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Let's talk about salt buildup.

R

rykus

Member
When the burn goes around the edge like that it's calcium def... might be lots in the coco but it locks out easy... in my experience most feed is way heavy on k so builds up salt (k has a strong charge and tends to hold onto anions)... just hit a 2.25 av. Using 50 ml micro 50 bloom 250 Cali magic. 1 tbs Epsom 1 tbs 0-50-30 1 tbs super natural super boost and 3 tbs gypsum... 800 ppm 1.3 ec ish and just a dribble of run out.

Can add a tbs more booster during bloom but match with tbs gypsum...

CAn up the Epsom if they dry out too fast...

BEST to add one ingredient at a time and work out what your adding... lots of bottles are same thing... easy to build up toxic levels if your just adding stuff... even feed charts are usually a bit bad imo
 
S

Student Of Life

Member
stoned40yrs said:
That's a lockout, my guess it has nothing to do with feed but it's ph related. You use pen or drops to test? Use drops.
Click to expand...

pH is always between 5.7-6.0. I use a bluelab pen, but also have drops and they coincide with the pen.

rykus said:
just hit a 2.25 av. Using 50 ml micro 50 bloom 250 Cali magic. 1 tbs Epsom 1 tbs 0-50-30 1 tbs super natural super boost and 3 tbs gypsum... 800 ppm 1.3 ec ish and just a dribble of run out.

Can add a tbs more booster during bloom but match with tbs gypsum...

CAn up the Epsom if they dry out too fast...
Click to expand...

What is 'av'? And 50mLs per how many gallons? That's alot of stuff I don't have brother. I only have Canna Coco AB and calimagic, along with a few additives like SM90, roots excel, and protekt.
 
R

rykus

Member
Average... I was mixing in a blue 55gal.. 200 l res ...

right canna...

Well Cali magic is a great start but has no p or k so if ya get 1 ec of Cali magic probably around 300ppm cal 100 mg an 75 n so you need around and about 75 ppm of p and 50 of k...and micros.. up to you how you get it in there... and the n still high for me against ca an mg...

Up to you how you get the nutrients ... all the same shit... canna Zyme got a good 2:1 p:k... just shoot for 50+ ca 15+mg 8-10 n p s and 4-5 k if ya break it down into parts...

Probably not written the clearest but it's like finding an average add up all the numbers on the jugs, then divide by parts/amounts of jugs.

Or use you meter and do the math by ppm of res...

Sm90 is good for the sulfer.. protek is good for silica,help move the ca and buffer ph.. but K is probably already high so I'd be going pretty light with that unless you can find another way to balance the p:k balance... k is toxic if top nugs are smaller than those below them..

If run out is staying fairly consistent with feed ph wise I would bump up into the 6-6.2 bracket, 62*f... more available imo a bit higher 6.4 at the roots is ideal imo...ph up and down is not as nice for roots as food so I try to use silica as ph up and nitrogen or phosphorus as ph down....
 
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M

maimunji

Active member
Student Of Life said:
Yeah whatever symptoms I'm seeing aren't going away. I've tried .5 EC base and supplementing calmag. I've tried 1.4 EC base and no calmag. I've tried running off twice a day. I've tried running off only once every other day. I can't figure this out. I measured runoff just now and the ppms were the same as the nutes, meaning it's probably not even salt buildup. What in the world is this?

It's only happening on the lowest leaves, and only on fan leaves, never newer growth/node tips. It works its way up the plant, consuming the next fan leaves in line. It's a sort of crusty yellowy-burning of the leaf edges, which advances from yellow to straight rust that crumbles at your finger tips. Tops of plants are all green and not nute burned, but the bottom feeding symptoms never go away, they just keep advancing upwards as the plants grow taller.

Edit - And I've always used drip clean.
Click to expand...
Looks like classic k def.
 
S

Student Of Life

Member
Asslover said:
What do the roots look like? Thick & white or thin & brownish?
Click to expand...

Gnarly, thick, and white. They've really exploded this round after I decided to experiment with VAM.

rykus said:
Well Cali magic is a great start but has no p or k so if ya get 1 ec of Cali magic probably around 300ppm cal 100 mg an 75 n so you need around and about 75 ppm of p and 50 of k...and micros.. up to you how you get it in there... and the n still high for me against ca an mg...

Up to you how you get the nutrients ... all the same shit... canna Zyme got a good 2:1 p:k... just shoot for 50+ ca 15+mg 8-10 n p s and 4-5 k if ya break it down into parts...

Probably not written the clearest but it's like finding an average add up all the numbers on the jugs, then divide by parts/amounts of jugs.

Or use you meter and do the math by ppm of res...

Sm90 is good for the sulfer.. protek is good for silica,help move the ca and buffer ph.. but K is probably already high so I'd be going pretty light with that unless you can find another way to balance the p:k balance... k is toxic if top nugs are smaller than those below them..

If run out is staying fairly consistent with feed ph wise I would bump up into the 6-6.2 bracket, 62*f... more available imo a bit higher 6.4 at the roots is ideal imo...ph up and down is not as nice for roots as food so I try to use silica as ph up and nitrogen or phosphorus as ph down....
Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I'm using Canna's two-part coco-specific base nutrients, A and B. They're supposed to be complete on their own, but I've had nothing but trouble with them since the start, and I'm even using their brand coco too.

maimunji said:
Looks like classic k def.
Click to expand...

It does, but I don't see how that's possible. Is it because I'm not using Cannazym? Pfft, that'd be ridiculous.. essentially a 3-part lineup at that point.
 
#1cheesebuds

#1cheesebuds

Well-known member
Veteran
10 or so years ago I use to do small grows in coco 1 gallon pots. like 3 or so plants with great results with just hand water/feeding with no salt build up. Then I quite coco and got into hydroponics for some years. that went ok.

At moment I grow in FF soil with great results but its expensive to buy. Around a year ago I tried again with coco and had terrible results.

I have this huge brick of coco and would love to use it but I don't want to spend time and effort only to have my plants grow like crap.

So I was wondering can I use those water crystals mixed in with the coco to help keep it moist?
Also can I feed with liquid humus?
 
Lyfespan

Lyfespan

Active member
Student Of Life said:
Gnarly, thick, and white. They've really exploded this round after I decided to experiment with VAM.



Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I'm using Canna's two-part coco-specific base nutrients, A and B. They're supposed to be complete on their own, but I've had nothing but trouble with them since the start, and I'm even using their brand coco too.



It does, but I don't see how that's possible. Is it because I'm not using Cannazym? Pfft, that'd be ridiculous.. essentially a 3-part lineup at that point.
Click to expand...

are you using PH down? in your nute mixes?
 
Lyfespan

Lyfespan

Active member
epicseeds

epicseeds

Member
Looks like most people have gave you good info on why you may be seeing salt buildup and how to avoid it:
1) never let the coco dry out - try to always keep it moist once roots are established
2) use smaller pots - which will require you to feed multiple times per day - the more the better - which will require a drip system
3) if you are feeding multiple times a day, feed at a low EC/PPM (1.1-1.3 EC) - even when I was hand watering 1x a day I never went above 1.6 EC


But 1 major component not yet brought up is knowing exactly what you are actually feeding your coco with.

I'd highly suggest you to get a water analysis if you are not using RO, or in the very least google your towns water website and they should give you a general idea of what is in your tap water.

Then use cannastats excel spreadsheet and input your tap water and nutrients you are using.

I did this 3 runs ago and things have improved greatly.

You really need to know exactly what you are putting in and not just total EC/PPM

See below for download link, If you don't have Excel you can download LibreOffice for free - there is also a full blown software called HydroBuddy you can use.

I was running Canna Coco A/B and PK 13/14 and epsom salts a few runs ago so I attached my old cannastats excel spreadsheet that you can use - I removed my personal tap water numbers so you will want to add those back yourself. The recipe in the file is what I ran from established vegetative roots all the way to end of stretch - then I added the PK 13/14 for 1 week. Yield was above average with this mix.

If you have any questions on how to use the doc shoot me a PM.

You can find guaranteed analysis from these sources - this website is a massive database where you can find almost every comercial nutrients makeup since Washington is one of the few states that require this by law:
- Canna Coco A
- Canna Coco B

Notice for some reason they don't have to release any micro nutrient amounts, they are definitely in there though we just don't know exactly how much or if enough etc. You can check this thread to shine some light on what the makeup might be. To be safe I ran Botanicare's Liquid Karma and old PBP Tea additive at low dosages when I last ran Canna.

If you do some searches on a user here on by name of YosemiteSam and Spurr I learned a lot from them on proper ratios for coco. Biggest take away from him I learned is the best ratio for coco is Ca:Mg of 3:1 - in other words

Calcium: 150 ppm
Magnesium: 50 ppm

Canna Coco A and B with RO @ the standard 10ml/gal would give you

Calcium: 119 ppm
Magnesium: 29 ppm

Magnesium is too low - so throw some epsom salts in there. But you are shooting in the dark if you dont know what your tap water is at.

I can tell you right now if you are only using Canna A and B you are going to run in to Mag deficiencies, and maybe slight Calcium deficiencies - I saw this first hand a few runs ago with multiple strains - especially haze genetics. Canna's standard recipe with only A/B and PK 13/14 makes some fire bud with great yield - but again.. it definitely could be tweaked a bit for optimal results.

My only gripe was N and P seemed a bit too high and the K was too low without the constant use of PK 13/14 - I do not like their K:Ca:Mg ratio for coco.

You really need to get a water analysis or at least a general understanding of what is in your tap water.

What PPM/EC is your tap?


DOWNLOAD LINK: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-277u2T6_H3a3o0YnlRRlFDY3M/view?usp=sharing

Instructions
xxYsUUp.png
 
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Old Toker

Old Toker

Well-known member
Hey Epicseeds....Thanks very much for the info! How about a link to the actual Cannastats excel spreadsheet that we can use to input our tap water and nutrients that we are using? Maybe it's somewhere on their site but I can't seem to find it. Appreciate the help.:tiphat:
 
epicseeds

epicseeds

Member
Old Toker said:
Hey Epicseeds....Thanks very much for the info! How about a link to the actual Cannastats excel spreadsheet that we can use to input our tap water and nutrients that we are using? Maybe it's somewhere on their site but I can't seem to find it. Appreciate the help.:tiphat:
Click to expand...

That google docs page is the file, just hit the download arror at top right and delete out the canna stuff - the site is old as hell and hard to find took me a while to find it months ago. But I promise you the file I added is legit and what was on the website. Ill try and find the original link though

edit: here is the original download link http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/premixppm3b.zip

but in all honesty, if you are starting from scratch it would probably be best to use HydroBuddy -
it has a lot more features and probably a bigger learning curve but I plan on switching over to it right now actually http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2016/03/the-first-free-hydroponic-nutrient-calculator-program-o.html

The CannaStats still does the job and just as accurate though.
 
epicseeds

epicseeds

Member
Old Toker said:
Thank you sir! I think I'll go with the HydroBuddy. Appreciate the help!:tiphat:
Click to expand...

After finally messing around with HydroBuddy - I would only recommend it if you are wanting to do fully customized nutrient mixes from pure salts and no premades. Way too much work just for me to get it to mix up my Jacks Hydro + Cacinit + Epsom salts and PK 13/14

I'd stick with the CannaStats one unless you are wanting to go on the full blown salts way - which I hope to do once I run out of my Jacks
 
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