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Old 06-06-2018, 05:06 PM #1
stemznseedz
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help me troubleshoot why my first closed loop run failed.

I did a lot of research and was really confident walking into this but boy was I wrong!

equipment list

BVV 1lb apollo with dewaxing column and ball valve
50# butane
6cfm single stage pump.
refrigerant scale

* I pulled a full vac on the system after the material column was loaded.
*i pulled a full vac on the recovery tank before attempting to move over 6lbs of butane.


So my first hurdle was moving over 6lbs of butane to my recovery tank. I put the recovery tank in dry ice and the butane in a 90-degree bath and it was a struggle to get 5lbs over. tons of shaking and a few hours and I got 5lbs (was shooting for 6 but it took so long i gave up).


next, I connected the recovery tank now with 5lbs of gas in it) using it's liquid valve to the top of the extractor. I was low on dry ice so the dewaxing column was like 1/3 the way full of dry ice and I poured in a quart of alcohol.


After an hour I gave up on trying to get all the butane to transfer so I opened the valve to the collection tank from the dewaxing column. 30 min later all the butane still wasn't out the recovery tank.


at this point I gave up and figured fuck it lets recover the butane call this run a lesson and figure it out. 2 hours later I still couldn't get all the butane over to the recovery tank from the 'collection' tank. By 2 hours in I bought 14lbs more dry ice and buried the recovery tank figuring it would help and added 1/2 gal of denatured alcohol. the extractor base was in the 90-degree water. psi was like 40 and stayed their rock solid for hours while the butane stayed actively bubbling but the level didn't seem to go down in the collection tank. another 2 hours and still the same thing so I closed all valves, removed the extractor from the hot water bath and went to bed. When I woke up like 4 hours later the extractor psi was near 0. I tried one more hot water bath on the extractor base and the recovery tank was still ice cold but I was still getting the same type of results. At this point, I gave up took off the hoses opened the valves and let the expensive ass butane go in the air just wanting this run over.


Why am I having such issues moving the butane? Did I cause a vapor lock and if so how do you resolve that? What about a nitrogen assist that's what I was recommended but I don't see people running those on tutorials and they do just fine, in fact, one guy recovered in real time in 7 min doing it how I did it.

I've got a 3 grand open blast tube until you guys point me into the right direction lol.

Last edited by stemznseedz; 06-06-2018 at 05:19 PM..
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:13 PM #2
stemznseedz
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one thing I know I did wrong was i vac'ed the system from the top so the hose connecting the system to the butane tank was not vac'ed. could not vacuum that one 48" line cause problems moving the butane into the system?
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:37 PM #3
littlepookie
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It's really hard to understand what your problem is from this large post.

Firstly it should only take a few minutes to move five pounds of butane out of a pressurized cylinder with a diptube unless you're boiling it into a gas..
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:25 AM #4
stemznseedz
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Fair statement. I planned on taking another shot tomorrow and making a few changes. I just hate wasting an lb of material at a time refining the process I should have bought an additional material column for this reason alone.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:28 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stemznseedz View Post
I did a lot of research and was really confident walking into this but boy was I wrong!

equipment list

BVV 1lb apollo with dewaxing column and ball valve
50# butane
6cfm single stage pump.
refrigerant scale

* I pulled a full vac on the system after the material column was loaded.
*i pulled a full vac on the recovery tank before attempting to move over 6lbs of butane.


So my first hurdle was moving over 6lbs of butane to my recovery tank. I put the recovery tank in dry ice and the butane in a 90-degree bath and it was a struggle to get 5lbs over. tons of shaking and a few hours and I got 5lbs (was shooting for 6 but it took so long i gave up).


next, I connected the recovery tank now with 5lbs of gas in it) using it's liquid valve to the top of the extractor. I was low on dry ice so the dewaxing column was like 1/3 the way full of dry ice and I poured in a quart of alcohol.


After an hour I gave up on trying to get all the butane to transfer so I opened the valve to the collection tank from the dewaxing column. 30 min later all the butane still wasn't out the recovery tank.


at this point I gave up and figured fuck it lets recover the butane call this run a lesson and figure it out. 2 hours later I still couldn't get all the butane over to the recovery tank from the 'collection' tank. By 2 hours in I bought 14lbs more dry ice and buried the recovery tank figuring it would help and added 1/2 gal of denatured alcohol. the extractor base was in the 90-degree water. psi was like 40 and stayed their rock solid for hours while the butane stayed actively bubbling but the level didn't seem to go down in the collection tank. another 2 hours and still the same thing so I closed all valves, removed the extractor from the hot water bath and went to bed. When I woke up like 4 hours later the extractor psi was near 0. I tried one more hot water bath on the extractor base and the recovery tank was still ice cold but I was still getting the same type of results. At this point, I gave up took off the hoses opened the valves and let the expensive ass butane go in the air just wanting this run over.


Why am I having such issues moving the butane? Did I cause a vapor lock and if so how do you resolve that? What about a nitrogen assist that's what I was recommended but I don't see people running those on tutorials and they do just fine, in fact, one guy recovered in real time in 7 min doing it how I did it.

I've got a 3 grand open blast tube until you guys point me into the right direction lol.

What mix are you using?
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:58 PM #6
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I attached pictures of the system and the recovery tank.

"1LB Apollo Top Fill Closed Loop Extractor

Details

***Note: Solvent not included with systems unless ordered separately. Any order with butane WILL NOT SHIP EXPEDITED.***

DISCLAIMER: This unit is intended for LEGAL purposes only, to be used in accordance with local laws and ordinances. Use only in extremely well ventilated areas. Check with your local fire marshal for guidance when operating indoors

Closed Loop Reclamation Extraction System
(Comes with 1 yr. Limited warranty)

Please Read Optional Upgrades Section for Clarification on System Upgrades

The 1lb closed loop hydrocarbon extraction system performs botanical extraction within a sealed, vacuumed system. Utilizing a top-fill input, solvent washes thru the material column, collecting oils as it passes over the material. Oil bearing solvent is collected in the collection base under the material column. Once collected, solvent is distilled and recovered, leaving the oils in the collection base. This is a passive unit that utilizes pressure differences created by manipulating temperature to move solvent. This unit can be upgraded into an Active recovery unit by purchasing the upgrade kit. https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/clasu-k-trs21.html.

Unit Includes:

6"x6" Welded Bottom Base
6"x6" Open Spool
Assembled 6" extractor lid
3"x24" Material column with reducer & top cap
Mastercool 6LB Solvent Recovery Tank
(1) 1/4" 48" FJIC Stainless Steel hose
(1) 1/4" 60" FJIC Stainless Steel hose
(1) 1/4" FJIC HVAC hose
Standard pressure single pin clamp
Extra of each type of gasket
Instruction Manual

Optional Upgrades:

System Valves: Upgrades our Standard valves to High Quality USA Made SSP Instrumention or Swagelok fully encapsulated mini ball valves ***Note: Swagelok valves upgrade has a possible lead time of 3-5 days***

Base: Choose to upgrade the standard welded bottom base to include a 6" splatter platter. Or choose the fully jacketed option which allows circulation of warm fluid around the base for faster/more efficient recovery.

Dewaxing Column: This upgrade replaces the standard 3”x24” spool with its dewaxing sleeved counterpart. The sleeve is packed with dry ice to freeze the material, stopping the waxes and lipids from being extracted.

Ball Valve: Adds a 1.5" inline ball valve, clamp and gasket. This is HIGHLY recommended to be paired with dewaxing columns
Inline Sight Glass: Adds a 1.5" inline sight glass. This is used to see solvent drop from the material column into the collection base.

High Pressure Clamps: Replaces standard clamps with the high pressure variants. ***Note: If you select high pressure clamp upgrade, you must also select the high pressure option with the other applicable upgrades to receive a system fully outfited with high pressure clamps. Upgrades come standard with single pin clamps***

Quick Disconnects: Replaces JIC fittings with a quick release option by either SSP or Parker.

Specifications:

3"x 24" 304 Stainless Steel Material Column-1lb capacity (450g)
316 Stainless Steel Fully Encapsulated Miniature Ball Valves
System Rated to 150PSI
Multiple 37 degree FJIC port connections
304 Stainless Steel Base Container 6" diameter by 12" tall
Tri-Clamps at all interfaces make for a high pressure/standard pressure, easy clean unit
BUNA-N Gaskets are designed for Oil Processing Temp range -40-200F, and have superior solvent resistance
Base unit Maximum Capacity: 395 cubic inches, (6.472 Liters)
Construction: All components made of 304 Stainless Steel.
Max Vacuum -29.9inHg
High Polish Interior"

https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/1lb-ap...extractor.html



"Mastercool #15 Solvent Recovery Tank. Holds 6~lbs of Solvent."

https://www.bestvaluevacs.com/master...very-tank.html



You can 'burp' the system to the outside to remove the butane/air vapor and start again.

I know this is highly unlikely, but could their possibly be Schrader valve depressors in any of the connectors? I attached a picture of a connector with depressor, the depressor is unscrewed to remove it.

Verify the identity of the vapor and dip tubes, the color coding is sometimes reversed.
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:46 PM #7
littlepookie
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Wait, are you even connected to the diptube feed line on your storage hydrocarbon tank?

Try not putting the tank in dry ice. It's probably something obviously dumb like the above that you're not realizing.
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Old 06-10-2018, 06:47 PM #8
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5lbs of butane probably wouldn't come out of the storage tank anyone if you just stuck it in dry ice, needs pressure to push it out.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:45 AM #9
powerbong2000
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run your system without any material a few times till you get the hang of it. make sure when you are trying to transfer liquid to be using the dip tube on whatever tank you are transferring from. If your recovery tank is cold, you must connect it's vapor port to the vapor port of your warm supply tank to gain head pressure to push the liquid out.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:28 PM #10
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Sounds just like my first go, though I had no trouble distilling solvent, which sounds like something you neglected to do, and is rather necessary.
You sure can and must include all hoses when purging your system of atmosphere.
I faced this same dilemma and learned most everything I now know from Gray Wolf and this site (thanks ya'll).
Here, read this:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352599
One major obstacle we shared was the dewaxing material column. It works too well. It's acting as a cold trap. It needs to be heated... and getting that alcohol/dry ice slurry out of it is ridiculously difficult to recover. I found it impossible, and simply too costly to waste by washing it away with hot water. So I scrapped that method for Gray Wolfs method (explained in the aforementioned link)
I also found passive slow, inefficient, problematic, and most of all costly.
I upgraded to a bidirectional active system utilizing a desiccant dryer (absolutely necessary if reusing solvent. Something BVV didn't tell you, did they?)
My first passive top fill run netted 3.1 grams per ounce (trim) and took from midday to 3am. 😥
My first bidirectional active run took less than 2 hours and netted 5.3 grams per ounce (buds). A lot of that is experience.
I lose about 0.33lbs of solvent because I like to pour off, not scrape off.
If you want to be able to run passively without spending a hundred dollars on dry ice and alcohol every time, trust me, don't fill that dewaxing sleeve with slurry. Instead, pack your column and freeze it. While it's freezing, purge your system. Leave the vacuum pump attached. Quickly assemble your column, open your ball valve and purge the added components. You cannot fill the column with solvent with the ball valve closed unless you have an alternative route for pressure. (like the overflow on bidirectional systems), it needs to be at least cracked.
IMHO spending that much money on a system and running passively is like buying a Ferrari with no motor and pushing it around. Yeah it's a Ferrari, but...
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