Help!! Clones die after transplanting into coco

Themagnata · Dec 22, 2020

My clones have been dying about a week after I transplant them into coco coir pots.

Already lost like 8 clones, i am doing something wrong and i don't know what.

They are under a 250w MH Lamp, 18h light cycle

After some days after transplanting the clones into pots, the leaves start getting yellow then they crisp up and die.

As the leafs were getting yellow i thought this is a nitrogen deficiency. So I fed them a light solution of 1/4 of the recommended dose.
Now they looked burned after I fed them.
I'm not sure if it's really nutrient burn or if it's just some symptom because the plant is dying from something else.

I have tried transplanting to big pots and small ones and the ones in the big pots take longer to die..

I have some plants that have survived and are growing nice but most of my clones still keep dying.

Here are some pictures

TanzanianMagic · Dec 22, 2020

Themagnata said:
My clones have been dying about a week after I transplant them into coco coir pots.

Already lost like 8 clones, i am doing something wrong and i don't know what.

They are under a 250w MH Lamp, 18h light cycle

After some days after transplanting the clones into pots, the leaves start getting yellow then they crisp up and die.

As the leafs were getting yellow i thought this is a nitrogen deficiency. So I fed them a light solution of 1/4 of the recommended dose.
Now they looked burned after I fed them.
I'm not sure if it's really nutrient burn or if it's just some symptom because the plant is dying from something else.

I have tried transplanting to big pots and small ones and the ones in the big pots take longer to die..

I have some plants that have survived and are growing nice but most of my clones still keep dying.

Here are some pictures

- So I fed them a light solution of 1/4 of the recommended dose.

What is the nutrient line?

- You need to give them 0.4 EC of late flowering food (Canna PK 13/14, Plagron Green Sensation, Atami B'Cuzz Bloombastic or similar) and 0.1 EC of epsom salt (MgSO4). If your tapwater has a high pH and chlorene (which is alkaline and has a pH of 7.2-7.8), you should use Reverse Osmosis (R/O) to filter your water. Chlorene can evaporate on it's own and lower the pH.

And forget about nitrogen. There is enough nitrogen in the air (NO3), and these plants are not growing quickly. Nitrogen is for growth. Seedlings need development, not growth. They need to grow roots (P), thicken their stems (K) and have healthy and phototropic foliage (Mg).

After they start to grow roots and new leaves, and the new leaves have outgrown the old ones, you should switch to 50% strength of a coco specific cannabis nutrient, like Canna or even Plagron.

Also, has the coco been flushed? Bagged coco from Canna, Plagron or Biobizz doesn't need to be flushed. Coco bricks do often have to be flushed.

Also, before use, you should still soak bagged coco in a very light nutrient solution for a day or so. Same for grow rocks except a week instead of a day.

You should pH the nutrient solution to the pH of the medium. Coco buffers to an ideal coco growing pH of 6.0. If you adjust the nutrient solution to that pH for most of the grow, you're never challenging the buffering capacity of the coco coir and will avoid major pH swings.

Also, in order to encourage root growth, you should reduce watering frequency. Contrary to popular belief, it is ok for the top of the coir to get a little dry (color change) before watering again. Set your schedule accordingly. Letting the coco get a little dry also uncompacts the medium and allows roots to grow more easily.

MoeFunk · Dec 22, 2020

1st off... those pots are way too big for those plants. Especially in coco.

Are you hardening them off while cloning them, or keeping the dome on 24/7? If it's the latter, that could very well be your problem right there. The extreme humidity change from being in the dome to out in regular air can kill a plant if not gradually introduced to the lower humidity. The leaves need to adjust and harden off over several days.

If it's not that, I'd say from the looks of them either they don't like your coco mix or you're cooking them with your light.

You can check the root system of one that died. If the roots didn't expand into your coco mix that says a lot. Could be ph issue, could be too wet, could be high sodium if it's cheap coco. If you think this is your issue, try a sample batch in some premium potting soil and compare. You want moist, not totally drenched.

Were they under the hps before you transplanted them? If not, you could be cooking them. If they were under low light conditions in the dome, they need to gradually get used to more intense light.

carson · Dec 22, 2020

What medium are the clones in? What brand of coco are you transplanting into?

TanzanianMagic · Dec 22, 2020

MoeFunk said:
those pots are way too big for those plants.

If there is a lowering of nutrient concentration and a reduction in watering until after the top of the coco is dry, then you can plant in whatever size container you want. A larger container will even hold moisture longer. Add nutrients with a higher phosphorus content and you get more root growth. Rooting during flowering translates into more and bigger flowers.

You can even plant seeds in the ground. There's no bigger container than planet earth.

Themagnata · Dec 26, 2020

TanzanianMagic said:
- So I fed them a light solution of 1/4 of the recommended dose.

What is the nutrient line?

- You need to give them 0.4 EC of late flowering food (Canna PK 13/14, Plagron Green Sensation, Atami B'Cuzz Bloombastic or similar) and 0.1 EC of epsom salt (MgSO4). If your tapwater has a high pH and chlorene (which is alkaline and has a pH of 7.2-7.8), you should use Reverse Osmosis (R/O) to filter your water. Chlorene can evaporate on it's own and lower the pH.

And forget about nitrogen. There is enough nitrogen in the air (NO3), and these plants are not growing quickly. Nitrogen is for growth. Seedlings need development, not growth. They need to grow roots (P), thicken their stems (K) and have healthy and phototropic foliage (Mg).

After they start to grow roots and new leaves, and the new leaves have outgrown the old ones, you should switch to 50% strength of a coco specific cannabis nutrient, like Canna or even Plagron.

Also, has the coco been flushed? Bagged coco from Canna, Plagron or Biobizz doesn't need to be flushed. Coco bricks do often have to be flushed.

Also, before use, you should still soak bagged coco in a very light nutrient solution for a day or so. Same for grow rocks except a week instead of a day.

You should pH the nutrient solution to the pH of the medium. Coco buffers to an ideal coco growing pH of 6.0. If you adjust the nutrient solution to that pH for most of the grow, you're never challenging the buffering capacity of the coco coir and will avoid major pH swings.

Also, in order to encourage root growth, you should reduce watering frequency. Contrary to popular belief, it is ok for the top of the coir to get a little dry (color change) before watering again. Set your schedule accordingly. Letting the coco get a little dry also uncompacts the medium and allows roots to grow more easily.

I am using General Hydroponics (terra aquatica) 3part nutrients.

I am not measuring EC, as a beginner i started growing without measuring EC and got away with it so yeah... now after 4 years i started growing again. before i only did 3 grows. the last grow got me some good weed

I seem to have forgotten about some of the things that i had learned before about growing through experience

anyways.. do you think i should start measuring EC of the water?

And i didnt know i should give late flowering food to clones.. i have bloom booster from General hydroponics, would that work?

if i should wait until the clones grow new leafs to then feed, then i def made the mistake of feeding to early, i really think i have been burning my clones.. but i dont understand why the leafs get so yellow.. thats why i fed in the first place thinking it was a nitrogen deficiency

i flushed my coco with RO water and no PH... just let water run through the pots before i plant any clones.

" You should pH the nutrient solution to the pH of the medium. Coco buffers to an ideal coco growing pH of 6.0. If you adjust the nutrient solution to that pH for most of the grow, you're never challenging the buffering capacity of the coco coir and will avoid major pH swings."

Iam sorry but i dont understand what you mean by this..

Themagnata · Dec 26, 2020

carson said:
What medium are the clones in? What brand of coco are you transplanting into?

The brand of coco i am using is just the cheap bricks of coco with no brand on it from the growshop

TanzanianMagic · Dec 27, 2020

Themagnata said:
I am using General Hydroponics (terra aquatica) 3part nutrients.

I am not measuring EC, as a beginner i started growing without measuring EC and got away with it so yeah... now after 4 years i started growing again. before i only did 3 grows. the last grow got me some good weed

I seem to have forgotten about some of the things that i had learned before about growing through experience

anyways.. do you think i should start measuring EC of the water?

And i didnt know i should give late flowering food to clones.. i have bloom booster from General hydroponics, would that work?

if i should wait until the clones grow new leafs to then feed, then i def made the mistake of feeding to early, i really think i have been burning my clones.. but i dont understand why the leafs get so yellow.. thats why i fed in the first place thinking it was a nitrogen deficiency

i flushed my coco with RO water and no PH... just let water run through the pots before i plant any clones.

" You should pH the nutrient solution to the pH of the medium. Coco buffers to an ideal coco growing pH of 6.0. If you adjust the nutrient solution to that pH for most of the grow, you're never challenging the buffering capacity of the coco coir and will avoid major pH swings."

Iam sorry but i dont understand what you mean by this..

- Coco is almost hydroponics, so pH and EC are very important.

- Basically until late flowering, you should make the pH of the nutrient solution the same as the pH of the coco: 6.0.

- The GHE Flora Bloom (0-5-4) would work.

I don't know what is in the GHE Bloom Booster.

Another thing about GH:

Why a new brand ?

GHE® is the European offshoot of General Hydroponics, a veritable institution for all farmers in the United States. However, in 2015, this Californian gem was bought by the American giant of lawn and garden products, Scotts Miracle-Gro Co. Far removed from these purely financial considerations and in keeping with its work ethic, GHE has decided to seek its independence and focus on the basics: the products, the plants, and our customers.

https://www.terraaquatica.com/why-a-new-brand/

I think it is best to start with lines that are specific to growing cannabis in coco - Canna, Plagron, Biobizz.

audiohi · Dec 27, 2020

Coco needs nutrients. Even for seedlings. It has a very low cation exchange capacity.

1/2 strength grow formula for clones until roots are established, then full strength. You could even go full strength on the clones from a mother plant.

Water often. Don't let them dry out as it messes with cation exchange capacity. Overwatering in coco isn't really a problem.

Always check and adjust ph. Check your EC runoff if you have problems.

Flushing with RO also isn't ideal. You should add some calcium and magnesium to displace excess sodium or potassium in the coco. Or use plain water. It's called buffering and it balances the cations.

Fixer · Dec 27, 2020

Try using pre-buffered loose coco from a bag. I go straight from the cloner to Solo cups full of coco and full strength veg mix. I add Azos to encourage root growth. I rarely loos a clone with this method. If you're growing from seed you need to feed after the first couple of weeks. There's nothing in coco for the plants to eat.

Roadblock · Dec 28, 2020

Id say you have not developed a big root system before transplant and basically drowned them in the big pots , then a chain reaction begins with nutrient lock out and could develop into root rot.

Put them away from the intense light to lower demand and let them dry out, foliar feed with a 1/4 strength nutrient and only water the pot very lightly until you get them going, you will be in catch up mode for a couple of weeks and too wet a container will bring more problems.

TanzanianMagic · Jan 8, 2021

Fixer said:
If you're growing from seed you need to feed after the first couple of weeks. There's nothing in coco for the plants to eat.

I agree with that last part too.

However for seeds again the best way is to prepare the coco with 0.4EC of a high PK nutrient and 0.1EC of espsom salt for magnesium.

Without those nutrients, the seedlings don't grow and put out a large rootsystem (P), build a strong silvery green stem (K) and have healthy and phototropic leaves (Mg).

I agree new cuttings should have no nutrients at all until they start to root. Their first nutrients come from the leaves.

Bagged coco can be used for cloning and seeds.

Fakir710 · Jan 14, 2021

Roadblock said:
Id say you have not developed a big root system before transplant and basically drowned them in the big pots , then a chain reaction begins with nutrient lock out and could develop into root rot.

I was about to say something similar... Wait till they got bigger roots, enough to beign transplanted. If you already transplanted the best chance is cover them with a plastic cup or the bottom of a bottle and foliar spray them, like if it was a mini greenhouse, this way they can still get some water trough leafs.

Anyway they look a little fucked up in the pics, an smooth foliar spray with something like formulex will help to keep them green trough the rooting process...

Regards and good luck.

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Help!! Clones die after transplanting into coco

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