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Free Tommy Robinson

M

moose eater

And yet racism -does- still exist; systemically and individually. And it always has a price to be paid by someone.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

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I'm not denying that racism exists , and it will continue to exist since the majority of the human race is tribal of nature, and everyone wants to root for their own family/religion/tribe/team/nation/gang/corporation/military/colour, and many build themselves up by putting others down.

But when you are accused of being a racist for telling the truth about a certain totalitarian ideology that people of all colours might believe in, and it has infiltrated your town en-masse and the results are far from good, then all it is about is some local UK fella finding a way to protest against what he see's as a cultural/religious invasion by making others aware of it.....there is no racial issue here.

Robinson is protesting against the Islamification of Britain, and all the bad things that come with it, not the colour or race of those that might be islamic, since people of many different ethnic persuasions are muslims/islamic.




And yet racism -does- still exist; systemically and individually. And it always has a price to be paid by someone.
 

packerfan79

Active member
Veteran
I'm not denying that racism exists , and it will continue to exist since the majority of the human race is tribal of nature, and everyone wants to root for their own family/religion/tribe/team/nation/gang/corporation/military/colour, and many build themselves up by putting others down.

But when you are accused of being a racist for telling the truth about a certain totalitarian ideology that people of all colours might believe in, and it has infiltrated your town en-masse and the results are far from good, then all it is about is some local UK fella finding a way to protest against what he see's as a cultural/religious invasion by making others aware of it.....there is no racial issue here.

Robinson is protesting against the Islamification of Britain, and all the bad things that come with it, not the colour or race of those that might be islamic, since people of many different ethnic persuasions are muslims/islamic.

So being that you are in the UK, i have to ask. Is their really a serious problem with grooming, and rape? In the U.S. we never hear about it. When you do they claim it's NAZI'S going after poor defenseless Muslims. I have never seen it on my local news. I have pretty much given up on any cable news.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

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Apparently it is a huge problem that has been covered up in the past, and may well be covered up today by the relevant authorities because they are scared of being called 'racist, bigots' etc if they bring attention to the fact that there are many gangs of mainly muslim/islamic men (and one or two women) that are not just praying down the mosque, they are preying on young women and children sexually....all over the UK, it seems to be a very unsavoury part of their 'Culture or Religion' that we were not told about.

*Here is a link about it from just one English town (there are many more) called Rotherham :
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...use-victims-rises-to-1510-operation-stovewood

Here's another about Telford : https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...-prostitution-UK-police-authorities-Rotherham

So being that you are in the UK, i have to ask. Is their really a serious problem with grooming, and rape? In the U.S. we never hear about it. When you do they claim it's NAZI'S going after poor defenseless Muslims. I have never seen it on my local news. I have pretty much given up on any cable news.

*Big demonstration in London yesterday about the jailing of Tommy Robinson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecfz3I41syU

Some quotes I saw in the media:

levi6104 for the best view of Tommy Robinson watch firstly his speech at Oxford university to find out why he does what he does.....then watch his speech from York to find out about the mass intimidation and harassment from the British Police and Government he's had for daring to expose the rape , abuse and murder of hundreds of thousands of British and Sikh children which has been covered up by the British Police and Government

mikegan73
12 hours ago
He speak outs and reports on islam, islamic rape gangs and the effects of mass immigration. He is persecuted by the liberal MSM , politicians and the authorities who falsely label him a bigot racist xenophobe and trouble maker. He was arrested and put in prison without trial and has to serve 13 months imprisonment, all for reporting outside a courthouse of an islam rape gang case.

xo_silentrealm_xo
11 hours ago
He was arrested for 'breach of peace' for filming on the street outside of the court on the sentencing day of pedo rapists, reading out information already published by BBC. The police lied to his lawyer and said he had been released but stealthily added him to the court list instead. He was sentenced without adequate representation for 'contempt of court' (before he was in trouble for filming inside the court which he did not do this time) which is different to what he was arrested for. The judge who sentenced him was photographed smirking down at him from the window before his arrest which makes it illegal for that judge to sentence him because he is a conflict of interest. That judge also said in court he didn't even bother looking at the video which was used as evidence to sentence him. This is why people are upset
 
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gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
i get why Tommy does what he does, but i think he is missing quite a bit. in the end you have criminals in every group of people, sadly that includes pedophiles and rapists. that doesn't exactly equate to that whole group being all about doing those crimes.

put it like this, in Yemen for example they have taken child rapists back to the scene of the crime and executed them on the spot with the whole crowd cheering. so trying to say that child rape is a muslim problem is where i disagree with Tommy. it's a human problem and all evidence points to many rich elite fucks doing the same thing with kids. in fact statistic show that it's a huge problem all over the world. look at Thailand for example, they have a huge issue with under age prostitution, or go to Africa, same thing. in India you have the same thing going on, even gang rapes of kids. whether it's Catholic, Budhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims or Christians, they all have adults who want to abuse kids sexually.
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
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You're thinking too much, gauis. When trying to vilify an entire people you need to keep things simple.

This supposed invasion of the UK (and elsewhere across Europe and the world) is a movement of people from economically distressed areas to economically strong areas, where conflict and war push them faster. It is not only people from the Middle East and Africa but Eastern Europe as well. How many Poles are in the UK?

If you want to address the issue you need to look at why they are moving, a problem that originates at the destination.

It will only get worse as climate change and agricultural production issues increase.

Look at Italy. A new populist government to lead the people out of the dark, yes?

But the root cause? Half of Italy is an economic deadzone. Not something you see on the polarized posts of social media.
 
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Gypsy Nirvana

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i get why Tommy does what he does, but i think he is missing quite a bit. in the end you have criminals in every group of people, sadly that includes pedophiles and rapists. that doesn't exactly equate to that whole group being all about doing those crimes.

put it like this, in Yemen for example they have taken child rapists back to the scene of the crime and executed them on the spot with the whole crowd cheering. so trying to say that child rape is a muslim problem is where i disagree with Tommy. it's a human problem and all evidence points to many rich elite fucks doing the same thing with kids. in fact statistic show that it's a huge problem all over the world. look at Thailand for example, they have a huge issue with under age prostitution, or go to Africa, same thing. in India you have the same thing going on, even gang rapes of kids. whether it's Catholic, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims or Christians, they all have adults who want to abuse kids sexually.

Yeah, so these atrocious sort of crimes happen in most all societies and much of it seems to be linked to religions of one sort or another, maybe because some of the 'Prophet's' they look up to who they try to emulate get married to 6 year olds and start sexual relations with them then, so all the 'faithfull' who are trying to follow in the steps of the prophet think its OK to be a pedo? Is this the cost of allowing people to practice their religion - the end result being the sexual use and abuse of our loved ones? So many reports of inappropriate behavior in the Catholic church too, which slowly seep out of the news.
Are we wise to be importing it, when it looks like we have plenty to deal with already?

You're thinking too much, gauis. When trying to vilify an entire people you need to keep things simple.

This supposed invasion of the UK (and elsewhere across Europe and the world) is a movement of people from economically distressed areas to economically strong areas, where conflict and war push them faster. It is not only people from the Middle East and Africa but Eastern Europe as well. How many Poles are in the UK?

If you want to address the issue you need to look at why they are moving, a problem that originates at the destination.

It will only get worse as climate change and agricultural production issues increase.

Look at Italy. A new populist government to lead the people out of the dark, yes?

But the root cause? Half of Italy is an economic deadzone. Not something you see on the polarized posts of social media.

You can't blame people for trying to get to where the grass is greener, especially when they are uprooted by proxy-wars to help clear them from their land and herded into what they think is the promised land because some nation has expansionist ideas with their land, and wants them gone, .....the burden for all this is paid by the resident population of the receiving modern nation who have to try and assimilate these millions of people from countries sometimes with very alien cultures that are not able to integrate....that don't fit in with the ideas/ideals of liberty and freedom and law that the people of the host nation think they have and live by, crime shoots up, public services get restricted due to burst budgets, schools, hospitals are overflowing.....all the basic services of a modern civilized country are tested till they break and are broken.....even the police, then you have mayhem in the streets.

So I do see it from both sides, and understand why they are demonstrating and complaining about it.
 
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DARKSIDER

Official Seed Tester
Moderator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
"Grooming gangs abused more than 700 women and girls around Newcastle with “arrogant persistence” after police appeared to punish victims while letting the perpetrators walk free, a case review has found."

The police and govt. officials allowed this to happen. The British govt. created the situation. And then when the truth comes out they make it a crime to talk about it. That is by definition a totalitarian govt.

This is so true.:tiphat:
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
Yeah, so these atrocious sort of crimes happen in most all societies and much of it seems to be linked to religions of one sort or another, maybe because some of the 'Prophet's' they look up to who they try to emulate get married to 6 year olds and start sexual relations with them then, so all the 'faithfull' who are trying to follow in the steps of the prophet think its OK to be a pedo? Is this the cost of allowing people to practice their religion - the end result being the sexual use and abuse of our loved ones? So many reports of inappropriate behavior in the Catholic church too, which slowly seep out of the news.
Are we wise to be importing it, when it looks like we have plenty to deal with already?.....




no muslim anywhere believes in sexual relations with a 6 year old, thats a total slander and doesn't hold up to the situation as it is in reality.

some muslim cultures arrange marriages and sometimes they will engage kids to be married, but they don't actually marry till they at least have reached the age of puberty. the legal age is different in various muslim countries, but not one of them allows or advocates for marriages before puberty is reached. so yeah, not sure who told you that Muslims engage sexually with 6 year old as a way to emulate the prophet, as he only got engaged to Aisha when she was 6, no one in the Islamic world believes they had a sexual relation ship before she reached the age of puberty. it's deffinetly a misrepresentation of mainstream islam to use the relation ship between Muhammed and Aisha to justify pedophilia. i don't believe even Saudia Arabia allows such a thing and there is no one more fucked up and stone age in their extremist version of Islam then those guys.

the whole story with Aisha, who is a greatly respected person in the Islamic faith, many of the faiths traditions were narrated by her. the stories about her being married at 6 are generally looked at as a slander put out by her enemies. many that hate the religion use it as a weapon. as i said though, no muslim country allows anything of the sort, so really it's a bit of a stretch to try and make that some kind of islamic tradition or something.

in those days life was shorter and kids had to become adults faster. also Islam punishes sex outside of marriage with stoning to death traditionally, so youths were generally encouraged to get married as soon as those urges struck.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

Recalcitrant Reprobate -
Administrator
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I understand what you are saying, all religions come with their bag and baggage..

''Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236''

''Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old.
Sunan Abu Dawud 2116 (Ahmad Hasan Ref)

''Narrated `Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet (ﷺ) visited us, both in the mornings and evenings.

Thus ‘Aisha was either not very old or not born yet when her parents became Muslims. This is consistent with her being a child when her marriage with Muhammad was consummated.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_...ha#Aisha.27s_Age_at_Consummation_and_Marriage
 
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Hoypare.

Well-known member
My back was hurting,from moving furniture earlier in the week :cry:
But I made my way to London yesterday,just as I did for the Freedom of Speech meeting at speakers corner a few months ago.
picture.php

View image in gallery
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
I understand what you are saying, all religions come with their bag and baggage..

''Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236''

''Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old.
Sunan Abu Dawud 2116 (Ahmad Hasan Ref)

''Narrated `Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet (ﷺ) visited us, both in the mornings and evenings.

Thus ‘Aisha was either not very old or not born yet when her parents became Muslims. This is consistent with her being a child when her marriage with Muhammad was consummated.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_...ha#Aisha.27s_Age_at_Consummation_and_Marriage

i'm no expert on this issue, but i do know there are differing opinions on her age at marriage. this guy will explain it better then i ever could, but the historic calculations seems to indicate she was around 18.

[YOUTUBEIF]2RFZwF6Dks0[/YOUTUBEIF]
 

Gypsy Nirvana

Recalcitrant Reprobate -
Administrator
Veteran
Why then are we getting differing answers to the questions between what that guy is saying in that video and an official source on islam?

Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars: Aisha
From WikiIslam, the online resource on Islam
Quotation
Aisha was Prophet Muhammad's child bride. He married her when she was six to seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine lunar years old.

The section "Aisha's Age at Consummation and Marriage" lists the evidence for Aisha's young age.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an,_...ha#Aisha.27s_Age_at_Consummation_and_Marriage


i'm no expert on this issue, but i do know there are differing opinions on her age at marriage. this guy will explain it better then i ever could, but the historic calculations seems to indicate she was around 18.

[YOUTUBEIF]2RFZwF6Dks0[/YOUTUBEIF]
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
yeah it's really messy, those Bukhari narrations are considered reliable. on the other hand the dates don't seem to corroborate the Bukhari narrations. some think it's the shia who never much liked Aisha's Father becoming ruler before Ali, who started this story.

but because it's a bukhari narrations most muslims accept it blindly. trouble is narrations are exactly that, stories told from one person to the next. in the end it could be true, the 9 year version. those were very different times. woman had no rights what so ever, the only thing protecting them was family and or tribe, if you were a young woman who lost both parents, there was nothing to stop the nearest man to enslave you and take your inheritance. female babies were buried alive as a mans status depended on how many sons he had. Islam actually gave woman their first legal rights of any kind and outlawed the practice of killing daughter at birth. the orphan was granted protection his/her inheritance inviolate, woman had to agree to be married and divorce became a possibility even if not easy for woman in Islam. so for those times it was progress. but i think using historical known dates to make the age calculation is more scientific then trusting some ones verbally transmitted narration of events.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

Recalcitrant Reprobate -
Administrator
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Hmmm...I was just trying to find a reason why these types of 'grooming gangs' that seem to zero in on young girls are predominately islamic of culture/religion, and their victims are usually white girls ...it does pose the question as to how they got that way, and is that type of behavior accepted within their own societies because I don't hear of any muslim girls getting similar treatment?

The victim is nearly always a white female....
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
i will not pretend to know what motivates these gangs, of mostly pakistani origin, as far as i understand it. who knows what they used to justify kidnaping and raping children. buti know there is not 1 muslim country in the world where they could produce Aisha as a defense, probably not even in Saudi.
 
M

moose eater

Worked with pedophiles as a professional in clinical work for a time, as well as a community liaison for paroled felon offenders of same sort.. To include contract work for Uncle Sam's Army.

Many of the clients I worked with, if not all, came from fundamentalist faiths; Christian, to include Catholic and Charismatic Catholic, Assembly of God, and more.

Not saying they're not out there, but I never had an Atheist or Agnostic client in dealing with pedophilia..

My initial assessment, off-cuff, is that much of what I encountered revolved around the 'forbidden fruit' concept, as well as factors such as not functioning well or being comfortable with same-age mates, and/or being taught shame re. the human body, hence, no Atheists or Agnostics in my experience. Again, not saying they're not out there.

Had one Southern Baptist client who was punished as a youngster by his grandmother for touching himself. In his early 30s when I worked with him, and he wouldn't even hold his wife's hand in public, let alone kiss her publicly. Inhibition, convoluted fears, and guilt didn't begin to describe it.

Rigid religions, in the hands of neurotic humans and control-freaks, often make for some fucked up outcomes and sometimes/often leave people struggling with the equation of relationship to self and the Universe for years to come.

Just sayin'...
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Hmmm...I was just trying to find a reason why these types of 'grooming gangs' that seem to zero in on young girls are predominately islamic of culture/religion, and their victims are usually white girls ...it does pose the question as to how they got that way, and is that type of behavior accepted within their own societies because I don't hear of any muslim girls getting similar treatment?

The victim is nearly always a white female....

Promotes more fear in the target audience.
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
as we started this discussion i feel it's necessary to provide more context. there might well be people that use this situation to justify their actions, but i'd argue they would find a reason either way.

anyway this is quite good and sort of fills in the gaps a bit.


The truth about Muhammad and Aisha

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth

Writing about Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, the Orientalist scholar W Montgomery Watt wrote: "Of all the world's great men, none has been so much maligned as Muhammad." His quote seems all the more poignant in light of the Islamophobic film Innocence of Muslims, which has sparked riots from Yemen to Libya and which, among other slanders, depicts Muhammad as a paedophile.

This claim is a recurring one among critics of Islam, so its foundation deserves close scrutiny.

Critics allege that Aisha was just six years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad, himself in his 50s, and only nine when the marriage was consummated. They base this on a saying attributed to Aisha herself (Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234), and the debate on this issue is further complicated by the fact that some Muslims believe this to be a historically accurate account. Although most Muslims would not consider marrying off their nine-year-old daughters, those who accept this saying argue that since the Qur'an states that marriage is void unless entered into by consenting adults, Aisha must have entered puberty early.

They point out that, in seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty. (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha's age at marriage.

According to this perspective, Aisha may have been young, but she was not younger than was the norm at the time. Other Muslims doubt the very idea that Aisha was six at the time of marriage, referring to historians who have questioned the reliability of Aisha's age as given in the saying. In a society without a birth registry and where people did not celebrate birthdays, most people estimated their own age and that of others. Aisha would have been no different. What's more, Aisha had already been engaged to someone else before she married Muhammad, suggesting she had already been mature enough by the standards of her society to consider marriage for a while. It seems difficult to reconcile this with her being six.

In addition, some modern Muslim scholars have more recently cast doubt on the veracity of the saying, or hadith, used to assert Aisha's young age. In Islam, the hadith literature (sayings of the prophet) is considered secondary to the Qur'an. While the Qur'an is considered to be the verbatim word of God, the hadiths were transmitted over time through a rigorous but not infallible methodology. Taking all known accounts and records of Aisha's age at marriage, estimates of her age range from nine to 19.

Because of this, it is impossible to know with any certainty how old Aisha was. What we do know is what the Qur'an says about marriage: that it is valid only between consenting adults, and that a woman has the right to choose her own spouse. As the living embodiment of Islam, Muhammad's actions reflect the Qur'an's teachings on marriage, even if the actions of some Muslim regimes and individuals do not.

Sadly, in many countries, the imperatives motivating the marriage of young girls are typically economic. In others, they are political. The fact that Iran and Saudi Arabia have both sought to use the saying concerning Aisha's age as a justification for lowering the legal age of marriage tells us a great deal about the patriarchal and oppressive nature of those regimes, and nothing about Muhammad, or the essential nature of Islam. The stridency of those who lend credence to these literalist interpretations by concurring with their warped view of Islam does not help those Muslims who seek to challenge these aberrations.

The Islamophobic depiction of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha as motivated by misplaced desire fits within a broader Orientalist depiction of Muhammad as a philanderer. This idea dates back to the crusades. According to the academic Kecia Ali: "Accusations of lust and sensuality were a regular feature of medieval attacks on the prophet's character and, by extension, on the authenticity of Islam."

Since the early Christians heralded Christ as a model of celibate virtue, Muhammad – who had married several times – was deemed to be driven by sinful lust. This portrayal ignored the fact that before his marriage to Aisha, Muhammad had been married to Khadija, a powerful businesswoman 15 years his senior, for 25 years. When she died, he was devastated and friends encouraged him to remarry. A female acquaintance suggested Aisha, a bright and vivacious character.

Aisha's union would also have cemented Muhammad's longstanding friendship with her father, Abu Bakr. As was the tradition in Arabia (and still is in some parts of the world today), marriage typically served a social and political function – a way of uniting tribes, resolving feuds, caring for widows and orphans, and generally strengthening bonds in a highly unstable and changing political environment. Of the women Muhammad married, the majority were widows. To consider the marriages of the prophet outside of these calculations is profoundly ahistorical.

What the records are clear on is that Muhammad and Aisha had a loving and egalitarian relationship, which set the standard for reciprocity, tenderness and respect enjoined by the Qur'an. Insights into their relationship, such as the fact they liked to drink out of the same cup or race one another, are indicative of a deep connection which belies any misrepresentation of their relationship.

To paint Aisha as a victim is completely at odds with her persona. She was certainly no wallflower. During a controversial battle in Muslim history, she emerged riding a camel to lead the troops. She was known for her assertive temperament and mischievous sense of humour – with Muhammad sometimes bearing the brunt of the jokes. During his lifetime, he established her authority by telling Muslims to consult her in his absence; after his death, she went to be become one of the most prolific and distinguished scholars of her time.

A stateswoman, scholar, mufti, and judge, Aisha combined spirituality, activism and knowledge and remains a role model for many Muslim women today. The gulf between her true legacy and her depiction in Islamophobic materials is not merely historically inaccurate, it is an insult to the memory of a pioneering woman.

Those who manipulate her story to justify the abuse of young girls, and those who manipulate it in order to depict Islam as a religion that legitimises such abuse have more in common than they think. Both demonstrate a disregard for what we know about the times in which Muhammad lived, and for the affirmation of female autonomy which her story illustrates.
 
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