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Old 04-01-2011, 04:50 PM #21
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Can't express the love I feel for you oregon skunk pharmers. Thanks for the info you guys continually freely provide.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:04 PM #22
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:05 PM #23
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wow! great info everyone. i love these science threads.

we are fortunate to live in oregon and to have a tight group of scientists working together, the skunk pharm.

our attorney advises that as long as there are no roots, it is not a plant. this gives grow geek some parameters under which to function. i wonder if there were no foliage, only root, if it would be considered a plant? hmmmm........
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:36 AM #24
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our attorney advises that as long as there are no roots, it is not a plant. this gives grow geek some parameters under which to function. i wonder if there were no foliage, only root, if it would be considered a plant? hmmmm........
Just because it's in vitro doesn't absolve one of section 201.1 of the US Sentencing Guidelines:

"For purposes of the guidelines, a "plant" is an organism having leaves and a readily observable root formation (e.g., a marihuana cutting having roots, a rootball, or root hairs is a marihuana plant.)"

See also U.S. v. Miles, 319 Fed. Appx. 266 (4th Cir. 2009).

If anything TC, just gets you to that 99 plant limit just a little faster. Even callus tissue can have roots. Marijuana is still "considered all parts of the plant Cannabis sativa L.," including seeds.

Now, as for the all roots bit- look up hairy root culture. Of course, given that roots don't produce the compounds of interest, it's a moot point.
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:01 AM #25
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Just because it's in vitro doesn't absolve one of section 201.1 of the US Sentencing Guidelines:

"For purposes of the guidelines, a "plant" is an organism having leaves and a readily observable root formation (e.g., a marihuana cutting having roots, a rootball, or root hairs is a marihuana plant.)"

See also U.S. v. Miles, 319 Fed. Appx. 266 (4th Cir. 2009).

If anything TC, just gets you to that 99 plant limit just a little faster. Even callus tissue can have roots. Marijuana is still "considered all parts of the plant Cannabis sativa L.," including seeds.

Now, as for the all roots bit- look up hairy root culture. Of course, given that roots don't produce the compounds of interest, it's a moot point.
without doubt, we are outside bounds of federal laws. we are, however, making all efforts to stay within the bounds of oregon law, which is much more flexable.

azclones, are you saying the tissue culture shows root hairs and thus is considered a plant?
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:23 PM #26
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Just because it's in vitro doesn't absolve one of section 201.1 of the US Sentencing Guidelines:

"For purposes of the guidelines, a "plant" is an organism having leaves and a readily observable root formation (e.g., a marihuana cutting having roots, a rootball, or root hairs is a marihuana plant.)"

See also U.S. v. Miles, 319 Fed. Appx. 266 (4th Cir. 2009).

If anything TC, just gets you to that 99 plant limit just a little faster. Even callus tissue can have roots. Marijuana is still "considered all parts of the plant Cannabis sativa L.," including seeds.

Now, as for the all roots bit- look up hairy root culture. Of course, given that roots don't produce the compounds of interest, it's a moot point.
As you suggest, it is a crapshoot, but our attorney advises us that until it has a definable root structure, it is not legally a plant by Oregon law.

By our process, it will never have a root structure, until it is moved from the growing culture media to the rooting media, so it will never fall under section 201.1 until we have made that move.

Since there is no reason to move plantlets into the rooting media at a rate in violation of Oregon OMMP regulations, it appears easy to keep a library of any number of different strains without being in violation.

As ES notes, the feds dance to their own drummer, regardless of state laws and us having the legal right under state laws is inadmissible evidence in federal court.

By definition, all of us medical marijuana patients are at the very least civilly disobedient at a federal level, so we can either recognize that and back off, or exert our state rights by doing our legal research.

We have simply elected to pursue state legal research within 201.1 guidelines, without engaging in other flagrant violations of both state and federal laws that are more likely to draw LEO fire.

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Old 04-04-2011, 12:52 AM #27
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azclones, are you saying the tissue culture shows root hairs and thus is considered a plant?
Every plant I've ever maintained in axenic culture has produced at least some root hairs after establishment. You might have to look for them, but they're there. I can only think of a couple of species that produced smooth callus after induction, but most had trichoids that were at least morphologically similar to roots. Admittedly, I didn't put them under the 'scope to see if they were leaf hairs or root hairs. I mean, you get some weird-ass growth out of callus tissue, but plants have to take up nutrients somehow. Cuticular wax doesn't allow for too much of that, so even callus can throw small roots and root hairs.

As a practical matter, I would not consider it unlikely that some clever prosecutor might try to impose a greater sentence on plants in tissue culture, if for no better reason that they would appear to present a greater "threat." From that, they'd say that X plants could be regenerated from a single callus, and therefore the imposed sentence should be greater than if it were a single plant. It'll make for an interesting test case.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:46 PM #28
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since there is no clear answer to whether or not there are root hairs, and the likelyhood that some street officer will pull out a microscope to check for root hairs (or that he would know what to look for) is minimal, we will follow the advised of the most seasoned oregon state mmj defense attorney in this situation.

but i do thank you for the added knowledge and will advise grow geek to get out his best scope to check. we will fill you in when we have additional findings.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:59 PM #29
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Every plant I've ever maintained in axenic culture has produced at least some root hairs after establishment. You might have to look for them, but they're there.
As a practical matter, I would not consider it unlikely that some clever prosecutor might try to impose a greater sentence on plants in tissue culture, if for no better reason that they would appear to present a greater "threat." It'll make for an interesting test case.
Thanks for the heads up bro! So far ours do not appear to have anything in the form of root structures, but looking at them under a microscope is a good idea and we will do so.

Valid point on no protection from clever prosecutors, not to mention unscruplous practices by Leo, and as you note, it would make an interesting test case. I hoping not ours.

We did see a cannabis attorney on the subject before experimenting, who opined that it was clearly defined as a non plant and that LEO is more focused on operations whose business practices are in violation of both state and federal law.

Our plan to ride in the center of the posse and keep our heads down, by staying within Oregon state laws and not becoming a thorn in the DEA's side with any other of our practices.

No doubt it is also likely that if cannabis tissue culture becomes widespread, they will simply rewrite the description of a plant.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:11 PM #30
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Very interesting.

I have oft hypothesised whether it would be possible to trick our lovely lady into doing some interesting things in tissue culture.

Not really even if it is possible, because it is, more how and what are the hormones, growth regulators and other conditions required to get a MJ culture to produce large amounts of either THC and cannabinoids or Trichs in culture.
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