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The Coughie House

Coughie

Member
I've been meaning to do this for a while now, since my original thread was derailed, hijacked and ultimately deleted..

I'm a pretty vibrant color, but I know there's crayons in the box that are brighter than I.. And I've been wanting to appeal to those with that knowledge, hoping that some kind folks here will help me "do this right the first time"..

First off, I understand that this is the beginning of years worth of work, and that's how I've designed it. This is my love, this is what I want..

In order to get this ball rolling in the right direction, I'm going to quote myself:

{[(Coughie x NL5H) x Bubba] x [(Coughie x Velvet Rush) x Bubba]} x (Peyote Purple x Bubba)


So besides this idea, I thought I'd share a little bit more of what I'm up to...

I have several Real Seed Company offerings that I plan on doing justice. I want to open pollinate them, and segregate the resulting seeds into phenotypical families upon popping.

I'm hoping each offering will result in at least 3 variations (maybe up to 5) within the seed set, allowing me to turn the 7-8 offerings into 21-24 thru 35-40 different phenotypical landrace families.

I want to then IBL those families towards their selected traits, for pure-landrace recombination later on, as well as for trait-matched landrace hybrid creations.

RSC offerings:
- Chitrali
- Lebanese
- Sinai
- Malana
- Manipuri
- Red Thai
- Mango Thai
- Viet-Laos

And Mazar when they re-release it..


Aside from those, I want to work with the (Peyote Purple x Bubba Kush) genetics from my Coughie idea, and Vader OG's single-release Jawa Pie F2's...

I'm hoping to find males from both gene pools to cross with whatever sort of 'commercial' genetics I can possibly deem worthy.


That gives me three different 'groups' of projects
- The Coughie seedline
- The landrace seedlines
- The commercial seedlines


This is all still pretty much the plan, but I'd like to start this thread off with approaching the Coughie seedline in particular..

I'll have ample questions about landraces, segregating families, when/how/what to recombine later, and what sorts of matchings might make the best landrace hybrids, for which I'm relying quite heavily on The Real Seed Company's 'untamed' releases.. But that's another day, soon..

This is what I'm focused on tackling first:

{[(Coughie x NL5H) x Bubba] x [(Coughie x Velvet Rush) x Bubba]} x (Peyote Purple x Bubba)

The Back Story:

So back around 2004, I came across a bag that was some of the best I've ever had. Soil/earthy/coffee bean/mocha/chocolate aromas, so much frost that the bag stuck to itself and ripped before I smoked the whole quarter... Loaded a bowl, took two hits and took a nap. Woke up to finish it, and took another nap - coming from a guy that can smoke indica and do chores (highly functional smoker), I was absolutely floored/shocked.

The biggest surprise was the ~20 seeds that fell out of the quarter.

Long story short, only one popped, and I named the plant Coughie.



So I want to turn Coughie from a bagseed into a seed line
Not with reversals or anything though; the hard way.

So this is what I've drafted up for a game plan:

{[(Coughie x NL5H) x Bubba] x [(Coughie x Velvet Rush) x Bubba]} x (Peyote Purple x Bubba)

50% Bubba Kush
25% Peyote Purple
12.5% Coughie
6.25% NL5Haze
6.25% Velvet Rush

The aim:
Earthy/coffee bean/mocha/chocolate terpenes
Indica dominant, while keeping some of the NL5H & Velvet Rush heads
Hybrid vigor, short to medium node spacing
Drought tolerant - leathery, thicker leaves


The NL5H pollen is an F3 from some old Coot's stash
The Velvet Rush pollen came from that old Coot's stash too
The Bubba is VerdantGreen's recently released Bubba Kush line
The Peyote Purple from Cannabiogen, a recessive Bubba Kush phenotype

The (Coughie x NL5H) has been completed
The (Coughie x Velvet Rush) will happen soon

I need to then find the Peyote Purple females from my seedstock, as well as sort through VerdantGreen's Bubba Kush for males... Then I can start cracking into (Coughie x NL5H) and (Coughie x Velvet Rush), and get ready to start bringing it all together..

I'd really appreciate any feedback any one could offer though.. here, pm, etc..
This is by far my biggest project right now, but not my only project..


As I stated earlier, the Coughie x NL5H is completed,
And the Coughie x Velvet Rush is underway right now

I've heard from a few folks who were concerned with this plan and me losing the original "Coughie" plant amongst all the crosses.. And I hear you.. But the plant I ended up with, is very-little like her mother... This is definitely an out-cross/accidental pollination, but I have great suspense that the original bag was something Bubba-based..

Coughie, the plant, has some fruity tones, some growth structure, and (maybe someone will agree/disagree) bud structure that is reminiscent of what you'd find in a Bubba x Skunk cross.. Not my favorite thought, the Skunk, but the bud shape is reminiscent of the Katsu cut, with the flowers being more pine-cone shaped than golf-ball shaped like the Pre-98 is, even though thats what the original bag looked like - sticky golf balls.

The fruity tones are a lot akin to what I find in poor imitation Cheese that gets passed around these parts - the 'fruity' Skunk's that they try to pass off as 'Cheese' because it has that same sort of chalky smoke... But its fruit terpenes, instead of stinky feet cheese...

And Cheese is isolated from Skunk itself, yeah?

So with Coughie not being what the mother was, I'm not as concerned with losing this particular expression as I am, in chasing down that mother's expressions...

So the next natural question is - why not just cross Coughie with Bubba and find the phenos you're looking for? Which, I've considered... But if I wanted Bubba in seed form basically, I'd toss Coughie out all together and go with VerdantGreen's Bubba Kush line, and call it a day..

But I want to create something,
I want to create something appealing,
I want to create something unique,

I dont want people to see 'Coughie' and think 'Oh, it's just a Bubba line'... Nothing wrong with that, were that what I aimed for, but that's not my aim here.

Bubba is notoriously slow-growing
And also notoriously indica-expressing

I want to fashion something with more vigor, more head, the same sorts of terpene profiles, but a different experience..

And I'm going to need some help, if anyone would be so-kind..



My first set of questions pertains to these first couple of crosses, naturally..

Coughie x NL5H
Coughie x Velvet Rush
Peyote Purple x Bubba Kush


So I plan to IBL these three crosses separately from the Coughie line, after they've been put to use.. The combinations are too unique to just use for this one project and them toss them into the wind..

My first real question - How far along do I/would you IBL these three lines before moving to the next step of combinations for Coughie project?


With the Coughie x NL5Haze, I've been told that the Haze holds some of the same terpenes that I'm searching for.. So I'm hoping to isolate something that has a sativa head-kick, with those chocolate/mocha/soil terpenes

With the Coughie x Velvet Rush, I'm hoping to accentuate the fruitiness within Coughie, that I speculate came from something Skunk-ish, alongside the flower structure and stretch of Velvet Rush

With the Peyote Purple x Bubba Kush, I'm hoping to find males that are both purple and green, that have all of the soil/earthy/coffee/mocha/chocolate terpenes - more indica expressions to bring the NL5Haze and Velvet Rush counterparts back towards the 50/50 indica/sativa hybrid-expressions..


So, to restate the first question - how far would you go towards IBLing these three crosses before you'd feel (roughly, i understand, can't really know until I do it) comfortable considering proceeding to the next step?


I'm really hoping this thread doesnt get filled with bogusness, as I'd really like to bring together some bright minds if i can, and would love to eventually be able to share some of this hard work, but these things can only happen on a two-way street paved with respect.

Thanks for reading this novel,
Feel free to pitch in,

And let's see where this road leads us all~
 

Coughie

Member
Here is Coughie, as she grows:

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(These were taken a few runs ago)
 

Coughie

Member
My set up consists of ( 3 ) 4' x 4' x 7' tents; one for veg and two for flower; and a single 2.5' x 2.5' x 5' tent for drying.

Each flower tent consists of a 150-gallon smart pot centered under a 600 watt HPS, with a carbon filter leading through the air-cooled hood. The two air-cooled hoods come together in a wye, which feeds into a 6" vortex fan, out a duct silencer and into the rest of the house.

Both smart pots are filled with roughly the same mixture, which is essentially Clackamas Coot's original soil 'recipe':

1/3 Compost
1/3 Aeration
1/3 Peat Moss

Per cu. ft.:
1/2 cup Neem Meal
1/2 cup Kelp Meal
1/2 cup Crab Meal
1/2 cup Oyster Shell Flour
1/2 cup Gypsum
~3 cups Rock Dust

One tent is newer than the other, so the original tent has both a Dutch White Clover cover crop as well as the trellis featured in the Coughie pictures above. The newer tent still needs a trellis built and a cover crop established.

I've recently changed things slightly in veg. I used to only veg in 2-gallon smart pots prior to the transplant into the 150-gallon, and could fit anywhere from 4-8 plants in the pot at once.. I've started to veg up to 5-gallon pots, limiting myself to 4 plants per run, but the transformation in veg from 2- to 5-gallon pots has increased the production in flower, exponentially.

This is the first run of Coughie, using the 5-gallon pots in veg and transplanting into the 150-gallon for flower. Coughie is the front-right:

Day 3

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Day 17

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Day 24

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Day 31

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I'll post some more pictures as this run finishes up, to give a thorough idea of what it is that Coughie herself is capable of.
 
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MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Sounds like a lot of testing will need done. Fun fun fun!!!

My first real question - How far along do I/would you IBL these three lines before moving to the next step of combinations for Coughie project?

I would select a few moms n pops from the F1 generation then open pollinate each line, keeping the seeds from each mother separate. F2s will be extremely variable in their phenotypes & selection of parent plants could take you quite a while. Look for the very best of the best (subjective to your desires) & start 1:1 crossings for your F3 gen & repeat. You can continue as long as you desire or until you feel the line is stable for you're selection criteria.

I can't give a definitive number of generations until a particular project is complete & I doubt anybody else can either.
You'll have to make that choice based upon what you observe & what you desire.
 

Coughie

Member
Thanks for chiming in, MJPassion

I know its a highly subjective question and is hard to really give anything definitive..
It's more so a question of do I use F2's or F3's when moving to the next step:

(Coughie x NL5H) x Bubba
(Coughie x Velvet Rush) x Bubba

I was leaning towards F3's of (Coughie x NL5H) & (Coughie x Velvet Rush), as the F2's are wildcards like you mentioned - extremely variable - so my thought was that I could sort through the variance and find what I was looking for...

But do I use those F2 females for the Bubba pollen, or use those F2's that I find to make an F3, and use those F3 females for pollination with Bubba males..

Again, upon writing this I was leaning towards using F3's but I didn't want to influence opinions out the gate by saying too much of what I was thinking and ending up with some folks just "nodding and smiling," if you get what I mean.


Then I'll have to chase those two, second-crossings (Bubba-male pollinations), to ~F3 as well, before attempting to combine them with males from one and females from the other.

Where I'll have to IBL it yet again, for a few generations, to isolate some of those Coughie-NL5H-Velvet Rush traits into a couple/handful of phenotypes.

At which point, I can then lay-on the Peyote Purple x Bubba males for the final combo, where I suspect I'll have to run it out to at least F5-F6 before its cohesive enough that I'm comfortable calling it "a line"..


There's lots of IBLing involved across the whole project, which is what made me wonder about how cruical those first couple crossings are with nailing down specific phenotypes.

Is it crucial at that point to nail down the phenotypes, or just keep combining things until all the various genetics are in there..

I hope that all made sense..

Again, thanks for chiming it,
It's greatly appreciated~!
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
If you've already got the Bubba Stud, consider hitting some ladies in the F2 & the F3 & even beyond if you take things that far.
 

Coughie

Member
I haven't dug into the Bubba's yet..

My thoughts on those..
Maybe folks here will see an issue with it that I can't identify..
Or maybe it's 'kosher'..

My thought process:

1. IBL (Coughie x NL5H) to appropriate generation - F2/F3
2. IBL (Coughie x Velvet Rush) to appropriate generation - F2/F3
3. Select 3-4 (Coughie x NL5H) & 3-4 (Coughie x Velvet Rush) females
4. Germinate and select 3-4 Peyote Purple females

**This will give me 9-12 females, total**

5. Germinate Bubba Kush
6. Select 3-4 females, 3-4 males
7. IBL Bubba Kush

8. Pollinate **selected females** with Bubba Kush males


(Coughie x NL5H) & (Coughie x Velvet Rush) F1's are each about ~200 seeds in quantity, and I want to dig through all (90%, always save 10% as a 'back up') of the F1's before I make F2's, so due to the numbers/space game I'm going to need to do this in steps.

Each generation will probably generate more seeds than the previous, which continues the need for a step-by-step process. After one is narrowed down to the select females in the final generation, I can narrow down the next one.

The Peyote Purple females just need to be identified - already IBL'd enough - so that will be a quick step.

The Bubba Kush will come last just because I dont want to have a handful of males lingering for longer than they need be.

But that means its the same 3-4 Bubba males in:

(Coughie x NL5H) x Bubba
(Coughie x Velvet Rush) x Bubba
Peyote Purple x Bubba

.. As well as the Bubba IBL..


Is there a chance that using the same males for all these females, to make each of these three steps - which get combined all together - is there a chance this could wreak genetic havoc later on down the 'IBL line'?

... That's why I dont want to use just 1 male though... Or even a single female for that matter..
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I prefer multiple parentals as well, over 1:1 breeding pairs.

I think you'll have a greater chance to find what you desire, since there's more genetic input, as well as decrease the amount of genetic bottlenecking within a given line.

However, You could also pollinate all the females in rounds with each individual male keeping seed separated. It's a lot more work but using this method would allow you to remove a potential undesirable pollen doner entirely from the project, if his offspring doesn't perform to your desires.

In the end, it's nearly impossible to predict the outcome of a particular NEW crossing.

Coughie looks real nice too, btw. :biggrin:
 

Coughie

Member
I prefer multiple parentals as well, over 1:1 breeding pairs.

I think you'll have a greater chance to find what you desire, since there's more genetic input, as well as decrease the amount of genetic bottlenecking within a given line.

However, You could also pollinate all the females in rounds with each individual male keeping seed separated. It's a lot more work but using this method would allow you to remove a potential undesirable pollen donor entirely from the project, if his offspring doesn't perform to your desires.

In the end, it's nearly impossible to predict the outcome of a particular NEW crossing.

Coughie looks real nice too, btw. :biggrin:

Interesting thread!! I'll be watching!


Thanks for the kind words~


I've been giving the different breeding concepts some thought, been sleeping on them for a few days now and I think different steps of the process might require various methods.

I can see the 1:1 sequential breedings with multiple males to the same female, in order to evaluate offspring, being effective within the inter-workings of the project.. It will take longer, but produce better quality, which may be the route to take for those steps.

I'm rather confident that once I have the final cross all composed, it will be best to open pollinate with several males, as originally stated..

I'm even giving thought to the:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
{[(Coughie x NL5H) x Bubba] x [(Coughie x Velvet Rush) x Bubba]} x (Peyote Purple x Bubba) F2


And segregating that F3 generation into multiple lines itself.. a #1, #2, #3, #4, #5...
I dont think I would want to maintain more than 5 different lines, and quite possibly less depending on the expressions exhibited.

Thoughts upon thoughts!


Oh, I wanted to share something that seems to be rarely documented as well:

Dutch White Clover flowering under 11/13:

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This picture was taken a few days ago.. You can see two flowers in the picture, one very clearly and one hiding behind leaves off-to-the-left. At last count, a third flower had also presented itself.

Clover will-indeed, flower in a grow tent.
I've read statements saying that it wont.

[/FONT]
 
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Coughie

Member
I just realized there's still some genetics stashed around here that I haven't even gave mention to! Whoops!

I've been doing 'the mad dash' through a bunch of genetics lately, looking for keeper females only, before I get to the landraces and lines I intend to breed with..

There's a handful of these seedlings left, waiting to be sexed;
And there's another small batch of seeds to pop for a few more females.

The batch growing include:

x2 - (Mazar x Guerrero) x (Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush)
x6 - 'The One' x (The Black x NL5H)
x6 - 'The One' x Panama
x1 - Mazar x Panama
x2 - Super Skunk Bx


The next/final batch of seeds for keeper females include:

- ACE Panama
- ACE Malawi
- CannaBioGen Panama
- CannaBioGen Jarilla
- Seedsman Cheese (fem)

The Cheese was won in the Seedsman contest that's ongoing
It's not here yet but I'll be popping it when it shows

The ACE/CBG stuff is beautiful, but quite line-bred already so there's not much left to be done with it beyond outcrossing to make hybrids. Which is awesome in it's own right, but I'm looking to have a more personal influence on the lines I want to work with, something deeper than choosing which plants/IBLs are used to create polyhybrids.

Life is full of surprises, so I may find a female or two worth using in some fashion. I'm not going to discount it entirely, but they'll have to be stunners.


Back to the Cheese however..
Last Halloween, Vader OG had a special 8-hour release of some of his recent work, in early generations.. I happened to pick up the Jawa Pie (I believe it's an F2, before he started the backcrossing work)

So I've been kicking around the idea of a (Cheese S1 x Jawa Pie F2) cross

There's a few cuts I've been pondering about getting my paws on, for the same Jawa Pie males, to make some 'commercial' crosses that I mentioned in my first post:

- Bruce Banner #3
- Gorilla Glue #4
- Northern Lights #5
- Forum Cut GSC

If one of the Super Skunk Bx comes out to be male, I might do a (Cheese S1 x Super Skunk Bx) as well
(Could be fem though; They were Seedbay freebies and I never figured out who made them or when)

I want to play with this Jawa Pie offering because I'll never see it again in that early of a generation;
Strong variation from the Key Lime end to the Alien end of the spectrum.

I dont want to IBL it though, as that's Vader's line and I dont work like that
I also dont wanna step on any GG #4 toes - Joesy and crew
So if that's out of line, just let me know~


Anyway, I thought I'd unveil a few more of the ideas knocking around in my noggin.. Let me know if any of these particular ideas appeals to anyone, I'm interested in what you all think.

Thanks for reading along, this far~
 
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Coughie

Member
As promised, here's Coughie at harvest,
Day 65

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Temps got high in the last 2-3 weeks of the grow, so she foxtailed a little more than is normal, but the frost and more importantly, the terpenes, are all still there..

Yield increased this round over previous rounds due to vegging into a 5-gallon smart pot where previously was only up to a 2-gallon

See if I can keep this thread moving in the forward direction lol
 
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Coughie

Member
The batch growing include:

x2 - (Mazar x Guerrero) x (Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush)
x6 - 'The One' x (The Black x NL5H)
x6 - 'The One' x Panama
x1 - Mazar x Panama
x2 - Super Skunk Bx


The next/final batch of seeds for keeper females include:

- ACE Panama
- ACE Malawi
- CannaBioGen Panama
- CannaBioGen Jarilla
- Seedsman Cheese (fem)

The Cheese was won in the Seedsman contest that's ongoing
It's not here yet but I'll be popping it when it shows

The ACE/CBG stuff is beautiful, but quite line-bred already so there's not much left to be done with it beyond outcrossing to make hybrids. Which is awesome in it's own right, but I'm looking to have a more personal influence on the lines I want to work with, something deeper than choosing which plants/IBLs are used to create polyhybrids.

Life is full of surprises, so I may find a female or two worth using in some fashion. I'm not going to discount it entirely, but they'll have to be stunners.


This list of seedlings was narrowed down some:

x1 - (Mazar x Guerrero) x (Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush)
x5 - 'The One' x (The Black x NL5H)


The Coughie x Velvet Rush was harvested;
Not as many seeds as I'd hoped but enough to do what I need to do, so it'll work.


And I'm trying to figure out whether to look into the Panama or the Malawi first; decisions, decisions!

Might pop ten of the Coughie x NL5Haze too..
 

rockymountainJ

Active member
I've been wanting Malawi since I was wee lad lol
Looking good cough!! Keep up the hunt. You'll make what your looking for sooner or later!!
 

Coughie

Member
I hear ya,
I've wanted to grow it since I first read the strain description and seen the pictures

Part of me is thinking of crossing the two - Malawi x Panama
I dont think I'll keep either of the lines, pure, but that cross sounds tantalizing to me


'Keep up the hunt,' I shall! lol
 

3rdEye

Alchemical Botanist
Veteran
subbed up. I am very interested in your results with your own crosses and some of these other genetics as well. Coughie is a very photogenic plant. Great work.
 

Coughie

Member
subbed up. I am very interested in your results with your own crosses and some of these other genetics as well. Coughie is a very photogenic plant. Great work.

Glad to have you along for the ride, bud;
Sorry it took me so long to welcome ya,
But you knew you were more than welcome in any case~!


So I ended up passing on popping both the Malawi and the Panama,

Instead, I opted to pop some aging beans that were gifted to me in order to save the genetics and begin to IBL the line.
Should prove to be pretty special over the long run.

Started with 22 seeds,
18 were worthy of soil
Lost 2/18 to lack of growth/rot

Of the 16 left, 7 are above soil
All seven have shed seedcoats with a little help
The other 9 appear to be coming up

What are they?

Blue Mystic x Velvet Rush


There's a little bit of documentation out there previously about these seeds, it seems these F1's grow like Blue Mystic and smoke like Velvet Rush..

I'll definitely be selecting the sativa phenotypes; After tossing any mutants, runts or indica phenotypes, I'll sex everything, take cuttings of everything and run all the females through flower.

Upon evaluating the smoke, I plan to select the best 3-5 females and dust them with the best 3-5 males, to make F2's and begin the IBL process.


On a side note, I've been looking for Blue Mystic - a PNW clone, I believe? - information, if anyone knows anything or has some older quotes about it, it would be much appreciated~
 

Coughie

Member
Woohoo!
I like more company~

Man, should have seen her mom tho!

I like the smoke, but I think it can be improved upon
Part of that idea though is based on a synergistic relationship that I have with the plant... I can smoke her any day, all day, every day, and function almost like I haven't smoked, but others smoke her and get bloodshot eyes, the munchies, and want to watch a movie or take a nap..

It almost sucks to share it, because it kills the "company"..
If I wanted to send someone home though?... Perfect, lol.


I've actually been sitting here, for the first time, after swearing I wouldn't...
I've been considering learning about and undertaking the idea of Selfing her..

Maybe some S1's would show me something more like what her mother was..

But I dont want to derail my 'project' as it is - I still want to make a heady-version of a Bubba-esque sort of line.. Something 'new', in combination anyway..

That's what the momma was, something-Bubba.. almost entirely indica
Two-toke Sleeper


I imagine you read it all though, the thread? Lol, thats a bit to chew off~
Thanks for catching up and tagging along~!
 
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