[green404]

Originally Posted by moose eater

I can think of plenty of legal markets where persons screw others, whether automobiles, furniture, appliances, etc., and often walk away smelling like roses. In any market, that's wrong. And even with legalization, that still goes on today. Just often involves different karmic or legal outcomes.

yeah much different in a mainstream business world victims lose money. It is a game of money.

In the illegal world of contraband substances victims lose life/freedom or worse. The aspect that really sucks is it rewards rats, dealers get busted they turn in a few customers and stay free. Rinse Repeat.
In the larger contraband game people kidnap, rape and kill families to discourage that. Dirty, nasty and really F*ing dangerous not my idea of a good place to make friends and culture.

Whether it is the small time dealer who will rat me out if they need to or the big supplier who will murder my family if they need to. No thanks, I will stick to my legal weed and my legal culture !

[moose eater]

I don't begrudge anyone's personal choices along those lines, green. Really.

In the end, whether legal or illegal markets, it's all about the clarity of vision/scrutiny of the person(s) letting others into their environment, & the karmic nature of who you do business with.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

There are benefits and costs to anything. ALL things are Yin & Yang.

[green404]

Originally Posted by moose eater

There are benefits and costs to anything. ALL things are Yin & Yang.

For the average consumer and personal grower we just want to use cannabis and get high. We do not want to risk prison. Their is no benefit for users to have cannabis illegal.

The end of the drug war will only "cost" law enforcement and illegal growers and dealers.

[moose eater]

And as has already been stated, the federal taxes will buy missiles and drones to kill Pakistanis, Yemenis, Afghanis, etc., many/most of whom are 'non-combatants,' and the local/State production & retail taxes will buy more time for authoritarians to ruin the lives of others who engage in 'victimless crimes' of one sort or another.

ALL things are Yin & Yang.

Are the Yemenis' and Pakis' lives worth less than a U.S. citizen's?

Is the freedom to do legal business in the canna market more important than a hooker's or a John's right to be?

It's a 'carbon foot-print' of a whole 'nother type here, whether funding uncertainty and some violence in the black markets, or funding death and violations of International laws through legal business.

To each their own, provided they all let each other be.

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Wouldn't it be better if illegal growers were considered to be the hero's of the cannabis industry, and to make amends for all the years of paranoia and persecution upon legalization they could receive government support by quashing any felonies/criminal records they might have attained in all the years they had to grow covertly for cannabis crimes, and government grants to be able to further their business, set up shops and funds/scholarships for further education in horticulture?

After all it is/was a war on this plant and those that dare/dared to grow it should receive reparations for all they have suffered.

The war was lost by the government so they should pay compensation, and exonerate the once illegal growers and award them all purple hearts.

[moose eater]

That was proposed here in Alaska, within Proposition 5 in 2000, Gypsy, to some degree.

The Proposition failed miserably, and (many/enough) scoffed at the thought of reparations to criminals, as well as any erasing of criminal records from past cultivation or selling convictions.

Whether it was legalized or not, the group in question wasn't even in favor of releasing those incarcerated for past canna offenses, if it became legal. Even if Prop 5 had succeeded, the group in reference wanted past canna 'criminals' to remain locked up.. even at over $50,000/year/inmate..

We're a punitive, spiteful, and vindictive culture in more ways than many want to understand.

As for farming grants, most/many of them are federally sourced at some level or to some degree. That said, the feds currently oppose funding any canna businesses in any way, even if they're going to turn a blind eye to it. *There may be some 'budding' exceptions to this as time goes by now.

[bigtacofarmer]

Originally Posted by moose eater

I associate, then and now, with very few persons I wouldn't have eat dinner at my table with my family, green. And if we did business, you probably DID eat dinner with my family, or at least have a beverage here.

Same for any work crews that came here, whether carpentry, plumbing, or ??? They got fed and wetted. Smoked up (with no canna business discussion typically) if they were into that.

But I grew up around sometimes-violent people, who weren't always well-hinged, as well as travelling fairly widely by thumb and elsewise, then worked in mental health for a good while as a clinician.

Human beings are largely untrustable. Not always out of malice, but more often out of self-serving priorities of one sort or another, or ignorance.

In the end, when principles smack into reality, most persons abandon principles, and lean toward self-serving priorities.

There's what they say, and there's what they do.. Back then, 99.9% of persons in 'the markets' said they would never give anyone up. Under the hot lights, with everything and everyone they cared about on the table, around that same number (95% - 99%) gave up what ever was asked for.

I'm a 'scorched-earth' policy guy from way back, and have strong opposition to ever losing anything willingly or cooperatively, mine or yours, to threats and systemic bullying.

As a kid I took a fall 2x's for items that were co-owned, and gave up no one. (*One of the goofy bastages whose acid got seized asked me for compensation when I got released; I told him the cops had his half of the stash and he should ask them about it. No "thanks for taking my half of the beef for me." Human behavior ain't what we think it ought to be MUCH of the time.

Any business I was ever involved with, and it went beyond weed for many years, was 'voluntary business,' done honestly, with clean products. My policy was that if another stepped in some fecal matter, then that was unfortunate, but their issue to take care of. Support? Sure. Help? Depending on what kind, and what might be done, but their issue in the end.

If they made the mistake of believing that my family, home, my freedom, etc., somehow became a convenient bargaining chip, then they were truly off into some distorted thinking. I expected what I gave. No.. I mandated what I gave be returned..

For that reason, I did very little retail business (a death sentence for those in production, imo), and VERY few persons did wholesale business with me that I couldn't look in the eye, and find some degree of true understanding with.

Yes, the stress from those years, despite 'screening' my social interactions well, and especially in light of activism going on all that time, was harsh on nerves. I don't miss that degree of angst at all.

But I also think we need to give each other room to be, in all walks, as long as persons are being decent, and treating each other respectfully.

I can think of plenty of legal markets where persons screw others, whether automobiles, furniture, appliances, etc., and often walk away smelling like roses. In any market, that's wrong. And even with legalization, that still goes on today. Just often involves different karmic or legal outcomes.

I have a small handful of friends that I know have had the opportunity to save their own ass by naming someone else, and took their fall. Its hard to predict who and who is not a true friend in those times. Do good business, treat people well, if you are doing good share some and do not gloat to those with less than you. Even the most shady of people would prefer to setup or rob somebody they consider another non trustworthy person.

Id like to think I have been able to live in the grey area between what right and what is legal because I I try to treat fellow humans with respect. At least until I learn the respect is not mutual.

Probably why this thread struck a nerve.

[bigtacofarmer]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Nirvana

Wouldn't it be better if illegal growers were considered to be the hero's of the cannabis industry, and to make amends for all the years of paranoia and persecution upon legalization they could receive government support by quashing any felonies/criminal records they might have attained in all the years they had to grow covertly for cannabis crimes, and government grants to be able to further their business, set up shops and funds/scholarships for further education in horticulture?

After all it is/was a war on this plant and those that dare/dared to grow it should receive reparations for all they have suffered.

The war was lost by the government so they should pay compensation, and exonerate the once illegal growers and award them all purple hearts.

Smartest thing I have read in a few days

[moose eater]

Yep, whether black market or legal biz, that's the best 'way of the walk.' For everyone's sake.

Karma, whether a real or imaginary force, matters. Call it integrity, reputation, or honor, but it is all that remains about us when we compost & feed the earth.. And it will live on a long time after we're gone.

Originally Posted by bigtacofarmer

I have a small handful of friends that I know have had the opportunity to save their own ass by naming someone else, and took their fall. Its hard to predict who and who is not a true friend in those times. Do good business, treat people well, if you are doing good share some and do not gloat to those with less than you. Even the most shady of people would prefer to setup or rob somebody they consider another non trustworthy person.

Id like to think I have been able to live in the grey area between what right and what is legal because I I try to treat fellow humans with respect. At least until I learn the respect is not mutual.

Probably why this thread struck a nerve.

[shaggyballs]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Nirvana

Wouldn't it be better if illegal growers were considered to be the hero's of the cannabis industry, and to make amends for all the years of paranoia and persecution upon legalization they could receive government support by quashing any felonies/criminal records they might have attained in all the years they had to grow covertly for cannabis crimes, and government grants to be able to further their business, set up shops and funds/scholarships for further education in horticulture?

After all it is/was a war on this plant and those that dare/dared to grow it should receive reparations for all they have suffered.

The war was lost by the government so they should pay compensation, and exonerate the once illegal growers and award them all purple hearts.

Well said Gypsy
Instead we are called criminals and low lifes.
Meanwhile judges and ex-DEA take the places we once held.
To me that is the real crime. Jail others, make it legal and fill their void when they are eliminated.

By we I mean we as a culture.