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Old 02-09-2013, 05:57 PM #31
SeaMaiden
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Originally Posted by Crusader Rabbit View Post
I have small pumps or propeller driven power-heads generating a constant flow across the water surface. Seems to make a big difference, and it helps mix nutrients. I like the idea of having some media though to promote a bio-film of aerobic bacteria. I'm curious about the nitrifying bacteria here.

If I have a fish or turtle tank I'm feeding them food and their excreta is filling the water with nitrogen heavy nutrients. Those bacteria in the filter media are consuming the nutrients that would otherwise feed the algae that turn my water into green pea soup. In a reservoir would these same bacteria remove nutrients intended for the plants? What am I missing here?
The bacteria don't remove the nutrients, they convert (oxidize) them. It's funny, but the same genera are at work as in the water, Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas, and they are referred to as the nitrifiers. There is now good science showing Archaea are also at work oxidizing. The sequence goes like this: NH4 (sometimes NH3+/-, I think) ---> NO2 (still toxic form) ---> NO3. It is important to remember, however, that high nitrates are not necessarily a good goal with plants, but nitrogen conversion and utilization is.

Also, another 'of note' for me is that it is typically high phosphorous or phosphate levels that tend to lead to algal blooms.

In all these cases, the nutrient in question does not disappear, it becomes 'fixed' into the bodies of the plants or animals in question. When they die or shit, then it is no longer fixed.
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Originally Posted by Crusader Rabbit View Post
Of course, unless the reservoir's chilled then something is going to grow in there. Are the bacteria in the filter media biofilm that much more helpful than the aerobic bacteria in a surface agitated reservoir? Inquiring minds want to know.
Even if it's chilled, there are microbes that can live. What you're missing is that the biological filtration media is providing TONS more space and homes for the microbes. The surface agitation is necessary whether or not you're culturing the microbes.

Has this helped at all? Hoping so.
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Originally Posted by Keep goin View Post
Yeah guys...thanks for the info. The bottom line, not sure why it works so well...the technical details, etc. But let me tell ya...holy shit!!

I'm now entering the 6th week of flowering. Deep, dark color...super bud development. Strength of plants is obvious, EC is stable and easy to manage. Other than the overall health, I have noticed nothing else...certainly nothing negative as a result of using these filters. I now have them in all 3 of my res, plus my EZ cloner...never seen better results in there either, nubs in 2 days! bursting roots in 4!!!. And that was in water I was not getting results in...just put the filter in rather than changing it out (lazy) didn't really "need" the cuts just put em in...blowing up. It's crazy!!

I will try to see about eliminating the carbon...trying some other items ie: bio balls, lava rocks, etc. But honestly I don't notice anything negative about just using the filter as it came in the box.

SeaMaiden I searched those canister filters and Eihem products in particular. Look interesting, but what what what...$129 or more...um no! These are $20 for the 10-30 gal version $11 for the 2-10 gal version (which I put in my cloner) They even have a 1-5 gal version which I'm planning on putting in a 5 gal stand alone DWC bubbler bucket.

I think I'm in love....give em a try!! Cheap, easy, readily available...go go go.

Good Luck All
KG
Sorry, I totally fish-geeked out on you. Yes, the Eheim products are expensive, but they last a lifetime, quite literally. I so wish I hadn't gotten rid of all my aquariums and gear right at this moment. Storage headaches aside, of course. A big canister filter could be hooked up in-line with all your reservoirs and cloner, but I don't think that would be very configurable for you.

There are, I think, cheaper versions of what you're using, too. Most fish shops use them, they're called Supreme Super King aquarium filters, and the turnover these things produce is just fucking ridiculous. I've seen them mostly used for feeder tanks, which are typically very overstocked/crowded and so often have disease problems. These things, oh my God the flow through these things is just unreal!



Whoa.... I just had a moment remembering the sound of a large fishroom, no one else in it, nothing but the sound of water falling and splashing. Nothing but thousands and thousands of fish... That was pretty wild.

I love fishrooms. Truly, I do.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:16 PM #32
Gruetoo
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Woot Great job. My other hobby is salt water reefs. And I believe Seamaiden is right. The first thing you would notice is an increase in dissolved oxygen as your adding more area for Air/gas exchange at the surface. I Also agree that the Carbon would fill its pores quickly and just become a housing for microbes. As your filter becomes a living part of your system you need to watch for a few things.

First is to clean the filter regulary. By removing the filter (every 2 weeks) and removing what ever it caught. This stops the flotsum and jetsum from breaking down in your water.

Use the water in the system to clean the filter. I do not believe in add backs only. it is my belief that a small portion of your water must be removed from your system. Lets say you remove 5 gallons every 2 weeks and not just a res change. I would use this water to clean your filters before disposing this water. The reason being is the additives used in most city water. The clorine and such have no place in our girls.

Carbon is ok, but bio-balls or floss (CPR BIO-BALE Biological Filter) Work great at housing the beni bacterias. Again I would rinse these time to time in water I was going to dispose.

I have always loved the Fluval systems. Good sponge to be able to rinse and return. and the differing compartments allow you to run differing sized mediums. Just keep clean and air out of it.

The next part of this would have to do with the type of bacteria in your system. By cultivating the bacteria you want you leave less food for the unwanted bacteria. So the addition of benifial fungus or even fish tank starter bacteria will hold back the slime or other non wanted bacteria.

For those that disagree thats cool. For those on a tight budget put a filter sock in your res where you have your water returning. Fill the filter sock with bio-balls or floss or fluval rocks. It can not hurt your system. (Unless you never remove and wash)

I did find it quite surprising that so many ran Hydro with out some sort of filtration. To me this is akin to not wearing underware. While on the first day it may feel cool and breezy, but after a week in the same pants with no change things will chaffe and problems will occur.

So please people put panties on your girls. They dont have to be sexy. But they need to be there.

My 2 Cents

Gruetoo
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:34 PM #33
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Grue, did you know that it has been determined for certain that it's carbon that causes HLLE in saltwater fishes? I think it was Sanjay Joshi, can't recall for certain. So many people have been relying on carbon in their reef systems, now to pull it out. Here comes the greater advent of the refugium!
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:45 PM #34
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Uh, the IC server tells me that there should be a post from SeaMaiden here but I sure don't see it. Even after multiple refreshes.


edit; Whoa !!! The three posts above this post of mine weren't there when this post was first displayed on this page.

Last edited by Crusader Rabbit; 02-09-2013 at 08:18 PM.. Reason: I am amazed
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:52 PM #35
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Uh, the IC server tells me that there should be a post from SeaMaiden here but I sure don't see it. Even after multiple refreshes.
That happened to me yesterday or the day before, I couldn't see a post. A few weeks ago it happened in another thread and it was three days before I could see the post that had bumped the thread back up in my tree.

Can you see this post?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.ph...7&postcount=31
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:30 PM #36
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Can you see this post?

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I can see all obstacles in my way
Here is that rainbow I've been praying for
It's gonna be a bright bright bright bright sun shiny day
It's gonna be a bright bright bright bright sun shiny day
Bri-ri-ri-ri-right
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Oh yeah
It's gonna be a bright bright bright bright sun shiny day
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:31 PM #37
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fluval. 30'' long.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:58 AM #38
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Not to take over this thread..... I can see how large doses of carbon can affect fish and Corals. Which is why I made my own referium. This with filter socks and Echobak along with algea is my filter of choice. But if the water becomes a bit tinged I will run carbon for 4 days max.

But with the girls a simple filter sock, some beni bacteria and a place to hold your bac is really all that is needed.

I will be starting my room soon, (putting togethers brothers roon atm) and I will be using a protien skimmer pump to add O2 to my res. Tho I been really looking at those keep alive pumps, they seem to do the same thing but cost a ton less.

Getting back to this thread... Yes Add filter material! Add Huge ammounts of O2 and keep her panties clean No one wants a red Bum...

Just my 2cents

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Old 02-10-2013, 05:34 AM #39
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i put a uv killer in mine so look out bennie.
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Old 02-10-2013, 05:11 PM #40
Keep goin
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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
Woot Great job. Gruetoo
Thanks...I'm trying.

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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
I Also agree that the Carbon would fill its pores quickly and just become a housing for microbes.
Yeah, this seems to be the case...after a week or so any bit of paleness of the leaves (minor) disappears.


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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
First is to clean the filter regulary. By removing the filter (every 2 weeks) and removing what ever it caught. This stops the flotsum and jetsum from breaking down in your water.
Good tip...even though I haven't done it. Still working fine....gotta get on that.


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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
I do not believe in add backs only.


Well, that's fine...I'll quote you to you..."For those that disagree thats cool."


I love doing add backs only...saves water, nutrients, time, and my back...I haul ALL my water to my spot by hand!!

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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
it is my belief that a small portion of your water must be removed from your system.

I let my plants and dehumidifier do that. Together they pull at least 5+ gal a day from my res.


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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
The reason being is the additives used in most city water. The clorine and such have no place in our girls.

Thankfully I live in the mountains and have the most wonderful water. But agree with your statement for those who deal with chlorine in their water. Ugh...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
Carbon is ok, but bio-balls or floss (CPR BIO-BALE Biological Filter) Work great at housing the beni bacterias. Again I would rinse these time to time in water I was going to dispose.

Yeah, I may try those in the filter in the future...so far just running these out of the box...working great!!


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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
The next part of this would have to do with the type of bacteria in your system. By cultivating the bacteria you want you leave less food for the unwanted bacteria. So the addition of benifial fungus or even fish tank starter bacteria will hold back the slime or other non wanted bacteria.

What do you guys think about using plant benis...I use to add great white to my res...haven't tried it with the filter yet...wondering if adding them would benefit??




Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
I did find it quite surprising that so many ran Hydro with out some sort of filtration. To me this is akin to not wearing underware.

I think most are doing this because they are just doing what the nute manufacturers and hydro store guys want them to do...and also erring on the side of safety...changing out every week to 10 days makes them more money by needing more nutes. It also keeps the res more stable obviously because just when things could get "interesting" you're eliminating and cleaning.

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Originally Posted by Gruetoo View Post
So please people put panties on your girls. They dont have to be sexy. But they need to be there.
I would agree...filtration is the best thing going...




Thanks for your input
KG
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