Top Drip DTW with Minimal Runoff

tiffa said:

You could take an unknown users advice from a forum or you could take cannas advice and feed once a day

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If i took Cannas advise and fed once a day my plantsvwould shrivel up and die From the coco completely drying out. Which is also something Canna advises; to not let your coco dry out...

Just wanted to throw an update out here as I am nearing harvest.

As mentioned in the thread starting post - this is my first time using drippers and attempting at minimal runoff. However - as harvest is 2 weeks out things are looking greatly improved over last runs daily hand watering to runoff. Same cut, same environment etc.... only difference is watering method.

ITEMS USED
- 0.5 GPH Button Dripper (Model # W2205B)
- EcoPlus Eco 633 Fixed Flow Submersible/Inline Pump (594 GPH)
- 1.68L pots in 100% coco

Instead of making a manifold I wanted to try something easier and I think greatly helps in even watering. I attached about 1.5 feet of 1/2in tubing directly to the pump. I punched holes zigzagged on the left and right side of the tubing and barbed 1/4in spaghetti tubing directly in to it. Most importantly, each spaghetti line is the exact same length (for me 7ft). Then just attached the drippers to the end of the spaghetti lines and stake to pots.

If anyone would like to see a picture of it let me know and I can snap a quick one. This is so much easier than building a PVC manifold and has been working flawlessly.

I am using Jacks Hydro/Calnit/Epsom as the base - added PK 13/14 at appropriate weeks.

EC at constant 1.1-1.2 (tap water is 0.05)

The hardest part was figuring out the correct timings for minimal runoff. This took a few days testing but once you nail it down it's smooth sailing from there.

I opted to divide a full flower day in to 7 separate feedings, 2 hours apart.

Just to be safe, first feeding of the day right after lights turn on I allow to feed just until I got about a 2 shot glasses worth of runoff. For me this took 15 minutes of feed time.

The next 6 feedings I feed for 5 minutes. A full flower days worth of feeding totals to 45 minutes. That may sound like a lot but realize these drippers are literally small single drops - probably close to 60 drops per minute.

I tested a few nights by placing a saucer under a pot and I end up with ~ 4 fluid ounces of runoff.

I am very pleased with the results - there does not appear to be any salt buildup on top of the coco - EC coming out of the pots is very close to EC going in. There is no burning and plants look healthier than previous runs of hand watering. Coco never dries out and is moist the entire time.

SUMMARY FULL FLOWER DAY SCHEDULE

FEED 1: 06:00-06:15PM |15 minutes
FEED 2: 08:00-08:05PM |5 minutes
FEED 3: 10:00-10:05PM |5 minutes
FEED 4: 12:00-12:05AM |5 minutes
FEED 5: 02:00-02:05AM |5 minutes
FEED 6: 04:00-04:05AM |5 minutes
FEED 7: 06:00-06:05AM |5 minutes
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TOTAL: 45 minutes

Next run I will be running a side by side, one with the same settings above, another with double the amount of feedings (14 feeds) but with same total feed time, and a third comparing standard ebb and flow. Maybe another one with top feed DTW but with the usual ~15% runoff. Very excited to see the differences.

I am surprised I have had no clogging whatsoever with these cheap Home Depot drippers - a 25 pack was like $7.

All I can say is, once you dial down the timings with your environment and pot sizes - minimal runoff with low EC is an absolutely viable method and I should be able to confirm here soon noticeably improved yields.

epicseeds said:

Instead of making a manifold I wanted to try something easier and I think greatly helps in even watering. I attached about 1.5 feet of 2in tubing directly to the pump. I punched holes zigzagged on the left and right side of the tubing and barbed 1/4in spaghetti tubing directly in to it. Most importantly, each spaghetti line is the exact same length (for me 7ft). Then just attached the drippers to the end of the spaghetti lines and stake to pots.

If anyone would like to see a picture of it let me know and I can snap a quick one. This is so much easier than building a PVC manifold and has been working flawlessly.
.

Click to expand...

Yes, please do show how you've set things up. Watering systems are confusing to me because I have no experience. Pictures go a long way, from the reservoir and pump set up down to the end point at the plants.

You said you ran 1/4" off of 2" tubing from the pump. That sounds really big. Was it 1/2"?

Thanks for sharing your experience. It makes it easier for the growers who follow you.

Ona

2inch is a typo, pretty sure it is 1/2 inch

I'll be sure to snap a pic next time im in the room tomorrow. Untill then here is a crappy MSPaint sketch



I have all the spaghetti lines moderately tidy by use of zip ties coming out of the rez

Here is a pic of the "lazy mans manifold" - super important to remember - you want all spaghetti lines to be exact same length.

No messin' about with PVC or anything and I have had very even dripping at all spots. We'll see how a bigger version goes next time

Hey Epic....neat system. Looks like a couple of plants in the background. Do you have your reservoir in the same space as your plants?

Yeah that's what I'm wondering too...

I went with the Pico style PVC manifolds because of 2 reasons. Reservoir location (adjacent room is much cooler and no co2 into res) and not having any low lying spots in the feed lines where fluid gets trapped. Its about least amount of restriction, and having lines completely drain once pump kicks out.

Do you have your feed lines somewhat tight to each plant like the picture shows? or do your 1/4 lines lay on the floor/table and run out to each plan? Like to see more of exactly what you have going on there before I start assuming shit

I would also plumb a T on your 1/2" (?) discharge line off the pump, install a few ball valves below the 1/4" lines, and then 90 the line down so that it points back into the res. Whammo you have a means of isolating your discharge pressure to feed lines, and circulating your res for mixing.

Old Toker said:

Hey Epic....neat system. Looks like a couple of plants in the background. Do you have your reservoir in the same space as your plants?

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Same space but I built a decently tight seal with the lid goes on. Next run will be done outside the room. I too have had concerns with C02 in Rez - but then again I have a lid and I am not bubbling the rez. The rez gets mixed for 10 mins, 10 mins before each feed from a second smaller submersible pump. So no air should really be going in to the rez

ganjalfthegreen said:

Do you have your feed lines somewhat tight to each plant like the picture shows? or do your 1/4 lines lay on the floor/table and run out to each plan? Like to see more of exactly what you have going on there before I start assuming shit

I would also plumb a T on your 1/2" (?) discharge line off the pump, install a few ball valves below the 1/4" lines, and then 90 the line down so that it points back into the res. Whammo you have a means of isolating your discharge pressure to feed lines, and circulating your res for mixing.

Click to expand...

Each line goes directly to each pot and is attached to a stake with a dripper at the end... all lines at a some-what even level. I have a few lines that go way higher and way lower than the stake/dripper level and have noticed no difference in performance. The key is a strong pump and to get those pressure sensitive(GPH)/non adjustable drippers.


Yes, I do need to come up with a way to keep discharge from happening. The current setup allows infrequent dripping for ~15 mins after shutoff. This is not optimal but I have found coco to be resilient to over watering.

Are you able to link me to a more detailed way to accomplish this with my setup? I'll have to research use of ball valves. Would it require me to manually open and close it?

Hey epic, i went back and looked at your photo of your lines coming out of the rez. I don't see that you have a siphon connection that drains into the rez. If you hook up an additional line to that main feed line coming up out of the pump, it will depressurize the line once the pump goes off and prevent the flow in the lines from siphoning off so much after the pumps are off. I'll try to throw together a pick of what I have. The 3/8" lines that go into the pots pretty much stop flowing as soon as the pump stops.

Edit: here's the pic. you could just connect a single line and it would work just as fine

run-off drip line to prevent siphoning