Edit. I had a link to a web article. Somehow a dupe post came up. I edited the second post, and the first one somehow had the same change. Operator error. We'll see it it does that again.
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I am sorry for our Australian Brothers and Sisters
- Thread starter flylowgethigh
- Start date
yaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnnnn...zzzzzzzzzzz
Sunshineinabag
Active member
Forced vacs? No way
White Beard
Active member
I remember when we were “forced” to take the polio vaccine when I was a kid.
There were no armed parents screaming about their “right” to catch and transmit the disease: polio hit EVERY community - not just once in a while, everyone knew more than a few friends, classmates, neighbors, relatives who died from it, were born deformed and broken from it, were (*and still ARE*) trapped in wheelchairs and on crutches from polio. Yes, not all those who caught it before the vaccine are dead...there are many who still struggle to carry on living with useless legs and malfunctioning bodies today.
‘Course, that was before the “fluoride poisoning” outrage - courtesy of the JBS outrage machine, and before it was mainstreamed by every nut on YouTube. EVERYONE wanted their kids vaccinated...it worked so effectively that people today see polio victims and call them gimps, useless eaters, without even knowing they’re looking at herd immunity, old-style, in action.
TL;DR = before vaccine, polio was common - after vaccine, polio is rare and limited to pre-vaccine cases. But sure, let ‘Tyler Durden’ and zero-brain.com ‘splain it to you in terms that make you feel righteous....
It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic: so many screaming against the vaccine before it’s even ready for testing, *AND* demanding ‘herd immunity’ without any real understanding of how herd immunity works (hint: it’s not as simple as ‘let the weak ones die’).
I have my own issues with how we approach immunization, but reality has a way of changing ones point of view over time - that is, if one pays attention to reality.
There were no armed parents screaming about their “right” to catch and transmit the disease: polio hit EVERY community - not just once in a while, everyone knew more than a few friends, classmates, neighbors, relatives who died from it, were born deformed and broken from it, were (*and still ARE*) trapped in wheelchairs and on crutches from polio. Yes, not all those who caught it before the vaccine are dead...there are many who still struggle to carry on living with useless legs and malfunctioning bodies today.
‘Course, that was before the “fluoride poisoning” outrage - courtesy of the JBS outrage machine, and before it was mainstreamed by every nut on YouTube. EVERYONE wanted their kids vaccinated...it worked so effectively that people today see polio victims and call them gimps, useless eaters, without even knowing they’re looking at herd immunity, old-style, in action.
TL;DR = before vaccine, polio was common - after vaccine, polio is rare and limited to pre-vaccine cases. But sure, let ‘Tyler Durden’ and zero-brain.com ‘splain it to you in terms that make you feel righteous....
It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic: so many screaming against the vaccine before it’s even ready for testing, *AND* demanding ‘herd immunity’ without any real understanding of how herd immunity works (hint: it’s not as simple as ‘let the weak ones die’).
I have my own issues with how we approach immunization, but reality has a way of changing ones point of view over time - that is, if one pays attention to reality.
Gry
Well-known member
We currently have 3 states in the US that mandate vaccines for kids.
Big pharma is working to expand that.
I expect adult vaccines will be mandated.
The number currently in the pipeline is disturbing.
Patients who refuse vaccines may well fine themselves tagged as non compliant.
Which can have severe down steam effects.
Big pharma is working to expand that.
I expect adult vaccines will be mandated.
The number currently in the pipeline is disturbing.
Patients who refuse vaccines may well fine themselves tagged as non compliant.
Which can have severe down steam effects.
The gov can say that whether the populace has guns or not. And island nations, I imagine, are going to be a little more hardcore on vax. Less space to get away from the asshole-baby population. Wonder what Hawaii will do? Puerto Rico? Etc..
A thread about nothing really. Our government will not force anyone to vaccinate. They may make it harder for non vaccers. I am at an age where I have a short fuse when it comes to stupidity. Personally I will get vaccinated as soon as I can. By the way, apart from farmers and feral pest exterminators no one needs a gun in Australia
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The health minister Greg Hunt says the federal government will not “force vaccinations on any Australian” and Scott Morrison has clarified they would not be compulsory after experts expressed concern that earlier talk of “mandatory” vaccination might drive hesitant Australians away.
.....
“It is not going to be compulsory to have the vaccine, OK? It’s not compulsory. There are no compulsory vaccines in Australia,” he said on Wednesday evening.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...atory-covid-vaccine-is-dangerous-experts-warn
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The health minister Greg Hunt says the federal government will not “force vaccinations on any Australian” and Scott Morrison has clarified they would not be compulsory after experts expressed concern that earlier talk of “mandatory” vaccination might drive hesitant Australians away.
.....
“It is not going to be compulsory to have the vaccine, OK? It’s not compulsory. There are no compulsory vaccines in Australia,” he said on Wednesday evening.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...atory-covid-vaccine-is-dangerous-experts-warn
no one there uses them for sport? no target shooters? no hunting? violence has been eradicated? no home invasions? rapes? assaults? self defense has been outlawed? i don't buy it...
The thread's about vaccination, I only commented about guns because the thread starter seems to feel sorry that most Australians don't own them. I am really happy that there are few guns in our society, but I don't think many Americans will understand that view.
I think the word you didn't notice was "need". There are target/sports shooters of course. Feral animals are a huge problem and there are licensed hunters. Farmers need them for the same reason.
Of course there is still violence but for the most part Australia is relatively peaceful. Gun ownership and the right to bear arms has never been part of our constitution. The more guns in society, the more problems, although no doubt people will disagree.
"no doubt people will disagree". yeah, we're bad for that. but one does not need to be disagreeable to disagree. i see points made on both sides of this argument when it crops up. i always go with the side of freedom...if the evidence ever amounts to more on the other side, i am capable of reassessing my position. not seeing it yet.
As an American commenting on Australian politics.....
Australian government officials don't seem as hell-bent on controlling as much of the citizens' lives as American politicians do. I could be wrong, of course. Probably am.....
But, in my view, our (the US) 2nd Amendment were rights guaranteed to us, the citizen, as to deter from government overreach. (Which WAS a problem when we were governed by the British) Where as, Australia was founded as, more or less, a prison colony for British rule, so, of course, they were not allowed such (gun) rights. If they were, their conditions might have started out a bit better if there were some that could fight fire with fire, if you will.
Not to mention in WWII, the Japanese felt a ground assault on America was a "bad idea" because, their documented thoughts were "In America, behind every blade of grass, there is a gun." (proven history)
As we see in many countries, when the populous forms no credible resistance, the government sees that as opportunity for overreach. For example, I think situations would be different in, say, Venezuela, or North Korea, or even Russia, if everyone had a protected right to own firearms if they chose to do so.
While its admirable that Australia and New Zealand can (appear to) hold it together and their politicians don't seem to overreach, there is nothing guaranteeing the citizenry that it wont happen in the future. If they choose to do so, they have no real ability for the people to stop them. They (the government) have all the weapons.
To me, with the problems that guns cause in America, the WIDE majority of gun owners are law abiding and upstanding people.
The world only hears about the bad ones.
If guns, themselves, were the issue the US would be a blood bath. There are, literally, tens of MILLIONS of guns/gun owners in the US. But we only hear about the lunatics, gangbangers, and violent (unlawful) gun owners.
Just some thoughts from an American. Your opinions, of course, will vary, with countries of origin.
-cap
And I should know better than mentioning guns on an international forum full of US citizens. Last time I did this I swear I got stalked by about 20 likely NRA members.
nra members are pussies who represent firearms owners about as well as republicans/democrats do upholding freedom/the Constitution.
I have owned firearms for many years. Only had to use one in self defense a couple of times and in one case for example, I was on crutches in my home during a power outage when a very large fellow began entering thru my glass Fla room . I was essentially helpless cept my one hand held and fired a .45 to which the sob was allowed to escape and probably rob somebody else but no way was I in any danger.
Few gurls from next door then came over to "make sure I was ok" and discovering I was absolutely "ok" decided to spend most of the night making sure that continued
Ahhh Ft Lauderdale
You've hit the nail on the head when you talk of historical differences. We never had a war of independence. The 2nd amendment was no doubt seen as necessary at the time in US history. The George Washington quote last page was certainly relevant in it's historical context.
The majority of gun owners here are also law abiding citizens. There was a major crack down on guns following an infamous massacre. A gun buy back scheme followed and it seems most Australians support this. Today it's pretty hard to get a gun license, but of course there are guns on the black market.
I think it was last year that an Australian citizen moved over to neighbouring New Zealand to commit a massacre because he had difficulty getting the guns here. At least that's my understanding.
+1 for supporting the right to bear arms but..... but as what you say here......you have a somewhat different way of defining freedom
That's fine. If the majority of people support it, that's the power of democracy. I respect their (your) power to do so.
Albeit, I may not agree. Massacres are stopped (or deterred) by people with guns, so, its a bit of a catch-22 situation. I pray the people of Australia are not put into any positions that make them regret that choice. But, again, I pray the Aussies stay peaceful and unimpeded in their quest for the society they want to live in. Hell, I admire that.
Therein lies the issue. If people are hell-bent on doing harm, they will find a way to do so.
Good conversation, so far. Its rare we have such discussions without the hard-cores from either fringe getting involved.
-cap
nra members are pussies who represent firearms owners about as well as republicans/democrats do upholding freedom/the Constitution.
only mildly insulting to a decades old NRA member.
I never force my views on gun rights on anyone. I just don't appreciate "anti-gunners" forcing their views on me.
I served my country. I enjoy firearms. I cant tell you how many people that thought they were anti-gun that I took trap/skeet shooting that absolutely LOVED it, and came to understand a non-douchebag view of gun ownership.
You choose to exercise your right to bear arms? cool with me.
You choose not to exercise your right to bear arms? cool with me.
I love you no matter your position. And, as long as I don't get force fed opinions, I reciprocate.
-cap
You are right in that if people really want to do harm they will find a way. The thing that kicked off the gun clampdown was the Port Arthur Massacre (at a famous historical site). The thing that got me was the speed with which this happened. You could argue that if citizens had guns this could have been halted earlier, however I'm not convinced. My understanding is that the sort of weapon he used is completely banned now. An exert from an article about it;
Bryant killed 12 people in 15 seconds.
On the gravel path outside the cafe Kingston tried to herd people who thought the gunshots were part of a historical re-enactment up the garden and out of range. He knew he couldn’t go back inside. “You don’t get a second chance with a gun like that,” Kingston says.
Bryant moved towards the gift shop in the next 75 seconds, killing another eight people. In little over half an hour the death toll would be 35, with 23 wounded. It became the worst single-person mass shooting in Australia’s history; and is still the third worst recorded worldwide.
The gun was an AR-15 rifle with a 30-shot magazine. Bryant exchanged it for a semi-automatic .308 FN rifle he had stowed in the boot of his car. Both were then legal in Tasmania,
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...lia-made-gun-control-happen-after-port-arthur
CaptainDankness
Well-known member
My state is now saying something about being able to give you a $1,000-2,000 fine per day, for not following the Covid19 guidelines.
All they have to do is make it a mandatory vaccine and you'll be forced to take it unless you can pay $365,000 per year. Lol
But all they have to do is be offer a stimulus check to take the vaccine and we will probably reach heard immunity. Lol, shit I might do it for $1,200, if Bill Gates takes it first. Lol
All they have to do is make it a mandatory vaccine and you'll be forced to take it unless you can pay $365,000 per year. Lol
But all they have to do is be offer a stimulus check to take the vaccine and we will probably reach heard immunity. Lol, shit I might do it for $1,200, if Bill Gates takes it first. Lol
