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Old 01-28-2018, 08:00 PM #1
St. Phatty
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Question Is the US Economy Shrinking ?

I listen or read lots of Western news media reports about the US economy.

In July 2017, they were reporting a 3/4% quarterly growth, and a 3% annual growth.

(3/4% compounded 4 times is a little more than 3%, but 3% was the number in the news report.)

3% of $17.2 Trillion ... $516 billion.


Then for the time period which I guess might have gone from end-Obama to early-Trump, they reported national borrowing of $666 Billion.

And $4.2 trillion in a year income and payroll taxes. (Could include gas taxes etc.)


Now, imagine if you went into a bank, and took 6 zeroes off the US gov numbers.

One other note, US gov. debt service, is listed as $266 Billion. (from a quick look-up that might be for a time period 3 or 6 months later than the mid-2017 set of numbers.)



Imagine telling this to a bank manager,

"My income is $4.2 Million.
$516,000 of that was actually debt-financed spending, so for most people their income would be $3.684 Million.
But I'm special, so I'm going to put $4.2 Million on the form in the part where you state your income."

"I borrowed $666,000 last year, and only spent $516,000 of it.
My annual debt service cost is $266,000, so it looks like $150,000 of my borrowing last year was to pay the interest on the debt."

"And, I am $20 Million in Debt.
Also, I just picked a huge fight with my biggest banker, a man named Mr. China, whom I owe over $1 Million."

"Mr. Banker, I want you to loan me $925,000 for the next year, and ignore all the other stuff."


I venture to say, most bank managers would avoid lending money to such a client.

What do you think ?


Once again I wonder, why do these concepts apply to personal and corporate economics, but not the US government ?

Obviously part of the answer is, because they can print money, and it would be massively inconvenient & disruptive, to transition to a situation where the US government is solvent.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:10 PM #2
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i like the numbers you present, it's a good way of illustrating some things
but some things just don't compare well
for example, this person would have the ability to print their own money
does change the perspective, not that printing money cures all
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:31 PM #3
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We have more drugs than ever and drug money ain't on record. So I think we are doing just fine.

Not to mention all the people who pocket cash so we don't get raped on taxation. I don't have a bank account and make decent money only tax I pay is property tax so I don't get forced off my land by armed thugs.
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:35 PM #4
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:47 PM #5
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crime, employment, chaos in leadership in america causing the shrink wrap of the usa
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:51 PM #6
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Old 01-28-2018, 10:11 PM #7
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The economy isn't shrinking. The people at the top are siphoning off all the wealth and destroying the middle class and every one else by design.

In 2017, $8 of every $10 of wealth generated in the US went to the top 1%. The bottom 50% of earners saw no increase in wealth. In other words 82% of the wealth generated in the US last year went to the richest people. While worker productivity and corporate profit is at all time highs.

The richest 3 Americans own more wealth than half of the USA.

50% of US wage earners in 2016 made $32,000/yr, barely higher than the poverty line.

The richest 6 people on the planet earth have more wealth than 3.5 billion humans combined.

Capitalism is coming to an end.
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Old 02-01-2018, 10:30 PM #8
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Igrowone nailed it. Governments and people do not function in the same way. Government can always print money to meet an obligation, people can't. The US has an unlimited credit line as we will, sans grandstanding shit in Congress, always be able to pay those obligations. Debt isn't tied to inflation rates, it is sort of like buying a house with a fixed rate mortgage, you have to pay a certain number of dollars each month, but the payment rate isn't tied to increases/decreases in your bank account. That whole being the world's reserve currency is really damn helpful.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:07 AM #9
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3% US economic growth in 2017 is considerably better than the growth over the previous decade.

I believe in 2018 there will continue to be steady economic growth, the early signs are already visible.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:34 AM #10
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The rent on my commercial space was $1,700.00 in 2008.

The rent on my commercial space in 2018 is $3,600.00

Same space, same square footage.

Not complaining, just saying.

Economic growth, lol
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