Some questions about RAW nutrients???

frostqueen · Apr 29, 2016

I think the Perfect line is probably great, too... but this RAW line provides a LOT more control. I like the ala carte approach as I am a more experienced grower. The RAW line also seems less expensive, although I haven't actually crunched the per-cycle numbers yet.

I think the Perfect line would probably be good for either those newer to growing or those who just want to keep it simple. Hard to say. I do know a few experienced folks here on ICMAG are already trialing the Perfect line, so we'll soon find out.

I wish more folks were testing out this RAW line in both hydro and soil, but it doesn't seem to be very well known yet. This is the same company who came up with that 'Mighty Wash' stuff (which I frankly thought was B.S. until I saw the reviews on Amazon and heard from a few commercial friends who had good results with it). I also found out that Harley was the one who came up with the 'Mother Plant' nutrient line, which I have used for years now on my moms with flawless results. That was developed with/for a different company, though.

As far as the RAW goes, I'm seeing some really fat stems now from the enhanced calcium uptake; I like that! It's also supposed to really help prevent powdery issues.

The proof is in the results, so RAW hasn't won me over quite yet. If it performs as claimed I'm fully on board, but the proof is what shows up on the scale at the end. I need to see resin, flavor, smell, yields and consistency to be won over. If the whole line doesn't provide that I will just use some of the components like silica, kelp, cal/mag and yucca with my existing formulas.

For those wondering wtf RAW is, it's a hybrid chem/organic nutrient system with individually packaged components so growers can control each factor as needed, or custom-tailor their own program for specialty strains. Great for control freaks. http://www.npk-industries.com/nutrients_bio_stimulants.html

frostqueen · Apr 30, 2016

I noticed last night that the RAW plants were a slightly lighter green, especially the newer growth, but look very healthy and have slightly fatter stems. (These are actually WiFi and WiFi #3 plants, not GG#4 as I said earlier.) WiFi can really be a fussy bitch, so this will be great for a comparison test.

The other group in this side by side are getting a proven BioBizz-based formula that I've used in the past. It is very consistent as far as results go so I though it would be a good one to use. Those high-end organics will be tough to beat, but as said earlier, the RAW line is about 1/4 the price, so...

Mikell · May 4, 2016

What's this Biobizz formula? I assume not the feed chart.

frostqueen · May 7, 2016

Mikell said:
What's this Biobizz formula? I assume not the feed chart.

No, it's a BioBizz-based nutrient regimen I came up with a few years ago. VERY consistent results, so good for this test. Want some details? It is an incredible recipe as far as quality and yield go... just expensive. I have perfected this and a Canna version as far as organics go. Both are great, but the BioBizz version yields more.

Great for the snobby home hobbyists, but too pricey for commercial unless your market will pay for the top shelf. This is why I am experimenting with a chem/organic line like RAW. I'd be stunned if RAW did anywhere near as well. Hope so!

IMO that BioHeaven is worth every penny. Full of aminos and other plant extract goodies. I did a side by side leaving it out and it definitely proved its worth. Same with the Top Max. Insane resin and flavor and quality, pays for itself 10 times over. You just have to use enough and not skimp on it.

BioVeg (5 ml/gal in veg and first 4 weeks of flower)
BioBloom (5-20 ml/gal in flower)
BioHeaven (10-15 ml/gal in late veg and flower thru week 6)
Top Max (10-15 ml/gal in mid to late flower)
Roots Organics' HPK (5-20 ml/gal in weeks 3-6 of flower)
Sea Green (1-2 ml/gal, veg and flower)
TM7 (1/4 tsp./gal mid to late flower)
CalMag (every other time)
BioPack innoculant (or AACT if I'm not busy/lazy).

Soil is 1/2 FF Ocean Forest, 1/2 ProMix HP.

PH of soil is around 6, nutes are adjusted to 6 too.

frostqueen · May 7, 2016

The RAW plants are looking fantastic and growing fast. I would say they are just a tad lighter green than the BioBizz plants, but the BioBizz plants are in a slightly different soil mix: 1/2 FF Ocean Forest and 1/2 ProMix HP. More nitrogen available there. I wanted to test the RAW in straight ProMix because I'd love to switch to it. Tired of mixing soil.

RAW stems are fat and stiff and leaves are very erect. These are heading into bloom tomorrow.

Mikell · May 8, 2016

Ah, good to hear it's going well. I had their yucca until I left it out one night and it siezed up (humidity). Very concentrated, I ended up making a liquid mix up to measure from as 1/16tsp dry per 5gal was ridonkulous to try and measure.

God damnit, everyone that uses BB uses some form of compost/prefert. We're switching over half a room at work and it's just straight HP, which from what I gather gives mediocre result. On top of that, the tap is like RO.

Well it'll be interesting to watch at least.. pretty big plants to be feeding those rinky dink npk ratios. Full line, but still. Nags at the mind.

frostqueen · May 8, 2016

Mikell said:
Ah, good to hear it's going well. I had their yucca until I left it out one night and it siezed up (humidity). Very concentrated, I ended up making a liquid mix up to measure from as 1/16tsp dry per 5gal was ridonkulous to try and measure.

God damnit, everyone that uses BB uses some form of compost/prefert. We're switching over half a room at work and it's just straight HP, which from what I gather gives mediocre result. On top of that, the tap is like RO.

Well it'll be interesting to watch at least.. pretty big plants to be feeding those rinky dink npk ratios. Full line, but still. Nags at the mind.

I've started going with weighing out the RAW products rather than using a tsp. The premixed Grow and Bloom have the yucca already in them and clump up so teaspoons don't work well.

Yeah, I think the BB/organics really need that compost and vermicompost to sustain the microbe population. I could be wrong, though. There are a lot of micronutes in the FFOF as well, so I think I'm seeing a benefit there.

But with the RAW, I'm hoping that HP alone will work. I'll do a few RAW with my 50/50 soil mix too next round; I know that the RAW guy pushes the microbe side of things too, which I've always seen as not as necessary with chem-based nutrients... a bit confusing.

Are you talking about the BB NPK numbers? I definitely nail my girls pretty hard with the Roots HPK to boost that ratio. I also fertilize them every time, with a tea or a water-only watering every fourth time. They bulk up pretty well.

Mikell · May 9, 2016

I think FFOF is like their All Mix and the intended use for the line.

Full line re: Grow/Bloom/Topmax/Heaven/that one one but not Roots.

Trichoderma are resilient to higher EC and proliferate under soluble N as I recall. Rootshield is a solo inocculant re: no wasted bling on questionable microbes or AMF.

Kygiacomo!!! · May 9, 2016

frostqueen said:
Yeah, the component products seem to work great as stand alones for sure. Just ordered the silica, yucca, kelp and ominA. I read the recipe book on their site for various things like root growth, veg booster, stress reducer and similar and really want to give those a try.

I've got my side by side tests going now, testing on GG#4 and another strain of mine in straight ProMix HP. They will be in veg for another 10 days or so, but so far look great. I'm doing the 'all in one' veg and bloom and adding P and K and a few other things - following their feed schedule exactly for the trial run.

I might try using all of the individual components as per schedule next run (instead of the 'all in one') if this one goes well, although I'm pretty sure they are identical. I'll have to look at the listed weights; that should confirm it.

One thing in the vids that really caught my attention was the concept of using calcium in conjunction with L-amino acids for increased uptake. I wonder if I've been getting enough calcium, so this side-by-side will tell me.

let me know how that amino does. i almost got that one as well but decided not to since im already useing amino treatment but if the raw works as well then i will get it

Kygiacomo!!! · May 9, 2016

frostqueen said:
I've started going with weighing out the RAW products rather than using a tsp. The premixed Grow and Bloom have the yucca already in them and clump up so teaspoons don't work well.

Yeah, I think the BB/organics really need that compost and vermicompost to sustain the microbe population. I could be wrong, though. There are a lot of micronutes in the FFOF as well, so I think I'm seeing a benefit there.

But with the RAW, I'm hoping that HP alone will work. I'll do a few RAW with my 50/50 soil mix too next round; I know that the RAW guy pushes the microbe side of things too, which I've always seen as not as necessary with chem-based nutrients... a bit confusing.

Are you talking about the BB NPK numbers? I definitely nail my girls pretty hard with the Roots HPK to boost that ratio. I also fertilize them every time, with a tea or a water-only watering every fourth time. They bulk up pretty well.

i like this silica alot. i used it on one my panamas and blue widows to test it out and the ones that i have used it on is alot studier and bigger,with just a healthier look to them. its not scientific by any means since both come from seeds but all i need is to see what im seeing and that is scientific for me lol
i used Dr earth pot of gold mix this year. it was cheaper then the ocean forest and happy frog but i dont like it as much as i do the foxfarms..All my micronutrients will be coming from glacial rock dust,azomite,basalt rock dust,greensand,ag lime,oyster shell flour, gypsum and down to earth's humic acid granulars. i figured between all these that they will have a nice selection of micro nutrients to choose from

frostqueen · May 9, 2016

Kygiacomo!!! said:
let me know how that amino does. i almost got that one as well but decided not to since im already useing amino treatment but if the raw works as well then i will get it

That amino (ominA) smells exactly like BioBizz's BioHeaven. A delicious malty smell. Massively cheaper, though.

I have a really nice Panama x Deep Chunk plant from an Ace seed. It's beautiful; it has hollow stems, which is pretty weird.

The FFOF is great, but it's too heavy for me by itself. When mixed with the ProMix HP everything is perfect. The ProMix HP alone dries out a bit fast; I might try the BX instead of the HP next time.

frostqueen · May 19, 2016

So, another update. The plants getting the RAW nutes look good, but there is a slight trend towards lighter green in the new growth that I'm seeing. It could be a slight iron deficiency, or maybe there's just a bit less nitrogen in general compared to the BioBizz plants. Not a huge deal and they otherwise look very healthy; nice fat stems. Rapid growth can sometimes appear this way, so maybe it's fine.

I don't want to try to correct the lighter green issue as this is a test and that would skew the results. If it gets more serious I will have to do something, though. A major factor in that regard is probably that I'm in straight ProMixHP for the RAW test, so no nutrients in the soil. The BioBizz plants are in 1/2 ProMix and 1/2 FFOF, so they are getting more N and micros.

Just finishing week 2 of bloom. Stretch seems normal.

RoostaPhish · May 19, 2016

You are using both the "all in one" and the cal/mag correct?

frostqueen · May 20, 2016

RoostaPhish said:
You are using both the "all in one" and the cal/mag correct?

Yes. That's what they recommend on the chart. The B vitamins are also separated. The additional P and K added during flowering are separate/additional, too.

I'm wondering what the difference might be if I were to just use the separate component nutrients entirely instead of the 'all-in one' version. There are some minor discrepancies in the charts about total amounts of various things and when they are to be added. Nothing huge, but there are some differences. I'll have to do the math on how much of each component is given and then compare them.

RoostaPhish · May 20, 2016

Some of the components Of The All In One Are Missing If You Use Individuals. The Package Lists Ingredients They Dont Sell Individually like Iron Dpta.

frostqueen · May 21, 2016

RoostaPhish said:
Some of the components Of The All In One Are Missing If You Use Individuals. The Package Lists Ingredients They Dont Sell Individually like Iron Dpta.

Interesting! I hadn't noticed that.

I got Harley's email address so I'm going to fire some really specific questions at him.

audiohi · May 23, 2016

I'm pretty sure they're designed to use as along with a complete nutrient. For example, to steer your crop a certain way, or to boost resistance to stress or pests. Use them sparingly as well.

frostqueen · May 28, 2016

So, a quick update. Everything looks great with the RAW plants; they look very similar to the BioBizz plants, but still are slightly less green in the newer growth. Considering that these are in straight Promix HP and the BioBizz plants are in 1/2 Promix and 1/2 Ocean Forest, I think that might explain the difference. The FFOF has both nitrogen-rich compost and EWC, and also lots of extra micronutes.

On that note, I should have just gone with that half and half mix for everything for an equal comparison. The Promix is great but those plants dry out much faster, and I am now leaning heavily towards bailing on the Promix-only option. Why mess with success.

At any rate, impressive so far. It will be 3 weeks tomorrow, so they will start piling resin soon.

I did the math on what it costs to do the RAW all-in-one formula in flower. This includes everything they list on their feeding schedule, in the specific amounts that they recommend. It comes to $43 per 1000k; with five plants in #15 pots. This is if you buy the all-in-one bloom in bulk, though: 10 pounds at a time. Not a problem for me. If you were to go with the smaller packages the cost will double.

That obviously is just a small fraction of what I spend on my current BioBizz and Canna organic food regimens. It will be interesting to see the quality and weight differences with RAW's chem/organic approach.

RoostaPhish · May 29, 2016

About the lighter green growth. Something that I was thinking about is that most if not all the nitrogen in the all in one is coming from the plant protein hydrolysate (omina). The other coming from the calcium nitrate in the cal/mag. However there isn't any ammonium nitrate in the mix. I would recommend adding a very small amount of the RAW Nitrogen supplement. This isn't in the all in one. And as I mentioned before in plain media the Raw Nitrogen was a much better supplement for nitrogen versus the Omina. The best solution would be to have both. Try it if you have the ability and I believe you will get the deeper green color you are looking for.

audiohi · May 30, 2016

You can foliar feed ammoniacal nitrogen as well for a quick fix.

Some questions about RAW nutrients???

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