The Origin Of Cannabis

Emperor Herer · Jun 14, 2010

Cool project I have been watching for years... Human migration... for 100,000 years or so...

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it. :kiss:

darwinsbulldog · Jul 9, 2010

brilliant thread rick thanks for putting this together, i'll have to read it all as soon as i get the chance

keep the info coming guys!

englishrick · Jul 9, 2010

thanks man...

ive been wondering what to add to it lately tho

darwinsbulldog · Jul 9, 2010

i've been wondering lately about the african landraces. as i don't think (from what i've read) cannabis evolved there, it must have been transported by traders and farmers many 1000s of years ago, hence becoming landraces. i'm wondering if this is right or not? and if so, though we probably can't answer the question here, where do the genetics of these african landrace strains originate from, the closest parts of asia? or maybe the furthest parts to the east? it'd be really interested to know. my masters project studies these sorts of questions and that's why i'd love to one day do something to answer these sorts of things and work out where the most likely place cannabis sativa originated/evolved, there has to be only one region that can claim this. ahh also the same goes for the south american landraces.

englishrick · Jul 9, 2010

Raco once posted something about trade routes from Clark`s Hashish...

yeh i think you right,,,hemp is not endigenous to Africa

but i personly think cannabis is a product of domestication syndrome,,,,so i think most cannabis evolved compleetly inderpendantly anyways,,,,hemp was distrabuted and inside populations of hemp dwarf drug phenos were selectivly bred inderpendantly

the vaireation and distrabution of hemp species an the precursors to hemp species is more intresting than cannabis imo

darwinsbulldog · Jul 9, 2010

yeah well said, definitely worth thinking about!

englishrick · Jul 9, 2010

sorry,,,id just like to mention,,,i dont use the words "cannabis sativa" to discribe hemp,,,,i know alot of biologist do,,,,,,,,to make it easy,,i just call them "hemp species" and "cannabis species or biotypes",,,,,,,,,i feel the words "cannabis sativa" when used t dicribe hemp confuses people like me "weedhead stoner growers"

elmanito · Jul 9, 2010

According to Karl Hillig every cannabis which belongs to the drug gene pool is called Cannabis indica, also the Thai, Jamaican or oldskool Mexicans etc.
The Cannabis sativa is in his eyes the hemp gene pool.

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/reprint/91/6/966

Namaste :plant grow:

mriko · Jul 9, 2010

i've been wondering lately about the african landraces. as i don't think (from what i've read) cannabis evolved there, it must have been transported by traders and farmers many 1000s of years ago, hence becoming landraces. i'm wondering if this is right or not? and if so, though we probably can't answer the question here, where do the genetics of these african landrace strains originate from, the closest parts of asia? or maybe the furthest parts to the east? it'd be really interested to know. my masters project studies these sorts of questions and that's why i'd love to one day do something to answer these sorts of things and work out where the most likely place cannabis sativa originated/evolved, there has to be only one region that can claim this. ahh also the same goes for the south american landraces.

African landraces originates from Indian sub-continent for the most part, introduced by Arab traders. For South African ones, many have been brought by African slaves, but also by Western invaders (to a lesser extent) & Indian coolies (Caribbeans) have brought with them their Indian home strains.

According to Karl Hillig every cannabis which belongs to the drug gene pool is called Cannabis indica, also the Thai, Jamaican or oldskool Mexicans etc.
The Cannabis sativa is in his eyes the hemp gene pool.

Indeed, but he admits himself that there were not enough strains to analyse so as to get a clear & final picture.
Plus, there are areas were the same crop is grown for charas, seeds & fibers (such as Darchula district in Nepal), a production system which, according to R.C. Clark, was quite widespread in Asia, prior to the relatively recent influences of market economics and law enforcement.

Irie !

Raco · Jul 10, 2010

From Clarke´s Hashish!

gkn · Jul 10, 2010

This thread is so interesting! thanks for your posts elmanito and Raco!
keep it up!

saludos

Hrpuffnkush · Jul 10, 2010

Cannabis adapts just like humans

Cannabis adapts just like humans

elmanito said:
According to Karl Hillig every cannabis which belongs to the drug gene pool is called Cannabis indica, also the Thai, Jamaican or oldskool Mexicans etc.
The Cannabis sativa is in his eyes the hemp gene pool.

At certain point in time the DNA of a plant changed cannabis/hemp is born....

I was Speaking with Robert about this, and he said same thing
All hemp is sativa and vs versa , All cannabis containing psychoactive properties is indica , leaf shape does not necessarily determine plant species ...
Robert seems to think Cannabis/hemp originated in China
id agree, Also he seems to think that prehistoric neolithic man
were first to discover the magical properties and since then man has spread cannabis/hemp were ever he has gone..
Wich i would guess its safe to say technically the only landrace strains are hemp. All other other psychoactive strains would be heriloom strains/basic hybrids due to man introducing them to new environments and and species. ?
Depending on how long strain stays in a certain region over time im sure it would adapt to it surroundings climate and environmental
factors and over time will adapt displaying its new characteristics

In theroy this can be solved and soon im sure will ....

Really great post!!!!!! i love this stuff!
:jump:

darwinsbulldog · Jul 10, 2010

yeah that's it, i think the terms sativa and indica must have been mistakenly used to describe two different common phenotypes of cannabis indica... but in all the papers i read they refer to the psychoactive cannabis as cannabis sativa. they make things really confusing by doing this. it's Cannabis sativa sativa = hemp and Cannabis sativa indica = psychoactive drug cannabis correct? so the C. sativa sativa is one subspecies and C. sativa indica is another, but yeah i rarely ever see anyone ever use the subspecies name on the end of C. sativa to describe either, most people seem to just use the species name. also i think people must've started to use sativa to describe those tall spindly indica phenotypes that resembled the tall fibre hemp phenos. correct me if i'm wrong.

i also believe that the word indica means india, as this is where the psychoactive drug was first found by westerners at least, whether or not it originated there.

did a quick search and there's some great info on wiki on the taxonomy, though i haven't read all of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis

mriko · Jul 10, 2010

i also believe that the word indica means india, as this is where the psychoactive drug was first found by westerners at least, whether or not it originated there.

Indeed, C. indica was first described by Lamarck, from a South Indian palnt, if memory serves me.

most people seem to just use the species name. also i think people must've started to use sativa to describe those tall spindly indica phenotypes that resembled the tall fibre hemp phenos. correct me if i'm wrong.

This is Schultes' classification, established according to the physical traits of the plants. It is the most commonly used actually, but not 100% confirmed as there is no final word yet as to what is what.

Irie !

darwinsbulldog · Jul 10, 2010

yeah hopefully one day someone goes through and can work out the genetic relationships (how closely they're all related) between all the subspecies etc and classify it all properly. it'd be really interesting to see the distance between them, as i'm sure there'd be some surprises there to be discovered. like a lot of domesticated animals though, they are effectively the same species as the wild ones they've been domesticated from, eg. canis lupus (grey wolf) and Canis lupus familiaris (common domesticated dog). though they look nothing alike if you compare a chihuahua and a wolf, they're the same species. so i'd say if all these varieties of cannabis are the same.

englishrick · Jul 10, 2010

yess,,,,,,i think we need to classify it without the confusion ,,,

id like to use hillig`s biotype names or Mc Partlands,,but the hemp classification of sativa still confuses everything

ps,,,thanks Raco

,,,,its cool to know your keepin an eye on me,,,,,looks like your standing by your sig,,,,a man of his word,,,

Hrpuffnkush · Jul 10, 2010

im working on a basic DNA Familial cannabis data base... If others do the same the family tree will start to show its self....

im sure a lot of previous information on cannabis will change do to the advance of technology

Indica (or indicum) means "of India", or "Indian", in Latin and is applied to things connected with India or South Asia

englishrick · Jul 11, 2010

id love to be involved in a total reclassification,,,thats a major dream right there!,,,,,full cannabis reform!

darwinsbulldog · Jul 11, 2010

englishrick said:
id love to be involved in a total reclassification,,,thats a major dream right there!,,,,,full cannabis reform!

lol me too!! where do i sign up haha

englishrick · Jul 11, 2010

id like to see a new classification

,,,

something to classify the weed i smoke,,,

"no way,,, this herb aint aint cannabis

,,what you talking about willis"

The Origin Of Cannabis

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