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Old 05-19-2019, 08:12 PM #41
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Originally Posted by HydroGrowLeds View Post
Can you present me several scientific studies that conclude the optimal amount of UVB for cannabis per square meter? A test that shows where the cutoff between higher THC and lower yields/slower growth begins? Or one that demonstrates exactly how much THC is gained by using UVB opposed to none?

UVB is harmful to human eyes. It is also harmful to plants. It can elicit a specific response if used in appropriate amounts, but over those amounts will cause lowered yields and slower growth (plus damage to human eyes). So if you want to experiment with UVB I suggest buying some CFL style bulbs. Our spectrum has been lab-proven to increase THC/CBD as much as double compared to the same strain grown under HPS. We accomplish this with the aid of 740nm far-red, which has no detrimental effects to humans or plants.



You're only looking at one side of the equation... You're not looking at the ROI or how much our lights pay you back over time in additional yields and electrical savings.

Example:

1lbs of cannabis (wholesale) = $1800 USD

1000W HPS costing $300 produces 1lbs of Cannabis

560W of LED costing $1600 produces 1.5lbs of Cannabis.

A 1000W HPS consumes about 1150W of power, over 2 months on 12/12 at $0.11 per kWh this comes to $92 in electric. 560W of LED is $45.

Our LED light costs $1300 more than HPS. It saves about $47 every grow in electricity and delivers an extra $900 in yield on every harvest (3 months). That's $947 in combined savings/additional profits every 3 months without factoring in veg or AC savings.

After the first harvest with each light, the LED only cost you $353 more when you subtract the savings and additional profits. After the second harvest the LED has paid you an extra $594 that the HID did not. After the first year the LED has given you an extra $2,488 over it's higher investment cost in additional profits and electrical savings.

Every year thereafter our LED puts an extra $3788 back in your pocket over running that HID (or plasma). So the price is nothing compared to how much our lights pay you back over time.



The sun is not a grow light, it's a star. Whoever designed the Universe did not look at the sun and say "I'm designing this solely for plant growth". Thus plants have evolved to filter out wavelengths they don't need/use because sunlight is NOT designed for them. But if you want to buy a plasma light because it's like the sun, that's your choice. Our lights have bested every type of "white" light there is, regardless of how close it is to replicating sunlight. So if you want to keep growing with something that we've beat over and over again, that's your choice. But the only one you're hurting at the end is your plants/yield.
The margins are no where near as wide as what you are stating here and the wholesale prices are probably double reality in california for indoor.
Street price isn't even 18

The thing is top hps growers and especially those seasoned with DE are not getting 1 per light. Most are closer to 2 and some are hitting 3 (not me lol)
The thing is, led in general has not proven to best HPS at G/sq ft. That is what matters. $40 in power here or there? Whatever - a few nugs covers the cost and your not out such a big upfront investment.
I'm not speaking down your products, this is across the whole led board
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:59 PM #42
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Originally Posted by Ibechillin View Post
Notice the similarities between Mr. Sparkle's solstrip x2 led strips build and Samsung led strips? TONS OF DIODES SPREAD OVER THE ENTIRE CANOPY AREA!
I think you need to go back and read post one of this thread. You seem to have forgotten why this thread exists and what we are doing as a company (developing a new SMD panel).

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Originally Posted by Bobby Boucher View Post
I didn't ask about my return on investment, I asked about yours. Not that I'm expecting a straight answer.. but hey.. it's rude to talk about money, isn't it? It's also a bit unseemly to charge someone that kind of premium because "selling pot is profitable".
Selling pot is highly profitable - I ran a dispensary for several years. As a grower if the only thing you value is cost, that says a lot about you. People who's focus is solely on cost, don't care about quality, yield or cycle length. All they care about is getting the cheapest equipment possible. So when our $1600 LEDs beat a $1200 Samsung board from HLG by 1.5-2X the margin, you're saying our price isn't justifiable? I mean my cost to build is over double what the HLG model is, which means they have a HUGE margin compared to us. Our product will give you 1.5-2x the yield per watt, and the plants grow faster so you can do more cycles per year. But I guess an extra 50-100% more yield and more cycles per year isn't worth a 25% difference in startup cost to you. That's perfectly fine, but for anyone who grows for profit, they care about results - and that's who we market to (growers that give a damn). There are also a ton of legal growers these days, so what risks you take to do what you do are on you. The reason you take those risks is because of the high profitability of growing money on trees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneHitDone View Post
The margins are no where near as wide as what you are stating here and the wholesale prices are probably double reality in california for indoor.
Street price isn't even 18
$1800 a pound is still pretty standard over here on the east coast. Regardless of the margin (plug in $1400/lbs if you want), the additional yield and electrical savings add up to putting a lot more back in your pocket than any other light by comparison. Aka - you get what you pay for, or "the bitterness of low quality (yield) lingers long after the sweetness of low cost is gone".

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneHitDone View Post
The thing is top hps growers and especially those seasoned with DE are not getting 1 per light. Most are closer to 2 and some are hitting 3 (not me lol)
And yet how many of these growers exist here on ICMag or RIU? A handful? I'm sure you can count them on two hands or less. What a PRO can do with our lights is a lot different than an amateur, which can be said with any grow light. And well, most growers on forums are here to learn, which makes them amateurs/novices. Very few pros hang out in places like this. So I don't really care what a Pro CAN do, I only care about what they do in a side-by-side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneHitDone View Post
The thing is, led in general has not proven to best HPS at G/sq ft. That is what matters. $40 in power here or there? Whatever - a few nugs covers the cost and your not out such a big upfront investment.
I'm not speaking down your products, this is across the whole led board
I politely disagree. Grow tests from 2009-2010 (yes there are newer ones) show that our products have always beaten HID in GPW, and since the grow areas were identical that also means a higher G/Sq ft. In fact we've never done less than double the GPW in any grow test. So unless you're asserting that the growers featured in the links below are all liars (who started off just like you by winning a light in a giveaway that they used for a journal), we've already shown that HID has been dead now for a decade. It's sad that a decade later people are still arguing the same crap rather than acknowledging the grow tests for what they are: legitimate proof from independent growers that HID has been dead for a long time.

126W Penetrator vs 250W HID: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=165239

Blazeoneup 205W Penetrator vs 400W HID:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....9#post3204389/

Hazy HPS vs LED Grow:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=160147
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:47 PM #43
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In a 15x12 room with two 4x12 flood tables recircualting hydro with 3 single ended 1000w Hortilux HPS on light movers no CO2 supplementation I yielded consistently over 2lbs per light since my first grow 8 years ago, quality and yield are there under HPS with much lower startup investment.
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For almost 50 years I've smoked weed to enhance reality, not to escape from it...
Playing around outdoors again (current grow 2019 starts on post #75):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352271

Science Of Lighting & Plant Reactions (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

Pot Size, Root system and maximizing growth thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

Silicon, The Misunderstood Element:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

Humic and Fulvic acid information:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265

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Old 05-20-2019, 10:49 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroGrowLeds View Post
I think you need to go back and read post one of this thread. You seem to have forgotten why this thread exists and what we are doing as a company (developing a new SMD panel).



Selling pot is highly profitable - I ran a dispensary for several years. As a grower if the only thing you value is cost, that says a lot about you. People who's focus is solely on cost, don't care about quality, yield or cycle length. All they care about is getting the cheapest equipment possible. So when our $1600 LEDs beat a $1200 Samsung board from HLG by 1.5-2X the margin, you're saying our price isn't justifiable? I mean my cost to build is over double what the HLG model is, which means they have a HUGE margin compared to us. Our product will give you 1.5-2x the yield per watt, and the plants grow faster so you can do more cycles per year. But I guess an extra 50-100% more yield and more cycles per year isn't worth a 25% difference in startup cost to you. That's perfectly fine, but for anyone who grows for profit, they care about results - and that's who we market to (growers that give a damn). There are also a ton of legal growers these days, so what risks you take to do what you do are on you. The reason you take those risks is because of the high profitability of growing money on trees.



$1800 a pound is still pretty standard over here on the east coast. Regardless of the margin (plug in $1400/lbs if you want), the additional yield and electrical savings add up to putting a lot more back in your pocket than any other light by comparison. Aka - you get what you pay for, or "the bitterness of low quality (yield) lingers long after the sweetness of low cost is gone".



And yet how many of these growers exist here on ICMag or RIU? A handful? I'm sure you can count them on two hands or less. What a PRO can do with our lights is a lot different than an amateur, which can be said with any grow light. And well, most growers on forums are here to learn, which makes them amateurs/novices. Very few pros hang out in places like this. So I don't really care what a Pro CAN do, I only care about what they do in a side-by-side.



I politely disagree. Grow tests from 2009-2010 (yes there are newer ones) show that our products have always beaten HID in GPW, and since the grow areas were identical that also means a higher G/Sq ft. In fact we've never done less than double the GPW in any grow test. So unless you're asserting that the growers featured in the links below are all liars (who started off just like you by winning a light in a giveaway that they used for a journal), we've already shown that HID has been dead now for a decade. It's sad that a decade later people are still arguing the same crap rather than acknowledging the grow tests for what they are: legitimate proof from independent growers that HID has been dead for a long time.

126W Penetrator vs 250W HID: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=165239

Blazeoneup 205W Penetrator vs 400W HID:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....9#post3204389/

Hazy HPS vs LED Grow:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=160147
I'm not saying the grow "tests" in those links are legit, bullshit, or other.
What I can say is they are a decade old, incomplete, not appearing to disclose all perimeters, etc. and many see them as not too believable.
What we have seen in the last 5 years is a lot of forum growers post journals running "blurple" and almost all other forms of led and when the dust settled the most people with "results" appear to be coming from lights based on white led's.
I know you are a company that has been around quite a while but these forums change members more than some change their underwear so unfortunately the bourdon is on you to show new side by sides and even more important than "2x the yield" etc, is just seeing multiple growers succeeding and enjoying using the product. Ease of use probably trumps "2x the yield" in almost every case especially when it comes to the home grower.
I am doing my part to honestly represent your product in real time here in 2019
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:56 PM #45
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And those claim 4X yield of HPS is pretty much exaggerating..
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:49 PM #46
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It all sounds very interesting and advanced to an old hps grower like me... I’m only just trying my first led now and I’m surprised at the brightness!
I must just point out that not all of us grow for money- personally I grow for medicine for myself, my wife and a very sick relative.... so we’re no all rich weed-barons
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Well they tell me ‘bout the pie up in the sky,
Waiting for me when I die
But between the day you’re born and when you die,
They never seem to hear even your cry.
So as soon as the sun
Will shine,
I'm gonna get my share of
What's mine.
And then the harder they come ,
The harder they fall,
One and all.

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Put out the joint, step away from the computer and go for a walk.

Mars hydro ts1000 test- https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=362526

csg triangle cheesedog x London church testers- https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=362387
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:02 AM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.brunch View Post
It all sounds very interesting and advanced to an old hps grower like me... I’m only just trying my first led now and I’m surprised at the brightness!
I must just point out that not all of us grow for money- personally I grow for medicine for myself, my wife and a very sick relative.... so we’re no all rich weed-barons
Yes, I know many on the forums these days are not for-profit growers. Many years ago there were far more here for that purpose. But whether you're growing your own meds or food in your garden for your family, yield and quality still mean something.

One of the goals in building this new light is to bring manufacturing costs down. SMD LEDs are substantially cheaper per watt than the 3W LEDs used in our X3 models. Because they are driven at lower current, they should also be more efficient. The SMD panel will use less parts (no casing, no fans, no fan driver, no X-lens) which also makes it cheaper to build. And for anyone not growing for profit, I acknowledge that cost is a major deciding factor. I want to eliminate that factor from the equation. If you can buy a 600W light from us for say $1200 vs a 550W light from HLG, and our lights give you double the yield (which for a SMD panel should be pretty easy), then who in their right mind is going to buy HLG? Same cost but half the yield and slower growth?

There will still be DIY growers out there building their panels for less than you can buy a pre-packaged option, but not everyone wants to make their own lights either. Sometimes it's easier to get one from a company like ours with a 5-year warranty and professional build quality. Can't wait till the LEDs get here tomorrow so the first step in product development can be underway!
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:18 AM #48
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I tryed to google,cant find any comparison test on your lights against HLG quantum board
or any results..

why you claim your light is 2 times better,those links you showed are old and still
folks claim HPS beated LED.. it was actually MH bulb in those first link..
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:19 AM #49
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i have been reading on other forums. there is lots of people selling diy samsung led bars a 370watt setup is £299 and they sell out all the time he has stock in so lots of people are interested in growing with Leds
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:47 AM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HydroGrowLeds View Post
Yes, I know many on the forums these days are not for-profit growers. Many years ago there were far more here for that purpose. But whether you're growing your own meds or food in your garden for your family, yield and quality still mean something.

One of the goals in building this new light is to bring manufacturing costs down. SMD LEDs are substantially cheaper per watt than the 3W LEDs used in our X3 models. Because they are driven at lower current, they should also be more efficient. The SMD panel will use less parts (no casing, no fans, no fan driver, no X-lens) which also makes it cheaper to build. And for anyone not growing for profit, I acknowledge that cost is a major deciding factor. I want to eliminate that factor from the equation. If you can buy a 600W light from us for say $1200 vs a 550W light from HLG, and our lights give you double the yield (which for a SMD panel should be pretty easy), then who in their right mind is going to buy HLG? Same cost but half the yield and slower growth?

There will still be DIY growers out there building their panels for less than you can buy a pre-packaged option, but not everyone wants to make their own lights either. Sometimes it's easier to get one from a company like ours with a 5-year warranty and professional build quality. Can't wait till the LEDs get here tomorrow so the first step in product development can be underway!
They have certainly come a long way, and given the choice and budget I would probably convert fully to led- much lower power costs, less heat issues. The one I’m testing now is only 150w , but seeing the brightness I’d say 2 of them would flood a 1 sq/m tent plenty... at only half the wattage of my 600 hps
__________________
"read the directions, even if you dont follow them.."

https://www.jackherer.com/thebook/

Originally posted by jimmy cliff:

Well they tell me ‘bout the pie up in the sky,
Waiting for me when I die
But between the day you’re born and when you die,
They never seem to hear even your cry.
So as soon as the sun
Will shine,
I'm gonna get my share of
What's mine.
And then the harder they come ,
The harder they fall,
One and all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post

Put out the joint, step away from the computer and go for a walk.

Mars hydro ts1000 test- https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=362526

csg triangle cheesedog x London church testers- https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=362387
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