What's new
  • Please note members who been with us for more than 10 years have been upgraded to "Veteran" status and will receive exclusive benefits. If you wish to find out more about this or support IcMag and get same benefits, check this thread here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

The Clear .............Thread!

mobin

Member
How do you not get the stank to end up in the distillate? It's this nasty smokie smell that just gets into everything the distillation head, receiving flasks, vacuum lines, and end product.

Is it a terpene that I collected too early or is it from over-cooking the flask. It seems like my main body is coming out late (250-280c). I don't know if it's our vac (can only get down to 0.7torr).


in my experience you gotta get more vac than that. 500mtorr would be better.

The lower the vac, the lower the temps, the better the separation, the less degradation the better the distillate.

what kinda pump you got? how's the oil condition? trap of any sorts?

I got that nasty burnt cedar smell when i tried running with a huge vac leak and a bad gauge.

got my pump dialed in, joints cleaned up, fresh lines and pump oil....

the distillate just flowed :D

2vwy4pg.jpg
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
in my experience you gotta get more vac than that. 500mtorr would be better.

The lower the vac, the lower the temps, the better the separation, the less degradation the better the distillate.

what kinda pump you got? how's the oil condition? trap of any sorts?

I got that nasty burnt cedar smell when i tried running with a huge vac leak and a bad gauge.

got my pump dialed in, joints cleaned up, fresh lines and pump oil....

the distillate just flowed :D

View Image

Good point! We get the best results between around 50 and about 300 microns/millitorr, depending on what stage of the process. Deeper vacuum, less heat, and less issue with "burnt" popcorn flavor.

A better option than masking it afterwards with added flavors.
 
Thanks guys I thought it was the vac. It's just a best value rs3. I'm looking at a welch 1400 this today.

I've done about three runs getting this crap out each time. Is there anyway to re-distill that stuff and removing the smell. I got about 25ml of it I don't want it to go to waste but I can't smoke this crap just smelling it makes me want to yack.
 

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
^
^^
^^^
^^^^

Nice to see some vacuum depth figures. Here again is the table of estimated Bp's of THC under vacuum - which is obviously incorrect, anyone unselfish enough with their knowledge and time to provide real data?

GW made it clear 50 micron is achievable, what I'd do if I thought I needed to get down to that deep a level is to first check out my pump by connecting it directly to the sensor head of a micron meter, and then discover where the unwanted molecules are entering the full system, i.e., anything not glass, hard metal, or in the case of seals, Teflon/PTFE will most likely continue to off gas forever.

Pic of my Robinair 15500 two stage rotary vane vacuum pump (rated at 5 CFM/35 microns) pulling down to the 13 micron level. I'm at 1424 feet above sea level (in case you believe the BS about your pump not pulling as well at elevations above sea level...) The micron meter shown is a Yellow Jacket 69075.

Third pic is page 35, 2.4.2 Outgassing, Basic Vacuum Technology, Chambers/Fitch/Halliday, 2nd edition 1998.
 

Attachments

  • Scan028A.jpg
    Scan028A.jpg
    82.7 KB · Views: 21
  • 008A.jpg
    008A.jpg
    37.3 KB · Views: 22
  • IMG_20161008_0001.jpg
    IMG_20161008_0001.jpg
    144.5 KB · Views: 20
Last edited:

hash head

Member
so I have a vp4d its rated to 10 micron, but its only 4 cfm.. I know a lot of people use the edwards and welch pumps, but could this pump be feasible? vp4d?
 

mobin

Member
i've had great successes with the welch 1400 and 1405s. Lookin to try my hand at a 1397 soon for fun.

I like rebuilding small engines so I have fun makin the jacked up ones work for cheap.
I got a lot of college surplus parts for welch stuff so it keeps me busy.

get a welch, clean out the oil and it will probably be good for your needs.

the two units i currently am working on we neglected for years and left with sludge for oil. Trap? Never on these...and with some fresh black gold oil and 15-30 mircons plugged off is easy. i see under 100 in the glass without much effort. ptfe tape and silicone grease.

As long as the vanes in the pumps weren't damaged they'll be ample to pull a good deep vac reliably.

get one and do a shaft seal and do a float/exhaust valve and see what you're gauge reads.

my current 1400 was labeled with a robinaire sticker over the welch plate....good score
 
Well I picked up a welch 1400 yesterday ($500). The seller said it was new old stock, never used. I brought it home filled it up with oil and she seemed to work pretty good.


I don't have the correct T fitting to hook my CPS vac gauge up to it, so I just left the gauge on my og Best vacs rs3 and then hooked up the line to the welch. kicked the welch on to read the vac guage. Kind of janky but it worked.


It got down to 0.06tor/ 60micron in a few min but I need to wait until I get the correct fitting to really confirm its ultimate vacuum.


Mobin is the black gold oil better than others? is there a weight/grade I need to get?
 
hash head Do you have a vac guage? you need one to see what its actually pulling. If your pump can and IS pulling the system down to 10microns then that is the levels ive heard you want to be at. The vac gauges are expensive but they are essential to troubleshoot and verify the state of the system. I got one of the lower end ones CPS vg200. We've murdered three runs trying to do them without having a vac guage hoping were where we needed to be in terms of vacuum but each time we smoked/burnt the product. Hopefully this new vac pump will solve our problems.
 

mobin

Member
Well I picked up a welch 1400 yesterday ($500). The seller said it was new old stock, never used. I brought it home filled it up with oil and she seemed to work pretty good.


I don't have the correct T fitting to hook my CPS vac gauge up to it, so I just left the gauge on my og Best vacs rs3 and then hooked up the line to the welch. kicked the welch on to read the vac guage. Kind of janky but it worked.


It got down to 0.06tor/ 60micron in a few min but I need to wait until I get the correct fitting to really confirm its ultimate vacuum.


Mobin is the black gold oil better than others? is there a weight/grade I need to get?

Black gold is cheap. Kinda clear so its kinda good. But its cheap and when you're cleanin a pump cheap oil is good. That pump will pull 0.0001 torr capped off.

They say duo seal oil should be used, i ordered a quart to see how it works. Cost as much as a gallon of black gold but I wanted to see if the quality was better.

Vacuum pump oil is just fractioned mineral oil. Itd be nice to get my shit together and make my own.
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I use Black Gold in our 1405 to good effect.
 

mobin

Member
I use Black Gold in our 1405 to good effect.


im doin a heads up test on the duoseal oil vs the jb black gold right now!

ill report back with my findings.

The welch oil is definitely far clearer, i'm hoping that will equate to some better numbers at blank off.

I shall see if the price difference will be a get what you pay for kinda deal.
 

mobin

Member
got down to the same rating so far. ....no performance increase thus far on the welch duo seal oil......
 

mobin

Member
Not much, once you have enough.

would you say greater cfm could equate to the reaction point happening sooner, thus enabling faster run times with less degradation?

or could too great of cfm rating pull desired components into the cold trap/vac oil/exhaust?
 

Gray Wolf

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
would you say greater cfm could equate to the reaction point happening sooner, thus enabling faster run times with less degradation?

or could too great of cfm rating pull desired components into the cold trap/vac oil/exhaust?

You have a given volume to evacuate and have to overcome leak rates. A larger pump will get you there faster, but pump down isn't typically the longest time consumer.

Higher cfm has the same amount of air to evacuate, and vacuum levels achieved are the same.

Port velocities may get higher, so anything present is more likely to be aspirated.

What are you evacuating?
 

mobin

Member
You have a given volume to evacuate and have to overcome leak rates. A larger pump will get you there faster, but pump down isn't typically the longest time consumer.

Higher cfm has the same amount of air to evacuate, and vacuum levels achieved are the same.

Port velocities may get higher, so anything present is more likely to be aspirated.

What are you evacuating?


a simple shortpath apparatus.
 
Quick question regarding vacuum.
I just set up my welch 1400 and CPSvg200 guage up to the distillation apparatus. The max vacuum I could pull is 600micron with material in the round bottom (no heat). I then isolated the distillation head and I was easily able to down to 30micron.
Is the fluid boiling in the flask not allowing the vacuum to pull down. Keep in mind there is no heating going on and I fully removed the heat probe/thermometer adapter and plugged it. All joints are clean and greased.

How do you guys pull 30microns on a boiling flask.

Also what type of heat probe adapters are you guys using that don't leak any vacuum? Rubber septum?
 

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
^ You say no heat, and it's boiling at the 600 micron level... comes to mind, exactly what component is boiling? Unlikely it's the cannabinoids, did you first winterize, and then carefully pull off the solvent along with the terpenes?
 
It's an ethanol extraction that we just reduce to about 100ml so it's just slightly viscous, so we can work with it and pour in into the flask. So it's more than likely ethanol boiling at room temp.
 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top