Breading IBL's into F1 fem plants.

Red October

Active member

• Jul 17, 2020

• #1

Can anyone send me some links to info on this please. Most of what I've found has been more about stabilising F1 varieties which is fine with regular seeds but with many breeders rather opting for a female compatriots what's the best course to trying to retain certain features from the F1 fem?

If you breed an IBL into an f1 variety, do you still stand the chance for another F1 hybrid as long as their genetics are far apart enough or will it always destabilise the original F1 fem mother, which is also fine but could take longer to find what you are looking for from the f2 varieties and would you still call them f2 varieties even though they don't have related parents?

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2020

Red October

Active member

• Jul 17, 2020

• #2

Or would you need to find a suitable different female from the same line and turn it hermi? Could you create a stabilised line through choosing suitable females further down the line, I'm assuming yes but wouldn't mind hearing some of your experiences

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2020

CannaZen

Well-known member

• Jul 17, 2020

• #3

your asking if you could do it without a backcross?


from an f1 you stand the chance of recombination, I'm afraid its difficult to understand.


instead of backcrossing you want an f1 by outcrossing an ibl to another ibl to create true f1 instead of fraction (the geno always fractions out imo) if you were to cross that f1 to another separate ibl for polyhybrid f1 f1 x ibl ibl right?


that could mean ibl x ibl f1
x ibl f1, f2
f3 = f1 I think if you were to breed the line together without outcrossing from there.

 

Red October

Active member

• Jul 17, 2020

• #4

Well a backcross from the same F1 fem line but what I'm unsure of is what the best course is to take with an F1 fem line.

For example ace's Thai chi, it's only available as a female line using a female Thai plant and a female Kali China plant, so different parents but both female, resulting in an F1 feminised plant offspring.

Can you use F1 feminised plants for breeding or are they best avoided for breeding and just to be enjoyed for a grow or to keep as clones. I've never crossed anything with a feminised line and just can't find the correct info on what to expect, in reality I don't want to waste my time trying new crosses with something that isn't going to bring "good" results in the end. I've read through the thread of breeding only with females and that's about the closest I've found but doesn't cover this. Neither does DJ shorts articles and I'm just asking for some pointers in the right direction for info, links or whatever I'm happy to do the reading but I'm just not finding what I need to read.

 

CannaZen

Well-known member

• Jul 17, 2020

• #5

heres thai chi's heritage chart

Thai Chi »»» Thailand Sativa Chiang Mai x Kali China F4 F1
Thailand Sativa Chiang Mai »»» Sativa
Kali China F4
»»» {Kali Mist x China Yunnan} x China Yunnan
Kali Mist x China Yunnan
Kali Mist
Mostly Sativa
China Yunnan IBL
China Yunnan »»» Mostly Indica
China Yunnan (specified above)

Click to expand...

the f1 seeds are kali china f4 x thailand sativa chiang mai

 

Last edited: Jul 17, 2020

Red October

Active member

• Jul 17, 2020

• #6

Yeah I think I'm just asking a simple question in a stupid way.

 

troutman

Seed Whore

• Jul 17, 2020

• #7

If you breed 2 plants together that are not related in any way it will be an F1 that you create.

 

Red October

Active member

• Jul 18, 2020

• #8

Thank you Troutman.

 

CannaZen

Well-known member

• Jul 23, 2020

• #9

Okay an f4 back cross f1 x f1 = f2 x f2 = f3 x f2 = f4 f3 f2, I'm not sure my math is right

Edit: I should of checked my math it's not an f1


so is f3 x f2 x f1 not = f5 f4 f3 f2 f1 its f5 f1 f4 f3 f2 is an f5 f4 f3 f2 f1 not possible?

 

Last edited: Jul 24, 2020

M

meizzwang

Member

• Jul 24, 2020

• #10

Not sure I follow most of the responses above (besides troutman's), but simple answer is yes, if you cross an F1 with an IBL that's genetically different from the F1, it's possible to create stable (ie. somewhat uniform) offspring. Did this with tomatoes. However, it really depends on the genetics of the parents: not all F1 x IBL crosses will give you uniform results.