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Homemade Cal-Mag

Ulysses

Member
Let me lay out the scenario first-

10-12 week sativas outdoors in pots half buried in the bog. Promix, EWC, Perlite, Mychorrizae and Espoma Garden Lime (Pelletized)...

I am seeing early symptoms of "praying for Mg", and the plants have lost the healthy rich green color despite Maxicrop and light 8-3-1 guano top dressings... Also, the soil has been fairly wet for some time due to the storms we've been having every other day- another complication...

I'm beginning to think I don't have enough lime in the soil mix and/or it's breaking down too slow and/or it wasn't evenly distributed in the soil mix...

Based on BurnOne's recommendation (and the fact that pounding lime pellets get's old fast) I scored some Soil Doctorx Pulverized Garden Lime- a finely screened dolomitic lime product- 40lbs for less than $4.00 USD- Oh, how I love those old time hardware stores!

What I want to do is make some homemade CalMag in a gallon jug. Should I just put 2 T Lime in warm water and shake well perhaps a pinch of kelp and guano???

What is the correct dosage for 5-6 gallons of soil in containers??? Remember, some lime is already in there- but it's slow release...

What is the retail version of Cal-Mag made of anyway???

Any help appreciated...
 
G

Guest

Ulysses said:
What is the retail version of Cal-Mag made of anyway???
calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, & iron EDTA

What's the "praying for mg"? If you're talking about the leaves not being as perky as usual, it's probably just the rain taking oxygen from the roots and replacing with water.
 
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C21H30O2

I have ridden the mighty sandworm.
Veteran
just add the dolomite lime to a ewc tea bubble for a few days with molasses should help.
 

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Mixing dolomite with water won't work.
Mix 1 to 2 teaspoon Epsom Salts with 1 gallon of water and pour it on the soil. Water normally and mix more if 1 gallon isn't enough.

Burn1
 
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Ulysses

Member
BurnOne, you seem the most knowledgable on the lime subject-

Does the lime not dissolve readily in water??? I thought Epsom salt was MgSO4- is there (any/enough) Calcium in there?

I already mixed EWC, Guano, Kelp, Mo and 2 T of the Lime per gallon of tap water... Can't really tell if it's dissolved- there is always a little crap at the bottom... Made 2 gallons... Guess the tomatoes will be loving it?

I'll make some new tea tonight with the salts... Argh!


@Even-Steven, "praying for Mg" is a term used when the leaves of your plant begin to fold in on themselves like the pages of a closing book or like hands folding in prayer...
 

jaykush

dirty black hands
ICMag Donor
Veteran
ahhh dont add epsom salts to the soil. if your going to fix a mg deficiency foliar spray it on the leaves lightly over the next week. once every few days. and when i say light i mean light. its better to do little but often than all at once and burn the plant.


IF you need calcium and have stinging nettles around theres your easy safe fix. it grows naturally in a lot of places in the states and in europe. take some fresh leaves, put them in a pot, bring to a simmer like your making a morning tea to drink(NOT BOIL). let simmer for 10-15. strain dilute 1:15-1:20 and apply. this will also give you a slight boost in N and other helpfull nutrients and the calcium you need. ive done this tons of times to help just what you need and also to fix tomatoes from blossom end rot.
 

Scay Beez

Active member
Azomite, molasses, compost, vermicompost, & seaweed. Jaykush is right on the nettles... nettles are awesome! A natural antihistamine for those with allergies also. White oak bark, tricalcium phosphate (eggshells soaked in vinegar), and the high calcium seaweed Suby uses would be other options.

- sbz
 

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Ulysses-
jaykush is right about foliar feeding with Epsom Salts. But I'm not sure about burning the plants if you pour it on the roots.
Burn1
 

jaykush

dirty black hands
ICMag Donor
Veteran
its not really that burn one. if you add too much to the soil it could A. burn the roots and the plant OR B. cause a soil lockout keeping some nutrients held up and causing a downspiral of deficiencies. foliar spraying lightly over a week or so is much safer imo. but you CAN use it on the soil if you keep it light.
 

Ulysses

Member
It's clear there are several ways to solve this problem...

This is a guerilla grow and I can't really hang out too long in the location without arousing curiosity... And I try- try hard- to stay out of the patch so I don't munch down a trail right to the plants... Every trip counts.

Plants are getting somewhat pale, losing lower leaves that yellow and drop off, lost some vigor, and a few fan leaves on each plant are doing the 'praying thing'... It's not an emergency yet- I want to head off any problems...

Now, making tea out of stinging nettles is great- I've probably weedwacked dozens of these nettles in my backyard yet couldn't spot one if I sat on it... It's interesting and DIY and inexpensive to boot, but not an option at this time... I will try to identify some nettles in the future, however...

Also, I fear the Epsom salts. I can't spray the foliage for several days- gotta get in, do it, get out fast... I'm also leary about the sulfur content and salt thing... These plants have been in veg since March and I don't want to blow it now cause it's too late to start over...

If I top dress with pulverized lime and perhaps soak it in with some Liquid Karma? How long would it take to effect the plant if at all???
 

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Ulysses said:
If I top dress with pulverized lime and perhaps soak it in with some Liquid Karma? How long would it take to effect the plant if at all???
Won't work Dude, sorry.
 
I've used Epsom Salts dissolved in water with no problems and have READ NOT TRYED mixing it in the soil. So.... Maybe mix a little in water and see what happens. A little more than they're getting now is better than nothing right.
 

Ulysses

Member
I made a jump into the patch this evening and everything was soaking wet-- Well, what did you expect in a bog? :bashhead:

First, I've decided I'm not going to add anything at the moment... I think the root mass is sitting in water causing the lack of vigour and loss of color... It may also be screwing up the nute uptake... If it doesn't dry out soon, I'll have to pack in some bricks? or something to temporarily lift the pots out of the holes to drain... This blows the stealth/camoflauge factor quite a bit... Longer term, I'll have to pack in more pea gravel and elevate the pots if it ultimately proves too wet or variable in this location- I've pulled off two successful harvests here- it's never been this wet...

Second, I retrieved a 55gallon drum liner with gallon jugs and nutes stashed on site... In there was a gallon ziplock of EWC with Espoma Garden Lime pellets in it mixed at about 2 to 1. I was using this to topdress- used about half a gallon (opted for less is more)... Upon examination, the pellets had softened to where I could totally disintegrate them between two fingers. Other pellets were still somewhat hard, the tiniest pellets seem to have dissolved... (Also, nice clumps of hyphae had formed- basically confirming the bioactivity of the Walmart DMF Earthworm Castings...) This leads me to believe that Espoma Garden Lime won't be a total failure and may just be too slow release for our purposes/plants- especially if you're growing an early flowering indica... To be fair, Espoma's Garden Lime has various 'meshes' of lime pellets in the bag- from BB sized to dust- accounting for the timed release I suppose... I'd recommend buying it if you can't find any other form of dolomitic lime- it's served me well in the past AND, it's better than no lime at all... You may have to crush it up a bit- kinda like pounding salt...

Lastly, the Pulverized Limestone is dust. It's like flour... Shouldn't a certain amount be soluble in water? I may have to experiment more...

I will tell you this, I'm never going to mix soil without putting the lime as priority #1 again...
 

lilo

Member
I do and that is way too much salt. It could also easily lead to cal lock. Cal/Mag is not what epsom salts is to start with. Besides, cal/mag should be in right proportion.
 

Suby

**AWD** Aficianado
Veteran
Scay Beez said:
Azomite, molasses, compost, vermicompost, & seaweed. Jaykush is right on the nettles... nettles are awesome! A natural antihistamine for those with allergies also. White oak bark, tricalcium phosphate (eggshells soaked in vinegar), and the high calcium seaweed Suby uses would be other options.

- sbz

great to have you back :cool:
 

BurnOne

No damn given.
ICMag Donor
Veteran
lilo said:
I do and that is way too much salt. It could also easily lead to cal lock. Cal/Mag is not what epsom salts is to start with. Besides, cal/mag should be in right proportion.
He said he was having a magnesium deficiency. 1 to 2 tsp./gal. Epsom Salts will fix it in organic growing.
Burn1
 

guineapig

Active member
Veteran
This is an incredibly important topic......the Cal-Mag products that are available in grow stores have never worked well enough......Calcium and Magnesium are so important that they are considered "Secondary Nutrients".....

If you have access to a health food store, i would try to find the most "bio-available" Calcium/Magnesium supplement.....now i have not investigated this option yet, because i finally found another option that provides almost instantaneous Calcium and Magnesium to your plants......you can either use it as a foliar spray or add directly to the roots.....here is my secret:

(taken from another post of mine)

I gave up on Botanicare's Cal-Mag product......even Technaflora's "MagiCal" product seems to be the exact same formula....

However, do not despair my Cal-Mag deficient friends!!!

I have finally discovered an awesome product, and it is available at your local grocery store!!!!

The name of this product is "Sanfaustino" brand mineral water.....it contains 9% Calcium and 8% Magnesium and lists the pH as 5.9......you can use it on the roots, and it also makes a wonderful foliar-feed application.....

http://www.sanfaustino.com/composition.html

For some reason, the plants only respond to Sanfaustino.......they perk up and begin to grow at an accelerated rate......the plants will not respond to Botanicare's "Cal-Mag" product.....

Now for some of you with larger numbers of plants, it might not be economical to buy Sanfaustino water, as it costs around 1.50 dollars per Liter or so.......but, if you have a few bucks to spare, try it on your plants and i guarantee you will notice a difference.....

I must admit, i am quite upset at these garden companies.....they seem to be making Calcuim/Magnesium supplements that my plants absolutely will not absorb.....i don't know if its the molecular structure, or how the Cal and Mag are derived, or whatever, but all i know is that the Sanfaustino mineral water is like an instant shot of Calcium and Magnesium directly into the plant whereas the Botanicare product does absolutely nothing......this makes me upset because Calcium and Magnesium are very important nutrients, and should be considered "secondary" nutrients rather than "micro-nutrients" because of their great importance in proper plant growth......

Hopefully someone will find a more readily bio-available form of Calcium and Magnesium.....my suspicion is that it will come from an "organic" sorce, perhaps some sort of geologic deposit that has these 2 elements locked into a certain molecular formation......

I am shocked and appalled that we do not have access to an effective Cal/Mag product.....so many people have had problems with Botanicare's Cal/Mag that you would think they would re-formulate the product.....

Hopefully i will find the kind of Cal/Mg product i am looking for.....someday.....

I have not yet tried the Cal/Mg supplements that are marketed for human consumption, but there are many brands of these and some claim to be more bio-available than others so i guess that is the next place to investigate....

kind regards from guineapig
 
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