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chocolate thai: lost to time? or regional 'fermenting' microbes

C

clearheaded

Active member
I was just listening to the great future cannabis project with steve and jodrey and they happen to talk about chocolate thai.

we all know fresh cocoa tastes nothing like chocolate until its fermented at hot steaming temps.. Is it possible that the depth of the chocolate thai flavor comes from tight wraping and perhaps some tropical var (similar climates as cocoa) of 'fermenting" microbes. maybe part of the reason they started wraping similar to cobs to begin with?

grown chocolate var and maybe get a tinge after several months in a jar. def found nutty tastes over the yers but not so much chocolate esp in flower.

obviously the answer is a combo of several things however something that I have never heard purposed for the chocolate thai var.


lol of course start up the podcast again and breeder steve basically says this right when i started it up. great minds
 
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C

clearheaded

Active member
so i guess what i was eluding too was that maybe one could harvest some microbes from down there and add some umph to chocolatyness. perhaps something to do more with lipid break down semi anearobicly, then "terps" persay.

Also when we look back on import, surely feilds had VAST phenos however little variety from bud to bud as far as flavors.(basing this on mexican and second hand anecdotes). So its likely that curing processing fermenting imparted alot making more of a homogenous product. not talking batch to batch but in same brick. with little selections made feilds must of had relatively large variation(assumption as never seen a columbian gold or Highland oaxacan) so perhaps locality temps humidity and local microbes played a bigger role in taste and looks and perhaps effects then we give it credit for. sun bleached etc.

also may play a roll for ammonia cat pissy varietys although yes some flowering plants can have some ammonia smells but likely crazy commercial catpiss could be from microbial activity aswell.
 
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N

Nannymouse

Well-known member
I have grown Chocolate Trip (and i liked it), it can REALLY smell like chocolate, when you open the flowering room door. Doesn't carry over as well to the taste, from the few samples that i've had.

The bubblegum that i had was like that. OMG, bubblegum smell, but not so much in taste...but was sweeeeeet like powdered sugar on lips, after tokin.
 
Mallitlahuani

Mallitlahuani

Active member
I made 2 cobs. One which was more wet when fermented got some intense chocolate/coffee/nutty flavors as well as looked quite dark.
The other, which was dryer, ended up more fruity and golden looking in the right light. Not the best pictures tbh

album.php
 
@hempy

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
The Thai cannabis you guys call chock Thai dried brown from harvest to the point it became dry say 5 to 7 days and the spicy earthy tobacco like smell it had become stronger with cure so it was genetic.

Most of the Thai lines i grew were like that and i only saw one line personally that from harvest dried a light Green and with a cure got the Dark brown color.

This is the Thai that dried green but cures brown.
picture.php


picture.php
 
C

clearheaded

Active member
yes NLD tend to be lighter green and less chlorophyl to get rid of so likely turn brown faster or if u notice leaves stay greener then bud this has alot to do with "cure" or degrading as the buds remain wet while leaves dry fast and retain the green color for longer. not the entire reason but big part of it.. think green tea or black tea..
 
therevverend

therevverend

Well-known member
Veteran
The way I've heard it the chocolate Thai wasn't actually chocolate smelling flowers, the way there's chocolate strains now. It was from the dry and cure like hempy is talking about. It was basically the same strains as the Thai sticks it replaced, only produced at a much larger commercial level so the time and care wasn't taken to create the sticks as before. It wasn't as good as the original sticks although sometimes it came close. I don't think it was actually fermented like some Columbian and African cannabis, the cob type stuff that can come out chocolate.
 
C

clearheaded

Active member
I guess i am simply suggesting cocoa get it flavor from fermenting and poorly handled cannabis in warm and wet locations can and do ferment with or without intention ;) perhaps similar bacteria grow on cocoa because of climate aswell

Thanks guys for input.

cheers!
 
G

Guava

Active member
@hempy said:
The Thai cannabis you guys call chock Thai dried brown from harvest to the point it became dry say 5 to 7 days and the spicy earthy tobacco like smell it had become stronger with cure so it was genetic.

Most of the Thai lines i grew were like that and i only saw one line personally that from harvest dried a light Green and with a cure got the Dark brown color.

This is the Thai that dried green but cures brown.
View Image

View Image
Click to expand...


One of my all time favorites. Been 35 yrs..time flys.



Yeah, I remember Tom Hill said that when he grew it out it was actually really sweet, almost sickly sweet like cough syrup, and that it required a very long cure to achieve the roasted coffee/chocolate smell taste. He did say we would never see it again. I was crestfallen.



DJ short said when he grew it the leaves were very dark already as well as very thin. I remember seeing a picture of a choc thai he was growing (on the side of his house?) that looked short, bushy and healthy. Did not see the crincle leaf he says is a mark of authenticity for the strain in that picture but it was a black and white pic so....
 
@hempy

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
Guava said:
One of my all time favorites. Been 35 yrs..time flys.

Yeah, I remember Tom Hill said that when he grew it out it was actually really sweet, almost sickly sweet like cough syrup, and that it required a very long cure to achieve the roasted coffee/chocolate smell taste. He did say we would never see it again. I was crestfallen.

DJ short said when he grew it the leaves were very dark already as well as very thin. I remember seeing a picture of a choc thai he was growing (on the side of his house?) that looked short, bushy and healthy. Did not see the crincle leaf he says is a mark of authenticity for the strain in that picture but it was a black and white pic so....
Click to expand...


All the Thai lines i grew apart from the one i posted the flower pics of went brown and had the spicy earthy smell from harvest to dry say over 5 to 7 days temp depending.

The one i posted pics of drys green cures brown and has a more electric trip type high.

Mate from School has an old Thai line that he said is around 40 year old inbreed that is been grown in the tropics i believe is what you guys call a chock Thai that he said he will pass me it.

A lot of the old lines are still around the one i lost in the early 2000 due to poor seed storage was a chock Thai called Golden Buddha collected in Thailand by a close friend mid 80s.

Once we see a legal environment a lot will re surface.
 
C

clearheaded

Active member
ya have 79 choco thai line aswell def out there ;) again just purposing the special enviro what truly made it chocolaty not normal nutty hazelnut smells from alot of var in flower esp.
 
G

Guava

Active member
Hi Hempy.



Are you the Hempy that Matt sourced for his "Conspiracy Theory" strain? If so, what kind of thai was that.
 
@hempy

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
Guava said:
Hi Hempy.



Are you the Hempy that Matt sourced for his "Conspiracy Theory" strain? If so, what kind of thai was that.
Click to expand...


Hi Guava no the only person to get it in the canna community was Nevil and he never past it on in pure or hybrid form.
 
BlackBuds

BlackBuds

Member
What Hempy shows and describes are much like the Choc Thai I would get around 83 after sticks were rarely seen. I agree the smell was from storage/fermenting as well as the golden brown color. The weed was ok but mostly put me to sleep...This was the time when all I wanted was skunk or the occasional Humboldt golf ball buds.
 
C

clearheaded

Active member
interesting about effect i guess never put that together about opium dipped may have been teh poor handeling aging creating CBN.. not to start that debate up again just would make sense.
 
@hempy

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
BlackBuds said:
What Hempy shows and describes are much like the Choc Thai I would get around 83 after sticks were rarely seen. I agree the smell was from storage/fermenting as well as the golden brown color. The weed was ok but mostly put me to sleep...This was the time when all I wanted was skunk or the occasional Humboldt golf ball buds.
Click to expand...


The Thai pictured was from 1978 imported Thai sticks it wont put you to sleep the high is like Haze can be very tripy and very unpleasant if you smoke to much.

Last good chock Thai i saw came direct from Thailand in 86 collected by a friend and was grown by me for years we lost that and many other lines due to poor seed storage that now has been corrected.

I have only ever seen one Thai line cure brown to date all the rest i saw in over 40 years dried brown from harvest the taste look n smell is genetic.
 
C

clearheaded

Active member
hempy,

did u notice those that turned brown lighter of a green while they grew? if u remember. if not then it was the type of curing(ie wet year) as chlorophyll is chlorphyll if had less chlorophyll would obv turn brown faster easier. only other reason could be lack of cuticle waxes and oils that offer protection. denser oilly WL obv not only being darker green but more protection from 'oxidation' for lack of better term.

wonder if some of the microbes stayed within the seeds/line helping it turn brown faster esp if grown first gen in new world from seed.
 
@hempy

@hempy

The Haze Whisperer
clearheaded said:
hempy,

did u notice those that turned brown lighter of a green while they grew? if u remember. if not then it was the type of curing(ie wet year) as chlorophyll is chlorphyll if had less chlorophyll would obv turn brown faster easier. only other reason could be lack of cuticle waxes and oils that offer protection. denser oilly WL obv not only being darker green but more protection from 'oxidation' for lack of better term.

wonder if some of the microbes stayed within the seeds/line helping it turn brown faster esp if grown first gen in new world from seed.
Click to expand...

Hi clearheaded no they grew and flowered Green i have grown Thai lines for many decades Thai lines was my staple smoke even when i grew other sativas and i did i always had Thai going .

Like i posted before every Thai line i grew apart from the Thai from 78 all browned from harvest to dry.That was also when the spicy earthy smells came to so its genetic.
 
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