Lots of vapor vith the Volcano but very little effect, wtf ?

Truthman,
I understand vaporizors may well deliver more THC from a half gram bud then a bong or joint, but it does not deliver the dose in a single hit like a bong, because of this the vaporizor is different, and not what many are looking for specially for recreational, for medical it works fine for most folks, better for many. I have filled a volcano really full, had the temps way up high and I never ever got a hit that was as good as a bong, what can I say? I can't even take all the vapor produced in a single breath there is too much air, like I can easy with a bong.
I understand that when I smoke my resin in a bong I am slowly vaping the first 3/4 by holding the heat a bit further from the bowl, and then when it stops bubbling combusting the last bit.

-SamS

Truthman said:

That depends on the temperature you're using. With a lighter, of course it will be in one hit because the temperature is so high, but that is also a bad thing as a good amount of the cannabinoids will be burned. With a vaporizer you just up the temperature to 430f, don't crowd the bowl so more air can get around it, and you will release all of the thc in one hit also. This depends on what vaporizer you use also, but I don't feel like going into that. You get the point. The problem is most people think because they use half a gram when they smoke they need that much when they vape, but because it's so pure you need less. This also helps to keep the temperature accurate within the bowl.

The same thing applies to smoking. You will notice if you don't torch a bowl, but let heat float above it, and inhale at a nice slow rate, you get more flavor, and more high. This is because you aren't burning as much substances as you are when you torch it, and get a cherry going real fast. A vaporizer is even better because the heat is stable and accurate, but you have to know what temperature you're working with or you may not even release any thc.

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Long term volcano user here. I run the classic at 6 and the digi at 380. No problem getting my mind into the clouds and you cant beat the taste.
I prefer vaping over bong loads, although I'll never pass the opportunity to take a good rip to make my forehead sweat and feel like my brain has iced over. Two different cannabis experiences.

Truthman said:

You saw what you wanted to see. I still don't get why he chose to use flash points, and anyone with some idea on flash points would think the same thing. Do what you want, because even if you were proven wrong, you won't admit it. You are on a crusade to make vaporizing look bad. I also noticed how you didn't mention the study I posted which was from a UNIVERSITY IN THE NETHERLANDS.

I don't just vaporize for health but to get a nice pure flavor, as well as a nice clean high. I realize vaporizing isn't for everyone. Some people just want a quick, rush high and don't want to learn how to use something. Then there are people like me who don't mind taking time to learn something new, and invest in a quality product to get a better return. I would rather spend money on a high quality vaporizer then glass, and people spend $500-up easily on some glass, yet they complain about spending that on a vaporizer. I guess this is just one of the things that separate people in the cannabis scene, and shows we aren't all the same.

Do what you want, I'm done going through the same thing over, and over.

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Unless I misread you, why do you think it is somehow better to smoke vaporizors? And the people that don't are somehow lazy or unable to learn the new better way? What if they really just don't like them?
In the very early 80's when there were no vaporizors me and a friend came up with the very first one ever built, in Santa Cruz, I know vaporizors for a very long time, and have several patents on the subject. But I don't use them to get high, it is not my cup of tea...
I prefer dry sift resin as then I get all the taste's and none of the contaminates like dirt, leaves, resin stems, etc. I know I am smoking and I know vaping is better for my health, but in 30 years of vaping I have never had a vaped hit that really turns my crank, what can I say...
I do use vaporizors for science work like comparing the effects of different Cannabinoids and terpenes, it is great for that, can't be beat.
As for taste, the best to me is dry sift resin of the right variety, but it does not vape worth shit, the volcano vape will not clear the screens or steel liquid pads and it mixes the vape with way to much air, for me.

I also saw a few people post on how to get the maximum CBD or CBN, first of all good luck finding CBD unless you have a CBD rich variety, the same with CBN, it is not even made by the plant it is old broken down Cannabinoids, like THC. But if you want CBN just find a high THC variety and leave it out to the air and light for a year or two and most or lots of the THC will be CBN.


-SamS

I'm a volcano user and the only problems I have come across these past 4 years vaping is a dirty chamber screen, too full chamber, too high/low temps. and sticky bags and other parts.

The volcano gives the best high at 6-7 on a classic model, and the chamber shouldn't be stuffed with herbs. If you put the chamber on the vape and turn on the airflow you should see vapor rising in less than 5 seconds, otherwise the airflow is insufficient imo.

Could it be that the brain chemistry has adapted to a certain amount of cannabinoids that you have smoked from bongs and joints all the years, and will take some time before your chemistry 'gets' what your vape is trying to achieve. Fun speculating, humans are very adaptive in general..

Cannabis is a learned high, that is why so many people say they don't get high the first time they smoke.
That said, I have consumed Cannabis via vaporizors for 30 years, thousands of times, so I don't think that is my problem, I think the core is I get much more THC in a single hit smoked vs vaped, important for recreational users maybe not for medical.

-SamS

Suspect said:

Could it be that the brain chemistry has adapted to a certain amount of cannabinoids that you have smoked from bongs and joints all the years, and will take some time before your chemistry 'gets' what your vape is trying to achieve. Fun speculating, humans are very adaptive in general..

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Sam_Skunkman said:

Cannabis is a learned high, that is why so many people say they don't get high the first time they smoke.
That said, I have consumed Cannabis via vaporizors for 30 years, thousands of times, so I don't think that is my problem, I think the core is I get much more THC in a single hit smoked vs vaped, important for recreational users maybe not for medical.

-SamS

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What about when in the rare occasions that you smoke weed do you prefer the bong as well for that ? I think hash is better smoked as well.

Sam_Skunkman said:

Truthman,
I understand vaporizors may well deliver more THC from a half gram bud then a bong or joint, but it does not deliver the dose in a single hit like a bong, because of this the vaporizor is different, and not what many are looking for specially for recreational, for medical it works fine for most folks, better for many. I have filled a volcano really full, had the temps way up high and I never ever got a hit that was as good as a bong, what can I say? I can't even take all the vapor produced in a single breath there is too much air, like I can easy with a bong.
I understand that when I smoke my resin in a bong I am slowly vaping the first 3/4 by holding the heat a bit further from the bowl, and then when it stops bubbling combusting the last bit.

-SamS

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You can get everything in one hit if you use a vaporizer that allows you to inhale a hit with your lungs as you can control how much air is mixing with the vapor, and uses a whip or small stem. In fact you can get more in one hit then you would if you used a bong, and smoking if, you used something like the mflb as it is small and requires very little air to be needed to extract the cannabinoids. The volcano does allow more air than I would like but, it's still good enough for people who don't mind clean hits.

Sam_Skunkman said:

Unless I misread you, why do you think it is somehow better to smoke vaporizors? And the people that don't are somehow lazy or unable to learn the new better way? What if they really just don't like them?
In the very early 80's when there were no vaporizors me and a friend came up with the very first one ever built, in Santa Cruz, I know vaporizors for a very long time, and have several patents on the subject. But I don't use them to get high, it is not my cup of tea...
I prefer dry sift resin as then I get all the taste's and none of the contaminates like dirt, leaves, resin stems, etc. I know I am smoking and I know vaping is better for my health, but in 30 years of vaping I have never had a vaped hit that really turns my crank, what can I say...
I do use vaporizors for science work like comparing the effects of different Cannabinoids and terpenes, it is great for that, can't be beat.
As for taste, the best to me is dry sift resin of the right variety, but it does not vape worth shit, the volcano vape will not clear the screens or steel liquid pads and it mixes the vape with way to much air, for me.

I also saw a few people post on how to get the maximum CBD or CBN, first of all good luck finding CBD unless you have a CBD rich variety, the same with CBN, it is not even made by the plant it is old broken down Cannabinoids, like THC. But if you want CBN just find a high THC variety and leave it out to the air and light for a year or two and most or lots of the THC will be CBN.


-SamS

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No disrespect, but vaporizer were horrible back then compared to now, and even now a lot of them don't hold temperature well or have an accurate temperature. There are only a few that do their job properly. My first one was the vaporizer with a big fish bowl on top of a big heating element. It was not good at all, but I didn't give up on vaporizers, I just looked for better designs because the technique itself is nice. A lot of people don't want to go through that, they just want a quick, adrenaline rushed buzz, that they are used to which you will get from smoking, and collecting glass bongs. It is very hard to change a lot of people especially when you tell them they have to relearn some things they have been doing for years. Only a few people do it. Why do you think it takes so long for societies to change?. It's because most people do the same things they have been doing for years, and only a few will bring about new ideas to be done. Then the people after them will catch on to it, and expand it.

As far as CBD, and CBN there are a lot of strains in the U.S. that have tested high in CBD, at least in dispensaries. I remember when you used to say that years ago, and it was true to an extent, because it has been shown the type of nutrients you feed the plant will give high or low CBD , but now you can find strains that have been tested and shown to have CBD . You can go to nugporn on youtube to see more about this.

CBN, is cool if kept low, because it helps keep the high a little more relaxing. I just don't want too much of it as it can be too lethargic.

Truthman said:

No disrespect, but vaporizer were horrible back then compared to now, and even now a lot of them don't hold temperature well or have an accurate temperature. There are only a few that do their job properly. My first one was the vaporizer with a big fish bowl on top of a big heating element. It was not good at all, but I didn't give up on vaporizers, I just looked for better designs because the technique itself is nice. A lot of people don't want to go through that, they just want a quick, adrenaline rushed buzz, that they are used to which you will get from smoking, and collecting glass bongs. It is very hard to change a lot of people especially when you tell them they have to relearn some things they have been doing for years. Only a few people do it. Why do you think it takes so long for societies to change?. It's because most people do the same things they have been doing for years, and only a few will bring about new ideas to be done. Then the people after them will catch on to it, and expand it.

As far as CBD, and CBN there are a lot of strains in the U.S. that have tested high in CBD, at least in dispensaries. I remember when you used to say that years ago, and it was true to an extent, because it has been shown the type of nutrients you feed the plant will give high or low CBD , but now you can find strains that have been tested and shown to have CBD . You can go to nugporn on youtube to see more about this.

CBN, is cool if kept low, because it helps keep the high a little more relaxing. I just don't want too much of it as it can be too lethargic.

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My first electric vaporizor in the early 80's was a big water pipe with a paint stripper heat gun, but I had tried the almost vaporizors like the TILT sold in the 70's, or Jamaican steamers used for decades with hot coals suppling the hot air.
As for people changing to use vaporizors, you presume that they are better for all people? I do not, I really do not like them at all for recreational use and I differ when you think it is because I use it wrong, Can you accept that some people like different strokes?
Yes now it is possible to find varieties with CBD if you look hard.
As for CBN, I would never want it added to THC, it spoils the effects of THC that I like, the I am so high it makes most people feel paranoid or white and shaky, I like it, I want zero CBN, zero CBD, zero THCV, as well as zero terpenes that do not contribute to the effects I like, and lots of the terpenes that do...
I understand that different folk like different smokes, both for medical and recreational use, and I am in favor of that, and I know that people will always prefer different effects, different tastes, for different end uses, to be delivered many different ways. I have my preferences but they are no more sacrosanct then anyone else's. My goal is that each user can find the Cannabis product that they prefer to be delivered via any way they like, eaten, smoked, vaporized, what anyone likes is what is best for them.
That said, I know what I like, dry sift...
-SamS

Sam_Skunkman said:

My first electric vaporizor in the early 80's was a big water pipe with a paint stripper heat gun, but I had tried the almost vaporizors like the TILT sold in the 70's, or Jamaican steamers used for decades with hot coals suppling the hot air.
As for people changing to use vaporizors, you presume that they are better for all people? I do not, I really do not like them at all for recreational use and I differ when you think it is because I use it wrong, Can you accept that some people like different strokes?
Yes now it is possible to find varieties with CBD if you look hard.
As for CBN, I would never want it added to THC, it spoils the effects of THC that I like, the I am so high it makes most people feel paranoid or white and shaky, I like it, I want zero CBN, zero CBD, zero THCV, as well as zero terpenes that do not contribute to the effects I like, and lots of the terpenes that do...
I understand that different folk like different smokes, both for medical and recreational use, and I am in favor of that, and I know that people will always prefer different effects, different tastes, for different end uses, to be delivered many different ways. I have my preferences but they are no more sacrosanct then anyone else's. My goal is that each user can find the Cannabis product that they prefer to be delivered via any way they like, eaten, smoked, vaporized, what anyone likes is what is best for them.
That said, I know what I like dry sift...
-SamS

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To each his own, but if every vaporizer someone uses doesn't do it's job correctly or you use it wrong you really can't say vaporizers aren't good for recreational use because you are basing you assumption off of wrong information. That's all I'm saying.

As far as CBD, in the states in the west, it is not that hard to find. That way of thinking doesn't pertain to us anymore.

Anyway, have fun doing things the way you want. More power to you. Peace out.

I never encountered killer vape hits, till my friend schooled me with his Steinl airgun and his Roor. See the thing about this rig is many vapes the flow is restricted by the size of the hole. The Steinl forces it at you and the 18.8 bong hole allows you to draw as hard as you can. This makes for much more intense vapes than other methods. I have seen people go on reset and lock out with this method. Me, once I coughed from it so hard I threw my back out. I am more cautious of it now, but if I wants the killer vape hits that is the way. Peace GS

Truthman said:

To each his own, but if every vaporizer someone uses doesn't do it's job correctly or you use it wrong you really can't say vaporizers aren't good for recreational use because you are basing you assumption off of wrong information. That's all I'm saying.

As far as CBD, in the states in the west, it is not that hard to find. That way of thinking doesn't pertain to us anymore.

Anyway, have fun doing things the way you want. More power to you. Peace out.

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While I admit I can't seem to get a big enough or concentrated enough hit the real problem is I can't seem to smoke my dry sift resin in a vaporizor, it vapes very poorly it melts into a pool and bubbles but does not finish. Years ago I showed this to the makers of the Volcano and they then came up with their pads a few years later, but putting my dry sift on a pad only helps a little, they are maybe better for liquids.
What use is a device that does not allow me to smoke my favorite Cannabis product? And remember that when I "smoke" my resin more then 3/4 is vaped by the placement of the flame close but not on the resin which allows most of the resin to bubble away until near the end it combusts because I move the heat source closer.
I am not saying my method is superior for everyone, I am saying that vaporizors are no good for me until someone can show me that I can smoke my resin in one, get a big enough hit, and like it better then my Roor resin bong, and no one has done that yet, although many many have tried, including the guys that make the Volcano, and many many other Vaporizors.
I did find one that worked, it was a guy who sold a super strong flashlight that vaporized resin under the light, it did work! Big hits totally vaped.
As for CBD, I suggested to the folks behind the CBD project that they find and make available CBD varieties, which has happened to a degree. While I had suggested high CBD only varieties what has filled the need are CBD/THC varieties, maybe as no one in the USA seems able to breed a high CBD only variety. A high CBD only variety could be hybridized with any desired THC variety to make simple F1 hybrids with a THC/CBD profile,
I can not help but wonder were the CBD/THC varieties consciously bred or just found with the analytical testing being done?
Either way if patients get help it is a step in the right direction...
-SamS

Ok so what it comes down to is personal preference and all other distortions.
We don't have a benchmark item for a Heavy-user World Champion Level Bong King because there probably isn't enough research and knowledge in how the human chemistry and this plant reacts with each other.
I hope you find some use in these pictures below.
Found them once somewhere and I've tried to pass them around whenever we are talking about vaporizing, they're not mine but the right Weed-nerd can probably figure out something for his own temps and preferances.

I did more thinking about this, and I think the reason some don't feel effects from vaporizing like smoking is because they might have a slow metabolism. See with smoking it activates your sympathetic nervous system more then vaping due to the lower oxygen levels and extra irritants. This inturn causes adrenaline to speed up the metabolism allowing cannaninoids to be metabolized easily BUT it will slow down after about 30 mintues and cause thc metabolites to linger around the nerves which causes down regulation of receptors. This is what raises someone's tolerance level.

This is probably why older people who smoke a lot don't take to vaping very well, as well as people who smokw a lot and are not thatphysically active. They have a lot of metabolites circulating in their system and being that gaping doesn't stimulate a strong adrenaline rush, when the cannabinoids get.into their system it doesn't really get used up.due to.having a weak metabolism.

What these people need to do is abstain from cannabis for 3 days and within those 3 days do.some type exercise.that causes you to sweat so you empty out your metabolites as well as stimulate your metabolism. On the 4th day after you do a nice cardiovascular session you should then vape with the advise I posted earlier. This should solve your problem.

There is.more but I'm on a phone and I hate typing long messages with this. See.everyone when I get on a pc.

That resonates with what I've been thinking lately Truthman. Well put sir.

that's probably why i like my vape so much ... i do 30 minutes on the NordicTrack every morning before the first session.

I bet I can take a bigger breath of air and hold it longer then you regardles of your vape use and my "smoking," younger I could hold my breath over 3 minutes and am pretty good today when I freedive. As for a slow metabolism, wtf? So tolerance is mediated by metabolites lingering around the nerves, by any chance to you have a paper that backs this up? Which metabolites? And why does tolerance take time to develop if metabolites are the problem? Don't metabolites cause tolerance from day one?
To me the real problem is that you think that if a person chooses a method other then your preferred method you seem to think they need to change?
I enjoy diversity and would hate to see a world where everyone vaped and used e-cigarettes, I do not smoke tobacco or drink alcohol but I would fight for the right for a person to smoke or drink, I am just this way....
If you think that I have a problem, maybe that is your problem?
When did you first smoke Cannabis at what age how many years ago? Did you smoke or vaporize? How long have you vaporized?

For you to suggest to me to stop smoking to get higher? What a joke, you need to try a hubble bubble with 10 grams of FMCD and they try and say that to me. I doubt you have ever been as high as me, maybe but I doubt it, so for you to be giving me advice to solve my "problem", just seems odd.
I have no problem getting high as I want, zero.
My problem is I don't get very high from vaporizors which I don't like anyway as I can't smoke my high test dry sift in a vaporizor, what should I do smoke something inferior so I can use a vape?
I know you are maybe used to being truthman to the youth and helping them along maybe, but you need to read what I say instead of trying to give me advice that is of no use to me and my dry sift, I can not smoke my dry sift very well in a vaporizor, why would I change to a vaporizor, I do not get it?
I consider dry sift to be the very best Cannabis product on earth, do you really think I should smoke bud or other not as good resin in a vaporizor just to get, according to you, healthy or what?
What can I say?
-SamS

Truthman said:

I did more thinking about this, and I think the reason some don't feel effects from vaporizing like smoking is because they might have a slow metabolism. See with smoking it activates your sympathetic nervous system more then vaping due to the lower oxygen levels and extra irritants. This inturn causes adrenaline to speed up the metabolism allowing cannaninoids to be metabolized easily BUT it will slow down after about 30 mintues and cause thc metabolites to linger around the nerves which causes down regulation of receptors. This is what raises someone's tolerance level.

This is probably why older people who smoke a lot don't take to vaping very well, as well as people who smokw a lot and are not thatphysically active. They have a lot of metabolites circulating in their system and being that gaping doesn't stimulate a strong adrenaline rush, when the cannabinoids get.into their system it doesn't really get used up.due to.having a weak metabolism.

What these people need to do is abstain from cannabis for 3 days and within those 3 days do.some type exercise.that causes you to sweat so you empty out your metabolites as well as stimulate your metabolism. On the 4th day after you do a nice cardiovascular session you should then vape with the advise I posted earlier. This should solve your problem.

There is.more but I'm on a phone and I hate typing long messages with this. See.everyone when I get on a pc.

Click to expand...

Sam_Skunkman said:

I bet I can take a bigger breath of air and hold it longer then you regardles of your vape use and my "smoking," younger I could hold my breath over 3 minutes and am pretty good today when I freedive. As for a slow metabolism, wtf? So tolerance is mediated by metabolites lingering around the nerves, by any chance to you have a paper that backs this up?
To me the real problem is that you think that if a person chooses a method other then your preferred method you seem to think they need to change?

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That's wonderful you can hold air for a long time, want a gold medal? Just joking.

I don't know why you stated that because I was referring to metabolism, not lungs endurance.

Also, here is a study that has shown metabolites effecting tolerance. I can't find the study in depth but, it's a start if you want to learn more on this.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3032669
"A major metabolite of delta 1-tetrahydrocannabinol reduces its cataleptic effect in mice.
Burstein S, Hunter SA, Latham V, Renzulli L.
Abstract

The results described here demonstrate that THC-induced catalepsy in mice can be substantially inhibited by the prior administration of delta 1-THC-7-oic acid, the major metabolite of THC in most species including humans. This raises the possibility that the intensity and duration of action of THC may depend to a large degree on the levels of this metabolite at the sites of action."

Another one from the book, "Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential"

"Tolerance to cannabinoid effects may occur due to pharmacodynamic changes (downregulation and internalization of receptors), or, to a lesser extent, due to pharmacokinetic changes (absorption, metabolism). Down regulation of cannabinoid receptors differs in distinct brain areas and corresponds to the resulting effects. Application of THC over a period of five days decreased specific receptor binding in different receptor sites of the brain ranging from 20 to 60 percent. Since tolerance does not develop to the actions of the acid metabolite THC-COOH (THC-11-oic-acid), some differences in tolerance for different effects may be due to additional non-receptor-mediated effects."

The other reason I think it's this is because when I didn't live a certain way, I found that my metabolism effected damn near everything that gave me pleasure, including cannabis. In fact I remember when I was ultra low in fat, but still working out consistently, I hit a point when I couldn't get high at all. I mean literally one day I could not get high off of herb that did get me high days before. It tripped me out, and I wanted to know what was going on, and I soon realized fat along with aerobics help keep your metabolism going. Resistance training help your body generate more energy so you can get more out of your aerobic training, and therefore a higher metabolism. Just because someone does cardio doesn't necessarily mean they will have a good or strong metabolism. Muscle strength along with diet both play a part. Sweating also plays a part because I learned sitting in an infrared sauna will also help you get higher then normal, and I think it's because you are sweating out your metabolites that effect cannabinoid receptors.

Anyway, I see you are getting sensitive as you usually do when someone doesn't agree with you, so I will stop now before you say something disrespectful, and take this conversation to another place. BYE, BYE.

Don't metabolites cause tolerance from day one?

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excellent question! and, in thinking about it, the immediate effect of metabolites probably explains why when i moderate my intake -- e.g. less herb per session -- allows a better high within 24 hours.

but i hear Sam on the dry shift not being vaporized well in current vapes -- including my own. the only time i can vape kief is when it is well distributed throughout the vial -- not packed, but rather lots of air channels to allow the hot air to fully embrace the kief on all sides.

tough problem ... i'm working on it for my own needs -- i'm thinking layer rather than pile -- maybe a perforated glass slide to hold just a single layer of kief ... just can't get enough kief for necessary testing and development.