Is Powdery Mildew Systemic?

BongRipkenJR. · Apr 25, 2011

grapeman said:
Mildew IS NOT systemic. It is a spore borne disease. There were some here in their own mildew threads claiming that it is systemic. They are wrong and passing around bad information.

But why do you ask?

If you have it, kill it. If you don't, prevent it. Elite, Bayleton, Flint, Eagle, Rally, Pristine.... et al are all fungicides. I'm sure you can get Eagle. You'll need a permit to get the others or a friend in the Ag business.

Its weird, I haven't found anything saying it wasn't and a lot of speculation saying it was, but the only cures for it systemic fungicides. I know some plants are resistant, but I had a perfectly clean garden with a tray of u2 Kush. I brought in a rock lock from organican and 2 weeks into flowering it had powdery mildew and nothing else did. The temps in the room were very consistent and I had plenty of light and ventilation at the plants base and canopy. Water was filter with a small boy filter. It just seemed like it was an internal disease. Almost like once that plant has it, it and its clones will always have it unless you use a systemic fungicide like eagle. I am more than likely wrong though.

Phillthy · Apr 25, 2011

it is not systemic but think of plants that are prone to it as having an immune system deficiency. thats why some plants get it and some do not.

mysophilia · Apr 25, 2011

PM is not systemic. A few have gotten it right, it is a spore... When the spore is searching for food they become systemic. They send little feeder tubes into the plant or the( vacuole cell) were all the plants nutrients are stored and begins to have a field day.. It begins to party like its 1989, and destroys all your plants food sources.. This is done by the PM spreading to every leaf it can find and sucks the life outta your plants...........

303hydro · Apr 25, 2011

Epiphyte · Apr 25, 2011

Greenmatter, grapeman and pondelfthndside.....thanks so much for your input...I was pretty sure it was not systemic but I really just needed to talk it out...I am scared to introduce new clones even if they are clean..but I now realize...if I do it, then I need to have a quarantine box...

Pondelfthndside-- when you quarantine, do you treat them as if they were infected or do you wait a couple of weeks to see if anything shows up?
Thanks
Phyte

turbo14 · Apr 26, 2011

compost said:
I had some PM in flowering and it has only been on my white rhino. The white rhino is more indica then my other strains. The plants are shorter and very dense making it easier for PM to get going since its harder to get a good coat of neem oil on the inside leafs. The PM has not moved over to my church, himalayan gold, or my blueberry.

I am about to go with some eagle20 though so I can get rid of it for good.

Please read the label on Eagle 20, this is a systemic fungicide and will stay with the plant for up to 30 days. This should only be used in the veg room and VERY early flowering period only.

If in flowering, I suggest rotating Green Cure and Serenade.

Good luck

turbo

grapeman · Apr 26, 2011

BongRipkenJR. said:
Its weird, I haven't found anything saying it wasn't and a lot of speculation saying it was, but the only cures for it systemic fungicides. I know some plants are resistant, but I had a perfectly clean garden with a tray of u2 Kush. I brought in a rock lock from organican and 2 weeks into flowering it had powdery mildew and nothing else did. The temps in the room were very consistent and I had plenty of light and ventilation at the plants base and canopy. Water was filter with a small boy filter. It just seemed like it was an internal disease. Almost like once that plant has it, it and its clones will always have it unless you use a systemic fungicide like eagle. I am more than likely wrong though.

The confusion comes from how "systemic fungicides" work, and then folks confuse the word systemic with PM. Systemic fungicides deliver the active ingredient into the plant where it offers protection for 14 to 21 days (usually). PM is not systemic as it does not enter the plant and circulate within the plant and re-surface as an infection elsewhere. Spores are air borne and easily cause infections where ever it finds a hospitable host.

As side note. Even though most modern fungicides are systemic, they also will not move very much if at all within the plant. Only offering protection where they were sprayed. This is why full coverage (tops, bottoms and stems) is important. Once applied, they will offer protection to that area but offer little to growing tips.

Scrogerman · Apr 26, 2011

I have to agree with the Grapeman 100% on this! I think inducing SAR would help too! some strains/pheno's are gonna be subseptible to infection anyway!

Gert Lush · Apr 26, 2011

This is my understanding too, greenmatter.
I.e. it is very persistent, but NOT systemic.

I have had badly infected plants. By taking good care of them, spraying (with little more than soap solution, I might add) they returned to health. I then took clones off them, ditched the originals, and have not seen the PM since. Clones now flowering nicely, with no hint of PM.
They wouldn't be if it was systemic, would they?
Further, they do not even seem particularly prone to PM, there's lots of it around on other (non-canna) plants, but the canna is just fine.

greenmatter said:
from what i have read in robert c. clarks book "hemp pests and diseases" PM is not systemic. it can get its organs "into" a plant but it does not spread that way. it can only spread on the surface. its reproductive organs "dig in" and are almost impossible to kill with sprays that are not systemic (eagle 20) or somewhat translaminar (dutch master saturator/penetrator mixed with zone).

DoobieDuck · Apr 26, 2011

Thanks for the Help Guys!

Thanks for the Help Guys!

HighDesertJoe said:
I live in the desert the only time I've had problems with PM is outdoors on my roses and it was from over watering.
Good Luck

Hey I'm like Joe, a desert dweller. I've never had PM on my pot until last year when I grew in my greenhouse, and then not until fall when the temps dropped to freezing at night and I closed it up tight. That caused me problems as the humidity went sky high night and day, and the PM loved it, so did the mites, then our good friend Bud Rot stopped by my Malawi plant to visit.
This fall I intend to take some of your advice and try some of the Eagle 20, plus open up the doors and windows in my greenhouse, wide open, durring the day. Only closing them on the iffy 32 or lower nights. I may even add a good fan to dry things out more. I also will spray as little water inside it as possible, using only drippers to water the girls.
Great thread, been lurking, lots of good advice and knowledge here, thanks DD

Herborizer · Apr 26, 2011

Grapeman knows what he talking about.

Eagle20 just plainly works. It's incredibly cheap. You use it only once and never see pm again. For me eagle20 is the healthy choice. I don't like spraying crap and/or getting mold on my Meds. We are trying to feel beter not get more sick.

P.s. All the people posting on this thread who say environment conditions are the cause and cure are flat wrong. I have had perfect stability of env, and still the dreaded pm florishes. Even in 20% rh.

Epiphyte · Apr 26, 2011

Good looking out, herborizer..

Epiphyte · Apr 26, 2011

I know my friend uses a penetrator plus neem mix...has anyone used this combo?...I know some people rotate this out with the eagle, but I use wondering if someone has used penetrator on its own...it seems less hazardous than eagle 20, but I am probably wrong about that.

He used it all season last year and had great luck until the kids from up the hill, whose parent had awful pm, came and ran around in his greenhouse..

Of course, the pure kush got it the worst. And the royal kush was a lot more resistant.

PondeLftHndSide · Apr 26, 2011

There seems to be disagreement over the systemic nature of PM. I am definitely not an 'expert' on the subject, so I cannot declare PM truly 'systemic' with certainty (which I kind of already did in a previous post). So I guess I'll change my 'position' - perhaps it is not truly 'systemic' in a dictionary-definition sense, but it sure as hell acts like it when it's in your garden.

In the scenario from my previous post, I was extremely diligent with my preventative spraying - the clones got a full dunk in a bucket of neem/spreader at planting time, then were thoroughly sprayed from stem to tip every 3 days for almost 4 solid weeks, rotating sprays each time. Even with the triple-whammy preventative spray rotation and my environment being completely dialed, that shit came back with a vengeance. Some branches ended up completely covered in PM spores, packed down in the buds, ugly shit. Even though I was on it the whole time.

Regardless of it's true nature, I'm sure we can all agree it is fucking nasty stuff. Thank God for Eagle20. And gloves. I prefer to mix a small bucket and dunk the plants whenever possible so I don't have to atomize it. Even at 2ml/Gallon, that is a seriously chemmy smelling concoction. Pungent shit. Anyone who's used E20 knows what I'm talking about. It smells like someone getting their hair bleached while spraying Raid and melting plastic wrap.

grapeman · Apr 26, 2011

Doobieduck said:
Hey I'm like Joe, a desert dweller. I've never had PM on my pot until last year when I grew in my greenhouse, and then not until fall when the temps dropped to freezing at night and I closed it up tight. That caused me problems as the humidity went sky high night and day, and the PM loved it, so did the mites, then our good friend Bud Rot stopped by my Malawi plant to visit.
This fall I intend to take some of your advice and try some of the Eagle 20, plus open up the doors and windows in my greenhouse, wide open, durring the day. Only closing them on the iffy 32 or lower nights. I may even add a good fan to dry things out more. I also will spray as little water inside it as possible, using only drippers to water the girls.
Great thread, been lurking, lots of good advice and knowledge here, thanks DD

I too am a desert dweller. I too bring in outside air. This is where we bring spores into our area. Humidity has little to do with PM. Good air movement and a bit of protection goes a long ways.

Also, water kills PM spores. Before we had the modern day fungicides, our only cure was prevention. This included weekly sprays of wettable sulfur with a good spreader so everything got wet. Everything from tops of leaves to bottoms of leaves. The sulfur did not kill the mildew (the water did... on contact), but if we got 92+ degree days, the sulfur fumes would contribute to the PM kill. Other ranches were grown under sprinkler where a daily irrigation washed off and killed spores. Even though this field was more "humid" then others due to the constant evaporation of moisture, we never had PM, and sprayed sulfur less often. Then in the early '80's came designer fungicides.

I use a fungicide ONLY when I see PM, which is maybe every other year.

I do a foliar spray several times a week (epsom salts, ewc tea or other products). The key is wetting everything. Water, on contact, will KILL spores and keep your plants disease free and happy. The plants love the extra attention/nutes and it also has the added benefit of never giving PM a chance to enter the garden. If I ever see PM, I spray everything with a systemic fungicide, but I very rarely need to do this.

If you plant an heirloom rose in your garden, which are very susceptible to PM, you can use this as an indicator to inform you as to when PM pressure is high. Remember, you are bringing these spores into your garden with the outside air, so this will help you know when to be extra vigilant.

greenmatter · Apr 27, 2011

Epiphyte said:
I know my friend uses a penetrator plus neem mix...has anyone used this combo?...I know some people rotate this out with the eagle, but I use wondering if someone has used penetrator on its own...it seems less hazardous than eagle 20, but I am probably wrong about that.

He used it all season last year and had great luck until the kids from up the hill, whose parent had awful pm, came and ran around in his greenhouse..

Of course, the pure kush got it the worst. And the royal kush was a lot more resistant.

i have never used penetrator on it's own. the way i understand it the product is just a super wetting agent, so you would have to put something in it that kills or controls PM. i had great success with the penetrator and zone combo. then i got a clone that had some kind of PM that i could not kill ..... which lead me to the eagle 20.

penetrator is much less toxic than eagle 20 but it does not work near as well.

hempluvr · Apr 27, 2011

Doobieduck said:
Hey I'm like Joe, a desert dweller. I've never had PM on my pot until last year when I grew in my greenhouse, and then not until fall when the temps dropped to freezing at night and I closed it up tight. That caused me problems as the humidity went sky high night and day, and the PM loved it, so did the mites, then our good friend Bud Rot stopped by my Malawi plant to visit.
This fall I intend to take some of your advice and try some of the Eagle 20, plus open up the doors and windows in my greenhouse, wide open, durring the day. Only closing them on the iffy 32 or lower nights. I may even add a good fan to dry things out more. I also will spray as little water inside it as possible, using only drippers to water the girls.
Great thread, been lurking, lots of good advice and knowledge here, thanks DD

D Double,you will be overly happy with the E20,I use it now as a preventive in veg and IF I ever see any in flower I use Greencure. I rarely have to use the Greencure as the E20 works flawlessly. I posted a link above that talks about the E20,check it out. Hope it helps ya,stay safe and keep it GreeN!!

DoobieDuck · Apr 27, 2011

Another big thank you..

Another big thank you..

Thanks again troops, you're going to save me!

Herborizer said:
P.s. All the people posting on this thread who say environment conditions are the cause and cure are flat wrong.

Herb thanks for your clarification. I didn't know for sure why it worsened, I only saw the changes in my humidity levels and the increase in the PMD coincide.

grapeman said:
I too am a desert dweller. I too bring in outside air. This is where we bring spores into our area. Humidity has little to do with PM. Good air movement and a bit of protection goes a long ways.

If you plant an heirloom rose in your garden, which are very susceptible to PM, you can use this as an indicator to inform you as to when PM pressure is high.

Great advice brotha..I have some roses that suffer as well, probably how my cannabis crop got infested to begin with.

hempluvr said:
I posted a link above that talks about the E20,check it out.

Hempluvr many thanks...I'm takin it all in, thank you all. DD

Hashmasta-Kut · Dec 31, 2014

its possible to completely get rid of PM without this systemic chemical, just saying, for all those who seem to believe the eagle stuff is essential.

Mikell · Dec 31, 2014

The next time I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'll use the Caps Lock key to convince people otherwise...

Grapeman, 420247, muchas gracias for putting actual science ahead of stoner/bro science!

818, would you care to explain how PM moves systemically throughout the plant? Or how altering environment in favour of PM is going to solve anything? And to provide sources for your information. Preferably not from a website with 420 in the address. What you're pushing is contrary to accepted understanding in the greater AG community.

Is Powdery Mildew Systemic?

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