VerdantGreen's 104 watt micro grow with custom HG LED (ScrOG)

VerdantGreen · Aug 18, 2010

hi MicroDude - the plants have to be far away away because it is a very bright light source and the buds will suffer from light bleaching if kept too close. also as you move further from the light, the footprint gets bigger and therefore you have more space to grow.

cfls give out bugger-all light so you have to get the buds much closer.

hey verdecielo - hope you enjoy your light as much as i am enjoying mine - im very pleased withe the progress so far.

VG

D9_THC · Aug 22, 2010

VerdantGreen said:
N guano - 4g/litre veg, 2-4g/litre flower (strain dependent)
P guano - 4g/litre veg, 8g/litre flower
Rock phosphate 5g/l
rock potash 5g/l
seaweed meal 5g/l

the i just add water amended to around pH 6 with Citric acid. perhaps a bit of biobizz if they look hungry later on and maybe molasses 1teaspoon/gallon a couple times later on in flower.

Hi VerdantGreen,

Thank you for your grow diaries, they have been an absolute pleasure to read, I have spent countless hours baked, reading and watching your highly successful grows. So much, that I have been inspired to try organic.

I am thinking about copying as close as possible your nutrient/soil recipe for my first organic attempt. However, I cannot get your caveman's guano, but instead can get:
N guano: 10-2-1 ( Mexican Bat Guano, sunleaves)
P guano: 1-10-0.2 (Jamaican Bat Guano, sunleaves) -or- 0.5-12-0.2 (Indonesian Bat Guano, sunleaves)
(not sure which is better Jamaican or Indonesian...)

The question I have for you is, will my grams/liter for guano have to change from your recipe, because sunleaves bat guano has different NPK values than your caveman's guano? I looked up your type of guano, and found that it has NPK of:
N guano: 8-1-1 (caveman's)
P guano: 1-14-? (caveman's)

So, I am not sure if I need to do the following type of conversions for your guano (caveman's) quantities (gr/liter) in order to use this different type of guano (sunleaves).

Conversion example:
Instead of 4g/liter N guano with NPK 8-1-1 (caveman's)
4*8=32
I need N guano NPK 10-2-1 (sunleaves)
32/10 = 3.2g/liter

^So instead of 4g/liter of your guano with NPK 8-1-1, I need 3.2g/liter of guano with NPK 10-2-1? Is this type of conversion for bat guano quantities necessary/correct?

Also, how old do the seedlings need to be before you repot them in your veg mix safely without burning them, can you germinate seeds in it?

Thank you in advance.

verdecielo · Aug 25, 2010

HI VG

anything new??

cheerz

logitach420. · Aug 27, 2010

That custom light copies the configuration of growledhydro's led lights. Not saying that is a bad thing but the 90 degree lens is a wise move along with filling all the space with LEDs. I never understood why there was so much wasted space on HGL boards before.

Wise move on HGL's behalf

As to you good sir, your grows are so awesome. I love your soil mix and plan to try it out.

sx646522 · Aug 27, 2010

logitach420. said:
That custom light copies the configuration of growledhydro's led lights. Not saying that is a bad thing but the 90 degree lens is a wise move along with filling all the space with LEDs. I never understood why there was so much wasted space on HGL boards before.

In a word, thermal management (actually, that's two words...

). Those standard MCPCB LED boards have inadequate heat dissipation as it is, even at nominal ratings with all LED spaces filled. Your junction temperatures (Tj) get too hot which causes a whole host of problems including shortened lifespan, lower residual (end-of-life) lumens, color shifting, lower lumens/watt, and more. Worse for reds than blue or white. Don't believe the spec sheets which list Tj at 25C; that's simply a ratings game. Actual Tj in a board can run 60-80C or more easily. A Red LED can easily lose 35-40%+ of its rated (25C) lumens 'in vivo'.

An LED in every space = not a good idea. The ones using '3W' LEDs in the same board are even worse.

You can control heat much better filling those boards only ~50-60%. I would spread the LEDs out evenly though; putting a 'puck' of 21 together for 'light engines' might make the designer's job easier, but doesn't help heat dissipation for LEDs in the middle of the 'puck'.

A good Chinese fab won't take any more time to build 'em in whatever configuration you use. Using an every-other configuration or close to it on a larger light board is more efficient in terms of 1/r^2 losses, also.

It's also more expensive - which is why most 'manufacturers' don't do it. Most're trying to cram every $$$ out of their customers and could care less if your light under-performs over time. 'Take The Money and Run' before volumes go up and costs have to come down in a few more years.

The flashlight and home-LED lighting companies aren't any better. They take low-bin LEDs and push more amps through them in order to pump enough lumens out - to make up for the fact they're using cheap LEDs in their designs, instead of spending a little more on a good LED in the first place and running them cooler. Bloody con artists making YOU pay for more juice and shorter lifespans. Cheap bastards...

This thing's a computer in a box that emits light instead of processing 0's and 1's - keep it cool. If you wouldn't do it with a laptop, don't do it to one of these!

Heat and humidity - not a good idea. Get good airflow, a line conditioner/surge surpressor, and don't throw 'em around.

And always know what you're buying--!

-SX

VerdantGreen · Aug 29, 2010

hi all ive been away for a week but the plant was fine and has come on great! - looks a little hungry though...

verdecielo - pics as soon as i can

logitach420 - ive never seen the growledhydro lights but i doubt the spectrum/ratios are the same. the layout is hardly a configuration - i just asked for it to be filled wih LED's!

hi sx - much of what you posted is exactly what LEDGirl told me about the heat management of the light when i was discussing it with her. the particular cab it is in was designed for LED and has the intake above the light and the outtake at the bottom which hopefully helps keep it cool. because my space is in a roof, like a 'lean-to' to my bigger cab, i needed a compact light (the taller the cab, the narrower it would have to be). having said that though the plant seems to love it. the 90degree lenses help reduce the intensity and also probably illuminate/penetrate a scrog canopy better.

VG

treefrog · Aug 29, 2010

VerdantGreen said:
hi all ive been away for a week but the plant was fine and has come on great! - looks a little hungry though...

verdecielo - pics as soon as i can

logitach420 - ive never seen the growledhydro lights but i doubt the spectrum/ratios are the same. the layout is hardly a configuration - i just asked for it to be filled wih LED's!

hi sx - much of what you posted is exactly what LEDGirl told me about the heat management of the light when i was discussing it with her. the particular cab it is in was designed for LED and has the intake above the light and the outtake at the bottom which hopefully helps keep it cool. because my space is in a roof, like a 'lean-to' to my bigger cab, i needed a compact light (the taller the cab, the narrower it would have to be). having said that though the plant seems to love it. the 90degree lenses help reduce the intensity and also probably illuminate/penetrate a scrog canopy better.

VG

Hey VG ~ I have a 205 that I've been running for about a month now. I dig it! So do the plants, wow. I wonder if there will ever be a day where I look at those plants and don't giggle about the lack of heat issues.. It's a beautiful thing.

I'm curious about your intake and exhaust, because my cab was originally made for HID, so the ventilation is set up in the traditional manner (passive bottom, active top) With that type of configuration, the exhaust fan is obviously fighting against the LED's fans. The exhaust doesn't need to be going very hard, fortunately, but having it set up so everything is congruent would be ideal. It makes sense to have it reversed like you're doing. I'd never considered that as an option, so bravo for coming up with it! :tiphat:

Anyways, I'm curious about any observations you've made regarding that setup. How are temps? Does the airflow seem to be good with that config?

Thanks m8 ~

VerdantGreen · Aug 29, 2010

D9_THC said:
Hi VerdantGreen,

Thank you for your grow diaries, they have been an absolute pleasure to read, I have spent countless hours baked, reading and watching your highly successful grows. So much, that I have been inspired to try organic.

I am thinking about copying as close as possible your nutrient/soil recipe for my first organic attempt. However, I cannot get your caveman's guano, but instead can get:
N guano: 10-2-1 ( Mexican Bat Guano, sunleaves)
P guano: 1-10-0.2 (Jamaican Bat Guano, sunleaves) -or- 0.5-12-0.2 (Indonesian Bat Guano, sunleaves)
(not sure which is better Jamaican or Indonesian...)

The question I have for you is, will my grams/liter for guano have to change from your recipe, because sunleaves bat guano has different NPK values than your caveman's guano? I looked up your type of guano, and found that it has NPK of:
N guano: 8-1-1 (caveman's)
P guano: 1-14-? (caveman's)

So, I am not sure if I need to do the following type of conversions for your guano (caveman's) quantities (gr/liter) in order to use this different type of guano (sunleaves).

Conversion example:
Instead of 4g/liter N guano with NPK 8-1-1 (caveman's)
4*8=32
I need N guano NPK 10-2-1 (sunleaves)
32/10 = 3.2g/liter

^So instead of 4g/liter of your guano with NPK 8-1-1, I need 3.2g/liter of guano with NPK 10-2-1? Is this type of conversion for bat guano quantities necessary/correct?

Also, how old do the seedlings need to be before you repot them in your veg mix safely without burning them, can you germinate seeds in it?

Thank you in advance.

hi, i reckon you should try your guano at the same doses as mine and go from there. ive used mine at 5 and 10g per litre for N and P guano respectively and thats been fine.

for seedlings i use unferted mix in the first pot and then pot them up into a veg mix after a couple of weeks

D9_THC · Aug 29, 2010

Thank you for your answer VG!

labtec · Aug 30, 2010

VerdantGreen I'm loving your grow. Your led grow chamber design sounds like it works perfect. Keep on rocking it verdant.

VerdantGreen · Aug 30, 2010

hey treefrog, the air intake/exhaust config is working well i think. tbh one of the main reasons why i made it that way is that the cab is a later addition next to my main one that has a hollow floor as part of it's vent system (that was designed for hid, the can filter is in the top). so sucking the air from one hollow floor to another was the best way to incorporate it. i thought it would work well with led's though given the way their integral fans work.

D9 THC - no worries!

thanks for stopping by labtec!

VG

Hammerhead · Aug 30, 2010

Where is the LED thread at now ? do we not have ione anymore

KnightRueben · Aug 30, 2010

Whoa. You sure are making these LED's attractive!

Hard to believe you're growing such large plants with only 100 ish watts. Truly hard to believe.

Nice job!

VerdantGreen · Aug 30, 2010

hi hammerhead if you mean LEDGirl's forum it seems to be locked and i have no idea why.

here is the sharksbreath at around 7 weeks now - 3 or 4 more to go. it has yellowed slightly but been well fed since. looking good i think...

VG

smokinweedgi · Aug 31, 2010

very impressive verdantgreen ,
i am contemplating getting one of these lights myself

just 1 question the light come from the states so are made for 110v?
american power supply do u have a transformer or anything so they work ok in the uk 240v supply?or do you simply change plug

thanks and good luck with yer grows

VerdantGreen · Aug 31, 2010

hi smokin, you just request it with a UK plug and thats how it comes

knightrueben - thanks for the kind words - and keep checking in 'cos im expecting this to fatten up a fair bit more before the chop.

gavin2511 · Aug 31, 2010

loveing your sharksbreath. it will be a nice smoke!!
great work!

Masterlow · Sep 2, 2010

hahaha, those first and second pictures just look like a bud army.
Nice going VG, looks like it'll be an awesome harvest !! :smoke:

Looking forward to seeing her at the end

VerdantGreen · Sep 3, 2010

hey gavin thanks - yeah the sharksbreath is good smoke, quite a heavy hitter

Masterlow - thanks for stopping by

bud army sounds good to me

VG

D9_THC · Sep 4, 2010

VerdantGreen said:
hi, i reckon you should try your guano at the same doses as mine and go from there. ive used mine at 5 and 10g per litre for N and P guano respectively and thats been fine.

for seedlings i use unferted mix in the first pot and then pot them up into a veg mix after a couple of weeks

Hi VG,

I came up with a few more questions for you, if you don't mind. Could you tell me what size containers you use for seedlings (unfertilized mix), and then into what size containers to pot them up into the veg mix? I believe you mentioned that your final pot size is ~15liters for the flower mix.

Thanks in advance.

VerdantGreen's 104 watt micro grow with custom HG LED (ScrOG)

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