av8or's PPK - First Grow

av8or · Nov 8, 2014

Sounds good, MM. I think I'm gun shy on watering too much now so I'm over correcting in the opposite direction causing a nute deficiency. I set the watering schedule for the ppk sites at three hours and I'm going to leave it there and see what happens. The PWT should be recessed enough at this point. I am thinking about getting a few more healthy clones and trying to bring them up proper so they transition into the ppk sites easily. I am trying to run a perpetual all on the same res, so having the smallest and largest plant on the same feed schedule is the goal. Right now, I'm way off. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Miraculous Meds · Nov 8, 2014

Feed schedule isn't really a problem. Feed interval might be. So id think starting them in solo cups and then a veg with its own pump and timing to dial the interval per the plants root development.

I do something like this but I do 4 plants at a time, so having a veg system running 4 plants till they are ready for flower.

If ur talking about 1 veg plant into flower at a time and having several different ages of veg in the same system with different root development, then that would be tricky. Only way I can think of is have a separate feed pump and timer for each veg plant. Everything could still be run off of the same reservoir but u would need to time the waterings out or have a bigger res. Id just do one res for veg and one res for flower.

This is how id do it for different stages of veg plants. But I swear I read d9 would just clone right in the turface. Maybe because the roots started that way u can get away with watering on the short internals so early before the roots are fully established? that's a question for d9 cause I haven't rooted them in rocks or a ppk. I do solo cups like u.

av8or · Nov 8, 2014

D9 did say yesterday that he has rooted cuttings getting fed every 90 minutes, which tells me that it shouldn't be an issue to use one pump for the entire perpetual system. It seems to me that I need to put plants in the ppk sites that are rooted in a certain way that allows them to take to the 90 minute flood with immediate effect. Granted, I have no idea how to get the roots prepared properly, but I'm hoping some of you guys have some better ideas.

Permacultuure · Nov 9, 2014

I had a similar problem recently. After changing out my bottom/top buckets I failed to change the water level. I essentially started to drown my plants. They started drooping and showing all the signs of over watering. A lil neglect later and the majority were yellowing and dropping leaves. I think what your seeing is the same issue, just different stages.

I would try backing off your watering, letting them fully dry out. This may be as much as 3-4 hr intervals between floods

Good luck brother!!

av8or · Nov 10, 2014

Perm, yeah, I think you're right. I thought I had the PWT gauged properly but I was actually 2 1/4" high still. Being new, I'm not really sure what to expect while the plants recover, but I'm feeding for 65 seconds every 3 hours and the girls are starting to look a little better. The over watered Sour Urkles aren't necessarily looking better, per se, but they're not looking worse. I have to cull a few more of these girls as they funnel into the perpetual chute, so if I have stunted a few plants as I've learned a few newb lessons, then that's ok.

What I would really like to figure out is how to clone for this system. What are you guys and gals doing to create the best rooted clones for this media/system?

Permacultuure · Nov 11, 2014

D9 just sticks em into the media. Right next to big plants and the same feed schedule and it works great. He also has built some pretty cool cloning setups for propagation in the same media/environment with minimal lighting. I've never had to many issues with transplanting into the system, even coming out of coco or soilless cups. I think if your flood intervals and levels and been more suitable you'd be seeing much more growth. Once its dialed your on cruise control

av8or · Nov 11, 2014

I think you're right, Perm. Getting that air gap set before you put plants in is paramount. I flooded them initially and now I'm paying for it with slow growth. I'm tempted to just toss these plants and get new ones. I would like to start cloning myself, so I want to figure out how best to do that for this system. If you put a cutting straight into the turface (or 8822 in my case) do you use rooting hormone or just let the jacks do its thing? It seems too easy. What about stabilizing the cutting? Even a rooted clone likes to fall right over in the 8822. What about using rockwool?

delta9nxs · Nov 12, 2014

hey, this just looks like "too wet". and since you are using a full flood it just about has to be the water level in your system. in the tuff tub/muck tub combination you should have an actual water depth of 6" to start with.

can i see the reservoir set up?

av8or · Nov 12, 2014

D9, I'm hoping you're right. I can't think of anything else it would be. The res is sitting at 5 1/2" now. The different ppk sites have different heights of boards sitting underneath them to level them with the other sites. In all of the 70 quart green muck tubs, the water level is sitting at 4 1/2", leaving me with (if I've done my measuring correctly) a 3 1/2" air gap. Does that sound about right? I noticed that my water level came up about a half inch when I set the flood to every 90 minutes two days ago. I'm wondering if my pilot hole is too big in the control bucket where the float valve is. I used a 5/32" bit. Here are the pics of the setup. If you want to see anything in further detail, let me know. Thanks D9!!

View image in gallery

av8or · Nov 12, 2014

One more thing, D9, do you think you could explain how to best clone for this system? I want to set that up, too, so I can take as many variables out of the equation as I can. Thanks!!

DabOnDabs · Nov 12, 2014

Ahh av8or, I hate to come in and smile at your troubles but you are having the EXACT same issues I was having.

In one room I was able to get my cuttings to take in the PPK, and have just started pulling down my first ppk crop.

In another room, I killed 3 full sets of clones, all looking the exact same as yours. I couldnt figure it out.

Snook · Nov 12, 2014

??? off gas from different hose manufacturers.
I remember imaginaryFriend.. having issue with some N-P-K brand tubing back at "TheBible" : Passive Plant Killer >https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=138004 and while I was getting that link I found, ImaginaryFriends parallel ppk thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=189096 without pictures its a little hard to 'get focused' but there's a lot of good information in them both. D9 did a lot of experimenting along the way. and as I remember ImaginaryFriend took the ppk to 'different' places, and came to similar conclusions. kinda, you took the high road, lemme try the low road..

av8or · Nov 13, 2014

Dabs - Yeah, man...this is kind of confusing. I am hoping that it was a PWT problem that I think I've corrected. We will see. I have a J1 that wasn't even three inches tall 20 days ago and now she's two big 13" stems. So...this works but apparently not if you drown the plants when they first get put in the system. Now I just wait and see how they respond.

Snook - I saw that NPK hose issue and checked before buying the hose. The MSDS didn't indicate anything that would upset the plants. I'm going to give this newly corrected PWT a chance and see if it takes. Next, I'll flush the system and put a new batch of Jacks in. If that doesn't work, then it's off to the store to replace all the hoses. I'm half tempted to yank them anyway, but they work so well. Not a drip of water leaking anywhere. I hope it's not the hose...it works great. But then again, if it is the hose, then it's a cheap and easy fix. We will see.

Snook · Nov 13, 2014

av8or said:
Dabs - Yeah, man...this is kind of confusing. I am hoping that it was a PWT problem that I think I've corrected. We will see. I have a J1 that wasn't even three inches tall 20 days ago and now she's two big 13" stems. So...this works but apparently not if you drown the plants when they first get put in the system. Now I just wait and see how they respond.

Snook - I saw that NPK hose issue and checked before buying the hose. The MSDS didn't indicate anything that would upset the plants. I'm going to give this newly corrected PWT a chance and see if it takes. Next, I'll flush the system and put a new batch of Jacks in. If that doesn't work, then it's off to the store to replace all the hoses. I'm half tempted to yank them anyway, but they work so well. Not a drip of water leaking anywhere. I hope it's not the hose...it works great. But then again, if it is the hose, then it's a cheap and easy fix. We will see.

GL, its a PITA figuring out some things.

delta9nxs · Nov 13, 2014

i don't think there is anything basically wrong. i think you ran them too wet and have a little root damage but they will come around if you set the system at 6" depth and go to a 2 hour interval until they look better.

the hole for the float container is 3/32" so yours is not functioning right at 5/32".

stick a stainless or nylon screw through it and drill another.

you need 50 posts so you can pm.

also, you can clone directly into these containers if you like but they take up a lot of space. i'm using the yellow lid totes for ppk cloners right now and they work fine. one on top the other with a tailpiece and turface. use 300 ppm. you are using jack's and calcinit at 600 ppm for the main system, right? mixed at 360 ppm jack's and 240 ppm calcinit?

your room temps should be 86 lights on ideally and 78-80 lights off using co2.

rh should be 55% +/- 5%.

the ppk system functions well at these parameters.

av8or · Nov 13, 2014

D9 - Thanks for the corrections! I had a sneaking suspicion the drain hole was too large. That'll fix a nagging overflow problem. I'll fix that with immediate effect. I am mixing jacks at 260 / 240 for 600 ppm input with a Ph of 5.8. My daytime temps are 84-85 and night temps 77-78. Humidity is hanging between 55-60%. I'll bring that down a few points. I think you're right...I got a little too wet initially and then I over-corrected. I'm going to keep my five healthiest plants and let them do their thing.

Snook - No joke. I'll get it, though. I've been reading along with all your guys' grows over the last year and I'm super motivated to catch up! No matter what, I'm loving the process. This is way better than working!

av8or · Nov 14, 2014

Waiting...

Waiting...

I think I've got the air gap set properly and the floods are happening every 90 minutes. No signs of over watering anymore, but in trying to correct the problem, I induced some deficiencies. Now I wait for them to correct and bounce back. I would like to flip another plant on Tuesday to keep up with the perpetual cycle schedule, but the plants just aren't big enough to justify flowering yet. I should probably have waited to flip the J1, too, but oh well. They'll get bigger eventually.

Here's where I sit right now:

From left to right: J1, Jack Herer, Bruce Banner #3, Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Jack Herer

av8or · Nov 14, 2014

Oh yeah...

Room Temp: 85 F
RH: 58%
Res Temp: 82 F
PPM: 711
Ph: 5.88

Input: 600 ppm (360 / 240), Ph 5.80

av8or · Nov 15, 2014

Time to build something to clone in! I'm going to keep it relatively simple and just top feed a few 5.5" pots and let them drain to waste. Input will be 300 ppm jacks at the usual ratio. I am not sure what kind of pulse I should do. I can't quite flood it with the pump and materials I have laying around, so I think I'm going to pulse a few ounces every half hour or so. Anyone have any advice there?

I'll put some pics up once I get it built and some cuttings planted. I get to go wash a few bags of 8822 now. (feigning excitement)

Mister_D · Nov 17, 2014

av8or said:
Time to build something to clone in! I'm going to keep it relatively simple and just top feed a few 5.5" pots and let them drain to waste. Input will be 300 ppm jacks at the usual ratio. I am not sure what kind of pulse I should do. I can't quite flood it with the pump and materials I have laying around, so I think I'm going to pulse a few ounces every half hour or so. Anyone have any advice there?

I'll put some pics up once I get it built and some cuttings planted. I get to go wash a few bags of 8822 now. (feigning excitement)

Seems you're on the right track here. Probably have to dial in the feed times a bit (aim to go as long as possible between feeds without stressing the plant), but you have a good starting point.

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