Important! Omega 3/ CB1 connection!

Microbeman · Jul 19, 2011

spurr said:
Hey MM,

Sorry! What's the name of the fish oil you use?

For dogs, it's not good to use whole eggs (raw is worse than cooked), the yolk steals biotin from dogs when they digest it, IIRC. It can make dogs ill if given too many egg yolks over time. I could be wrong about the biotin claim, but I know it's not good for some reason such as that, stealing something they need; I'll find the vet info and post it.

Sadly, many people believe the claim from lots of dog food brands, that they provide Omega-3, but during processing of kibble food types the heat destroys the Omega-3's, etc. (as well as most vitamins, too, that's why I supplement kibble with fish oil, vitamins, herbs, etc.)

It is vitamin E which is degraded in dogs by consumption of too many raw eggs. Many raw food fanatics, refuse to believe this. The eggs cooked with the other ingredients. I use three eggs in a three day supply of food for 4 dogs so not a ton. There are some myths surrounding eggs. BTW I got the diet for the dogs lab tested for protein, nutrients and calcium

hosphorous ratio.

The fish oil is a noname brand from the grocery store.

spurr · Jul 19, 2011

Hey MM,

Great, thanks for info. You sound as big as a dog nut as I!

I try to keep the ideal Ca

ratio, too. I try for Ca

of ~1, or lower. The best food one can buy, kibble style, is from Canada, called "Origen". It's grain free, 80% premium animal ingredients, ideal Ca

ratio because they don't use much animal and fish meal (which are high in Ca from bone, that is why Ca

ratio of most kibble is way too high). To that I add other supplements, but Origen alone is simply amazing, my dogs get the version called "regional poultry, fish & whole eggs formula". I used to home cook my dogs their meals, but it's gotten too expensive and time intensive, in the end I think their health is about the same either route I go (home cooked vs. Origen with supplements).

Okay, sorry for the dog talk ... back to fish

spurr · Jul 19, 2011

Okay, last post for now in this thread ... I wanted to point out a few things from "The definitive fish oil buyer's guide":

When reading the comments section, make sure to read all comments by "Marshall"; his fish oil blog is good, it's here: http://www.fishoilblog.com

RE: DHA effects on brain, as an example of why DHA may be one of the 'things' affecting CB1 receptors (does it tell us, in the full text of the study?)

Hi Chris,

You’re right about Lovaza money grab. It’s an Ethyl Ester no less, which, as the available research shows, has impaired absorption compared to re-esterified triglycerides. However, strangely, you still haven’t corrected your mistake in this “definitive” guide.

Furthermore, reducing omega-3 benefit to simply a balance of omega-6 shows an incomplete understanding of the full function of omega-3s in the body. As a single example, look at the crucial role of DHA in BDNF (brain-derived neurotropic factor), which is responsible for the production of new neurons and repair of damaged neurons in the brain.

What exactly about your guide, with its misinformation, makes it definitive?

~Marshall

RE: bio-availability (absorption and use by body) of ethyl ester form of fish oil vs. natural triglyceride (N-TG) form:

However, keep in mind that the absorption of the natural triglyceride oils (like the Wild Salmon Oil and Fermented Cod Liver Oil below) will be 1.5 times greater than the ethyl ester oils in the supplemental section. As a rule of thumb, all purified and molecularly distilled oils are ethyl esters.

This means you have to take 1.5 times as much of the ethyl ester oils to get the same dose of DHA that you’d get from the natural triglyceride oils. For example, Vital Choice Wild Salmon Oil has 220 mg DHA per serving. To get the same amount of DHA from Jarrow Max DHA, which is an ethyl ester oil, you’d have to take a serving that provides 333 mg of DHA.

RE: bio-availability (absorption and use by body) of natural triglyceride (N-TG) form vs. "re-esterified triglyceride" form (aka "synthetic triglyceride" form):

Bravo! I maintain a blog about fish oil where I chronicle all the latest research on the benefits of omega-3 from fish oil supplements and I have to say that you have some of the best articles on omega-3 I probably have ever come across! (except my own, of course :-D )

Allow me to be the healthy skeptic now and raise a few points:

1. There’s no research that I’m aware of that supports the notion that the absorption of synthetic triglycerides is impaired relative to natural triglycerides. The only mention of this is from Xtend-Life discussing it in the context of supporting their product over other products (and it appears you stumbled across their Buyer’s Guide too… Furthermore, there’s nothing to support the assertion that the carbon bond position of synthetic TG has been altered. If you assume they mean the ester bond, which is where pancreatic lipase acts to break down the triglyceride, then what are our choices for carbon bond positions? Either the carboxyl group has a covalent bond with the first carbon of the fatty acid tail, or it doesn’t. Am I missing something here? I suppose he could mean stereoisomeric triglycerides, but as this study shows, pancreatic lipase doesn’t really care which way the tail bends:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=2610e551662f7d3d1468ec0998344a54

2. It’s interesting to note that the absorption rate of free acids, which aren’t bound to an alcohol base, has been show to be almost twice as high as TG: ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2144420). I suppose they’re probably too unstable to be bottled and sold, however.

3. Krill oil has been touted by people like Dr. Mercola as being free from the toxins that fish are susceptible to, but that’s flat-out wrong according to multiple studies. (such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16183185)

4. There is actually a voluntary testing and certification program called the International fish Oil Standards program, or IFOS. I recommend that people only buy fish oils that have every batch certified by IFOS because they are far more strict than most governing bodies. The reason they’re more strict is because this allows for much higher doses to be taken when trying to treat chronic or severe conditions.

I’m sure I will think of more too.

~Marshall

zymos · Jul 20, 2011

spurr said:
Yup, it's EE form (ethyl ester) and it passed Consumer Lab testing with flying colors:

Thanks for taking the time to research that. :thank you:

How can you tell that it's the EE form tho' (hopefully that isn't staring me right in the face)?

PS- you posted a link that Dr. Mercola was wrong about something?! I'm (sarcastically) SHOCKED!!!!

spurr · Jul 20, 2011

One can tell it is in EE form because it has been molecularly distilled. That means converted from natural triglyceride (N-TG) form into ethyl ester (EE) form, removing impurities and poisons, etc. Yet it hasn't been converted from EE form into re-esterified triglyceride form (aka synthetic triglyceride form); at least to my knowledge.

The following quote, from the web page to which you linked, tells me it's EE, but I could be wrong and it could be RE-TG (aka S-TG):

Super Omega-3 from Life Extension uses a patented EPA/DHA extraction process that results in a pure, stable and easy-to-tolerate fish oil extract. The Pure+™ fish oil used in Super Omega-3 is produced with a patented method that purifies the oil with a highly advanced distillation process to reduce pollutants to virtually undetectable levels. The result is an improved fish oil that exceeds the standards set by international rating agencies.

If a fish oil is said to be concentrated, it's molecularly distilled; this can be seen if the DHA and EPA levels are high per dose. Natural fish oil has much less DHA and EPA per dose than molecularly distilled fish oil, ex., per pill on equal weight basis.

The unstable nature of fatty acids like fish oil limits their biological efficacy in the body. Scientific studies show that when sesame lignans are supplemented with fish oil, the beneficial effects are augmented.

This makes me think it's EE, and not RE-TG, because RE-TG has the highest bio-availability, thus why would they need to add anything to augment the absorption/uptake. I think adding "sesame lignans" would be needed with EE, to get decent amount of uptake, but not RE-TG or N-TG (natural triglycerides).

I like taking fish oils in capsule form, with something like primrose oil or citric acid added to the fish oil by the maker. Being in capsule form (less oxygen) and having additives (like primrose) increases the 'self life' of the fish oil. Overtime fish oil degrades and it's efficacy to provide DHA and EPA is reduced.

I'm unsure if that product you use is enteric coated or not, but I prefer plain coating. Enteric coating is used to avoid 'fish burps', but with very good fish oil, fish burbs aren't a problem IME. I think uptake is better if digestion starts sooner, rather than later. But I have not seen any studies on enteric coated vs. non-enteric coated fish oil with respect to bio-availability and absorption time.

zymos · Jul 20, 2011

I used to take other brands that had lemon oil or other things added to make them less fishy.
I never notice "fish burps" with this product, but I've read that maybe your body gets acclimated over time. I've been taking fish oil for years. They do offer an enteric coated one also.

I used to take flax also, and still give it to my son, a brain tumor survivor, but I'm really into supplements (turmeric, pomegranate, resveratol, etc. etc....) and I have to draw the line somewhere....

spurr · Jul 20, 2011

@ zymos,

Yea, lemon oil is sometimes used for natural fish oils, which can be more 'fishy'. IIRC lemon oil also extends the self life, in terms of efficacy.

To increase the absorption of DHA and EPA from your fish oil, you may want to consider eating a high fat snack a little while before taking your fish oil. I like to eat at least 10 grams of fat before taking fish oil; that's like scoop or two of natural peanut butter.

I wonder how much fat hemp butter holds. That would be neat, a hemp butter snack, then fish oil, to help CB1 receptors

I'm sorry to hear about your son's illness, is he getting better? I bet the EFAs you give him, do help. My dad would have never done that for me, you must be a good dad.

zymos · Jul 20, 2011

He also takes a small amount of another herb, in concentrate form, that has shown some anticancer properties.

He's doing fine, thanks for asking. Has had 2 brain surgeries, which sucks for a 14 year old, but the last one achieved a near total resection. What he has isn't considered malignant, and wont metastasize (unless he gets irradiated, which we'd only do if things got really desperate), so he's better off than many kids with cancer.

But anyway, to stay on topic, Omega 3s are da bomb!!

white_kimbo · Jul 20, 2011

SOTF420 said:
Nice post thanks for that, I'm gonna eat some more sushi today and smoke some grapefruity frosty right now gotta keep those receptors healthy!

i've never heard of grapefruit frosty. strain info plz?

and thank you, OP, for the article and the granny translation. this is really cool info, and confirms some of my suspicions about MMJ and neuropathy. i would have never known about the omega 3 connection though.

once again, very cool!

DoobieDuck · Jul 20, 2011

Granny many thanks for the thread, and thank you everyone who has added valuable information. I'm a day behind reading it all but found it very interesting. I'm not behind on my fish oil...been taking that for years...Be well..DD

quantic_soul · Jul 20, 2011

Spurr,

I eat almond butter in the morning and at night to get the good fats. Hemp seed butter would be interesting too. I'm not sure I've seen that product in stores in my region.

quantic_soul · Jul 20, 2011

Spurr,

Do you take the Ultimate Omega from Nordic Naturals? I see that in the store all the time. I believe I will switch to that from Carlsons Cod Liver Oil based on the reading I have done based on your links. Thanks!

Bionic · Jul 20, 2011

spurr said:
I wanted to make a correction of the author's claim with respect to bio-availability of natural triglyceride vs. ethyl ester vs. synthetic triglyceride. The author claims the following:
"Studies on absorption of the various types of fish oil suggest that, unsurprisingly, the natural triglyceride form is absorbed better than the ethyl ester form, which in turn is absorbed better than the synthetic triglyceride form."
That is false, more current studies show S-TG has higher bio-availability than N-TG and EE. Some info on this point is posted in the comments section, some by yours truly (using a pseudonym); independent academic published studies on this point can be found on the Nordic Naturals web site.

This study, published in 2/11, backs up the claim that EE works less-better (LOL) than regular 'ole natural FO. I would never trust a supplement company to provide studies backing their products. They're obviously biased towards their products, not to mention, they may have "funded" the studies.

Eur J Clin Nutr.

Enhanced increase of omega-3 index in response to long-term n-3 fatty acid supplementation from triacylglycerides versus ethyl esters.
Neubronner J, Schuchardt JP, Kressel G, Merkel M, von Schacky C, Hahn A.
Source
Institute of Food Science and Human Nutrition, Leibniz Universität Hannover, Am Kleinen Felde 30, Hannover, Germany. neubronner@nutrition.uni-hannover.de

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
There is a debate currently about whether different chemical forms of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) are absorbed in an identical way. The objective of this study was to investigate the response of the omega-3 index, the percentage of EPA+DHA in red blood cell membranes, to supplementation with two different omega-3 fatty acid (n-3 FA) formulations in humans.

DESIGN:
The study was conducted as a double-blinded placebo-controlled trial. A total of 150 volunteers was randomly assigned to one of the three groups: (1) fish oil concentrate with EPA+DHA (1.01 g+0.67 g) given as reesterified triacylglycerides (rTAG group); (2) corn oil (placebo group) or (3) fish oil concentrate with EPA+DHA (1.01 g+0.67 g) given as ethyl ester (EE group). Volunteers consumed four gelatine-coated soft capsules daily over a period of six months. The omega-3 index was determined at baseline (t(0)) after three months (t(3)) and at the end of the intervention period (t(6)).

RESULTS:
The omega-3 index increased significantly in both groups treated with n-3 FAs from baseline to t(3) and t(6) (P<0.001). The omega-3 index increased to a greater extent in the rTAG group than in the EE group (t(3): 186 versus 161% (P<0.001); t(6): 197 versus 171% (P<0.01)).

CONCLUSION:
A six-month supplementation of identical doses of EPA+DHA led to a faster and higher increase in the omega-3 index when consumed as triacylglycerides than when consumed as ethyl esters.

PMID: 21063431 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The figure above shows the omega-3 index. The higher the index, the more omega3-fatty acids the blood cells have absorbed. The solid line represents the placebo group, the dotted line the EE group and the dashed line the rTAG group. The supplements containing ordinary fish oil work slightly better than those containing ethyl fish oil fatty acids.

"The results indicate that n-3 FA-rTAG is superior to n-3 FA-EE in view of the EPA/DHA tissues incorporation following a long-term administration", the researchers conclude.

spurr · Jul 20, 2011

@ Bionic,

Nice find, thanks. It's good to see other independent and published studies with respect to bio-availability of re-esterified triacylglycerides ("rTAG" from the study; aka "synethic triacylglycerides") vs. ethyl ester forms.

It's been found that bio-availability hierarchy works as so:

re-esterified triacylglycerides form > natural triacylglycerides form > ethyl ester form

spurr · Jul 20, 2011

quantic_soul said:
Spurr,

Do you take the Ultimate Omega from Nordic Naturals? I see that in the store all the time. I believe I will switch to that from Carlsons Cod Liver Oil based on the reading I have done based on your links. Thanks!

Yes, and my dogs get the Nordic Naturals fish oil for dogs (not the caps).

Microbeman · Jul 21, 2011

Thanks Spurr. I'm going to order some online. I'll email you my recipe for dogfood along with lab tests in a few days.

devilgoob · Aug 23, 2011

stormcrow, a few years back when you REALLY start posting a lot of links.

I believe one was related to the fatty-acid and the anandamide production itself.

So if it tunes the circuit and makes you produce more anadamide, the bliss chemical, then you would have more effect!

Also cannabis seeds have omega-3,6 and 9 which are important and in ratios.

So not only does it trump fish oil on that, it has the 6 and 9's.

Tell me if any food product reads like my hemp seed I have right here:

Total daily recommended per serving:
Fat 15%
Sat fat 3%
OMEGA-3 2g
OMEGA-6 6.2g < those are insane considering the serving is 30g
OMEGA-9 .8g
Cholesterol 0%
Sodium 0%
TOTAL CARB 2%
TOTAL FIBER 6% (1g)
PROTEIN 11g <<<PROTEIN IS MORE THAN A THIRD OF IT'S WEIGHT!
Iron 20%
Potassium 15%
Vitamin E 8%
Thiamine B1 26% (DNA constituent)
Riboflavin B2 21%
Pryoxidine B6
Folic acid 56%
Phosphorus 36%
Zinc 43%
Copper 6%
Manganese 60%

Jesus, just add fruit to your diet and you're good.

If anyone knows anything about vitamins, you might be like B12 is missing....but B1....is there...what?!

I am eating them right now!!!

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Important! Omega 3/ CB1 connection!

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