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Old 12-20-2011, 04:06 AM #31
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Warnings about working with Potassium/Sodium Hydroxide (lye)

ever seen the movie Fight Club? remember the white powder that Brad Pitt poured on Edward Norton's hand that badly scarred Edwards hand?! meet the commercially used alkali metal hydrates; potassium hydroxide (KOH, Caustic Potash, potash lye potassium hydrate) and sodium hydroxide (NaOH, caustic soda, lye, sodiun hydrate). you should see how fast this stuff can melt an eyeball. permanent blindness in 15 seconds, water makes the reaction worse.
Pictures of alkali metal hydroxide burns (2nd picture is graphic)
scars from KOH skin burn https://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...0&tx=105&ty=21
permanent eye damage from NaOH https://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl...1t:429,r:1,s:0 (image might be disturbing to some)
DO NOT TAKE THIS STUFF LIGHTLY! i hope i am not violating any TOU by posting those links, the only intention is to show how seriously certain chemicals need to be taken.

here are some rules and guidelines to follow when handling alkali metal hydroxides

"When using lye... follow some simple cautions. Never add water to lye because it will react violently and may splatter. Always add lye slowly to cool water and wear protective clothing such as long gloves. Lye will react with metals such as aluminum, cast iron, and steel. It should be stored and mixed in ceramic, stoneware, glass, or heat-resistant plastic containers. Glass should be used with caution because it may break due to the heat released when lye reacts. Because of the fumes formed, work in a well ventilated area when making lye solutions and don't breathe the fumes. Goggles and protective clothing such as chemical resistant gloves, are a good idea. Utensils used with lye need to be wooden or heat-proof plastic and both they, and any pots used should never be used for food items again. Any containers used to store lye or lye solutions should be adequately marked and kept in safe locations. When working with lye keep a bowl of vinegar nearby to splash on any skin it might get on. Vinegar will counteract lye and stop its burning. Milk will also neutralize lye and can be used if it is accidentally swallowed or gotten into the eye. If either of these thing happen call 911 immediately and get medical help. Do not induce vomiting or give vinegar to someone who has swallowed lye. If lye get on the skin flush it with lots of water with some salt if there is no vinegar. The same goes for the eyes flush them repeatedly with water [with salt]"
https://www.ehow.com/how_4742114_use-...s-dangers.html
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:37 PM #32
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I have bin lurking some of the treads here at, Cannabis Botany and Advanced Growing Science. And it could be interesting to using a mixture of BAP, MeJa, and Methanol.

but I have to read more about BAP, and MeJa.

and do you have any idea why in one of the studies thy used 15% coconut milk?
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Old 01-30-2012, 03:46 PM #33
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Interesting thread
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:46 AM #34
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Originally Posted by dizzlekush View Post
@blueberrydrumz

Its actually even cheaper from Phytotech:
https://www.phytotechlab.com/detail.aspx?ID=141

The ebay source is from plantsandstuff.com so heres the options from plantsandstuff.com:
https://plantsandstuff.com/Products.html

the ebay option is a little more than double the price... they probably got their chemicals from Phytotech or Caymen or something and are just trying to make a few bucks being a useless middleman.
Hello, Im the owner and operator of Plants And Stuff. and Im here to set things straight.

First of all, I AM cheaper on that hormone and every other that we both sell. Yeah phyto's price is $8.75 Did you notice the shipping cost? The cheapest option was more then $10! Do you really think the are spending the entire $10 for a package that weighs less then 2 ounces? Not a chance. Your total price is more then $18.00 from them.

My price is $12.95 +1.75 shipping on that and most of my products of similar size(5g) Your total price with us is $14.75 and my shipping service will get you order to you most of the time in only 3 days not 5-7 days like phyto's fedex ground shipping. And un like phyto, every bit of the shipping I get goes to purchasing a shipping label. I make zero dollars from shipping, some items are even offered with FREE shipping.

Not only that but with PlantsAndStuff you are getting so much more then just the hormones. You will get detailed instructions on how to reach just about any useful ppm strength(with out using an expensive .001g scale), Storage, dissolving and application instructions. Plus a knowledgeable staff that is ready and willing to help you with questions. Try getting that from Cayman Chemical or Phyto. They'll tell you to go read a book.

Now look at Phyto's gibberellic acid 90% $91 PER GRAM! You'll pay only $14.95+$4.95 shipping with us and you will get 5 GRAMS GA3 90% plus detailed usage instructions. We even can tell you how to make a hermi plant so you can create 100% fem seeds if you ask us nicely :-)

But as instructions go, every one of out product have them. Clearly we are no "Useless middle man". If you find a better price, we'll beat it unless its wholesale of course. However if you were to buy sufficient quantity, we could probably beat that too.

Last edited by PlantsAndStuff; 02-16-2012 at 02:47 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:35 AM #35
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Originally Posted by PlantsAndStuff View Post
Hello, Im the owner and operator of Plants And Stuff. and Im here to set things straight.

First of all, I AM cheaper on that hormone and every other that we both sell. Yeah phyto's price is $8.75 Did you notice the shipping cost? The cheapest option was more then $10! Do you really think the are spending the entire $10 for a package that weighs less then 2 ounces? Not a chance. Your total price is more then $18.00 from them.

My price is $12.95 +1.75 shipping on that and most of my products of similar size(5g) Your total price with us is $14.75 and my shipping service will get you order to you most of the time in only 3 days not 5-7 days like phyto's fedex ground shipping. And un like phyto, every bit of the shipping I get goes to purchasing a shipping label. I make zero dollars from shipping, some items are even offered with FREE shipping.

Not only that but with PlantsAndStuff you are getting so much more then just the hormones. You will get detailed instructions on how to reach just about any useful ppm strength(with out using an expensive .001g scale), Storage, dissolving and application instructions. Plus a knowledgeable staff that is ready and willing to help you with questions. Try getting that from Cayman Chemical or Phyto. They'll tell you to go read a book.

Now look at Phyto's gibberellic acid 90% $91 PER GRAM! You'll pay only $14.95+$4.95 shipping with us and you will get 5 GRAMS GA3 90% plus detailed usage instructions. We even can tell you how to make a hermi plant so you can create 100% fem seeds if you ask us nicely :-)

But as instructions go, every one of out product have them. Clearly we are no "Useless middle man". If you find a better price, we'll beat it unless its wholesale of course. However if you were to buy sufficient quantity, we could probably beat that too.
Fair enough, was rude of me to say such a thing. however...

I purchased 25g from Phytotech labs for $39 shipping and handling included, IIRC your prices were roughly double that about a month ago at $79 for 25 grams.

I now know that you bought your inventory from Michel, the owner of super-grow and since then the Triacontanol you purchased from him magically got more concentrated and when from 85% (super-grow) to 90% (according to you). For me, that alone destroyed all your credibility as a reputable source for PGR's. I need to know that the accuracy of the purity of the product im buying is accurate at least to the 0.1% for me to be able to do experimentation with some accuracy.

Colloidal silver, silver nitrate and silver thoisulfate are better at inducing fertile male flowers on a female cannabis plant than Gibberellins, but im interested in what you consider a proper GA3 dosage to "make a hermi" as you say. BTW the 'stretch' that GA3 induces (cell elongation with out proper replication) is considered a negative side effect for cannabis growers.

BTW i have been contacted by multiple people about sourcing TRIA and i always bring you up as the cheapest option, so im not as much of a hater of you, the middle man, as it might seem.

Care to comment?
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"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know." - Attributed to Socrates
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:40 AM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzlekush View Post
this is on a dioecious plant that was originally genetically male. In Cannabis sativa, cytokinins induce female flowering while gibberellins induce male flowering. Spraying BAP on a female marijuana plant will do nothing but induce more female flowers, not cause hermaphroditic characteristics. however spraying BAP on a male marijuana plant could cause hermaphroditic characteristics.



One thing of interest though is all the pre-formulated BAP mixes that are around 1.9-2% all say to not spray within 84 days of harvest. after poring over toxicology info one more time i still cant find any reasoning for this 84 day restriction, nor can i find any regulation stating the 84 day requirement for consumable crops. anybody know anything about this?

does this mean we can use it on our male plants to get completely female flowers???
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:48 AM #37
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Originally Posted by dizzlekush View Post
Fair enough, was rude of me to say such a thing. however...

I purchased 25g from Phytotech labs for $39 shipping and handling included, IIRC your prices were roughly double that about a month ago at $79 for 25 grams.

I now know that you bought your inventory from Michel, the owner of super-grow and since then the Triacontanol you purchased from him magically got more concentrated and when from 85% (super-grow) to 90% (according to you). For me, that alone destroyed all your credibility as a reputable source for PGR's. I need to know that the accuracy of the purity of the product im buying is accurate at least to the 0.1% for me to be able to do experimentation with some accuracy.

Colloidal silver, silver nitrate and silver thoisulfate are better at inducing fertile male flowers on a female cannabis plant than Gibberellins, but im interested in what you consider a proper GA3 dosage to "make a hermi" as you say. BTW the 'stretch' that GA3 induces (cell elongation with out proper replication) is considered a negative side effect for cannabis growers.

BTW i have been contacted by multiple people about sourcing TRIA and i always bring you up as the cheapest option, so im not as much of a hater of you, the middle man, as it might seem.

Care to comment?
My prices are what they are. I dont have hundreds of items to sell to make up for it. But you still dont get any instructions from the other company. You may not need them but I can almost guarantee that 95%+ of the people here, would need them. Beside that, my price is $79 for 50 grams. look, its right on the front page https://www.plantsandstuff.com/Products.html its always been that price.

OK about Mikes inventory. I didnt get it. Super-grow blames us for his business failing. Personally I think he wanted to take his $100k inheritance and live like a king in the Philippines. Needless to say, they wouldnt consider selling to us. About Mikes 85% TRI. The product is rated at 80% minimum guaranteed purity and 90% and 99.99999% He ordered 80% product and probably got it consistently at around 85% so thats what he labeled it. Maybe he lies, who knows? I know he marked his NAA-NA as NAA-AA because -NA stands for sodium naphthalene acetic acid salt. He deliberately labeled it NAA-AA to hide that fact that its a sodium salt. There's NAA-NA and NAA-k that are water soluble, k is potassium. No AA.
My PGR are always fresh. I buy small lots at a time several time per year so its never more then a few months old. Its always straight from the manufacture to me. And like I said, I'll beat any price. I can produce a certificate of analysis(COA) to prove purity and freshness.

OK about the plant that has both male and female parts. Well call it that since you dont like the term "hermi" or hermaphrodite.
OK so to make one the the aforementioned unnamed plants. spray it once a day for 10 days with 100ppm GA3. I cant speak to the colloidal.

Now about using GA3 in growth. Hit it with 200ppm when it first start producing flowers. Only spray it once. A day before you do that give it bloom booster fertilizer with fulvic acid and compound L-Amino acid fertilizer, if your arent already doing that. It will induce heavy blooming. Now if you spray it when its already flowering, use 75ppm strength. You wont see much stretching but it should keep flowering for you for the next 2-3 months. Now different strains might act differently but I think it unlikely. However, you just wont know until you experiment. Which is what this is all about anyway, in my opinion.

Last edited by PlantsAndStuff; 02-16-2012 at 05:55 AM.. Reason: Clearification.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:54 AM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantsAndStuff View Post
Now about using GA3 in growth. Hit it with 200ppm when it first start producing flowers. Only spray it once. A day before you do that give it bloom booster fertilizer with fulvic acid and compound L-Amino acid fertilizer, if your arent already doing that. It will induce heavy blooming. Now if you spray it when its already flowering, use 75ppm strength. You wont see much stretching but it should keep flowering for you for the next 2-3 months. Now different strains might act differently but I think it unlikely. However, you just wont know until you experiment. Which is what this is all about anyway, in my opinion.
P&S i gotta disagree with everything you say except suggesting people use fulvic acid. Applying ANY amounts of GA3 to cannabis in the bloom phase will drastically increase internodal stretch, which is again, heavily frowned upon for cannabis growers. Also applying "Bloom Fertilizer" which im guessing is characterized by high phosphorous (sometimes potassium) content is also a bad idea during the beginning of bloom as again, high P (and NH4) increases internodal stretch. Cannabis growers hate the stretch (and gibberellins for that matter) so much that paclobutrazol, daminozide, and chlormequat chloride is often used in cannabis cultivation, which i don't agree with being used on consumables.

Also applying free form (not batch chelated to cations) L amino acids has little, to no, to negative effects on growth. a small amount of L-form amino chelated micros (combined with other forms of chelation) can be beneficial and Glycine chelation is useful for foliar application, but all these silly amino acid products are useless.

All sounds like some good advice for growing grapes though... except for the aminos.

Im curious, What PPM of BAP and Triacontanol would you suggest for cannabis if the BAP application would take place once in early bloom, and the TRIA application would be every two weeks from micro-propagation to harvest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopyTeaBags View Post
does this mean we can use it on our male plants to get completely female flowers???
No, poopy, but you can use BAP, other cytokinins, Ethephon and possibly Auxins (stay away from 2,4-D & 2,4,5-T etc.) to induce hermaphroditic flowering (combination of both male & female) on your genetically male cannabis plant. IDK about viable fertility of female flowers, all offspring would be male if plant went to seed, and potency would be less than females of the same phenotype.
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"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:11 AM #39
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Originally Posted by dizzlekush View Post
P&S i gotta disagree with everything you say except suggest people use fulvic acid. Applying ANY amounts of GA3 to cannabis in the bloom phase will drastically increase internodal stretch, which is again, heavily frowned upon for cannabis growers. Also applying "Bloom Fertilizer" which im guessing is characterized by high phosphorous (sometimes potassium) content is also a bad idea during the beginning of bloom as again, high P (and NH4) increases internodal stretch.

Also applying free form (not batch chelated to cations) L amino acids has little, to no, to negative effects on growth. a small amount of L-form amino chelated micros (combined with other forms of chelation) can be beneficial and Glycine chelation is useful for foliar application, but all these silly amino acid products are useless.

Im curious, What PPM of BAP and Triacontanol would you suggest for cannabis if the BAP application would take place once in early bloom, and the TRIA application would be every two weeks from micro-propagation to harvest?
Look, Im no expert on cannabis. I make recommendations on how I know the products work. Iv found that everything you read about this stuff isnt always accurate Either. Its best to do your own experiments. My customers all reported well on my recommendations.

I have to disagree with you on the stretching. Its stretching because you are making it too strong. If you use a lower ppm and mix it with TRI, it will stretch side ways too (fatter). In theory of course. It works with other plants, Ive never grown Cannabis as it isnt legal for me to do so at this time. and I dont know that a little stretching is frowned upon. Ive had people ask me how to make thier plants taller. Anyway, I wasnt writting today to get into an in depth conversation about this topic though. I was addressing a comment that made PlantsAndStuff look bad. I tend to take that personal as I am the person who started it.

If you want to talk about it more, send me an email. I believe you are in the same user group as me. You have my mail still.
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:20 AM #40
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Originally Posted by dizzlekush View Post
P&S i gotta disagree with everything you say except suggest people use fulvic acid. Applying ANY amounts of GA3 to cannabis in the bloom phase will drastically increase internodal stretch, which is again, heavily frowned upon for cannabis growers. Also applying "Bloom Fertilizer" which im guessing is characterized by high phosphorous (sometimes potassium) content is also a bad idea during the beginning of bloom as again, high P (and NH4) increases internodal stretch.

Also applying free form (not batch chelated to cations) L amino acids has little, to no, to negative effects on growth. a small amount of L-form amino chelated micros (combined with other forms of chelation) can be beneficial and Glycine chelation is useful for foliar application, but all these silly amino acid products are useless.

Im curious, What PPM of BAP and Triacontanol would you suggest for cannabis if the BAP application would take place once in early bloom, and the TRIA application would be every two weeks from micro-propagation to harvest?
Look, Im no expert on cannabis. I make recommendations on how I know the products work. Iv found that everything you read about this stuff isnt always accurate Either. Its best to do your own experiments. My customers all reported well on my recommendations.

I have to disagree with you on the stretching. Its stretching because you are making it too strong. If you use a lower ppm and mix it with TRI, it will stretch side ways too (fatter). In theory of course. It works with other plants, Ive never grown Cannabis as it isnt legal for me to do so at this time and I dont know that a little stretching is frowned upon. Ive had people ask me how to make thier plants taller. Heres some info, I just garnered "some gardeners prefer a bit of stretch to allow budsites to fill in adequately. Buds with perfect density can be grown by controlling stretch." And ,"Stretch is a problem primarily in indoor grows... The problem stems from the limitations of artificial light and the plant’s adaptations to low light." "Encouraging stretch can be a good technique to prevent budrot in susceptible strains and massive colas. Elongated buds are less dense, and the humidity within buds is reduced."
Out door plants will do much better.



Anyway, I wasnt writting today to get into an in depth conversation about this topic though. I was addressing a comment that made PlantsAndStuff look bad. I tend to take that personal as I am the person who started it.

If you want to talk about it more, send me an email. I believe you are in the same user group as me. You have my mail still.
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