Distinguished and Nurtured Kind

Yeah, I looked through that GROM thread and it sounds like a real lip smacker ...!!!...

That would be AWSOME if u were able to get some of those to pop ..!!!...


A few months ago I tried to germinate about 8 Flo f6’s seeds... I only ended up getting one to germinate out of the group...I later found out that the seeds were about six years old... I guess I was lucky enough just getting that one to pop... plus it turned out to be a female...

dank.frank said:

Getting stuck chasing clones really takes some of the fun out of growing. At the same time, you have no idea what to really keep unless you've grown the established elites to know what the standard is. It's a conundrum for sure.



dank.Frank

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Amen.

Without elites, all you can do is keep trying to find something that tops everything you already have for keepers, but it does nothing to show you how what you have might stack up to what everyone else has deemed worthy of decades of cloning.

I'll have to try this CBD at-home test in the near future.. Scored some Piña F4, Mean Gene creation, and they're supposed to have a nice mix of CBD-rich and THC-rich plants.


Thanks for the great read, Frank, it's always a pleasure to stop in here and see what the latest of goings on, is going on.

I know I had more to say, but, well, I'm high.. so I'll have to come back when the thought does too.

@nickman - saw your Flo freak. Lot of DJ type plants will grow that way. Even in blueberry outcrosses. About 5 out of 20 in the Carolina Blue x Digi Bx1 cross would show that type of growth.

@Coughie - Agreed.

Things are filling in.





dank.Frank

The Snow Monkey in the middle of the tray is a confirmed male and will be killed. It is the more musky chem smelling plant and the one growing the fastest of the 3. Hopefully, it's the only male, because the other two smell fantastic.

The Cobalt Haze have been topped at their 5th internode.



dank.Frank

Getting stuck chasing clones really takes some of the fun out of growing. At the same time, you have no idea what to really keep unless you've grown the established elites to know what the standard is. It's a conundrum for sure.

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it all boils down to flavor imo. the elites are plants that are stupendously loud when you open the jar *AND* leave a mouth coating flavor on your tongue. ideally the smell and flavor are identical.

that’s usually my goal when hunting any seeds. which one has the smell i want, and then does it carry over to taste, and is it good down to the last puff of a joint?

heady blunts said:

it all boils down to flavor imo. the elites are plants that are stupendously loud when you open the jar *AND* leave a mouth coating flavor on your tongue. ideally the smell and flavor are identical.

that’s usually my goal when hunting any seeds. which one has the smell i want, and then does it carry over to taste, and is it good down to the last puff of a joint?

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And potency. It's gotta have power, or else it get's culled. Luckily with what we have today, potency is usually there.

Just went through the entire thread. Great info DF. Much respect for spreading your knowledge with so many and so freely.

@heady - Funny you say that. I've been reading through the old strains vs the new strains thread and pondering the back and forth in the thread. Your sentiment seems to be the focal point of the thread.

@DTOG - So goes the "argument" back and forth it seems.

When I look at it over the years, at least for me, it has always been first and foremost about potency. My core focal point as a medical user impacts my selection. I kept a Herijuana plant and only grew it for 3 years. It tasted like swamp muck and old coffee grounds, but it is still one of the strongest plants I've ever ran. As a tincture, I'd fall asleep while eating and wake up two hours later drooling on myself. I found myself in love with the plant, despite how it tasted, because it was so effective.

Chem Sis x NL - that plant smelled like blue foam carpet underlay; That gag you chemical fume odor that smacks you in the face as you unroll it. That plant is one of my all time favorites for sheer potency. She could make your knees weak, literally.

FOR THAT MATTER - The Chem D x Sour D pheno that Phillthy kept and called "ChemSour" - the plant that was used in the ChemSour x SSCDH line - by some standards could be considered a bit bland. She had flavor, but was NOT over the top super in your face loud. There were certainly much more sour or much more chem plants in the seeds. There was NOT anything remotely close to as potent. The ChemSour cut would make me white out. Straight up loose all color, go casper the ghost white, start cold sweating bullets, and have to go lay down. I consumed those flowers with respect for what it could do.

My first and foremost key criteria has always been potency, but potency for specific given effects. Potency does not just knock you out it can make your head spin or make you overly talkative or make you eat a kitchen bare. There are different elements to potency and finding something that had multiple key elements was always a goal in seed hunts. It does this AND this. How it tasted, I think has always been secondary.

To that accord, I think smelling something in combination with flower shape, tells you pretty much exactly what to expect. THC is THC is THC. It's the same chemical being delivered, just via different mediums (strains), theoretically. It's the terps and the lesser known cannabinoids that seem to be ultimately more important though in regards to producing a desired effect. But even that doesn't complete the equation because a lemon OG certainly smokes different than a Super Lemon Haze and the same THC and same limonene, etc are all present, yet the effect completely different. There still exists some unknown synergy and perhaps that doesn't even exist within the plant but within how it reacts to our own individual endocannabinoid system, assuming there is any actual variation in a physical sense from human to human.

Only way to know for sure, is to smoke it ALL.

@Rainman - Always glad to have you in for the show, old timer! I'll try and do it the right way.



dank.Frank

Damn.... haven’t had Casper weed in decades... tolerance has obviously gone up and all, but seems like even less ‘potent’ (as defined by lab ‘results’) SEEMED to get me to a place I haven’t seen in a LONG TIME

@Badfishy1 - It's still out there. It exists. The idea that "one hit weed" is dead is not correct. People need to spend more time sorting single strains. Sort 10 packs, not just 2 seeds. Buckle down and find something that is a true standout in the gene pool.

I'm guilty of sprouting a dozen different things currently because I'm trying to find something that WILL sprout. Ideally though, I like to focus. I like to sort everything I have of a line and see as much as I can of it all at once. I'm still terrified of losing stuff forever though, so I'm tiptoeing on ice through my collection.

When I really look at what has given me my most enjoyed plants:

Blueberry family lines (including Digi here)
Chem family lines (including OG and Sour here)
Bubba Kush family lines (including Sour Bubble here)

The thing I've learned though, is it is old NL and old Afghani influence that I tend to select towards when seeking potent medical plants for pain relief. When I want mental experiences, I look towards Blueberry lines. When I look for recreational plants, it tends to be hybrids of either blueberry type lines to Chem/Sour/OG or NL/Afghani based heritage to Chem/Sour/OG.

Out of all the cannabis in the world, if being fully honest with myself, my niche is quite small. But, knowing what I love to smoke, has allowed me to focus in and truly find and make some exceptional plants over the years.



dank.Frank

sup frank good to see you thumbin'

hope you have a good new year

dank.frank said:

I kept a Herijuana plant and only grew it for 3 years. It tasted like swamp muck and old coffee grounds, but it is still one of the strongest plants I've ever ran. As a tincture, I'd fall asleep while eating and wake up two hours later drooling on myself. I found myself in love with the plant, despite how it tasted, because it was so effective.

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Strongest plant Ive grown from seed was similar, a bagseed Bruce Banner #3 plant. Big fluffy nugs that smelled like stale popcorn and tasted like burnt carpet when smoked. One good bong hit would make me nod off after exhale and wake up later drooling with my bong spilled on the floor in front of me, I miss that plant lol.

Breeding is the same as anything else, everyone has a personal preference or ideology that they strive towards.

@Cannavore - Hopefully 2019 brings us all some new dank! I know I'm certainly looking forward to the change of pace.

@Ibechillin - I guess "to make as much money as possible" counts as a valid breeding goal in 2019? I think we all have those one certain strains we miss that fall into the "had we known better" category.



dank.Frank

DF some upsetting news on the ogx snoman an the digi x swt4.

the digi x swt4 shells where cracked open then sterilized with a light hydrogen peroxide, then soaked for 24 hrs with a drop of chlorine an a drop of hormex , then placed in the antibacterial sponges with watered down version of the soak. sealed in bags.

in 2 or 3 days they popped small tails an seemed to be on their way. the shells opened nice. the seed tissue & tail seemed clean an crisp. they then stalled. 2 weeks went by with no growth. they turned to mush but no fungi growth.....


the ogxsnoman got all the way to the rockwool cubes an popped their first leafs. they sat for 15 days then fell over. man i was super clean with them.

new bags to create an house them in their own sterile humidity dome. gloves an tools always sterilized with rubbing alcohol. light light nutrient solution sterilized with low amounts paa acid. florescent lighting & 75-80 degrees.... damnnn these are tough ones. i kept them clean like lab settings minus a flow hood.


so that got me thinking .... might be time to learn how to start seeds invitro . started assembling the materials. this might be the only way....


short version
https://www.santyerbasi.com/en/blog/in-vitro-cannabis/

in depth version
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...in-Cannabis-sativa-L-An-in-vitro-approach.pdf

Gman - Thank you for trying! I've had the same thing happen. Full sprout that just fades and never really kick into full gear. I've also had the great tap roots just stall out on fully split seed shells. I've been leaning towards a more tissue culture type setup as well. It's what I've been studying. Read about Redwoods that were cloned from old stumps - it took 3 YEARS - for them to grow. I'm not sure I have that level of dedication to keep an aspetic environment that long, if that is what it takes.

I was wondering how your experiment was going. Thanks for sharing your results.

I sent several packs of seeds to Nickman, to save him from spending more money. Most of what was shared was things collected for the Phillthy fundraiser that never happened because of issues with customs. We'll see what kind of results he's able to get.



dank.Frank

dank.frank said:

Gman - Thank you for trying! I've had the same thing happen. Full sprout that just fades and never really kick into full gear. I've also had the great tap roots just stall out on fully split seed shells. I've been leaning towards a more tissue culture type setup as well. It's what I've been studying. Read about Redwoods that were cloned from old stumps - it took 3 YEARS - for them to grow. I'm not sure I have that level of dedication to keep an aspetic environment that long, if that is what it takes.

I was wondering how your experiment was going. Thanks for sharing your results.

I sent several packs of seeds to Nickman, to save him from spending more money. Most of what was shared was things collected for the Phillthy fundraiser that never happened because of issues with customs. We'll see what kind of results he's able to get.



dank.Frank

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i will dedicate the time and space. it is a very interesting subject an process. i am excited about growing again.

then i think back of all the genetics i have lost. the seeds that stalled and mould had taken over. the mothers that became to shitty to clone off. or those clones that failed and the whole line lost.

but the seeds thou, the what could have been??? that right there is enough fuel for my fire.... but then to

keep a low maintenance catalog of genetics in stasis.
clean up any pathogens, or insecticides
to have clean an uniform cuttings to fill a room


always wanted to grow mushrooms too. so that whole process is not to far off the tissue culture. i already own more then a few autoclaves. already started sourcing a flow hood.

there are more then enough entry level tissue culture or micro propagation kits out there for $225 & under.

anyways.. i'll report back in a few weeks. there are other packs that were sent i will hold off, till i understand more..

bwell

i really wish i had decided this before i tried to start the digi x swt tooths...

@gman - That's the same sort of path I'm thinking in general. I have more Carolina Blue x Digi Bx1. More FBPK. More BKGK Bx1. More Digi Bx1 and Bx2. LOTS of x Digi Bx1 outcrosses such as to Daywrecker, Chem Sis, C99 F1, GDP, ECSD, Abusive OG, The White, etc. Lot of these were made by Chili_B back in 2013 or MeltingPot. Lot of stuff just sitting. I95 seeds from $mike. Legend Bx1 from Melty. GROM x C99 and Sis x NL from Zoo. Hell, I still have Big Pink Pole seeds from Cocktail Frank.

So, I understand completely what you mean about lost potential. Where there is a will, there is a way.

From the internet:

- 10% Calcium hypochloride or 5% Sodium hypochloride for 30 minutes
- add 2% Tween 20 as detergent, a small drop for 1mL bleach in an Eppendorf tube with seeds.

This helps the bleach to penetrate all the crevices and air-pockets. We always add Tween 20 to sterilize tobacco seeds. (30 minutes on a rocking platform, then plenty of washes in sterile water, before planting on mineral medium with sugars in vitro)

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Something worth looking into. Out of curiosity, has anyone tried soaking in sugar water to see if that helps germination?




dank.Frank

Damn sad news Gman. I was losing seedlings as well, I changed over to rapid rooters soaked in H2O2 water. At 1st I hated the rooters but then I started punching a hole all the way through them for root to grow and they started kicking ass.
Nothing more then a cheap dome and heat mat, the biggest difference is I only bottom feed now and that has stopped any damping off or algae on top.

https://file.scirp.org/Html/3-3002197_88020.htm said:

Historically, industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) has been a valuable source of metabolites and compounds, such as cannabidiols. There is a need for large amounts of plant tissue to be grown under controlled environments, and plant tissue culture is one unique way to yield this tissue. The purposes of this study were to determine:

1) the optimal concentrations (µM)/ratios of auxin:cytokinin in media and;
2) the optimal mineral salts formulation for callus induction and callus growth in select hemp cultivars.

To find the optimal concentration/ratios, 16 different combinations of auxin:cytokinin and three different mineral salts formulations were evaluated. The three mineral salts formulations tested were MS salts, MB5D1K and an MTSU formulation. The top performing hormone formulations were determined to be equal concentrations (1:1, 2:2, 3:3 µM) of auxin and cytokinin. The top performing media hormone formulations for callus induction were determined to be 2:1, 2:2, 2:3, and 3:2 µM (auxin:cytokinin). The optimal mineral salts formulation was determined to be MD5D1K. Therefore, the overall optimal media formulation for hemp callus production would be MB5D1K salts with the concentration/ratio of 2:2 µM (auxin:cytokinin).

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The link in bold is for an open source article. Read the full thing. Jackpot!

The three different nutrient salts media were Murashige-Skoog (MS) salts media [4] that contained MS salts with 0.9% agar along with 5 µM 2,4-Dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 1 µM Kinetin, MB5D1K media consisting of MS salts, 0.8% agar, 3% sucrose, 0.05 g/mL solution of myo-Inositol, and 500 μL solution of Gamborgs vitamins, 5 µM 2,4-D and 1 µM Kinetin and an experimentally-determined medium called the MTSU medium, which contains MS salts, 0.8% agar, 3% sucrose, 1 mg/100mL of Thiamine, 10 mg/100mL of casein, and 0.4 mg/100mL of nicotinic acid.
To assess the hormone concentrations/ratios, 16 different concentrations/ratios were tested using the MS salts medium. Auxin (2,4-D) and cytokinin (kinetin) were the hormones that were varied in the media, while the concentrations of everything else were held constant (i.e., deionized water, sucrose, salts). Table 1 shows the hormone array and the variation among media hormone concentrations.
All media supplies were obtained through PhytoTechnology Laboratories (Lenexa, KS). Media were prepared following the procedures outlined by Murashige and Skoog [5] , along with the adjustments noted above. All media were set to a pH of 5.6 - 5.8, by adding either sodium hydroxide or hydrochloric acid. The media were then autoclaved at 121˚C for 20 minutes at slow exhaust, cooled to 60˚C and poured into 100 mm × 15 mm Petri plates. The petri plates were then sealed with parafilm and stored in a refrigerator until needed.
2.2. Collection of Plant Tissue
The cultivars used in these experiments were Landrace, Futura, Canda, Joey, CFX-2 and Cherry × Workhorse. All plants were grown in a greenhouse located in Middle Tennessee, USA. The greenhouse was maintained at 22˚C, 70% relative humidity and natural sunlight. The plant tissues used in this project were leaf tissue. In order to collect the tissue, stem cuttings (10 - 15 cm) were made and brought to the lab to undergo sterilization processes.
2.3. Plant Tissue Sterilization
In a sterilized biological safety hood, the plant tissue was sterilized using techniques developed by Leguillon et al. [6] and Odnevall et al. [7] . These techniques ensure (to the best ability) that the tissues are clean, and free of any fungus, bacteria, or mold spores. Leaf tissues were exposed to a 30 second bath in 70% ethanol, followed by a 20 minute soak in 2.5% bleach mixed with 1% surfactant (Dawn Ultra antibacterial hand soap) on a rotary shaker at 100 RPM, then rinsed three times with sterile deionized water.

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dank.Frank