No Till / Living Soil Bugs Needed?

greenfox · Nov 22, 2017

Hey guys,

So I've been debating whether to feed the soil vs feed the plant and have stumbled upon a concern.. BUGS.

I've read that bug population is also important to the soil (part of the ecosystem duh) but I'm not sure I want to deal with bugs indoors.
My current plan is to utilize the garage, but I might have to move it indoors for more privacy.

Sooooo.. What are your thoughts on bugs?
Are they necessary for ALL soil grows?
Are they even necessary for living soil grows?
Could I do living soil with no bugs and maybe just worms?

All feedback is appreciated!

gaiusmarius · Nov 22, 2017

hello greenfox,

welcome to icmag.

im no expert on living soil, but i think it's referring to beneficial bacteria and maybe some earthworms, for the rest you don't really want creepy crawlies inside the soil, many of them feed on the roots. but i'm sure some more expert opinions about this will show up soon. living soil is a specialized subject i do know that much, so who knows, maybe you are supposed to have certains bugs in there lol.

growing in coco the last thing you want to see is shit scurrying or hoping around in the medium....

greenfox · Nov 22, 2017

Thank you for the welcome gaiusmarius!

My concern came from a post on the BuildaSoil instagram that mentioned the grower being overrun with mites. It got me thinking and then I discovered the beneficial bugs page on the buildasoil website haha. Hmmm..

growinthehills · Nov 28, 2017

Hey greenfox if you are doing a no till living soil i would assume you will end up with bugs in your soil. Bugs as in microbes you will be adding through compost or wormcastings or tea etc.
From my experience you will end up with insects in your soil as well and I believe this is healthy. I have seen springtail, soil mites, rolly pollies (sow bugs) and others. You may also have worms.
You will also want to look out for bad bugs in the soil the worst there could be in my experience is root aphids.
Good Luck and have fun with it. Living soil was the most fun, rewarding and simple way for me to grow and it produced the best quality.

greenfox · Nov 28, 2017

growinthehills said:
Hey greenfox if you are doing a no till living soil i would assume you will end up with bugs in your soil. Bugs as in microbes you will be adding through compost or wormcastings or tea etc.
From my experience you will end up with insects in your soil as well and I believe this is healthy. I have seen springtail, soil mites, rolly pollies (sow bugs) and others. You may also have worms.
You will also want to look out for bad bugs in the soil the worst there could be in my experience is root aphids.
Good Luck and have fun with it. Living soil was the most fun, rewarding and simple way for me to grow and it produced the best quality.

This is encouraging, thank you for that.

paradoxlost · Nov 28, 2017

yea, you definitely need different organisms living in your soil the better. fill up as many different scales of life from chemical to cannabis

Limeygreen · Nov 28, 2017

I suggest hypoaspis miles (has a new name for years but I cannot remember it) hypoaspis aclulifer (I think that is the spelling) and atheta, two are mites that eat many things in the soil and atheta goes for mainly fungus gnat and shoreflies but can eat some other things in the soil as well. Expect to see earwigs, spring tails etc which are fine, I had a ton of spring tails making it look like a water leak when they were jumping when I first started my bed but then they slowly went down in numbers, simply decomposing organic materials and I believe they came in my compost or earth worm castings but still no problem from it.

P-NUT · Nov 30, 2017

Ive got roly poly, centipedes, earwigs, earthworms, soil mites, toads, green anoles, gekos, roaches of various types, once got stung by a wasp, and once found a small rat snake in my indoor room.

nameless · Nov 30, 2017

my no till living soil beds have a few creepy crawlies as well. no pill bugs for me (yet). they can mow down a stalk if you dont keep enough leaf litter or mulch for them to munch on. a strong no till bed will eventually attract all sorts of things thpugh. i have soil mites obviously, nematodes that i put there to keep away the fungus gnats, ladybugs, some centipedes, earwigs, and little spiders, worms... really you just want to pay attention to your plants. if they are happy, who cares whats creeping?

dank.frank · Nov 30, 2017

Think of it from this perspective. You need these different order of bugs to maintain a healthy soil as you are constantly adding new inputs. These things are eating each other, essentially, and not harming your plant.

Look at the compost food web. You have an entire biological process for digesting fallen leaves or cover crops into actual plant usable ions. It doesn't just include microscopic things.

http://compost.css.cornell.edu/invertebrates.html

Knowing what species are present during different stages of compost is a key indicator to how much biological activity you have, and how complete your ecosystem is. You know upon the addition of new raw materials, you should see an increase in primary consumers, etc.

Just more stuff to know. :joint:

dank.Frank

gaiusmarius · Nov 30, 2017

i guess it makes sense, can't expect natural processes if you don't have all the life forms you would have in a outdoor garden. interesting how you have to make sure to leave them mulch or cover crops so they don't eat the stem or the roots i suppose. been playing with the idea to give it a go.

paradoxlost · Dec 1, 2017

Just went out into the forest looking for top dress. Found a dozen or so salamanders to add to the beds. So nice. The more complexity you can have going, or the more scales of life you can add to your ecosystem the better.

troutman · Dec 1, 2017

Using a good Myco Bacteria product will kick start your soil. :tiphat:

paradoxlost · Dec 1, 2017

troutman said:
Using a good Myco Bacteria product will kick start your soil.

Go find an old log and fill up a five gallon of whatever you find underneath. A lot cheaper.

DrBnz · Dec 2, 2017

Once you learn to get your soil "rocking" to where you have the worms, the poo, all your favorite amendments, you have a thick moist mulch layer which is all populated by a nice microbial colony.... If you peek underneath the mulch... "IF" you hit it right, you'll find all sorts of life. But they don't want out. I don't find them crawling thru my house. They stay where life is good.... Now WORMs are crazy.... they'll go on a WALK A BOUT for no reason. Doesn't matter they don't get far before drying up and there's thousands of them. The deserters carcasses get tossed back on the top mulch layer.

wasgedn · Dec 2, 2017

springtails are the most important...its funny that the science didnt have pics of living springtails..only pics of dead springtails are out there..
i love that i have rootmites....their are red colored...
i use neem fert and oil and em5 between cycles and water it twice...

wasgedn · Dec 2, 2017

use myko and bacteria products...or just go with EWC and ACT

greenfox · Dec 3, 2017

DrBnz said:
Once you learn to get your soil "rocking" to where you have the worms, the poo, all your favorite amendments, you have a thick moist mulch layer which is all populated by a nice microbial colony.... If you peek underneath the mulch... "IF" you hit it right, you'll find all sorts of life. But they don't want out. I don't find them crawling thru my house. They stay where life is good.... Now WORMs are crazy.... they'll go on a WALK A BOUT for no reason. Doesn't matter they don't get far before drying up and there's thousands of them. The deserters carcasses get tossed back on the top mulch layer.

Lol this is what my wife was worried about! We could handle a worm or two though

Photosynthesis · Dec 17, 2017

Once you go long enough you will get good guys inhabiting your soil. I add hypoaspis, pill bugs, worms, and nematodes. Then the rest just naturally come. The pill bugs will over populate very quickly and only 15 or 20 can turn into hundreds very fast.

No Till / Living Soil Bugs Needed?

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