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High Altitude Quality, Is it More Because of Conditions and Not UV?

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
The highest quality hashish producing areas of the country have historically all been high altitude areas. This has been known for hundreds of years by those growing in the best areas of the world.
Higher Quality at Elevation
https://hightimes.com/grow/grow-hack-does-uv-light-increase-cannabis-potency/ said:
When we were still working in this field we were told that the production of the active resin, in any kind of Cannabis plant, depends entirely on the altitude of the plantation; for example, you get rich charas or bhang in northern India only at a certain height above sea level. It was also reported that in order to obtain active resin one had to plant Cannabis in Germany near Roserheim, not far from Munich, which again is above a certain altitude.”

High THC is found naturally in strains between the two parallels shown in the map. Areas of high hashish production in the Rif Mountains of Morocco, the Beqaa Valley of Lebanon and the Hindu Kush are all on the cusp of the 30 °N, but are all at a high altitude. This perfect balance of climate and sun exposure allows those places to grow the greatest hash plants in the world.

While I believe the information regarding altitude and quality is correct, I believe also they're not correct in correlating it mainly to UV exposure. I've personally produced cannabis significantly higher in quality than growers in my same areas, by adopting the same type of environment in my own grow rooms as you would find at high altitudes. There are quite a few growers who have worked on duplicating UV exposure and plant quality, with various and mostly little detectable difference.

I personally use the amount of UV produced by a 1000w HPS lamp, un-shielded, in a 4x4 flowering space. This is not a lot, especially not what you would find at elevation. I work to mimic the temps and humidity of high mountain growing conditions. Cool temps around 68-70F and dry conditions between 20-30RH.
Cool and dry temperatures, and lots of air flow to create a very high transpiration rate.

High Transpiration in High Altitude Plants
Transpiration at elevation has already been studied by several people and it's what I work to duplicate.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4242168/ said:
Gale (1972b, 1973) predicted and demonstrated a potential increase of transpiration with altitude when there is less than the average lapse rate of ambient temperature (about 0.6 °C/100 m at mid-latitudes). This results from the higher total radiation absorbed by leaves, the increase in the diffusion coefficient of water vapour in air at reduced barometric pressure and the increased density gradient of H2O vapour from the leaf to the ambient air. This is contrary to the case of CO2 influx into leaves, where the two diffusion factors tend to cancel out (Gale, 1972a). Consequently, transpiration rates at high altitude may be very high, as for example in Mediterranean climates where temperature inversions are common (Cohen et al., 1981). Under such conditions and where water is available and stomata remain open, a 1000 m elevation above sea level may bring about a doubling of transpiration rates.

Smaller Plants and Smaller Flowers
Almost everything grows smaller at altitude. There is less oxygen, carbon dioxide, generally fewer availble nutrients, lower levels of water and lower temperatures. There's usually a much shorter growing season as well, but when you're indoor it can be as long as you like. Since you don't get the explosion of plant growth you do in tropical environments, the flowers are also smaller in final size while being very trichome dense.

The solution for the same yields with high altitude conditions cannabis is to veg longer with slightly more flower sites. The flowers go through a much shorter stretch and finish with less bulk, while sporting a higher resin to plant ratio. Essentially my theory on why such high quality hash can be made, it's the ridiculous terpene retention and cannabinoid content of the end product. Shorter plants with a higher concentration of trichomes. :)

What are your thoughts?
 
7

707OGBUSH970

Arid conditions are one thing, but I think UV does play a role. I have noticed more trichomes when using UV supplementation, but only when I used it over the entire life cycle and at increasing amounts as I went, starting with small amounts. If you use it only during the last weeks, or too much too early, the plant either doesn't respond, or is slightly stunted, respectively. Also, I noticed that full spectrum plus UV has more of an effect. I wasn't really seeing it with HPS plus direct UV supplementation, but I started to see results when using a full daylight--what most would consider veg--spectrum. HPS is a very anemic light cycle. Real sunlight is very strong right across the board. I believe that its genetics, plus arid conditions plus full spectrum, plus UV, plus terroir then human and other stressors. Not necessarily in that order. YMMV
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Well put and I appreciate the detail you've put into your experimentation. I can see how plants would respond better to full-life exposure, it's the beginning which plays a large part in how the plant responds to future input. Would you say the presence of UV is the main cause of quality, or would you say the arid/cool conditions contribute more?

Personally, I've had the same response with all genetics so far (mainly sativa dom hybrids), super frosty, resinous and terpene rich. Growers don't recognize the flowers out of my garden from their own cuts, in my experience.
 

yesum

Well-known member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
It may have more to do with overall light intensity than in uvb or uva. I have heard this from a grower in Hawaii. Weezard I believe said it.

I would try to mimic the light spectrum of high altitude which is almost blue. High Kelvin light. I use a 10,000 Kelvin fluorescent light with a bit of uvb at the end of flower. HPS might be great but is not anything like sun at altitude or anywhere else.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Hrmmm... I've had cannabis from both MH and HPS, as well as mixed spectrum. All from hot/humid gardens, and it's nothing like what comes out of a cool/dry room. You'll have a hard time convincing me it's a spectrum thing.


Now, as far as the high goes I'm guessing the UV angle will produce a more complex high/stone/terpen-profile. I don't really know.
 
7

707OGBUSH970

Well put and I appreciate the detail you've put into your experimentation. I can see how plants would respond better to full-life exposure, it's the beginning which plays a large part in how the plant responds to future input. Would you say the presence of UV is the main cause of quality, or would you say the arid/cool conditions contribute more?

Personally, I've had the same response with all genetics so far (mainly sativa dom hybrids), super frosty, resinous and terpene rich. Growers don't recognize the flowers out of my garden from their own cuts, in my experience.

Its hard to say sometimes. But I think that the dry conditions really do play a significant role. I have often thought about doing a side by side experiment to see how much, but its often difficult to fine tune humidity to experiment-acceptable conditions where I am. I feel like if I cold fine tune it more, it would also play more of a role. However, yield is also affected slightly, due to VPD and other things. So the key would be finding the sweet spot.
 
7

707OGBUSH970

It may have more to do with overall light intensity than in uvb or uva. I have heard this from a grower in Hawaii. Weezard I believe said it.

I would try to mimic the light spectrum of high altitude which is almost blue. High Kelvin light. I use a 10,000 Kelvin fluorescent light with a bit of uvb at the end of flower. HPS might be great but is not anything like sun at altitude or anywhere else.

Actually I agree with this, too. But I think only up to a point, especially indoor. There seems to be threshold for this. You never quite get the same response out of plants with low light levels, they just don't seem to have enough energy. I think we have all hit on it and its combo of all these things. What we call optimal conditions. All I know is some of the dankest comes from Hawaii due to terroir the microbiology of the place. Great post. Hopefully others will chime in.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Hrmmm... I've had cannabis from both MH and HPS, as well as mixed spectrum. All from hot/humid gardens, and it's nothing like what comes out of a cool/dry room. You'll have a hard time convincing me it's a spectrum thing.


Now, as far as the high goes I'm guessing the UV angle will produce a more complex high/stone/terpen-profile. I don't really know.


How is UV NOT a part of the spectrum?


As far as the original question goes...
If it were just a spectrum thing we'd all be growing under black lights.
 

BerrySeal

Member
Smaller trichomes from arid conditions make better dry sift. Not sure how/if that relates to overall quality of the herb though. Just another variable to consider.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
How is UV NOT a part of the spectrum?
LOL I meant when talking about indoor re-creation of high altitude conditions. I've been re-creating everything but the higher UV from high altitude sun exposure and full sun spectrum. I believe the higher UV exposure is only a tiny variable in the equation of what creates higher quality at higher altitudes.


CVH, glad to finally get it posted. Thank you everyone for sharing what you know, it all helps immensely. :D
 

LostTribe

Well-known member
Premium user
The highest quality hashish producing areas of the country have historically all been high altitude areas. This has been known for hundreds of years by those growing in the best areas of the world.
Higher Quality at Elevation


While I believe the information regarding altitude and quality is correct, I believe also they're not correct in correlating it mainly to UV exposure. I've personally produced cannabis significantly higher in quality than growers in my same areas, by adopting the same type of environment in my own grow rooms as you would find at high altitudes. There are quite a few growers who have worked on duplicating UV exposure and plant quality, with various and mostly little detectable difference.

I personally use the amount of UV produced by a 1000w HPS lamp, un-shielded, in a 4x4 flowering space. This is not a lot, especially not what you would find at elevation. I work to mimic the temps and humidity of high mountain growing conditions. Cool temps around 68-70F and dry conditions between 20-30RH.
Cool and dry temperatures, and lots of air flow to create a very high transpiration rate.

High Transpiration in High Altitude Plants
Transpiration at elevation has already been studied by several people and it's what I work to duplicate.


Smaller Plants and Smaller Flowers
Almost everything grows smaller at altitude. There is less oxygen, carbon dioxide, generally fewer availble nutrients, lower levels of water and lower temperatures. There's usually a much shorter growing season as well, but when you're indoor it can be as long as you like. Since you don't get the explosion of plant growth you do in tropical environments, the flowers are also smaller in final size while being very trichome dense.

The solution for the same yields with high altitude conditions cannabis is to veg longer with slightly more flower sites. The flowers go through a much shorter stretch and finish with less bulk, while sporting a higher resin to plant ratio. Essentially my theory on why such high quality hash can be made, it's the ridiculous terpene retention and cannabinoid content of the end product. Shorter plants with a higher concentration of trichomes. :)

What are your thoughts?


Light intensity at altitude is much greater.
 

Earlmarne

Member
The highest quality hashish producing areas of the country have historically all been high altitude areas. This has been known for hundreds of years by those growing in the best areas of the world.
Higher Quality at Elevation


While I believe the information regarding altitude and quality is good correct, I believe also they're not correct in correlating it mainly to UV exposure. I've personally produced cannabis significantly higher in quality than growers in my same areas, by adopting the same type of environment in my own grow rooms as you would find at high altitudes. There are quite a few growers who have worked on duplicating UV exposure and plant quality, with various and mostly little detectable difference.

I personally use the amount of UV produced by a 1000w HPS lamp, un-shielded, in a 4x4 flowering space. This is not a lot, especially not what you would find at elevation. I work to mimic the temps and humidity of high mountain growing conditions. Cool temps around 68-70F and dry conditions between 20-30RH.
Cool and dry temperatures, and lots of air flow to create a very high transpiration rate.

High Transpiration in High Altitude Plants
Transpiration at elevation has already been studied by several people and it's what I work to duplicate.


Smaller Plants and Smaller Flowers
Almost everything grows smaller at altitude. There is less oxygen, carbon dioxide, generally fewer availble nutrients, lower levels of water and lower temperatures. There's usually a much shorter growing season as well, but when you're indoor it can be as long as you like. Since you don't get the explosion of plant growth you do in tropical environments, the flowers are also smaller in final size while being very trichome dense.

The solution for the same yields with high altitude conditions cannabis is to veg longer with slightly more flower sites. The flowers go through a much shorter stretch and finish with less bulk, while sporting a higher resin to plant ratio. Essentially my theory on why such high quality hash can be made, it's the ridiculous terpene retention and cannabinoid content of the end product. Shorter plants with a higher concentration of trichomes. :)

What are your thoughts?

Just following this thread as it is interesting to me.
Never really noticed a differencein outdoor from hight alt, but outdoor around here is always pretty mid grade so who knows
Your low humidity theory I find very interesting. My results in my small time garden contradict this and it makes me ponder if my results have been mis read.
For about a year maybe more Raising rh is of top priority.
My cuttings abd smaller veg are night and day as far as vigor. Early flower I also see much more healthy growth in a high rh environment. I imagine that is somewhat strain dependent.
My recirc system was going through maybe 5 gallons a day with low humidity. I stick to almost 10 most of my runs now, I view that as transpiration. Though I am hardly scientific. Little off topic, sorry
So that brings me to the topic at hand. I would venture to guess that any perceived rise in quality may be is from many inputs.
Geographically speaking we may be looking at genetics. That though would not play as much into modern times I wouldnt think.
I guess I need to do some reading. It honestly does not make sense to me beyond looking into before genetics were spread so abundantly. I would be suprised to see any solid evidence linking elevation and quality
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
The world's top producers of hash all agree, below a certain elevation the quality suffers.

I count a high transpiration rate as one of the keys to growing cleanly. Balancing a low feed with a high transpiration rate (in my opinion) keeps everything moving at a good speed, providing nutrients where needed and on time. Any time transpiration slows, I know I'm hurting quality.

When you played with low RH, were you also keeping your rooms at 68-70F? Plants definitely suffer in low RH with moderate to high heat.


As for light intensity, I've been running about 62wpsqft for a few years now. I prefer a 1K HPS in a 4x4 so far.
 

Earlmarne

Member
The world's top producers of hash all agree, below a certain elevation the quality suffers.

I count a high transpiration rate as one of the keys to growing cleanly. Balancing a low feed with a high transpiration rate (in my opinion) keeps everything moving at a good speed, providing nutrients where needed and on time. Any time transpiration slows, I know I'm hurting quality.

When you played with low RH, were you also keeping your rooms at 68-70F? Plants definitely suffer in low RH with moderate to high heat.


As for light intensity, I've been running about 62wpsqft for a few years now. I prefer a 1K HPS in a 4x4 so far.

Def never kept my temps that low. I do notice better terpene production this run with like a 4 degree temp drop. Like 80 max with rh at 70 til week 3 then 50 to 60 on out with 78 high. Last run was mid 80s.
Ill have to run some controls, goes against everything ive come to understand, like 30 rh is big nono lAnd. But that very well could be temp related.
 
G

GatorGumbo

You can probably chalk it up to the plants seeing a harsher trend of stress throughout their lifetime which is resulting in more pronounced defense mechanisms. The air is less dense, the light is filtered less, and the temperatures tend to be lower with less variation.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Def never kept my temps that low. I do notice better terpene production this run with like a 4 degree temp drop. Like 80 max with rh at 70 til week 3 then 50 to 60 on out with 78 high. Last run was mid 80s.
Ill have to run some controls, goes against everything ive come to understand, like 30 rh is big nono lAnd. But that very well could be temp related.


What's interesting is almost all my experience is with low temp, low RH conditions. For nearly 15 years I've lived in super dry areas, where I could only afford A/C. The cool temps produced the healthiest plants, and dang they turn out frosty and terpene rich. You noticed a difference with only 4 degrees cooler, imagine another 10 to 15. ;) I would greatly appreciate you doing some controls and posting your results here. I definitely would. :D


Gatorgumbo, it definitely could be contributing. Yes. :)
 

Earlmarne

Member
What's interesting is almost all my experience is with low temp, low RH conditions. For nearly 15 years I've lived in super dry areas, where I could only afford A/C. The cool temps produced the healthiest plants, and dang they turn out frosty and terpene rich. You noticed a difference with only 4 degrees cooler, imagine another 10 to 15. ;) I would greatly appreciate you doing some controls and posting your results here. I definitely would. :D


Gatorgumbo, it definitely could be contributing. Yes. :)

My big fear is lowering metabolism with co2 input but I will def. try some lower temps incrementally
 

Douglas.Curtis

Autistic Diplomat in Training
Yes, UV increases with altitude but I don't use UV and still get terpene/resin rich plants.

There is **definitely** less vigor during flowering with low temps and humidity. You literally have to veg longer, because you're not going to get explosive flower production. The end result is a greatly reduced % of "plant" material at harvest.

Look at the "Marijuana Should Never be Smoked" thread, and you can read all the descriptions of how harsh cannabis is when grown incorrectly. Coughing, sore throat, hot lungs, smoker's cough, randomly coughing up black phlem, coughing up lung butter in a hot shower... none of this happens with trichome dense cannabis, grown cool and dry, with balanced nutes and a clean growing style. :)

Granted, a lot of this is from not HEPA filtering their air, but the vast majority is from poorly grown cannabis with low trichome density and poor quality grow methods.
 
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