside.

seanseanhen said:

It could be TMV (tobacco mosaic virus) and the aspirin activates the plants Systemic Acquired Resistance. Have you tried raising temps to about 95F-100F to see if this has any effect, which would be indicative of TMV? Ultimately though you might have to get, plant material tested out in a lab. It could also be a fungus attacking your roots.

Click to expand...

Haven't tried raising temps. They are in air conditioned comfort. What would raising temps do?

Eatatjoes said:

This is what I was thinking when I saw it.
Otherwise, you've got a great looking harvest there.

Click to expand...

Definitely not light burn or splashed nutes. Most of the sickly leaves had been removed, and these were just the last one's to photograph.

Not the last time i checked.
Why?

Like I said, finish out the crop. It looks fine.

Now I have worked in several nurseries that were infected with TMV and we always used the same procedures.
Aspirin works and will hold TMV at bay indefinitely as far as my own experience.

TMV effects plants in the late seedling-early veg stages, as I said before, then with the proper feeding regiment, they recover and the symptoms of TMV appear to go dormant.

Mothers seldom ever show symptoms because they are past what I call the "adolescence stage".
Clones seldom show symptoms until they are introduced to nutrients. BUT usually if ASPIRIN is dissolved into the cloning water, the effects or symptoms of TMV aren't nearly as severe.

However:
Many studies actually indicated that TMV may actually be a beneficial symbiont for cannabis. Effected plants do tend to yield more and more potent bud as a result of positive stress.

LOL Stress test it.
But since you already have it dialed in and obviously have a grip on dealing with it? What's the problem?

That sure is a beautiful garden buddy.
I'd love to see a documentary thread on growing a garden like that with plants infected with TMV.
It would be even more interesting to have another garden set up with the same strains, medium, etc. except w/out TMV. And see which does actually will do better.

Clones don't work.
They get sick and die.
That's why I don't think it's TMV, but I could be wrong.
I'm looking into spore based diseases to see if the symptoms fit.
One things for sure: aspirin is a miracle drug, even for plants.
Yes, these plants are fine, but, I am stuck growing from seeds.
Can't take clones and put them outside like I want to.
And, am sitting on SSH, SD IBL, SSSDH, 4SD, Chemdog/SD, Sour Bubble, and others.
I don't want to start any of those elite strains in that space and have to nurse them along, because I want to be able to select and make clones.

MIway said:

Got any pics of it at the 2 week mark when they start drooping & die???

Click to expand...

Here's some new ones from next grow.
Same problem, starting @ week two.
Cause:unknown.










They look fine from the top.

Have not been able to get rid of this, whatever it is. These plants were not in my grow room, but in another section of the house under flouros.
Same result, though.
Disease has to be air borne.
Anyone?

Have you had your water tested?

Using bottled water mixed with tap water.
It's not a water/PH/nute problem.
This is a disease, for sure, that has been in my environment for 2 years.
It's not TMV, but it could be some other virus, although I doubt it.
I believe it's spore based, because I have not been able to get rid of it.
Plants get sick @ two week mark, and will go down fast without aspirin application.

I would test both of your water sources. Bottled water is only tap water ran through filtration. Since municipal water supplies are treated with chlorine and/or chloramine, these substances must be neutralized. It is best to use a product that neutralizes both, since water supplies are often treated with them alternately or simultaneously, and no notice is given to customers of such changes. I don't know what neutralizes them either. I switched to R.O. water.
You can buy simple acids and bases to lower or raise pH, but most products are buffered to a specific pH. You must realize, however, that if you wish to lower pH, and your water is highly alkaline, that is, it has a lot of buffering capacity, then the pH in your water will bounce right back up again, no matter how much of the product you add.
Keep in mind that TDS (total dissolved solids) increase with the addition of any dissolved chemicals. Thus, as you try to lower the pH of hard, basic water of high alkalinity with additions of acid products, you are actually increasing the TDS. Your babies prefer a stable pH that is not the same as their natural habitat to a pH rollercoaster as you dump in acid, watch the pH bounce back up, and then add more acid. Raising pH is much easier than lowering it. I found this out when the pH levels kept killing my aquarium fish. No matter how much pH down I used, it always bounced right back up. You tap water may have a large "buffering" capacity and be spiking back up at some point causing various lock outs. It's a shot in the dark but I wanted others to know about this "buffering capacity" with their local municipal water supplies. I'm sorry your clones are taking a hit but the others sure look nice. Wishing you the best man.

vvvvv Go with D.S. Toker. MD's answer!!! Run man run! vvvvvv