Stupid or useless ingredients

Avenger is a very knowledgeable dude but I believe science says otherwise. It maybe that potassium silicate is not mobile when applied as a foliar but I believe silicic acid is.

The scientist that invented Aptus Fasilitor has a whole line of commercial ag foliar fed silicic acid products.

http://www.rexil-agro.com/foliar.html

Very helpful thanks

BubbaBear said:

Mushroombrew- everything im saying is from personal experience I've used a ton of different silicate and silicic acid products. I completely cut it out of my regimen and saw no difference in my plants. I do foliar feed with it now even though I saw no difference without because like you mentioned science says it makes my cell wall stronger so why not. I still have GH silicate, Advanced nutrients silicate and Mills silicic acid laying around so I try to use them where I can, one thing for sure though im not putting it in my reservoir lol.

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Well it sound like you have tried tons of products! So I get your waste of money point of view.
I run on well water which starts at almost 200. Mostly carbonate. Plants love it. I wonder is my starting water chemistry is responsible for my liking for silica? Because it does work for me?
I think it's odd to have extremely different results?
I must be low on Si starting out?

BubbaBear said:

Thats a stupid and useless post Lathus, this thread is about stupid and useless ingredients not useful one's

Just kidding of course, you shared lots of good information and I get what you mean, many additives have a subtle effect on plants so its easy to question whether they have a positive effect or not

And just to reiterate what I've been trying to say since the beginning of this thread since some people aren't getting it. Im not saying silicate is a completely useless. Im saying putting it in your RESERVOIR is at the least stupid.

Silicic acid products are unstable and degrade quickly in a nutrient reservoir. They can also cause brittle branches when used in heavy doses like the companies tell you to do to reduce stretch which also doesnt work.

Potassium silicate spikes your PH so much its commonly used as PH up so you need extra acid to get your PH stable. It also requires microbes to break it down in order to be taken up by the roots.

I said from the get go that it strengthens cell walls, why not foliar feed silicate so you know its getting where you need it to go and crown feed it to the roots weekly so it doesn't go unstable or spike the PH of your reservoir.

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Yeah, sorry wasn't trying to go off topic but I had some info that I thought was relevant.

While I agree completely that the stabilized silicic acid products are really designed for use as a foliar, and that the stabilized silicic acid products perform better as foliars than regular diluted potassium silicate foliar applications. The research clearly shows that root absorption is by far more effective at increasing plant content of silicon no matter the source of silicon.

Plants treated with Kasil and Silamol through root applications had the highest levels of Si
deposition (Figure 1c and 1d). By contrast, foliar-treated plants accumulated very little Si. In most cases, concentrations were
comparable to that of control plants with only a few spots appearing above the background level

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Effect of root and foliar applications of soluble Si on powdery mildew control and growth of wheat plants

There was no clear evidence collected from these series of pot experiments that proves
absorption of Si through rice leaf surface. Silicon applied via soil is consistently more effective
than foliarly-applied Si in enhancing Si content of rice.

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Chapter 3. Evaluation of absorption and uptake of soil- and foliar-applied silicon fertilizer in
rice


Potassium silicate does not require microbes to break it down into a usable form for plant roots.

Mobile in the xylem only...roots. Foliar is fools gold

mushroombrew said:

Well it sound like you have tried tons of products! So I get your waste of money point of view.
I run on well water which starts at almost 200. Mostly carbonate. Plants love it. I wonder is my starting water chemistry is responsible for my liking for silica? Because it does work for me?
I think it's odd to have extremely different results?
I must be low on Si starting out?

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It sounds like you are using potassium silicate, I've never experienced negative results from potassium silicate only from silicic acid. For me potassium silicate just lacked the results I was looking for to dignify the PH spike to my reservoir, without it I need no PH down so id rather not put extra ppms in my reservoir, that leaves less space for NPKC as I dont like to feed over 1300 ppm

Thanks for the insight Avenger.

For me the lack of absorption of potassium silicate in the root zone is enough for me to keep it out of my reservoir.

Heres a couple pieces of info from ReXil Ag. They are leading the science in silicate and silicic acid for the Ag industry.

Silicon is also helpful for the soil, the micro-organisms and the plants. Specifically (mono) silicic acid is the 'silicon key molecule' being the only bio-available and bio-active molecule for plants, humans and animals. Unfortunately, this silicic acid molecule is very unstable resulting in low concentrations in the soil, often too low for optimal growth of the plant.

The silicon paradox is the contrast between the large quantities of silicon (silicates or silicon dioxide) in the soil and the very low concentrations of mono-silicic acid. So it isn't the quantity of 'silicon in the soil' but the quantity of bio-available silicic acid.


Attempting to overcome low levels of bio-silicon content, silicates ('silicon-salts') are used as silicon fertilizers. While these applications are beneficial, the outcome shows limited results because the transformation into silicic acid is still too low.

Our silicic acid formulas are used mostly as leaf fertilizers. By using leaf application, silicic acid 'escapes' from the many chemical reactions located within the soil and remains bio-active. Silicic acid is then absorbed by the leaf stimulating photosynthesis locally, regulating root growth from the top-down and therefore enhancing the uptake of nutrients.

Shame Potassium Silicate (classified as a synthetic by NOP) can only be used by "organic fanatics" as an "insecticide" or for "plant disease control"...not allowed as a "plant and soil amendment" (aka root feeding). CFR §205.601.

For me the lack of absorption of potassium silicate in the root zone is enough for me to keep it out of my reservoir.

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science says otherwise.

Silicon in Agriculture, From Theory to Practice: Chapter 9.2 Soil Versus Foliar Applications

Heres a couple pieces of info from ReXil Ag. They are leading the science in silicate and silicic acid for the Ag industry.

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lmao, more like leading the marketing and hype of peg400 and hydrochloric acid disguised as silicon fertilizer.

Show me the science where peg400/chloride stabilized silicic acid product foliar application out perform root drenches of diluted hydrous potassium silicate, in regards to increasing the silicon content of the plants.

Nova Crop can easily answer that.

The science on silicate seems to vary greatly depending on who the scientists work for as science often does. I feel the claims of the benefits of potassium silicate are over stated. My plants do better without it in my reservoir. When I use potassium silicate I need phosphoric acid to keep my PH in check, so possibly the phosphoric acid degrades my nutrient solution making less nutrients available to my plants.

In my personal experience my plants do better without it in my reservoir. Theres contradictory science on uptake of potassium silicate in the root zone, a lot of the more recent science out there that says mono silicic acid is the only form of bio available silica plants can absorb so its the type I'm going to continue to use. Im also going to continue to use it only as a foliar like it was originally intended.

Its kinda funny when Aptus Fasilitor first came out I called Aptus and asked them if I could use Fasilitor as a foliar because I figured it would make a very beneficial foliar feed and save you a ton of money and they said no dont use it as a foliar it will burn your plants. Since then its came out that the product was originally developed to be used as a foliar feed and now they have foliar instructions on there website, lol fuckers !

I personally feel potassium silicate is a dated additive with over stated benefits and that theres better more bio available forms of silica available. If it works for you and you truly see its benefits by all means continue using it, I'm just stating my opinion based my personal experience so for me its on my list of stupid ingredients.

So no citations at all. It is easy to prove like I said. KSil vs Aptus sent to Nova and lets see what shows up in the sap. Your "opinion" don't impress me much.

Following. I can't afford snake oils.