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Old 06-20-2015, 10:10 PM #21
Only Ornamental
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Originally Posted by oldchuck View Post
"Expansion of female sex organs in response to prolonged virginity in Cannabis sativa (marijuana)"

My god, that's almost pornographic. Science! I wonder if that happens to humans?
Try it: If not having sex with your wife for some time gives you a boner, let's it grow down to your feet or up to your chin (depending on age), and even lets sprout a second or third one...
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Old 06-22-2015, 06:25 PM #22
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Originally Posted by Only Ornamental View Post
Try it: If not having sex with your wife for some time gives you a boner, let's it grow down to your feet or up to your chin (depending on age), and even lets sprout a second or third one...
Lol, that reminds me of a joke I can’t remember. But the punch is…one, two, three, four, over shoulder touch the floor.

Yes…it’s hard for students let alone academic institutions to pay for such things.
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:19 PM #23
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Originally Posted by Only Ornamental View Post
Dear Sam,
Is it really necessary to double-post this too? The DNA project, I understand, but literature? I wouldn't say anything were you to critically review them or explain it to the 'normal' people (>90% of the population won't understand what's written in there, let alone see a realistic use for it).
Besides, the above publication is utter BS. For one, they don't mention which C. sativa they used nor from where it came and for another, they determined CBD and THC in it (both always present at equal % with minimal SD, weird). Now to the stupid part: Did you notice that they increased for example THC content in leaves from 0.01% untreated to 0.1% with the highest ethephon dose (100 uM is a lot and will affect growth, senescence, sex determination and a lot more)? IMHO, this is ridiculous and completely useless. I'm not even starting to rant about the materials&methods section...
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That's what I tried to tell him .

seems like whoever posts the links to the articles in he first place should be the one that *wants* to elucidate for the community.... open that discussion up....
or not.
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:15 PM #24
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Originally Posted by Only Ornamental View Post
sex determination
Isn't the article concerning flowering stage?
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:28 PM #25
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Originally Posted by MJtheIndicator View Post
Isn't the article concerning flowering stage?
I was just saying that the employed high concentration might affect a lot of things, such as phenotypic sex expression. If I were you I wouldn't lose too much time on thoughts about said publication, it isn't worth it.
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Old 06-25-2015, 11:56 AM #26
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First i would like to thanks the poster for the links.

Second, you can go to your local university library and they often let u have free access to there online stuff and then u can save it on a stick or print them out.
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:05 PM #27
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I POSTED 9 MORE on the first page......
If anyone finds a link to the full paper of anything I have posted just abstracts of, let me know and I will add that link also.
Also any explanations, likes or dislikes by anyone is appreciated I just want people to know about what is out there in the science world, good or bad. Some I have read, I will read them all as soon as I can. If enough people like and comment on any papers I will try somehow rate them 1-5 leafs? So folks can start with the best. But so many different interests in this plant and the Cannabinoids and terpenes. If anyone sees a recent great Cannabis paper let me know, and I will add it to my lists.

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Old 06-25-2015, 04:57 PM #28
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Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
...And one for OO...
Thanks! Interesting, though not what I was hoping for. Apart from sex chromosomes, plant hormones and environmental factors as elicitors, I still don't know which molecular mechanism or pathway determines sex or rather hermaphroditism in hemp/cannabis. Also, I'm still wondering how one could determine a hermaphrodite based on genetic tests.
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Old 06-28-2015, 03:49 PM #29
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Originally Posted by Only Ornamental View Post
Thanks! Interesting, though not what I was hoping for. Apart from sex chromosomes, plant hormones and environmental factors as elicitors, I still don't know which molecular mechanism or pathway determines sex or rather hermaphroditism in hemp/cannabis. Also, I'm still wondering how one could determine a hermaphrodite based on genetic tests.
Well if it is intersex genetic based DNA test like male and female are it will be easy.
If it is stress based phenotypic expression then there might be several different markers for this stress induced intersex expression, I presume there are. Time will tell, I expect the first intersex marker tests within a year or two.
So a series of markers will be looked for, male, female, and intersex. As well as stress induced intersex expressions.
I do not want intersex genes regardless what they are, if they, any new prospective parent can be tested before being used for breeding, slowly but surely the tide will change and there will be less and less intersex in the western bred drug populations, and that is a good thing for everyone.
I would use them if cheap and available would you?
I can see seeds being sold saying intersex free tested parents used.
It will happen very soon I am sure of it.
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Old 06-28-2015, 05:30 PM #30
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Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
Well if it is intersex genetic based DNA test like male and female are it will be easy....
LoL. Nope, it won't, it isn't. So far, we have only a very few male markers. Every 'normal' plant contains at least one X chromosome which is slightly smaller than the Y. As far as the current understanding goes, due the smaller size of the X (which basically fits into the Y), a good part of its genes (called pseud-autosomal region) can be recombined with the Y. Hence the current lack of a female marker. On the other hand, the rathe small part of the Y absent on the X gave only rise to a very few (or is it even just MADC2?) male specific markers which don't 'get lost' after a few generations.
These tests only determine the presence (or absence) of a Y chromosome, not sex per se. The last hypothesis I heard of regarding sex determination in hemp was that sex might be determined by the ratio of X to autosomes, not something coded on the Y.
This lacking knowledge on what exactly determines sex in cannabis makes the development of tests so hard. Having the raw DNA sequence or even the full codon including the respective proteins won't help either. What we need is not genes or DNA, we need functions, pathways, control mechanisms, that sorta things. In the end it could be different sets/activities/expression levels of enzymes (has been found but not very accurate), hormones concentrations (has been found for example for auxins but I don't remember if monoecious varieties have been tested as well), or something entirely new or unthought of.
Such tests on the other hand will tell the phenotype. Comparing it with the genotype (XX v.s. XY) reveals if it's a 'pure' sex or a hermaphrodite.
Whether or not this is possible also in very young plants before their sex is determined, I do not know, but Montana Biotech offers such a test (allegedly). If it's going to be possible for stress induced 'hermies'... only time will tell.
If it were my research, I wouldn't start with DNA but functional receptor/pathway-based assays. One problem here is that for many stresses we still haven't found how plants perceive them. We know which stressed do what and via which pathway but too often, the initial receptor is lacking.
If it's receptor based, it's likely going to be on a continuous scale and not black and white (i.e. gene present or not). The progressive loss of hermaphrodites over several generations during selective breeding instead of complete disappearance within 1-2 generations and also the possibility to reduce 'hermies' in likely any population is highly indicative for a QTL. We still don't really understand quantitative traits (such as size or skin colour); still, mostly based on luck, there are a few tests for such traits. But they are a PITA to establish and can't, for the time being, be built upon a known DNA sequence. On the other hand, an understood QTL would allow a test result indicating the % likelihood of phenotypical hermaphroditism.
May such lab test have a material cost of roughly $5 per protein/gene. Dunno why but nearly all I calculated a few years back turned out at that price. This goes only for materials and established tests, ergo 100% commercially available chemicals and reagents. They neglect time and equipment but include running costs such as buffers. Yes, for $5 even I would profit from such tests... But reality looks different and you got to pay quickly $50 and you may need more than one gene/protein. For someone who makes money with it, this is still acceptable but as a hobby gardener not so much.
I'd rather go with a quick&dirty test. Something like this: Take a cutting, put it in 5% glucose solution, wait 3 days and if it doesn't grow more than the control, then...
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